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Post by Flippityfloppityflip on Apr 8, 2010 21:23:28 GMT -5
I don't know, FlippityFloppoty, I just like the drama. I would HATE it if they "turned Christian straight." But right now, I am just thrilled with the tension and dialogue. This is what love is all about. The tension between Christian and Olli is much more real (and full of love) than any smooching. However, I understand one thing: Why did that kiss between Christian and Rebecca have to be so long? Are the writers being interesting? (My hope) OR homophobic idiots (My fear) Flippityfloppityflip - I'm totally with you. I love the drama, hence, I have a hard time hating Rebecca and an even harder time hating Rob (hey, what can I say, I have a weak spot for bad boys). The way Rob looked Olli over at No Limits was classic! I too am bewildered by the length and emotion of the Chribecca kiss. It just seems so out of proportion to Rob/Olli's kiss. I like to think the writers intended that the emotion with which Christian kissed Rebecca stemmed from desperation instead of passion -desperation, jealously, fear, sadness. However, good point about writer intent. I don't recall the writers writing anything quite so passionate and prolonged for Christian and Olli. I think it's safe to assume that no matter how progressive Germany is they must still be sensitive to portraying the Chrolli storyline somewhat more "romantically" then "passionately." Otherwise, Olli would have give Christian a really passionate kiss before declaring him the "best kisser in the Northern Hemisphere" rather than that sideways, partial peck. Hi Rosebud. I must confess to not being the author of the bit that you quoted and refer to. Praise should go to Kes for making those interesting points.
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Post by brownsugar on Apr 8, 2010 23:30:18 GMT -5
The thing is, VL can linger on the kissing with Christian and Rebecca because that's ALL there is between them...the empty physical. It's what they're limited to because there is no real emotional connection between them, no real FEELINGS from Christian, no heart skipping a beat at the core of things...but he DOES have that sort of connection with Olli...a soulmates connection. Christian and Olli share SO more than Christian and Rebecca would ever be able to. There just is NO favourable comparison where Christian/Olli and Christian/Rebecca are concerned. Christian and Olli are so much more than a 'sad empty snog'. They've shown us so often that deeper bond they share that goes so far beyond the physical, it's just pure magic. There's nothing deeper between Christian and Rebecca than a snog. Rebecca is just sort of 'there'. With kisses between Christian and Olli, it's quality over quantity! And it's not just only an physical act here, between Christian and Rebecca, but not even one with 'feelings' from Christian side. It's completely NOTHING...whereas Christian and Olli SHOW us, time and time again, that they are completely EVERYTHING. :)x I'm just so dismayed, with what you've said Joanna. Why can't anyone just say that Thore was obviously relishing the rare opportunity he gets to suck face with a girl on screen rather than have to endure Jo's scruff. That combined with the director's shout out to Thore and Jasmine that as it's a hetero kiss they can take their time as they don't need to worry about upsetting certain elements of the viewing public. I feel even angrier comparing the kiss between Jo and Robert in yesterday's episode and the pecks (kiss is too big a word for them) between Christian and Jo in this episode. Come on folks, despite the fact that Christian is feeling guilty shouldn't the kisses between him and Jo have been more loving if not passionate. Loving looks are good yes, but loving looks and loving, lingering smooches would be heaps better. People might talk about the hot make out scenes between Christian and Jo, particularly the most recent one, to say what I'm saying is not true. But the scene lasted less than a minute and half of that time was intercut with Andi and David. Did they treat GreLu, HelAndi, LySeb and others this way? Not very often if at all I would think. I feel like Oliver Twist at the moment. Instead of being grateful for the pitiful amount of gruel that he's being given, and knowing that he'll get a beating for it, at least he's brave enough to stand up and indicate it's not enough and he wants more. In my case I want more equality in direction of the characters be they straight, gay, bisexual or asexual. Flippity...I so agree with what you have written. I hinted at this yesterday in my post regarding the extended lip lock of Christian and Rebecca. Christian and Olli have kissed countless times in the last year, but not one so deep and passionate as what took place between Christian and Rebecca. Even today we were subject to a continuation of that