|
Post by jjose712 on Oct 26, 2013 12:27:17 GMT -5
No way. Sorry, but the everybody can be a rapist is pure bullshit. Everybody can be a killer under very specific circunstances, but a rapist? no way. And we have examples of that in war conflicts when some soldiers stop acting like humans and rapes are rampant, there are always soldiers that don't fall into that pattern. We are not talking about shot someone, or bash someone, that's impulsive, but rape is a very different thing, and there's no way everybody is a potential rapist. Rapist have a very specific pathology. And i insist, i still think a straight raping a gay man is very very weird, no matter how they say, specially not for a teenager. And no, Stendan detractors don't try to make them fit into their ideal, Stendan detractors watch that relationship exactly for what it is, a totally destructive and abusive relationship with tons of physical and mental abuse. I don't care if they want to sell that as an epic love story, it was insane and that was very far from being a love storyreading your posts I'm reminded of when the news crews interview a neighbor or relative of some person that committed some atrocity and their reaction is all 'I never would have known. They seemed so nice!' I mean what we need to remember is HO are showing us very little of what goes on in Finn's head, if anything. Again, it's like how a small contingent of HO's fanbase 'OMG, don't get!' Craig's gayness, because for so many years he had been straight, as if they had access to his every-waking-genuine thought... LOL again, it is very human of you to try and justify this very, very bad and unjustifiable thing you are about to 'witness' (JP's rape) but sometimes bad stuff happens and there is no way of explaining it. You are left utterly lost as to why a fellow human would do something so inhumane. bold: look, I'm not a fan of Ste/Brendan or defending it or anything, but whether or not Ste/Brendan was a genuine love story is whatever. But was it an epic love for Ste/Brendan? Yeah, it was, to them. That was THEIR truth, as messed up as it may be to viewers. No, no and no. The bad things happens excusation is quite bad. Yes, bad things happen without a proper explanation, but we are talking about a rape not an accident. One straight teenager doesn't wake up one day and decide to rape his teacher. We know Finn has anger issues, but yes, i need an explanation to justify why instead of the multiple things he can do to punish John Paul, he decides to rape him. Because rape is a very specific act of violence, and one thing is not expecting someone to be a rapist, and other very different it's not being a justification (medical, psycological,...) to that behaviour And no again, Stendan was not an epic love story, in that case, it was an epic abusive story, maybe i'm old fashioned but in my world love has nothing to do with beat your partner regularly
|
|
|
Post by jjose712 on Oct 26, 2013 7:48:16 GMT -5
Well, i wouldn't be so sure. Brendan was not created to have an epic love story with Ste, that was changed when they found that Brendan was a very popular character, and that people really like his chemistry with Ste (their chemistry was undeniable). But the worst part is the way they reacted to the changes. They could easily stop the physical abuse and make their relationship about control. It will be abusive anyway, but that would Brendan a lot easier to redeem, specially because they could soft that part of their relationship once he came out of the closet. That kind of relationship would be way more interesting than what they showed, it would be more subtle and keep the power dynamics that people seemed to love in Stendan without making their unbalanced relationship unable to watch. Instead of that they made Brendan a lot more extreem and Ste way more pathetic. In fact they damage a lot Ste as character. Gay characters on HO seem to fall always for the same type of guy, so probably Ste next boyfriend will be an alpha dominant type too, hopefully it will be a leader and protector instead of a control freak and an abuser.
