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Post by Bonobochick on Nov 14, 2008 13:56:20 GMT -5
Please use this thread to talk about ratings, writers, directors and all the behind the scenes stuff that goes into making each episode.
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Post by lolaruns on Nov 14, 2008 15:21:14 GMT -5
Thank you so much.
My first question... can somebody tell me again which was Chroust's last episode? And which one was Schlesselmann's first as a producer?
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kes
Full Member
Without community, there is no liberation. Audre Lorde
Posts: 1,583
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Post by kes on Nov 14, 2008 15:23:08 GMT -5
Hi Bonobochick. Thank you for the work you do moderating. It can't be easy. Thanks for establishing this thread, too. I tend to go on and on about this subject. Anyway, I'll try to contribute, but I'm looking forward to listening.
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Post by lolaruns on Nov 14, 2008 15:28:09 GMT -5
Here are the rating post I made beginning of the week in the main thread: Uncommented, here are the ratings for the last bunch of episodes: Some notes: - As you can see between Friday and Monday, the viewership went up a bit, but the percentage dropped - The ratings have been down and going for a while but Friday and Monday really were the poorest numbers together with Thursday. It's going to be interesting if it goes down even further tomorrow or if that was the low point. - Note that the percentages matter. Apparently the ratings fluctuate a lot in Germany in winter compared to summer. But the percentages should stay the same even if overall viewership across all boards increases. - I could kick myself for not tracking the 14-49s more. But 7,3 really is a troublesome value. They should be having 10 or close to 10. - As always, Ollian weren't the only storyline, ratings of VL have been down in general, etc... - VL's sister soap Marienhof that come on right after did even poorer. More viewers but 8,9 percent (compared to 10,3) overall viewership and 7,2 percent (compared 7,3) younger viewers. I also uploaded the file where I have so far collected the ratings. Sadly it seems the old VL board which kept the ratings from a year ago has disappear so I only have very few data from back then. Anyway, here is the file: www.box.net/shared/uuzgdiegcz#ratings
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Post by lolaruns on Nov 14, 2008 15:33:59 GMT -5
And here are the numbers from a post I made in the German thread. It compares the ratings now (fall of 2008) to the numbers of when Chroust started (fall 2007/beginning of 2008) to one year before Chroust (fall 2006/beginning of 2007):
These are the absolute numbers in millions of viewers:
2006 (Oct/Nov/Dec) [year before Chroust]:
2,43 2,43 2,7 2,89 2,72 2,44 2,59 2,74 2,43 2,66 2,92
December/January 2007/2008 (beginning of Chroust's tenure):
2,19 2,29 2,27 2,47 2,21 2,55 2,59 2,73 2,5 2,68 2,47 2,73
Current October/November (end of Chroust/beginning of Schlesselmann); daily ratings since the return of Sarah October 20th:
1,64 1,77 1,88 1,9 1,91 2,18 2,27 2,01 1,98 1,85 1,98 2,08 1,89 1,74 1,87 2,12 2,12 1,87
Here the same in percentages:
2006/2007 (Oct-Jan):
15,7 16,3 16,8 14,8 14,6 13,4 13,6 15,6 13,7 14,6 14,5 13,3 12,6 13,4 13,6
2007/2008 (Dec/Jan)
15,2 11,9 12 12,4 13,7 12,2 12,7 12,8 13,3 12,7 13,4 12,6 13,9
2008 (again Oct/Dec):
10,6 10,6 11,2 11,9 12,1 11,5 12,1 10,8 10,7 10,8 10,7 11,3 10,5 10,5 10,3 11,5 11,9 10,3
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kes
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Without community, there is no liberation. Audre Lorde
Posts: 1,583
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Post by kes on Nov 14, 2008 15:37:09 GMT -5
www.tvrage.com/shows/id-16615/episodes/715604/13x244According to this site, in German and English, Sept 26th looks like Chroust's last air date. I have to double-check, though. However, that would be a day after the Axel/Olli/Christian arc ended. (The hospital scene was Monday the 22nd.) (As an aside: forgive me if I was rather obnoxious regarding this topic in the past. One factor: I can't control ratings, so they scare me. I don't like the low numbers either.)
