General Discussion - The Young & The Restless

[Bonobochick]

Heather finds out about Adam & Rafe.





pt 2: Can't access due to "copyright restrictions in my country"

pt 3: Can't access due to "copyright restrictions in my country"


pt 4:

[Bonobochick]

[davedoty]

Overdue response on my part, but I disagree with KSJ about Adam/Rafe, at least the part about how a gay story needs to tie in to gay marriage or DADT. I want to get away from the idea that gay stories need to be PSAs for topical gay issues. Popular straight storylines like Todd & Tea or the Y&R Mary Jane craziness aren't built around topical issues. I for one am glad we don't have to sit through a lecture on how bad DADT is disguised as a storyline. (I also don't get the obsession over making Chance gay, aside from the fact that the actor is hot, but that's another issue.)

Would his solution for making Neil more interesting revolve around some sort of "Obama's election impacts race relations" storyline? Maybe having Neil hassled by the cops for entering his own home? Because I don't think I'd care to see either of those.

[missunderstood]

Aug 11, 2009 0:18:21 GMT -5 davedoty said:

I for one am glad we don't have to sit through a lecture on how bad DADT is disguised as a storyline. (I also don't get the obsession over making Chance gay, aside from the fact that the actor is hot, but that's another issue.)

I think the "hoping" that Chance is gay, stems from the fact he is more in Rafe's age range, and that he has more airtime and a longer contract than Thom Bierdz does.

Right now I'm thinking Rafe and Phillip have a lot in common. They are both on very little, and neither has a good story or much to do when they are on.

[Bonobochick]

Update From Y&R's Thom Bierdz: www.welovesoaps.net/2009/08/update-from-y-thom-bierdz.html

------

[HQ75]

I like Thom today seeing him open and laughing (still with a heavy tinge of sadness). Very good scene with the three of them at dinner.

I'm not feeling Chance and Chloe. I want to but It just doesn't interest me.

I hope they give Philip more to do than just walking around talking to the Chancellors, Chance, Cane and Nina.

If he's not going back to Australia, he need to do SOMETHING in Genoa city.

Poor Rafe. I really do hope they get him back on the front burner soon once all this Adam stuff is over.

Does anyone know if Victor ever dropped the charged against Estella or apologize. Did it happen on screen?

[tihkon2]

Latest Rafe stuff thanks to Bombayhighway.





Call me crazy, but it looks to me like someone's gonna be accusing Rafe of gaslighting Ashley real soon.
They're foreshadowing it all over the place in today's second clip.

re: Estella...Ashley at least, is still certain Estella is the guilty party along with Mary Jane.

[Bonobochick]

[davedoty]

I agree about Noah's performance. I was equally tickled when he freaked out about Nick and Sharon getting back together. His attempt at emancipation seems more understandable now, eh? I like Sharon, so I don't want her gone, but she's definitely do for some comeuppance.

Maybe we'll finally get the Rafe/Adam storyline we wanted all along now?

Mary Jane on the run is losing its lustre for me. I liked her better doing crazy things to people, and when she's on the run and staying on the downlow, she can't provide. I don't necessarily want her gone, but I definitely want the story to move into its next phase.

How does Victor possibly expect to be able to catch Mary Jane and not be exposed? Is he actually evil enough to have her killed?

Does Adam actually still have a plan at this point, or is he just ad-libbing his evil shenanigans?

Well, Deacon would have one advantage over JT for Victoria - he'd never balk at anything her father told him to do, no matter how criminal or vile.

[HQ75]

Final 81
Quote:
"At this point, we are not doing a gay story, and we never actually were doing a gay story," says co-head writer Scott Hamner. "What we were playing with Rafe was the lengths to which Adam will go to accomplish his goals. And what we were really seeing was that he would stop at nothing. And, at this point, I don't see a future for Rafe and Adam." daytimeroyaltyonline.com/topic/8178393/1/ [/Unquote]

I don't see why some folks are so focused on Adam and Rafe as a "couple". I never considered that to be a "gay love storyline" because only one of the characters was gay and there was no romance or falling in love or relationship really because it was all about Adam (not really about Rafe at all).

Rafe was used and got hurt but to me it just sets him up to find a real lover later on but now he has little bit of baggage (and possible some left over need to get revenge should the truth about Adam come out)

I hope this doesn't mean that there can't be future love stories for Rafe or Philip III of there own? I don't see why either one of those characters couldn't have a storyline in which they were the center of the plot as time goes on (it's not like Y&R is being canceled).