So my hopes are Finn is not a charismatic character like Brendan, because if he gets the sympathies of viewers, the intentions of the writers could change in a minute Hopefully it's not an american soap, because they are full of rapist converted in male romantic main characters
|
|
|
Post by jjose712 on Oct 26, 2013 7:26:44 GMT -5
Well, Sonny has way better taske in jackets than in t shirts
|
|
|
Post by jjose712 on Oct 26, 2013 5:11:10 GMT -5
maybe, the outcome of the rape and JP's transformation won't be what most think, and JP won't be 'broken down' into this weepy, victimized mess? Instead it will harden him and his heart and he'll close himself off to love/everyone (because that's something that is VERY JP, how open he is - people always equate it to desperation, but I've always seen it as him being a very open and loving individual)? I mean the automatic assumption would be JP's reaction will be that of your typical, soapy rape victim (scared and crying and traumatized, etc) But men don't usually react that way to sexual assault. i dunno. I can totally see the story coming to a head w/ JP killing Finn... Maybe, Ste's present when this happens and they hide the body together further cementing their 'wacky' friendship? The problem is that there are generally two types of rapist, the young brat that is unable to undertand a no (that type can be "cured" if it get the proper treatment) and the sexual predator. In one case it's more a sex situation that gets out of control and in the other case there are several different cases, like the opportunist or the stalker, and they are generally serial rapist with no solution in most cases. Here we are with a totally different case. Most cases of male rape or abuse are in closed enviroments, like jail or military, and in that cases it has a lot to do with power and humiliation. The other cases of male rape i know, the aggresor is gay, generally repressed. I suppose they do their research (or at least i hope they did), but frankly, the whole situation doesn't seem realistic at all. anyone can be a rapist, and anyone can be victimized. The entire point of stories like this are to give another perspective, that you otherwise would not have known. Everything you've listed is a certain perspective. It's like Brendan and Ste - most of the people that don't get them are too busy trying to make them fit their own ideal to get them. No way. Sorry, but the everybody can be a rapist is pure bullshit. Everybody can be a killer under very specific circunstances, but a rapist? no way. And we have examples of that in war conflicts when some soldiers stop acting like humans and rapes are rampant, there are always soldiers that don't fall into that pattern. We are not talking about shot someone, or bash someone, that's impulsive, but rape is a very different thing, and there's no way everybody is a potential rapist. Rapist have a very specific pathology. And i insist, i still think a straight raping a gay man is very very weird, no matter how they say, specially not for a teenager. And no, Stendan detractors don't try to make them fit into their ideal, Stendan detractors watch that relationship exactly for what it is, a totally destructive and abusive relationship with tons of physical and mental abuse. I don't care if they want to sell that as an epic love story, it was insane and that was very far from being a love story
|
|
|
Post by jjose712 on Oct 26, 2013 4:55:08 GMT -5
You are not the only one, or course, but in my opinion they will lose more viewers if they don't do something with them
|
|
|
Post by jjose712 on Oct 25, 2013 16:50:40 GMT -5
But that's a big big problem, because if they are not like every other supercouple, that means they will end in the background for sure. Soaps are not like elaborated prime time dramas, so the storylines usually revolve around romance, blackmail, kidnapping and cheating. Being a gay couple limits a lot the number on character who can interfere in their lives, and that's a big problem, because the obstacle never is a regular player integrated on the show (wich sends the clear message that he is not a real threat). On soaps, gays break the promiscuos stereotypes, and usually are chate and pure, wich makes very difficult to have a steamy storyline. In Will and Sonny case they are incredibly cute, but in a puppy way. It's curious that with two gorgeous actors the fanfiction they inspire is totally vanilla. And that cute qualities are very good, but in the long run you need to spice up the relationship, because generally their problems are totally self inflicted. Will had a lot of insecurities but they were not based on reality.
Luke and Noah fans had the same reaction, every guy who looked like an obstacle had a very bad reaction from the fans, and in the long run that was a big problem because it ended with them in the background. Days is doing a better job than ATWT integrating their gay charcters in the storylines, but in my opinion the characters need some layers that make them more interesting
|
|
|
Post by jjose712 on Oct 25, 2013 16:41:09 GMT -5
The problem is that there are generally two types of rapist, the young brat that is unable to undertand a no (that type can be "cured" if it get the proper treatment) and the sexual predator. In one case it's more a sex situation that gets out of control and in the other case there are several different cases, like the opportunist or the stalker, and they are generally serial rapist with no solution in most cases.
Here we are with a totally different case. Most cases of male rape or abuse are in closed enviroments, like jail or military, and in that cases it has a lot to do with power and humiliation. The other cases of male rape i know, the aggresor is gay, generally repressed. I suppose they do their research (or at least i hope they did), but frankly, the whole situation doesn't seem realistic at all.
|
|
|
Post by jjose712 on Oct 25, 2013 16:32:39 GMT -5
The father and son reunion must be weird weird weird, probably the first father and son reunion ever that both were almost having sex with each other
|
|
|
Post by jjose712 on Oct 25, 2013 16:28:32 GMT -5
Well, i think the straight rapist, gay victim was not done before for a reason.
