thunderkat
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By Scissorknot
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Post by thunderkat on Apr 8, 2010 17:40:27 GMT -5
joanna! oh god you just shot my productivity right through the heart... thank you for MY new wallpaper, lol. justamannsman Look at Rob's lips. not thin, cruel yes, but not thin bird lips. They're big enough for Olli and that's all that matters.
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kes
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Without community, there is no liberation. Audre Lorde
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Post by kes on Apr 8, 2010 18:14:30 GMT -5
You made me think of something: I thought Christian was devious today -- I mean the way addicts are devious when they lie. Thore really acted it well. He was angry that David caught him, not because he felt he was doing something wrong, but because he didn't want to get caught. Here I see unresolved father issues. His father was an addict, and probably able to lie with the best of them. And even Christian can do it -- And be peevish, like Olli. This was new today: Christian being a bit peevish and mischevious, just as Olli can be. I love it. And I love Max E. Rebecca: I can't blame her. She's such a goof, and kind of sweet for it. To give Fieler credit, she has layed the groundwork: Helena coming back, Rebecca's career falling apart, and subtle things -- like the way she constantly overdresses. She can't stand herself and is immature. Again, a kid. But a kid who has the ability to be strong, to some degree, perhaps in a relationship with someone who "gets" her like David. Christian does not "get" her in the least. He is using her just as his brother used women. I really think Chrisitan is gay and not bisexual. I don't think women are "real" to him as lovers the way men are, the way Olli is. I haven't seen the early Coco days, but what I have seen is a man who is love with Olli, and terrified of his own sexuality. He is "out and proud" but sometimes it feels like a defense -- a way to fend off attack before it happens. Strangely, it seems a way to keep men at a distance. I am not quite sure how -- but it feels that way. I wish they would explore Christian having an affair with another man. That would really be incredible. May I just say: Intelectual SQUEEEE Some time ago when I finished seeing the previous episodes and Chrolli was dead in the water I thought a bit about how they could their wonderful story to go on, after the universal coming out storyline, and my idea was a trio. And I don't ,mean a threesome, I mean a real trio, 3 men in love with each other. You see even though love its the same whether gay or straight, there are differences, and one of them is that if another man comes along, both members of the couple can be interested in him. I never had one and I don't know any real trios working, just one couple that's looking to add one more, but any one who's been to a gay "dating" (yes, it's a euphemism) sites knows there's always the category "couples looking for a third for fun &/or more". I always thought the right way to do it is to have Christian fall in love with the guy first, he's the character that's got more to learn from that experience, right now he's only been with Ollie. He may even think he just loves Ollie, not men in general, so that would be the real good story for me, Christian finding out what being gay means to him. Allas, it was not to be, so I was really disappointed when Christian got Rebecca and Jo got Rob. But we can hope! I appreciate your post a lot. I've been living in the straight world, and the polyamory option is always around there -- I wonder if it is the same? Usually one member of the couple wants it more than the other. Or one falls in love and the other doesn't. Or, in one way or another, someone gets burned. I'd love to see a real Christian-Olli-Rob triangle.
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joanna
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Former Verbotene Liebe Champion.
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Post by joanna on Apr 8, 2010 18:18:37 GMT -5
It was said over Rebecca's face *grrr*...but...still... at "Du bist die Liebe meines Lebens".
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tlynn
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Post by tlynn on Apr 8, 2010 18:29:03 GMT -5
Can I just say how hot Jo was in today's epi. He was really working the yellow button up and black tie...Like a cute little bumblebee.
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gelybi
Junior Member
Last passionate kiss???