prolonged kiss and what I view has a sensual kiss between Rebecca and Christian. Meanwhile, Olli, who had just declared to Christian, 'you are the love of my life' resulted in a three second peck to the lips. The last time I saw Olli and Christian kiss the way Christian and Rebecca did was during the very first time they kissed and slept together over two years ago. Lets put it this way...if you were to tune into the end of yesterdays episode not knowing anything about Olli and Christian's history as a couple, and saw Christian and Rebecca looking dreamily into each other's eyes and then kissing the way they did you, would think they were a couple that had the 'hots' for each other. It's only because we fans know the history of Ollian that we are able to see the big picture and judge differently. Now this is only my opnion...I'm quite aware that every scene is as directed, but it just seemed to me watching yesterday's scene that Thore enjoyed that kiss with Jamine more than he should have and was obviously given the green light to kiss long and hard. And i'm sure for him it was a welcome relief from all the stubble he complains about with Jo. Plus, he gets to suck face for a full quarter minute with a female. It's so odd that Olli and Christian are allowed to have these sensual sex scenes with undressing each other, even one time Olli looking under the sheets when Christian couldn't get an erection, but when it comes to kissing we are rarely given the type of kissing that took place between Christian and Rebecca. Now having vented I will say these last two episodes have been brilliant. The acting is the best I've seen from Jo and Thore on VL. The actor that plays Max is also so good and is a great addition to to the Ollian storyline. I can't say much about Jasmine Lord because I still think she is an atrocious actress. The only acting skills she seems to possess is the ability to stare and pout at the camera. She brings nothing to the table. Today's episode was a heart breaker with Olli declaring his love for Christian. And he was so happy that Christian had forgiven him. But Christian is good. I think better at hiding his guilt than Olli. Remember how Christian only had to ask twice if something was going on with Rob and Olli couldn't even look at him. Then confessed on the spot. But not Christian. He was able to sit on that couch, look into his boyfriend's eyes and not even flinch has he returned his love and commitment to Olli. Wow...it's going to truly break Olli's heart when he finds out about Christian sucking face with their so called best friend...Rebecca.
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Post by chrolliforever7 on Apr 8, 2010 23:35:15 GMT -5
Brownsugar, you pretty much said it all perfectly and as much as I hate to say it, I agree with every word... its disgusting how much longer and sensualer that kiss was than the olli/rob one...its almost unfair and I totally hate it...but you're right i think the fact that Thore's straight had something to do with the deepness and passion of that kiss.... I do wonder sometimes if the writers are a bit homophobic, cuz ur right about that too, that the last time Chrolli kissed like that was right before their first time. I've always thought the writers were homophobic, but this reinforced it completely.
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Post by brownsugar on Apr 8, 2010 23:53:03 GMT -5
Brownsugar, you pretty much said it all perfectly and as much as I hate to say it, I agree with every word... its disgusting how much longer and sensualer that kiss was than the olli/rob one...its almost unfair and I totally hate it...but you're right i think the fact that Thore's straight had something to do with the deepness and passion of that kiss.... I do wonder sometimes if the writers are a bit homophobic, cuz ur right about that too, that the last time Chrolli kissed like that was right before their first time. I've always thought the writers were homophobic, but this reinforced it completely. Chrolli...I was pretty pissed yesterday when I saw that kiss play out. I really didn't think it was going to be so long and ongoing for 16 seconds. And lets be honest...Olli and Christian have not kissed like that in ages. Then of course there was the quick three second contrast kiss between Olli and Robert. A huge double standard. I've watched that kissing scene twice already and have no desire to see it again, but it is so in your face more sensual than what the VL crew have allowed between Olli and Christian in the past. And even more annoying is the fact that Olli and Christian's kisses will be quick pecks that seem to always get cut short. It was almost like the VL crew was saying to Thore...go for it, you deserved this after two years of kissing a man with stubble. He may have deserved it, but I as a viewer certainly didn't want to see it. I wish it had been cut to three seconds.