I agree that the fact that Finn is not physically intimidating is not a problem because there are many ways to subdue a victim. Of course it would be a problem if they don't explain that, because i am frankly tired of gays being totally unable to defend themselves on soaps, but with HO tendency to violence, i'm pretty sure it won't be the case (in my opinion they must moderate the violence of their storylines, something like a kidnap than in other soaps is usually camp fun with a little thrill, in HO usually ends being a dark dark dark storyline).
And i really hope Finn is not that popular as character, because if he is popular or became popular this could end, very very bad. There's two ways to deal with the character after the rape, one is introspection, because frankly raping someone is not exactly something to take lightly, and there must be a reason why he transfor his anger in sexual aggression, and the second option is making him a psycho. Hollyoaks is to psychos like Sunnydale to vampires.
Frankly i don't think i will be in the mood to another redemption storyline. And i don't know how this is going to affect JP in the long run, because a lier boyfriend, being bullied and then raped, it's a little too much for someone who dealt with a roller coaster coming out, the murdered of one boyfriend and being kidnapped by a half brother. Frankly, all types of erratic behaviour and dysfunctional relationships will be more than justified after that.
The good thing is James Sutton will get something interesting to work with (if Danny Miller received a lot of awards for crying a lot, James can do the same for sure), but i have to say that i miss JP's funny side. He used to be a very funny character
|
|
|
Post by jjose712 on Oct 25, 2013 14:38:02 GMT -5
If it's acting, it's really good acting
|
|
|
Post by jjose712 on Oct 25, 2013 13:26:43 GMT -5
Well, the storyline received some backlash, and that type of comments are not surprising because HO was a show that glamourized domestic abuse between two males (i have serious doubts they would do the same if it way with an heterosexual couple).
And of course, we have even worse scenarios like JP having feeling for Finn (i doubt they'll go that far) or Finn for JP. The second part wouldn't be a surprise because the straight guy rapes a gay one is very very odd
I still think that an angry teen doesn't rape his teacher, bashing him was a normal (normal is not exactly the world to talk about violence) reaction when he feels threatened, but i still find unbelievable raping him (i would like to know statistics of male rape, and how many times the aggresor is a straight one, and with straight one i'm not talking about a closet case).
The story on paper sounds really really bad and difficult to believe (maybe the writers surprise us in a positive way). And i thinnk they make a big mistake spoiling this storyline. They could tell the press that there was a very shocking storyline for JP in new year, but telling us almost everything takes away all the shock value, specially if they are not showing anything at all (i suppose they refer to the sex part and not the proper attack).
And like other type of storyline, like gay couples having a baby, the problems are way beyond of the proper storyline. In fact the main problems will be after the rape, because how they write that part has the potential to destroy a beloved character. I wouldn't be surprised if in a couple of months forums are full of Finn/JP fans claiming that their love is epic
|
|
|
Post by jjose712 on Oct 25, 2013 8:15:58 GMT -5
Well, hopefully the next purge will be sending them to a university outside HO and not being the victims of another masacre
|
|
|
Post by jjose712 on Oct 25, 2013 2:46:41 GMT -5
The more i think about it the less sense it has. Rape another male is something that a sadist could do as humiliation, but i can't evision that in a teenager (who is manipulated, so he is not exactly a dominant personality). And of course the man who suffers the rape is usually a straight one, and there's a reason for that, a straight man is a lot less likely to denounce that an openly gay one. A teen who wants revenge on his teacher bash him, not rape him. The fact of the rapist being all but intimidating can be solved, druggging JP, or using a weapon, or hitting him in the head in a surprise attack. But the worse part would be the aftermath. I can see the writers making JP feeling guilty or not denouncing the guy, and they probably will make people feel sympathetic for Finn, and frankly i had enough of that with Brendan. Doing social issues is ok, in fact is good for a soap, but given how HO deal with the domestic abuse, i can't be optimist about this i think the difficulty you are having coming to grips with this SL are some of the same one that most viewers/people that have very little knowledge of men and gay men will have. And that's part of the reason for this story. -gay men can be/are raped (by men) -young straight men can rape older gay man -smaller guys can rape bigger guys -etc, etc. my biggest fear is that the SL will backfire and further marginalize homosexual peeps in the eyes viewers, and the majority of HO fans will have a cavalier sort of 'um... he likes being screwing by guys, tho, so what's