Posts: 665
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Post by gelybi on Apr 8, 2010 18:57:00 GMT -5
Can I just say how hot Jo was in today's epi. He was really working the yellow button up and black tie...Like a cute little bumblebee. OMG! Finally somebody said that!! ;D I'm happy that I'm not the only Jo-obsessed one to say it today But seriously, I don't know why, maybe yellow is his colour or because he was acting an overjoyed-relieved-unvelievable-in love-Olli, but today I found Jo (if possible) even more stunning than his usual...just breathtaking *sights*
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Post by Flippityfloppityflip on Apr 8, 2010 19:22:39 GMT -5
The thing is, VL can linger on the kissing with Christian and Rebecca because that's ALL there is between them...the empty physical. It's what they're limited to because there is no real emotional connection between them, no real FEELINGS from Christian, no heart skipping a beat at the core of things...but he DOES have that sort of connection with Olli...a soulmates connection. Christian and Olli share SO more than Christian and Rebecca would ever be able to. There just is NO favourable comparison where Christian/Olli and Christian/Rebecca are concerned. Christian and Olli are so much more than a 'sad empty snog'. They've shown us so often that deeper bond they share that goes so far beyond the physical, it's just pure magic. There's nothing deeper between Christian and Rebecca than a snog. Rebecca is just sort of 'there'. With kisses between Christian and Olli, it's quality over quantity! And it's not just only an physical act here, between Christian and Rebecca, but not even one with 'feelings' from Christian side. It's completely NOTHING...whereas Christian and Olli SHOW us, time and time again, that they are completely EVERYTHING. :)x I'm just so dismayed, with what you've said Joanna. Why can't anyone just say that Thore was obviously relishing the rare opportunity he gets to suck face with a girl on screen rather than have to endure Jo's scruff. That combined with the director's shout out to Thore and Jasmine that as it's a hetero kiss they can take their time as they don't need to worry about upsetting certain elements of the viewing public. I feel even angrier comparing the kiss between Jo and Robert in yesterday's episode and the pecks (kiss is too big a word for them) between Christian and Jo in this episode. Come on folks, despite the fact that Christian is feeling guilty shouldn't the kisses between him and Jo have been more loving if not passionate. Loving looks are good yes, but loving looks and loving, lingering smooches would be heaps better. People might talk about the hot make out scenes between Christian and Jo, particularly the most recent one, to say what I'm saying is not true. But the scene lasted less than a minute and half of that time was intercut with Andi and David. Did they treat GreLu, HelAndi, LySeb and others this way? Not very often if at all I would think. I feel like Oliver Twist at the moment. Instead of being grateful for the pitiful amount of gruel that he's being given, and knowing that he'll get a beating for it, at least he's brave enough to stand up and indicate it's not enough and he wants more. In my case I want more equality in direction of the characters be they straight, gay, bisexual or asexual.
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kes
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Post by kes on Apr 8, 2010 19:35:29 GMT -5
Nanna, thanks for those captions! The translation is amazing. It breaks my heart. What an episode!
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kes
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Without community, there is no liberation. Audre Lorde
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Post by kes on Apr 8, 2010 19:40:15 GMT -5
The thing is, VL can linger on the kissing with Christian and Rebecca because that's ALL there is between them...the empty physical. It's what they're limited to because there is no real emotional connection between them, no real FEELINGS from Christian, no heart skipping a beat at the core of things...but he DOES have that sort of connection with Olli...a soulmates connection. Christian and Olli share SO more than Christian and Rebecca would ever be able to. There just is NO favourable comparison where Christian/Olli and Christian/Rebecca are concerned. Christian and Olli are so much more than a 'sad empty snog'. They've shown us so often that deeper bond they share that goes so far beyond the physical, it's just pure magic. There's nothing deeper between Christian and Rebecca than a snog. Rebecca is just sort of 'there'. With kisses between Christian and Olli, it's quality over quantity! And it's not just only an physical act here, between Christian and Rebecca, but not even one with 'feelings' from Christian side. It's completely NOTHING...whereas Christian and Olli SHOW us, time and time again, that they are completely EVERYTHING. :)x I'm just so dismayed, with what you've said Joanna. Why can't anyone just say that Thore was obviously relishing the rare opportunity he gets to suck face with a girl on screen rather than have to endure Jo's scrub. That combined with the director's shout out to Thore and Jasmine that as it's a hetero kiss they can take their time as they don't need to worry about upsetting certain elements of the viewing public. I feel even angrier comparing the kiss between Jo and Robert in yesterday's episode and the pecks (kiss is too big a word for them) between Christian and Jo in this episode. Come on folks, despite the fact that Christian is feeling guilty shouldn't the kisses between him and Jo have been more loving if not passionate. Loving looks are good yes, but loving looks and loving, lingering smooches would be heaps better. People might talk about the hot make out scenes between Christian and Jo, particularly the most recent one, to say what I'm saying is not true. But the scene lasted less than a minute and half of that time was intercut with Andi and David. Did they treat GreLu, HelAndi, LySeb and others this way? Not very often if at all I would think. I feel like Oliver Twist at the moment. Instead of being grateful for the pitiful amount of gruel that he's being given, and knowing that he'll get a beating for it, at least he's brave enough to stand up and indicate it's not enough and he wants more. In my case I want more equality in direction of the characters be they straight, gay, bisexual or asexual. I don't know, FlippityFloppoty, I just like the drama. I would HATE it if they "turned Christian straight." But right now, I am just thrilled with the tension and dialogue. This is what love is all about. The tension between Christian and Olli is much more real (and full of love) than any smooching. However, I understand one thing: Why did that kiss between Christian and Rebecca have to be so long? Are the writers being interesting? (My hope) OR homophobic idiots (My fear) I think its the former. The acting and direction are quite clear to me: Christian is not in love with Rebecca. Nothing shows that. Nothing even hints at a love for kissing her as a woman. He's just all kinds of confused about Olli -- that's where the tension is. (And I'll keep my fingers crossed that that is true.)