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thunderkat
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Post by thunderkat on Apr 8, 2010 23:59:29 GMT -5
A lot of people have said that Christian is a better liar than olli <---- Gross oversimplification, I know. But olli kissed Rob WEEKS (2?) ago, and was planning on never saying a thing till Christian confronted him. I think Olli is much better at keeping secrets, and would even posit that he gets a kick out of it (E.G. i think he enjoyed closeted Christian until Wolle). From the audience perspective the guilt seems splashed across Christian's face...Like so much urine on the face of kleptomaniac countess ;D. In Olli's case, however, If they never brought it up again, I would've forgotten something happened between Olli and Rob. Perhaps it's symptomatic of Olli's character. Maybe he's just better able to compartmentalize. Rob the business partner is separated from Rob the suitor, it could potentially be why he just doesn't see the problem with spending time with Rob, and why he was, ostensibly, not going to tell Christian about the kiss. That and the fact that it was 1/2 of a microsecond long . RE: the kiss length, i always get a little weirded out when the actors sexuality comes into play, or possible writer bias. Besides, if anyone is deciding how the kiss plays out it's the director right? What else can the writer say besides "Christian and Rebecca kiss." "Christian and Olli kiss" etc. Thore and Jo have showed us, especially THIS week, that they are professional actors. It's uncharitable, I think, to say that it's Thore enjoying it more or less. It's Christian. So the question becomes (if you even believe he was enjoying it) what is the director or fine even the writers intention in having it last that long. And, once again, we have to remember that unfortunately Christian's story is rebecca's story. This is rebecca's BIG moment, so it's not going to be just a little pec for her, it's got to be epic and it's got to imbue her with false hope. Plus i bet Christian was trying to pry her lamprey-ish lips off when David walked in, we just couldn't see it at that angle. ;D PPS. I have touched the stubble...Thore must have VERY sensitive skin... cause Jo's scruff is SOFT like BUTTAH. so the mystery continues...
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Post by tihkon2 on Apr 9, 2010 0:18:32 GMT -5
Moderator Post
and...
Please, please, please, do not go down this road of speculation.
It is entirely unprovable by any of you and your "feelings" that you're right are not based on any factual evidence.
This type of speculation is unpleasant and unnecessary and inappropriate in my opinion.
I find it offensive. To me it's the exact same thing as saying that Neil Patrick Harris must have looked at his male co-star too long because he's gay.
You may PM bonobochick if you have a problem with this post as my feelings on this subject are perfectly clear.
Thank you.
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mycatfox
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Post by mycatfox on Apr 9, 2010 1:03:32 GMT -5
I have to agree with many comments: Chribecca's kiss was unbearably long, and disgustingly sensual. I expected both kisses would have the same treatment, not this very dissimilar ( and highly suspicious) approach. Though it could easily lead people to think that it came out that way because Thore is str8 in real life, I'm much more inclined to think it was deliberately written that way Which it pissed me off even more The acting of the guys, once again, was amazing; I think Jazmin Lord keeps being an actress of limited resources. But I have to say ( don't shoot me, Paul!) she looked stunningly beautiful Vielen Dank Nanna for the episode!
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Post by dalphine on Apr 9, 2010 1:09:23 GMT -5
I agree with the last two post that people shouldn't speculate, I believe Thore did his job the way the script was written and he was directed.
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maya
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Post by maya on Apr 9, 2010 1:10:09 GMT -5
Though it could easily lead people to think that it came out that way because Thore is str8 in real life, I'm much more inclined to think it was deliberately written that way Which it pissed me off even more I agree and it piss me off as well
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Post by dalphine on Apr 9, 2010 1:14:46 GMT -5
Myself I didn't find Thore and Rebecca kiss all the good just my opinion.
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Post by papperlapp on Apr 9, 2010 1:32:23 GMT -5
Chrolli...I was pretty pissed yesterday when I saw that kiss play out. I really didn't think it was going to be so long and ongoing for 16 seconds. And lets be honest...Olli and Christian have not kissed like that in ages. Then of course there was the quick three second contrast kiss between Olli and Robert. A huge double standard. I've watched that kissing scene twice already and have no desire to see it again, but it is so in your face more sensual than what the VL crew have allowed between Olli and Christian in the past. And even more annoying is the fact that Olli and Christian's kisses will be quick pecks that seem to always get cut short. It was almost like the VL crew was saying to Thore...go for it, you deserved this after two years of kissing a man with stubble. He may have deserved it, but I as a viewer certainly didn't want to see it. I wish it had been cut to three seconds. Yeah, I agree, I felt the same watching it. Totally unnecessary to draw out that kiss for so long. And I totally don't get why the Rolli kiss had to be so chaste, it was really jarring in comparison. Especially considering how NOBODY wanted to see Christian and Rebecca kiss, not even the Non-Chrolli fans and I'm sure a nice Rolli kiss would have pleased more people I almost want Olli to jump Robert immediately when/if he hears of the kiss, just for the sake of equality ;D But I made up some excuses for the little pecks in the end: it would have been creepy to kiss Olli passionately after having locked lips with Rebecca. So I'm happy that Olli's lips aren't tainted too much. But seriously, the show (and Thore. I know you can do it buddy) owe us now. Big time. At least a full make out session. And some groping coming from Christian. If he can touch Rebecca all the time, he can do it with Olli too. (Or that thing with the southern lips that was mentioned ) See, I'm easy to please.