the big deal?' sort of attitude. And, to be honest, it wouldn't surprise me if that happens, at all. So sad. No, that's not my concerns. A smaller man can rape or kill a stronger one, but it's not easy. I have some problems when gay characters are victims because shows had a tendency to show them as totally helpless, and frankly, you don't lose your strenght when you come out. Rape someone is not easy, some victims get blocked but a lot of them fight, and subdue a woman is not that easy. For a man subdue other man is a lot more difficult, if the victim is not drugged, unconcious, tied or under weapon threat it would be impossible for someone like Finn rape someone like JP, and then not showing the scene (i don't know if they refer to the proper rape or the whole scene, because if they don't show the set up, the impact will be minimum) could be a problem too. My second problem is that straight teenage don't rape people they are anger to. The everyone can be a rapist is bullshit. Everyone can hit other person, but rape other person? no way. Rape can be about power and dominion, but the truth is male raping is a lot less common that female raping, and the agresor being straight is very very rare if you not count prison rapes, and generally the victims are straight too, because that's add humiliation and make less probably the denounce. Difficult divas fear of this becoming another twisted love story are real, because i find unbelievable Finn raping JP just for the sake of showing him a lesson. It requires a lot of rage the do something like that, and it would be a lot easier to explain with Finn's inner hate, because the normal reaction after being threatened to call the police, is bash him, not rape him. An apart of the whole plot point being difficult to believe, what i fear is what is going to happen next, because i wouldn't be surprised if JP just don't act, writers present him as a helpless victim unabel to react, and make people feel sympathetic for Finn because poor guy had a very bad life and all that shit. The bullying storyline was bad enough, but this could end being unwatchable. Frankly if they wanted to do a rape storyline, it would be easy and more believable if one of JP's boyfriends end raping him, you can easily write a situation when that's possible and believable, but this, frankly seems very hard to swallow
|
|
|
Post by jjose712 on Oct 24, 2013 5:09:17 GMT -5
The more i think about it the less sense it has. Rape another male is something that a sadist could do as humiliation, but i can't evision that in a teenager (who is manipulated, so he is not exactly a dominant personality). And of course the man who suffers the rape is usually a straight one, and there's a reason for that, a straight man is a lot less likely to denounce that an openly gay one. A teen who wants revenge on his teacher bash him, not rape him. The fact of the rapist being all but intimidating can be solved, druggging JP, or using a weapon, or hitting him in the head in a surprise attack.
But the worse part would be the aftermath. I can see the writers making JP feeling guilty or not denouncing the guy, and they probably will make people feel sympathetic for Finn, and frankly i had enough of that with Brendan.
Doing social issues is ok, in fact is good for a soap, but given how HO deal with the domestic abuse, i can't be optimist about this
|
|
|
Post by jjose712 on Oct 24, 2013 3:20:05 GMT -5
Sorry but i don't buy this. Yes, i know rape is not about sex, it's about domination. But straights only rape other guys in prison. And the scene will be off screen, so the impact will be minimum (i agree that's a difficult scene, but not showing anything it's absurd). And frankly, rape another male is not an easy thing, so they better do a good job explaining how a teen is able to rape John Paul.
I don't know, James deserve a storyline to show his skills, but this could be a disaster.
My favourite HO storyline was McDean, that storyline had it's flaws, and had a lot of abusive connotations, but it was impossible not be hooked, because combined tons of drama with a lot of funny scenes. Lately, nothing is funny in HO
|
|
|
Post by jjose712 on Oct 23, 2013 7:16:36 GMT -5
Well, this is revenge, so yes, it probably it will be one playing the other (or both at the same time)
|
|
|
Post by jjose712 on Oct 22, 2013 13:28:07 GMT -5
I still think it's too soon (and Lucas is too inmature)
|
|
|
Post by jjose712 on Oct 22, 2013 6:02:09 GMT -5
No, you are not alone, in fact i dislike love triangles a lot, but not in this case. I'm sorry to say that, but i find Wilson right now incredibly boring, i just want a storyline that makes them a little less vanilla.
Of course, generally a love triangle with a gay couple ends being a dissapointment, so maybe it's better if there's no third man at all. Anyway they need to move on in their relationship, and they must be front and center of their own storyline, because right now they seem to move sideways
|
|
|
Post by jjose712 on Oct 21, 2013 7:48:00 GMT -5
I don't agree. I'm not for love triangles, but they need to spice Wilson relationship, because lately, absolutely nothing is about their relationship. It's good to have other related storylines, but they need to shake their relationship a bit.