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Post by lolaruns on Nov 14, 2008 15:47:26 GMT -5
I just wanted to show these numbers because it sometimes seemed to me like some fans were acting like the rating drop was just something that Carlafans or others had made up. But the rating drop is real regardless of what might have caused it or whether we like it or not. BTW, crazylilly and I are planning to run some graphic tools over the data to visualize things a bit more. Maybe some trends could become a bit more obvious through that. Also, we are always looking for new older data on VL ratings. Sadly the red Claudie Hiersche Forum at razyboard went down at the beginning of october after I had transcribed only a month or so of 2006 ratings. So, if anybody has any old ratings or knows where to get any, we are collecting. So far I collected: 1.) All VL mentions at Quotenmeter as far as it would go back 2.) The data from the green CH forum 3.) the daily UFA and daserste ratings who unfortunately only stay on a day 4.) all archive.org versions of the two pages 5.) What I could grab from the red forum (sadly I didn't know it was going under) I already tried archive.org and googlecache on the red forum but sadly it didn't work.
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kes
Full Member
Without community, there is no liberation. Audre Lorde
Posts: 1,583
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Post by kes on Nov 14, 2008 16:00:13 GMT -5
I just wanted to show these numbers because it sometimes seemed to me like some fans were acting like the rating drop was just something that Carlafans or others had made up. But the rating drop is real regardless of what might have caused it or whether we like it or not. BTW, crazylilly and I are planning to run some graphic tools over the data to visualize things a bit more. Maybe some trends could become a bit more obvious through that. Also, we are always looking for new older data on VL ratings. Sadly the red Claudie Hiersche Forum at razyboard went down at the beginning of october after I had transcribed only a month or so of 2006 ratings. So, if anybody has any old ratings or knows where to get any, we are collecting. I'll try to help -- but not speaking German is a handicap. I just got pushed onto a site I'd rather not have seen. This may be a silly suggestion (I don't know a lot on this issue) but would the numbers still be available on hardcopy? I don't know if the network would give that information on request, but thought I'd suggest.
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Post by lolaruns on Nov 14, 2008 16:08:47 GMT -5
We don't know. I have written to ARD and if they say no we'll try to write to ufa.de and quotenmeter.
Sadly there is the chance that they might not be willing to give the info out to "civillians" like us.
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nrw
Junior Member
Posts: 211
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Post by nrw on Nov 14, 2008 16:08:56 GMT -5
Thank you so much. My first question... can somebody tell me again which was Chroust's last episode? And which one was Schlesselmann's first as a producer? According to the original cast list of DasErste, which is included (and updated) at the end of each episode: September, 26: "Producer: Simon Müller-Elmau" "Chefautor: Tom Chroust" September, 29: "Producer: Simon Müller-Elmau" "Co-Producer: Peter Schlesselmann" "Chefautor: Tom Chroust" ... October, 20: "Producer: Simon Müller-Elmau" "Co-Producer: Peter Schlesselmann" "Chefautor: Tom Chroust" October, 21: "Producer: Simon Müller-Elmau" "Co-Producer: Peter Schlesselmann" "Chefautor: Peter Schlesselmann"
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Post by lolaruns on Nov 14, 2008 16:13:47 GMT -5
BTW, cool find with the tvrage site! They have some rating info too! ETA: There is also Ufacts. They are new every month. Nov 1st: Oct 1st: Sept 1st: Aug 1st: Jul 1st:
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kes
Full Member
Without community, there is no liberation. Audre Lorde
Posts: 1,583
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Post by kes on Nov 14, 2008 16:40:48 GMT -5
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Post by lolaruns on Nov 20, 2008 12:20:10 GMT -5
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Post by crazylilly on Nov 20, 2008 14:02:19 GMT -5
Wow. I'm surprised we have another headwriter after such short time again. He was working for "Verliebt in Berlin" from 2005-2007. Interesting. Wasn't Schleselmann working for that show as well?
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Post by lolaruns on Nov 20, 2008 14:05:12 GMT -5
I think Schlesselmann/Badura have been a team from the start. Kinda like Chroust/Schleicher. If you look, Schlesselmann is still producer, so they are both still on.
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Post by crazylilly on Nov 20, 2008 14:46:53 GMT -5
I was thinking, maybe Badura had some other commitments he had to finish first. So Schleselmann had both jobs for some time.