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I ♥ Blaine
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Post by I ♥ Blaine on Apr 9, 2010 1:51:33 GMT -5
I watched yesterdays episode on a big 40 inch HD television.. Let me tell you it was a traumatic experience to see the first scene in that format.... The Chrolli scenes were niiiiiice. ;D I think Jo and Thore are doing an amazing job, and we shouldn't pull their personal lives into what is happening in the storyline! I do however agree that we haven't had deep passionate chrolli kisses for a while. You all say the last time was on the night of their first time (which I think is an even bigger favorite of mine than the 04.04.08 episode), but we should not forget when Olli returned from Ibiza...It wasn't like 17.03.08, but still more passionate than most:
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I ♥ Blaine
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Post by I ♥ Blaine on Apr 9, 2010 2:17:50 GMT -5
Myself I didn't find Thore and Rebecca kiss all the good just my opinion. Christian and Rebecca...
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thunderkat
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Post by thunderkat on Apr 9, 2010 2:22:56 GMT -5
nein nein THIS is one of the tops...
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I ♥ Blaine
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Post by I ♥ Blaine on Apr 9, 2010 2:49:03 GMT -5
nein nein THIS is one of the tops... Ah, ja genau. Du hast recht! (sp?). Aber ich finde die beide Szenen perfekt! ;D (Lol. this is my Chrolli-german. I mean both scenes are perfect)
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Post by katiem26 on Apr 9, 2010 3:01:43 GMT -5
I agree with the last two post that people shouldn't speculate, I believe Thore did his job the way the script was written and he was directed. THe actors have always said that every scene is choreographed. I think the kiss went on for so long because they had to show Davids reaction. I havnt watched it again yet but imo there appeared to be no passion on Christians face when he pulls away. Who knows what the writers are thinking. Im just pleased its over.
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Post by willow97 on Apr 9, 2010 3:09:20 GMT -5
I know a lot of people are upset about the duration of the kiss as opposed to Rolli's. However, I think it is meant to show us that Olli's kiss with Rob was meaningless (hence short and lack lustre) and the kiss between Rebecca and Christian was more calculated and potentially more harmful. I'm not suggesting that subconsciously Christian has feelings for Rebecca but more that he is out of control with his jealously and need for attention - hence the intial hesitation and then he just sort of got caught up in the moment. I think this is also represented by Christian's blase attitude towards everyone he is hurting including David, Rebecca and most of all Olli. I think the fact that he is obviously less affectionate nowdays is bc of his seething anger on a subconscious level. He portrays everything as ok but really is angry that he is no longer Olli's main focus. I honestly don't think he realises how selfish and tiresome he's become.
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Post by favoritetree on Apr 9, 2010 3:18:32 GMT -5
I couldn't understand such a prolonged kiss. David could have walked in on them nose to nose and it would have worked. Does the director even realize...? How free is the actor...? Amazing.
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Post by JustaMannsMan on Apr 9, 2010 4:20:52 GMT -5
I was pretty pissed yesterday when I saw that kiss play out. I really didn't think it was going to be so long and ongoing for 16 seconds. Weird... cuz I have two stopwatches, one analog, one digital, plus a Rolex and they all came up with +/- 15 3/100 seconds for the kiss. And it can't just be my batteries because the Rolex is self-winding and like many I've been running around hysterically waving my hands in the air ever since the Christian-Rebecca kiss, so I know it's as wound up as I am. I wonder if we're timing the same kiss. And I'm right there with you on the stubble silliness. I've been with my boyfriend for years and years (and years) and he STILL bitches about mine. And let me tell you, it's a headache for me because I can shave at 7am and have nice (well, if you like that sorta thing) 5 o'clock shadow by lunchtime. Can't wait till morning so I can bring him here and show him how silly he's being for not liking stubble. Sheesh... he acts just like a straight guy. ;D
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valso
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Post by valso on Apr 9, 2010 4:31:36 GMT -5
Like many others have already said I love drama as well cause Jo and Thore are at their best in that kind of scenes. IMHO Christian showed that he still felt guilty towards Olli and probably worried too of hurting him confessing the kiss with Rebecca, while Olli was just declaring his love for him.
So overall I can say that I enjoyed the last couple of episodes but this don't change the fact that from an objective point of view Christian and Rebecca kiss was a lot worse than Rolli kiss and way too long and passionate than necessary. And we shouldn't forget that it was also the episode cliffhanger, so I can't help but wonder why it was filmed that way. Was it just because David had to walk in on them? Or there were other reasons behind this director's unfortunate choice? Anyway iit felt to me like an unnecessary slap on Chrolli fans faces.