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joanna
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Post by joanna on Apr 8, 2010 19:55:29 GMT -5
I'm just so dismayed, with what you've said Joanna. Why can't anyone just say that Thore was obviously relishing the rare opportunity he gets to suck face with a girl on screen rather than have to endure Jo's scruff. That combined with the director's shout out to Thore and Jasmine that as it's a hetero kiss they can take their time as they don't need to worry about upsetting certain elements of the viewing public. I feel even angrier comparing the kiss between Jo and Robert in yesterday's episode and the pecks (kiss is too big a word for them) between Christian and Jo in this episode. Come on folks, despite the fact that Christian is feeling guilty shouldn't the kisses between him and Jo have been more loving if not passionate. Loving looks are good yes, but loving looks and loving, lingering smooches would be heaps better. People might talk about the hot make out scenes between Christian and Jo, particularly the most recent one, to say what I'm saying is not true. But the scene lasted less than a minute and half of that time was intercut with Andi and David. Did they treat GreLu, HelAndi, LySeb and others this way? Not very often if at all I would think. I feel like Oliver Twist at the moment. Instead of being grateful for the pitiful amount of gruel that he's being given, and knowing that he'll get a beating for it, at least he's brave enough to stand up and indicate it's not enough and he wants more. In my case I want more equality in direction of the characters be they straight, gay, bisexual or asexual. I WAS giving a Chrolli 'shout out' in that post...and I WAS doing a lot of Christian/Rebecca 'shrugs' in it...but what I WAS NOT doing in it was saying that I agree with how that kiss was staged (and as I've said, I didn't think the chosen music was an appropriate fit for the kiss, either)...I DON'T. And it would have been FAR preferable to not have had Olli's "You're the love of my life", to Christian, overlaid with Rebecca's face....... ETA: And my post was basically taking a positive spin out of everything that's been presented on screen...Now, what any one of us wished/wish for outside of what we were/are 'given' is altogether another thing....
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thunderkat
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By Scissorknot
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Post by thunderkat on Apr 8, 2010 19:59:48 GMT -5
^ Funny. I saw the "love of my life line" as a something david wanted to say to rebecca but couldn't, and they cut to two people that could. I'm probably in the minority on that one.
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Post by JustaMannsMan on Apr 8, 2010 20:02:53 GMT -5
People might talk about the hot make out scenes between Christian and Jo, particularly the most recent one, to say what I'm saying is not true. But the scene lasted less than a minute and half of that time was intercut with Andi and David. Did they treat GreLu, HelAndi, LySeb and others this way? Not very often if at all I would think. Meh... a fella could also argue that the love scenes between Christian and Jo Olli are several orders of magnitude hotter than those of their straight compatriots. In fact, in the most recent one, especially when Christian rises up, pulls off his wifebeater and Jo Olli runs his hands up Christian's chest, I felt a little like Robert Oppenheimer at Trinity before the first ever test of an atom bomb, wondering if the atmosphere was just going to catch fire and incinerate the planet. YMMV
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kes
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Post by kes on Apr 8, 2010 20:03:26 GMT -5
^ Funny. I saw the "love of my life line" as a something david wanted to say to rebecca but couldn't, and they cut to two people that could. I'm probably in the minority on that one. I caught that, too. I think they meant it to be true for both couples. Olli so obviously meant it -- even if I'm not sure he meant that Christian was the best kisser in the Northern Hemisphere. That line was a cover-up: Olli is still thinking of Robert. But is Christian the love of his life? Yes. And I think the writers deliberately applied the line to David and Rebecca in order to reassure us that Dabecca is the endgame -- NOT Chribecca. It was nicely done.