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Post by chrollifan on Nov 24, 2008 16:09:46 GMT -5
For the record: Peter Schlesselmann was listed last time as headwriter on November 18th and Holger Badura first time on November 19th. I don't think either, that there will be any big change: Schlesselmann is a co-producer of current episodes and he will be a producer (according to DasErste), so probably he just gave away some everyday business. It's interesting to note, that Schlesselmann wrote personally Friday's episode - it shows, that he is still very active in writing. Sarah and Leonard are now finally married and I can say, that this wedding preparations storyline (which was first big story for Schlesselmann-Badura) was really boring. I still can't believe, that writers didn't threw any major hurdles on their way, they could've made at least Gregor a little bit more resentful, if they had no better ideas. SaLeo were just snogging around all the time and had little foreshadowing angst, but nothing interesting happened. (For example: Susanne&Carla wedding preparations were part of Arno-Elisabeth-Johannes triangle and their wedding ended with hostage crisis, when Susanne's psycho ex-husband showed up. Or Leonard-Jana wedding, where it was clear that they are not "meant to be" together and Adrian dropped the bomb, saying Johannes, that Leonard and Sarah are not siblings.) It looks like new writers are really not very interested in writing for "old" couples and continuing old stories. SPOILER: Ansgalie will be even broken up with this silly Hannes' christening plot. Yes, their "best before" was over long time ago - though, who knows, maybe new guys are thinking the same thing about Chrolli, as I'm thinking about Ansgalie And this Lydia's blog-stuff sounds not much better. Maybe they get more inspired about new stories, what they have started themselves, (and not only new stories for new couples, but also new stories for "old" couples, like Chrolli). At least at the moment I have a feeling, that there is a let-down. Hopefully it's only interregnum, when old people are going and new ones coming and things are getting better...
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Post by lolaruns on Nov 25, 2008 2:35:48 GMT -5
Yes, it bothers me that at the moment it seems like the only "spark" the show has all seems to come from new couples like Sebastian/Olivia or Stella/Carla, both based on what has aired so far and at least from the sounds of the spoilers.
The interesting thing is... the writing isn't really bad. It seems to me that there very much are moments of good writing. For example, it seems that Nathalie has gotten slightly more proactive both against Ansgar and against Tanja. And the SaLeo wedding itself was well written enough considering the circumstances. But the main problem seems to be that the storylines just trudge along with no highlights.
As I said elsewhere, this *should* be an exciting time. They killed off a character (Tanja's mom who suicided in front of her daughter), two important characters are getting married (SaLeo), a fan favorite is leaving (Constantin), a couple is getting together (Lydia's parents), Nathalie finally seems serious about leaving Ansgar, etc. Technically stuff has happened in the last few episodes. So why doesn't it *feel* like stuff has happened.
And the most actual sparks seem to come from characters who will soon be in new storylines, Carla and Olivia. With all the other storylines it seems like the writers give them decent writing that is roughly appropriate for the characters, but seem to feel no real connection to the characters.
And I agree the wedding preparations of SaLeo were really bland. I do understand from a stategical POV that maybe they didn't want to go the big drama route with an angry Gregor and so on. After all, SaLeo have been constant drama for about 2 years now and people are really sick of them. So not making a big storylines out of this might have been a sound decision. But it was just really boring. It wasn't even very heatwarming or "affirming the couples love". At points it felt like maybe that was what it was supposed to be, but it just felt really bland. And even the actors seemed to be clueless what to do with the material they were given.
Ansgarlie bothers me because to me Ansgar and Tanja are the bad guys. It just seems unfair that Nathalie gets written off alone. If soap fairness were to exist then Tanja and Ansgar should leave the show and Nathalie should be allowed to find new love. Or let her have her long last happy end and write Ansgar, Hannes and Nathalie off together.
As a character Nathalie has had so much crap happen to her lately, it just seems like writing her out with a whimper is like adding insult to injury. Yes, one can argue that the character is played out but it just seems like a very sad way to end the story.
If it were up to me Carla and Nathalie would have started a kick-ass hot affair and ran off to travel the world together. Heck, even Nathalie and Gregor comiserating and leaving together would be a slightly more positive end rather than a broken, beaten and dumped Nathalie leaving the city while Ansgar gets it on with Tanja.
Oh and particularly the spoilers about the christening make me want to stab my eyes out. It sounds both cheesy and boring. What a terrible choice for the around Christmas episodes.