They shouldn't have to fall in love with each other just because they are the two gays in the village but it would certainly be a waste to have to gay characters on the show and NEVER allow them to have 3 dimensional lives that don't involve "coming out" or "getting bashed".

I think people just got way to excited about Adam and Rafe together (because they are attractive men) even though we all knew that Adam isn't gay or bisexual and had no feelings or desire for Rafe.

I know many others feel differently about this but I certainly hope to see more of Rafe and Philip III (the only reasons I would ever watch Y&R. It would be beyond disingenuous at this stage for Y&R to just drop their gay characters after all that build up and carrying on.

[missunderstood]

Aug 19, 2009 23:06:12 GMT -5 HQ75 said:

I know many others feel differently about this but I certainly hope to see more of Rafe and Philip III (the only reasons I would ever watch Y&R. It would be beyond disingenuous at this stage for Y&R to just drop their gay characters after all that build up and carrying on.

ITA.

I started watching Y&R again when I heard about Rafe, and was very excited about Phillip 3 returning.

My personal feelings are that both of these stories left much to be desired, and I'm not digging the rest of the show to watch much when Rafe/Phillip aren't on.

It seems that the writers sent the actors out to the gay press to get some publicity for the show, and that was that

If I see some spoilers for Phillip or Rafe I'll watch, but with Thom leaving later this year (he has a 6 month contract), and Yani not on contract, I'm afraid I'm expecting the worst

[davedoty]

Disingenuous suggests that they are insincere or dishonest. I think changing their minds about doing storylines that aren't working aren't either of those things.

A 6-month contract can be extended, and everything he's said suggests that it will be extended if it works. At this point, it's not working, and I wouldn't blame them for not extending it, but you say "with Thom leaving later this year" as if it were a done deal. Do you have any proof of that, or are you assuming that a 6 month contract is a guarantee that he'll never work more than that?

[missunderstood]

Aug 20, 2009 19:14:44 GMT -5 davedoty said:

A 6-month contract can be extended, and everything he's said suggests that it will be extended if it works. At this point, it's not working, and I wouldn't blame them for not extending it

What you posted above is why I'm saying it. And let's face it two or three appearances a month, ain't gonna cut it. The same goes for Yani.

They tape 3 or 4 weeks ahead, and they still have a few months to fix this.

Let's see if they do

[Bonobochick]

TWOP has been discussing the hype of having a gay storyline and how TPTB originally sold it to [non-]viewers: forums.televisionwithoutpity.com/index.php?s=&showtopic=394850&view=findpost&p=12082936

[davedoty]

I'm now going to predict a viewing cycle for Y&R, based on what I've seen and heard people describe: lots of highs and lows. I've always said the glacial pace was one of the top problems for me, and as I lose interest in the MJ storyline that once had me riveted, I now predict that most storylines will go:

1) Initial interest with interesting setups
2) Waning interest as it develops slowly,
3) Little to no interest when the story shifts into neutral for a long, dull middle section;
4) renewed interest when it finally picks back up for a conclusion.

Long-time viewers: yes or no?

[harmonium]

It's funny they did a 360-degree turn on Phillip 3's backstory and in the end, they did a lousy job in developing him as a proper character for now. He's basically like a drifter in the show. Walking around here and there, with no proper storyline. If they decided not to give Phillip 3 a love storyline, but at least have the decency to explore his relationship with Chance and Nina. They are doing quite a pretty bad job at it.

[missunderstood]

Ok, I have to admit, Thom's acting has not been the best. But the writing for Phillip just SUCKS!

From the stuff I'm reading on the other soap boards, and After Elton, I think we should be VERY worried about the future of Rafe. And Phillip wandering from scene to scene with no real purpose, is just AWFUL.

I know that many on here have moved on to Kish, and so they don't care. But I'm about ready to write some letters and at least let my anger and disappointment in this, be seen and heard!

[Bonobochick]

Y & R has been having writing issues for a while. 6 months ago, I couldn't wait to watch an episode and nowadays, I can barely get through one. It is a problem across the board.

TB's acting isn't good but the writing for that 'Philip Returns' storyline was even worse. P3 was completely unsympathetic to a large part of the audience (I checked a number of boards and how his explaination for disappearing went down was not well-received) and I think at some point TPTB realized that the story was a dog the way it was playing out. I blame them more than TB's acting though neither helped the other.

As for Rafe, if he leaves, I can't say I will miss him. He's still a non-entity IMO. I think there is zero investment from TPTB with that character.