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Post by chrolliforever7 on Apr 8, 2010 20:13:59 GMT -5
I'm gonna join the minority with you, thunderkat Not only because it's positive, but because I do believe that as well
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Post by Flippityfloppityflip on Apr 8, 2010 20:20:22 GMT -5
I don't know, FlippityFloppoty, I just like the drama. I would HATE it if they "turned Christian straight." But right now, I am just thrilled with the tension and dialogue. This is what love is all about. The tension between Christian and Olli is much more real (and full of love) than any smooching. However, I understand one thing: Why did that kiss between Christian and Rebecca have to be so long? Are the writers being interesting? (My hope) OR homophobic idiots (My fear) I think its the former. The acting and direction are quite clear to me: Christian is not in love with Rebecca. Nothing shows that. Nothing even hints at a love for kissing her as a woman. He's just all kinds of confused about Olli -- that's where the tension is. (And I'll keep my fingers crossed that that is true.) I didn't say it in my previous post, but I love all the drama as well Kes. Drama's good. I even don't mind Rebecca's part in all of this. The unrequited love of Rebecca and Robert is interesting to watch. The contrast to the snake like, sexy, devilish charm of Robert to Rebecca's Bambi in the headlights wistfullness is highly effective. I don't even see Rebecca as being particularly devious. It's Robert who wins prizes for that character trait. Robert dropped the little bomb about the kiss with Olli to purposely cause trouble. Rebecca never mentioned the kiss out right to Christian. She thought that Christian and Olli had resolved their issues over Robert, including the kiss. As someone said a while back Rebecca is re-enacting Olli's role, kiss and all, in the early days of his falling in love with Christian when he was in a relationship with Coco. Hopefully the writers won't be so unimaginative as to rehash a previous story line but will give it a twist instead. In this case that (after lots more drama) Rebecca will see the light and eventually realise that David is her soulmate whilst Christian and Olli will realise that despite the seductive charms of other people that nothing compares to Christian being in love with Olli and Olli being in love with Christian.
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Post by luckycharm on Apr 8, 2010 20:27:57 GMT -5
Olli worked on a cruise ship, I'm sure he checked out those southern hemisphere lips... ;D I'm trying really hard not to make a remark about Christian, Rebecca, and him checking out some southern hemisphere lips... *bites tongue* baaaaddd, luckycharm, baaaaaaaad.......
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Post by Flippityfloppityflip on Apr 8, 2010 20:36:03 GMT -5
People might talk about the hot make out scenes between Christian and Jo, particularly the most recent one, to say what I'm saying is not true. But the scene lasted less than a minute and half of that time was intercut with Andi and David. Did they treat GreLu, HelAndi, LySeb and others this way? Not very often if at all I would think. Meh... a fella could also argue that the love scenes between Christian and Jo Olli are several orders of magnitude hotter than those of their straight compatriots. In fact, in the most recent one, especially when Christian rises up, pulls off his wifebeater and Jo Olli runs his hands up Christian's chest, I felt a little like Robert Oppenheimer at Trinity before the first ever test of an atom bomb, wondering if the atmosphere was just going to catch fire and incinerate the planet. YMMV Oops, sorry about the reference to Jo instead of Olli. Must read through my posts more carefully before pressing enter. I did say it was a hot scene, all the hotter for Olli running his hands up Christians bare chest. Just saying it would have been even more delicious without cutting to Andi and Sven's toothsome grins. But at least it was shown yeah. Being the old fuddy duddy that I am, what does YMMV mean? And a shout out to Joanna. Point taken.
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thunderkat
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By Scissorknot
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Post by thunderkat on Apr 8, 2010 20:37:39 GMT -5
Olli worked on a cruise ship, I'm sure he checked out those southern hemisphere lips... ;D I'm trying really hard not to make a remark about Christian, Rebecca, and him checking out some southern hemisphere lips... *bites tongue* baaaaddd, luckycharm, baaaaaaaad....... Wow. you shocked me with that one. NICE!
