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Post by katiem26 on Apr 8, 2010 14:21:00 GMT -5
I think I am going to go home and find the fullest bottle I have and try to drink away the image of Christian locking lips with Planky the Wonder Pony (thanks T-Kat!) or I might just have to find a very tall building and throw myself off of it. Is there such a thing as death by disgust, or maybe my synapses will just overheat, burst into flames and set my head on fire! THAT somehow seems preferable to having the images from the beginning of today's episode burned into my synapses! I think my retinas have been permanently seared! But, OHHHH the boys.....our beloveds. How can they so piss you off and then break your heart in the next scene? Lies, deceit, passion, sympathy, confusion, pain, tenderness....their ability to drag my emotions through the mud and over crushed glass and then gently bring them to rest in the middle of a sunny, wild-flower filled meadow... just continues to amaze and enchant me! THIS is why I continue to watch and watch and watch and watch. They've stolen my heart and I don't think I want it back. NOOOO dont throw yourself off a tall building throw her. Beautifully put and Im sure thats why we all remain loyal to them.
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realgal21
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Love! Love!! Love!!!
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Post by realgal21 on Apr 8, 2010 14:24:14 GMT -5
This is so heartbreaking. Olli is going to get his heart broken. Olli pushed away Rob while Christian pulled reb into the kiss even tho he had stopped he went and kissed her again. David he deserves so much better. Christian is being a complete asshole he knows very well that David is into Reb so it's no wonder that David gets huffed. I'm not liking Christian at all.
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SF
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Post by SF on Apr 8, 2010 14:30:37 GMT -5
can i just give props to max e. he's awesometastic. i have never loved and loathed a character so much all at once. when he says "just don't make me wait too long..." in his drawlingly (sexy) german accent (i didn't think it was possible for germans to 'drawl' in english), i don't know whether i want to lynch him or wrap myself around him and never let go. seriously he irritates me, creeps me out, makes me feel a bit nauseous on one hand and totally enchants me at the exact same moment on the other. i adore max for what he's doing for chrolli drama wise. if it was just chrolli and rebecca i think i might have gagged myself by now.
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maya
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Post by maya on Apr 8, 2010 14:33:00 GMT -5
But, OHHHH the boys.....our beloveds. How can they so piss you off and then break your heart in the next scene? Lies, deceit, passion, sympathy, confusion, pain, tenderness....their ability to drag my emotions through the mud and over crushed glass and then gently bring them to rest in the middle of a sunny, wild-flower filled meadow... just continues to amaze and enchant me! THIS is why I continue to watch and watch and watch and watch. They've stolen my heart and I don't think I want it back. Love it and it is so true... at least for some of us
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Post by chrolliforever7 on Apr 8, 2010 14:33:23 GMT -5
I agree realgal, i dont like Christian at all either. He's pissing me off royally right now. but you're also right, solomom, im not ever asking for my heart back, no matter how bad it gets with these boys I love them much too much...well, I love OLLI right now. Christian needs to redeem himself before I love him again
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Post by papperlapp on Apr 8, 2010 14:37:59 GMT -5
can i just give props to max e. he's awesometastic. i have never loved and loathed a character so much all at once. when he says "just don't make me wait too long..." in his drawlingly (sexy) german accent (i didn't think it was possible for germans to 'drawl' in english), i don't know whether i want to lynch him or wrap myself around him and never let go. seriously he irritates me, creeps me out, makes me feel a bit nauseous on one hand and totally enchants me at the exact same moment on the other. i adore max for what he's doing for chrolli drama wise. if it was just chrolli and rebecca i think i might have gagged myself by now. Ooooh, that's good that you wrote it like that, because I was thinking that this could have been a decent storyline without annoying Rebecca in it. Seriously, for long have we already had to endure her big dead eyes?? By now, she's not even good enough for "Poninguin" (credits go to cic from the official board for this awesome creation ;D ) But you put a positive spin on it: just imagine ONLY Rebecca and her pathetic crush... Thank God for Max!
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Post by chrolliforever7 on Apr 8, 2010 14:41:18 GMT -5
Ok on a positive note people???