[HQ75]

I actually really like the characters of Rafe and Philip (not because they are gay but because I can see enough of them to know that with good writing, they could really add something to the playing field)

I loved the scenes with Chance and Philip and Nina at dinner and I'd be happy to see them explore Philip's relationship with Chance and Nina. Unlike some others, I don't think Philips's behavior is unforgivable any more so than some of the things Victor or Kay or Jill have done.

I think it would be realistic if SOME people (like Kay or Billy) never forgave Philips but I can see why Jill and Nina would and as for Chance, I'm sure he's seen enough horrors and insanity having been to war that he's able to keep things in perspective and could actually find a way to be grateful that Philip is alive (even if he doesn't entirely forgive Philips actions right now).

I really think it will all come down to whether or not Y&R are invested in having gay people as part of the fabric of Genoa City.

I don't think either Rafe or Philip 3 need to be immediately involved in a love story in order to be relevant or interesting and having two gay character does bring up story opportunities and challenges that are different and I'd really hate to see Y&R waste the opportunity.

Rafe is already pretty heavily involved legally with Sharon and others and they could easily bump up his screentime.

Philip has a built in foundation and if they did nothing but explore his relationship to Chance (with some depth and feeling) and Nina's process of reconciling her feelings about Phil 3 and the 3 of them forging some kind of family, I would find that interesting to watch.

I have a hard time watching Philip and Jill because I just can't visually accept Jill as his mother. They look like they are literally the same age. It's hard for me to suspend disbelief even though I know the actress who plays Jill is 10 years older than the actor who play Phil3.

Maybe with more interaction between them where they ACT like mother and son, I could be sold.

I don't really watch the other character storylines (sometimes Adam cuz I love Adam) but otherwise I'm not invested in the rest of the characters.

[Bonobochick]

VOTE: Best Same Sex Soap of 2009... www.welovesoaps.net/2009/08/vote-best-same-sex-soap-of-2009.html

[devillies]

i have given up on y&r, atleast for a while. There isnt anything interesting going on, and the gay characters barely ever show up

[Bonobochick]

While I have been lax on posting clips, they're still going up on YT here: www.youtube.com/user/bombayhighway


Neither Rafe nor Philip has really been on recently. Personally, I am finding the show really hard to watch save for *gasp* Cane/Lily. The excitement is not there for me and I am on the verge of removing it from my DVR.

[davedoty]

I also like Cane/Lily. There are still several storylines I like, although the slow pace is once again getting to me.

I'm actually quite a bit behind on this one too, just not quite as far as I am on ATWT.

This weekend I will probably need to finally take the last step of giving one up and removing it from the DVR. I'll play it by ear.

[missunderstood]

Nelson Branco interviewed Maria Arena Bell (who is the head writer for Y&R) on the red carpet before the daytime Emmys on Sunday.

She basically said that Adam/Rafe is not a gay story, and was NEVER meant to be.

She said that Phillip is the gay story, and that she loves Thom, she's proud of him, and them for telling this story.

When Branco said it was a dud, she replied they are doing the best that they can, and it's realistic because Thom went through a lot of it.

She mentioned NOTHING about Rafe.

I've given up on getting any engageing gay storylines for this show. It seems to me they are going to throw Biredz a bone until his contract expires, and have Rafe on every once and while defending clients

If you want something more interesting, looks like you will have to watch OLTL.

[HQ75]

I'm willing to wait it out and see what happens.
I never thought that Adam and Rafe were meant to be seen as a couple or a gay storyline just because Rafe happens to be gay. That story was all about how manipulative Adam can be and what he's willing to do to keep his secrets. I know some folks thought they looked sexy together (maybe yes) but it was clearly not meant to be "about" Rafe's life or anything.

I HOPE there is more to come with Rafe and Philip3. I'll continue to check in and see what happens.
I know that Thom B was adamant that he wants to tell a realistic experience of a gay man and both Yani and Thom have said that they hope their characters will get to have a love story down the line so we'll just have to see what happens.

I think part of the problem is that the very second a show introduces a gay character (whether that character is a minor or lead character) the gay press jumps all over it wanting the character to be the big thing and wanting there to be a love story (because we don't get enough love stories between gay characters and we all want to see more well-written stories of this type) but it doesn't really allow for characters to develop over time.

Rafe is a minor character now but that doesn't mean he can't grow to be a larger character on the show as his role is developed.

Unless they kill them off, Y&R still has two openly gay characters and neither is a psycho or a manwhore or any of the other things folks worry about with gay characters. Both Rafe and Philip have the potential to play big roles in the upcoming storylines so let's hope Y&R writers make the most of them