And frankly, in terms of gay couples, the love triangle is something new. Yes, a lot of shows tried the supposed love triangle, but in the end it never was more than a simple obstacle (nothing more than a Brian). If they go there, i hope they'll do a better job this time, making the third one sympathetic it would be an advance, an introduce him in a different storyline before make him jump into Wilson would be good too
|
|
|
Post by jjose712 on Oct 21, 2013 7:00:03 GMT -5
Well, they promised a love triangle, so better a third man than a woman.
Usually soaps miserably fail at love triangles with gay couples, because there's always the official couple, and the third wheel is nothing more than a temporal obstacle. It would be good if before throwing a new guy into their relationship, establish the guy in the show, make him a viable character with or whithout being in wilson orbit, and then, there's a possibility of a love triangle being an interesting storyline
|
|
|
Post by jjose712 on Oct 19, 2013 17:05:33 GMT -5
I listened live to an episode of the KeeBro show where Keiron said that he couldn't understand how anyone would want him with Bruiser Brady. The truth is out there. --- #BIGhug Diva That opinion was years ago and thought of as something that Kieron "had to say", in order to "sell Stug", but it's NEVER, EVER thought that when Kieron had to promote the Stendan reunion, that he was "selling Stendan" as well. I really doubt Kieron has such good opinion about Stendan. He liked to work with Emmet, and the storyline was front and center of the show wich is good for him as actor (even when he was more a sidekick than a main character in his own storyline), but i doubt, as a gay man, he liked the message the show gave with that storyline, of course, actors usually take that kind of opinions to themselves (wich is a smart decision)
|
|
|
Post by jjose712 on Oct 19, 2013 17:00:23 GMT -5
Oh no, i think he has all the right to talk about his projects and he was right searching for bigger things, but that condescending tone is not exactly good because bigger towers have fallen, and you never know what the future can bring, so better keep all your doors open. Specially when the show did a lot to promote him. And yes, i know, he was a fan favourite, but it would be so easy to get rid of his character no matter what fans wanted.
I think a lot of ex soap actors have a lot to learn from Julianne More. She is a fantastic actress and yes, she totally trancended her soap begginings (in fact i think a lot of people just don't know that she started on ATWT), but she had no problem to come back for a little stint when ATWT was canceled. A little gratitude never killed anybody
|
|
|
Post by jjose712 on Oct 19, 2013 14:06:56 GMT -5
If i were him, i will keep my mouth shut. He is very talented, but he won't be the first very talented actor who came back to the soap the make him famous after leaving the show for greener pastures. Acting is a business where luck and good timming is everything, and burning bridges is never a good idea
|
|
|
Post by jjose712 on Oct 18, 2013 6:59:33 GMT -5
I know he can't do now, but i would really like to know Keiron's real opinion on Stendan. I'm pretty sure a lot of fans won't like that, because i highly doubt he as gay man think that the portrayal of an abussive relationship and sell that as an epic love story is that wonderful (of course we never knew, because actors never talk about their storylines in a negative light).
In my opinion the show did a great mistake letting a fandom dictate a storyline (Stendan was supposed to be something very very different that it was), and frankly, it's time to forget that fandom for good. Brendan is not in the show, that relationship was insane (and a pretty bad storyline in terms of writing, fortunately not in terms of acting). If people get pissed because Ste don't mention Brendan every five minutes, well, get a life and stop being annoying.
And of course Ste should chose Doug over Brendan, his life would be so much better. Unfortunately Ste is not known for being a wise guy.
And i don't get the comparasions with McDean storyline. Some fans claimed that Craig was JPsexual or some stupid think like that. In my opinion that's a lot more unbelievable than discover that you are gay at 20's. Soaps generally do a really bad job with coming out storylines. There are exceptions, Luke Snyder show hints of being gay way before his proper coming out. But the "straight" character discovering he is gay is overdone, and generally really bad done
|
|
|
Post by jjose712 on Oct 17, 2013 13:15:51 GMT -5
JP is not exactly strong to resist temptation if he feels something for the guy, even when he knows is not good for him
I remember a part when he was arguing with Craig and he saying that he will never be with Craig again, and Craig said that JP will be back everytime he wanted (wich was totally true). JP has two problems, he falls in love really soon, and once he is in love he is quite blind to what happens around him
|
|