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valso
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Post by valso on Apr 9, 2010 4:34:54 GMT -5
nein nein THIS is one of the tops... OMG I almost forgot about that kiss! It's ones of my favourite! ;D
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joanna
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Post by joanna on Apr 9, 2010 7:00:50 GMT -5
Ah, ja genau. Du hast recht! (sp?). Aber ich finde die beide Szenen perfekt! ;D I'm just pleased that I understood every word of that and so haven't had to 'google translate' it to work out what you're on about! ;D
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Post by MercuryMay on Apr 9, 2010 7:15:30 GMT -5
I had a little catching up to do and just now saw the latest episode and read the comments. I´m confused about some of them. You honestly think that Thore so desperately wants to kiss a woman on screen, that he seizes the moment and kisses his co-actress for as long as he can get away with? Or that the production would reward him with a „straight kiss“ to luxuriate in? Please, folks! I can´t even put into (english) words how much I disagree with that assumption. If this kiss wasn´t supposed to play out exactly as it did, we wouldn´t have gotten so see it. I absolutely agree, that it was a very long kiss and I really wanted Christian to stop, because it hurt my little Chrolli-heart, but it was (presumably) an important part of their storyline. Right now I can only speculate about the meaning. Several reasons have been mentioned and I think one important point is, that it was the cliffhanger and David was supposed to walk in. And it´s supposed to show Christians confusion about what is going on with Olli. The last thing we heard him say before the kiss was „Am I not good enough for him anymore?“ and we saw this desperate look... He doubts himself, he is hurt and desperate. He does something incredibly stupid, that will bite his cute behind. I also think he is the worst liar ever and won´t be able to keep it in for long. You can see it when he talked to David and Olli entered the apartment and he put on a false smile. And you can see his bad conscience in every second of their scene one the sofa, especially when Olli says all these lovely things. Olli, ach, Olli – I just about melt when he looks at Christian with that „I´m-so-happy-and-so-much-in-love-with-you-look“. Sheesh, that man is gorgeous. I´m also a sucker for Rob. He´s temptation personified. Not only is the character deliciously evil, but Max Engelke is a casting-stroke of luck. It would take some really intense character AND convincing actor to make it believable that somebody or something could come between Christian and Olli. I love to see Christian and Olli happy, but I reeeeeally enjoy the drama! Bring it on! KUDOS to Jo and Thore. I am really happy that they get a chance to show off their fab acting skills. It´s a pleasure to watch them act and do their magic. P.S. The hangar-kiss is my favourite, but I really also love Christian´s first dream-kiss at the boxing club. THAT was a passionate kiss. Yummy. P.P.S. Thanks to Nanna, Tihkon, Joanna and Sonnenschein.
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SF
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Post by SF on Apr 9, 2010 7:27:45 GMT -5
i think they orchestrated the kiss as longer - because christian is a bit of a tight-arse and i get slight whiff of moral superiority whenever he knows olli's been naughty. so to make him feel all the more guilty for HIS slip up, they made it *MAJAH* and they made olli super-saccharine-sweet after so christian can stew in his own guilt ridden juices for a while. means he can't interfere in rolli - giving it a chance to develop - and it provides us with lots of pretty eyelash batting angsty scenes in the meantime. and both of those are pluses in my book. even if i did have to sit through a quarter of a minutes worth of SHEER TORTURE and now possess the knowledge that christian's lips are forever tainted with whoretastic lavender glossed sting of the countesses pretty little pout. (side note: why do they dress poor jasmin so fugly?!?! as an actress of 'limited resources' (i like that whoever said it) her looks are the sum of most of what she has going for her, and they put her in a purple sack and bunch it all together with the most hideous diarrhea coloured 'bow' i've ever seen, makes her look about five stone heavier than she is AND confirms my suspicion christian is well and truly HOMO because he called the whole messy concoction 'pretty' - is he blind?!?!?!!?!?) yeah, so i don't think it was poor thore. i don't think he's SO desperate to kiss *any* female lips, he'd cunningly alter stage direction exactly at the moment of filming just to get his kicks! makes me giggle as a theory, but aside from that N-O.
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Post by MercuryMay on Apr 9, 2010 8:07:48 GMT -5
...to get his kicks! makes me giggle as a theory, but aside from that N-O. And THAT made me laugh out loud. You´re right, as a theory it is kind of entertaining. ;D ;D
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