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Post by lolaruns on Nov 28, 2008 7:00:41 GMT -5
Because I felt it was interesting, the ratings for the SaLeo wedding:
Verbotene Liebe Folge 3283 2,20 Mio 11,2% (Leo and Sarah sneak off to get married) Verbotene Liebe Folge 3284 2,03 Mio 11,0% (the actual ceremony) Verbotene Liebe Folge 3285 1,89 Mio 10,4% (the afterparty + Sarah and Leo leave for their honeymoon)
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Post by lolaruns on Nov 29, 2008 3:17:35 GMT -5
I stumbled across this at the Claudia Hiersche board. It's the network official preview for 2009. It has a few spoilers (for other storylines, not for Ollian). I thought the part where they define what VL was interesting (I wonder if anybody has the same preview for 2008; would be interesting what that talked about): Monday to Friday at 18.00 is the time for love, for secret wishes and yearnings, for happiness and intrigues. Forbidden Love shows stories from the first awakening of tender feelings to the failure of great love. Nothing is more human than to dream and to fight for these dreams - and that exactly happens day by day on the glamour daily soap, the "Chanel soap among the German soaps" (stern magazine) awarded with the Rose d'Or as the best soap world wide.
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Post by crazylilly on Nov 29, 2008 6:19:56 GMT -5
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Post by lolaruns on Nov 29, 2008 7:13:25 GMT -5
Yes, I immediately noticed that as well. I mean seriously, who would, when describing their show, willingly say that their show is about the failure of great love unless they were referring to a specific storyline? At first I thought that maybe that they were refering to all the supercouple that ended in death like Leo and Ceile or Henning and Marie and and and. But I would hardly call that "Scheitern". So my pet theories are that: - It's about Gregor and Sarah since one of the first things that struck me as odd about the summary was that Sarah/Sina gets mentioned by name. So Sarah was Gregor's great love. It failed and now he finds new love. - It's about Lydia and Sebastian (yay!) because supposedly there was a picture of them in a romantic setting in the advertising folder they hand out. So.... Lydia and Sebastian love each other, but can't overcome their differences aka the failure of great love. - It's about Ansgarlie. They are each others big love, but right at the beginning of the year they break up and he gets with Tanja. (Tansgar are another one of the couples who show up in the pictures in the advertising folders; and let's not forget that Tansagr are the "bumper" couple, the ones who are pictured together at the end) BTW; did you see the chart about hat kind of social classes watch VL? www.ard-werbung.de/860.htmlI wonder what those people had to do to get classified as hedonists or postmaterialists. ;D According to this graph German society can be divided up into these groups: Conversatives (A12) Traditionalists (A23) People who are notalgic about the DDR (AB2) Burgeouis middle Class (B2) Establishment (B1) Consumer-Materialists (B3) Post-Materialists (B12) Modern Performers (C12) Experimentalists (C2) Hedonicts (BC3)
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Post by lolaruns on Nov 29, 2008 7:52:08 GMT -5
BTW, anybody want to venture a guess who is gonna be in the next Verbotene Liebe banner over at the official fansite? Somehow I have the sinking feeling that they are going to take Ollian out once the new storylines arrive.
Right now it's Ollian, SaLeo and Lydia/Sebastian.
My guess for next year is: Gregor+New Chick, Stella+Carla, Lydia/Sebastian
OR Lydia/Sebastian + their hanger ons like Olivia (one of the old banners was Jana, Leo, Sarah, Gregor, the active quadrangle)
OR they are going to put Tansgar up there as wel.
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Post by crazylilly on Nov 29, 2008 7:59:14 GMT -5
The chart of the viewers is really interesting. So much to the topic of "Unterschichtenfernsehen". VL certainly isn't.
The new banner - well I think whoever is on it - it will give us a good idea about the couples who are important for the show in the next month. But shouldn't there be a new banner sometime now?
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Post by lolaruns on Nov 29, 2008 8:14:29 GMT -5
Maybe they just don't list the uneducated masses because naturally the "hedonistic consumers" are more interesting to the advertisers. Or it could just be a bracket they are focusing on. You know the way the CW in the US most focuses no reporting the younger female viewers they attract. As for the banner, you mean important for the next year, right? I think with all the new characters and storylines arriving the chances of Ollian staying on are pretty low For the record, being on the banner does not ensure happiness (Max and Gregor were on the banner as well as Nico and Andi). Nor does not being on the banner mean that you don't get a storyline. Judith and her boys for example were never on the banner. Nor were Olivia/Andi I think. I think SuCa, SaLeo and Nico/Andi were couples that were around for more than one banner.
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