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kes
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Post by kes on Apr 8, 2010 20:38:17 GMT -5
I don't know, FlippityFloppoty, I just like the drama. I would HATE it if they "turned Christian straight." But right now, I am just thrilled with the tension and dialogue. This is what love is all about. The tension between Christian and Olli is much more real (and full of love) than any smooching. However, I understand one thing: Why did that kiss between Christian and Rebecca have to be so long? Are the writers being interesting? (My hope) OR homophobic idiots (My fear) I think its the former. The acting and direction are quite clear to me: Christian is not in love with Rebecca. Nothing shows that. Nothing even hints at a love for kissing her as a woman. He's just all kinds of confused about Olli -- that's where the tension is. (And I'll keep my fingers crossed that that is true.) I didn't say it in my previous post, but I love all the drama as well Kes. Drama's good. I even don't mind Rebecca's part in all of this. The unrequited love of Rebecca and Robert is interesting to watch. The contrast to the snake like, sexy, devilish charm of Robert to Rebecca's Bambi in the headlights wistfullness is highly effective. I don't even see Rebecca as being particularly devious. It's Robert who wins prizes for that character trait. Robert dropped the little bomb about the kiss with Olli to purposely cause trouble. Rebecca never mentioned the kiss out right to Christian. She thought that Christian and Olli had resolved their issues over Robert, including the kiss. As someone said a while back Rebecca is re-enacting Olli's role, kiss and all, in the early days of his falling in love with Christian when he was in a relationship with Coco. Hopefully the writers won't be so unimaginative as to rehash a previous story line but will give it a twist instead. In this case that (after lots more drama) Rebecca will see the light and eventually realise that David is her soulmate whilst Christian and Olli will realise that despite the seductive charms of other people that nothing compares to Christian being in love with Olli and Olli being in love with Christian. I hope the same. One good thing: It's wonderful to read your posts again! I think your analysis above is outstanding.
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Post by Flippityfloppityflip on Apr 8, 2010 20:43:54 GMT -5
Thanks for the kind words Kes. Coming from a fab writer such as you, you have made my day!
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joanna
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Former Verbotene Liebe Champion.
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Post by joanna on Apr 8, 2010 20:48:04 GMT -5
Being the old fuddy duddy that I am, what does YMMV mean? Hope I'm okay to take this one .... 'Your mileage may vary'[/url]!
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thunderkat
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By Scissorknot
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Post by thunderkat on Apr 8, 2010 20:52:28 GMT -5
Well, Chrolli's story was a re-hash of Tom Ulli and Milli, and in if you squint and look sideways Chroldabecobert is a re-hash - a very convoluted rehash - of Tom Ulli and their straight girlfriend who fell in love w. Ulli. Nothing new under the sun. and YMMV means your mileage may vary. EG - Oh God I just about died when i saw that hot Rolli spanking scene, but YMMV.
Edit: Joanna you li'l speed demon!
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Post by Flippityfloppityflip on Apr 8, 2010 20:57:19 GMT -5
Being the old fuddy duddy that I am, what does YMMV mean? Hope I'm okay to take this one .... 'Your mileage may vary'[/url]![/quote] Thanks Joanna. I didn't have a clue.
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Post by rosebud on Apr 8, 2010 20:59:41 GMT -5
I don't know, FlippityFloppoty, I just like the drama. I would HATE it if they "turned Christian straight." But right now, I am just thrilled with the tension and dialogue. This is what love is all about. The tension between Christian and Olli is much more real (and full of love) than any smooching. However, I understand one thing: Why did that kiss between Christian and Rebecca have to be so long? Are the writers being interesting? (My hope) OR homophobic idiots (My fear) Flippityfloppityflip - I'm totally with you. I love the drama, hence, I have a hard time hating Rebecca and an even harder time hating Rob (hey, what can I say, I have a weak spot for bad boys). The way Rob looked Olli over at No Limits was classic! I too am bewildered by the length and emotion of the Chribecca kiss. It just seems so out of proportion to Rob/Olli's kiss. I like to think the writers intended that the emotion with which Christian kissed Rebecca stemmed from desperation instead of passion -desperation, jealously, fear, sadness. However, good point about writer intent. I don't recall the writers writing anything quite so passionate and prolonged for Christian and Olli. I think it's safe to assume that no matter how progressive Germany is they must still be sensitive to portraying the Chrolli storyline somewhat more "romantically" then "passionately." Otherwise, Olli would have give Christian a really passionate kiss before declaring him the "best kisser in the Northern Hemisphere" rather than that sideways, partial peck.
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joanna
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Former Verbotene Liebe Champion.
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Post by joanna on Apr 8, 2010 21:00:13 GMT -5
[/url]![/quote] Thanks Joanna. I didn't have a clue. [/quote] *whispers so no one else can hear her * Me, neither, at first!
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Nitty
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I will eat your brains and gain your knowledge...
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Post by Nitty on Apr 8, 2010 21:12:38 GMT -5
Being the old fuddy duddy that I am, what does YMMV mean? Hope I'm okay to take this one .... 'Your mileage may vary'[/url]![/quote] -Good to know. I thought it meant You Make Me Vomit, and I was all 'Hey, that's mean!' Thanks to everyone who brought us our Chrolli today!
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