THE DREADED KISS IS FINALLY OVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
God, i've been literally aching in wait for this fucking kiss, i'm so glad i dont have to wait for it anymore....
i'm pretty happy lol ;D
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kes
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Post by kes on Apr 8, 2010 14:41:24 GMT -5
can i just give props to max e. he's awesometastic. i have never loved and loathed a character so much all at once. when he says "just don't make me wait too long..." in his drawlingly (sexy) german accent (i didn't think it was possible for germans to 'drawl' in english), i don't know whether i want to lynch him or wrap myself around him and never let go. seriously he irritates me, creeps me out, makes me feel a bit nauseous on one hand and totally enchants me at the exact same moment on the other. i adore max for what he's doing for chrolli drama wise. if it was just chrolli and rebecca i think i might have gagged myself by now. You so hit the nail on the head! Max manages to make Rob sleezy and creepy and sexy -- how does one do that? I think I would have a harder time with all this if he were not in it. Also, the fact that Christian has started being so dishonest interests me: I want to give the writers the benefit of the doubt. Christian is changing -- just like (as Miriam noted) Olli is changing. Christian, in love, cannot be as moral as Christian was when he was not in love (and not with men -- whom he's meant to love, and most particularly, Olli). Christian is so in love with Olli that he has become possessive, and overwhelmed by his emotions. He can't keep to his "moral code" because HE Christian Mann, is actually overwhelmed by something. HE, the one who is supposed to be in control, who stuck with Dad even when Gregor left, who went to prison for his Dad. HE can't hold it together and is acting like a jerk to Rebecca, to David and most especially to Olli. I hope the writers really GET what they are doing here and follow-through with a plot that resolves these tensions. Boy, does Rob bring them out. He is Christian's worst nightmare, not only in being a romantic threat, but for representing everything Christian fears. Ironically, the more he hates Rob, the more he grows to resemble him.
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thunderkat
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Post by thunderkat on Apr 8, 2010 14:47:42 GMT -5
^Soapfan... When he said that.. it made me want to do things...inappropriate non-postable on-a-public-forum-but-appropriate-for- behind-closed-doors-with-handcuffs kinds of things...
So many great things about this episode. Mistress Vixen commented on this in the gen thread and I want to bring it here, David has all of a sudden, like in the course of a few episode gained emotional weight as a character. I refuse to believe it's because of that corny playstation andi montage, but somewhere along the way...I too have started to see David as less a tool to keep Chribecca apart, and more a player in the drama in his own right. And I want David to be happy, and for some reason, that means him ending up w. Rebecca. OK. So the BOYZ! oh. the boys were unbelievable today. Of course I have my undying devotion for Max E. more on that later (ps joanna can i get a cap of Rob undressing Olli w. his eyes as Olli looks at Chris? i love a good isosceles triangle..)
I was really pissed at Christian today, and technically he's gone around and done to Olli what Olli did to him. Kissed someone and concealed it. I just find it hard to believe that olli wasn't totally suspicious when Christian? of all people wants to just drop the issue? RED ALERT Olli. But Olli's too distracted trying to get back into his Mann's good graces. The acting today was, once again, phenomenal. Jo has bouncy nervousness down at and his every action SCREAMED overcompensating. It was like he was imitating what they were like during their summer of Love (AKA the summer Christian got sacked. ), but it was a pale shadow of those halcyon days of yore. and Jo just about killed me on the couch when he delivered the you are the love of my life line. The little crack in his voice...the tears (don't care if they're from a tearstick..they work). loved it all. But Thore...WOW. After he got caught, you could see it on his face. This man has a secret... a BIG one. I bet that you could take someone who hasn't watched the previous episode or ever watched Chrolli before and they could tell in a heartbeat that something is UP with the blonde dude. and its not the usual. I really liked today's ep, but how SHAMELESS is Rebecca just waltzing in after she kisses her supposed friend's boyfriend? Who does she think she is? Rob?! And Sven's little heartbreaky face...oh i wanted to reach into my monitor and pinch his little cheeks! I like that he (from what I can tell) basically stood up to Christian. But it's kind of a "fuck you" to continuity for Christian to seem to not understand where david is coming from. i've rambled enough. I'm off to drool over max watch again
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thunderkat
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Post by thunderkat on Apr 8, 2010 14:53:47 GMT -5
can i just give props to max e. he's awesometastic. i have never loved and loathed a character so much all at once. when he says "just don't make me wait too long..." in his drawlingly (sexy) german accent (i didn't think it was possible for germans to 'drawl' in english), i don't know whether i want to lynch him or wrap myself around him and never let go. seriously he irritates me, creeps me out, makes me feel a bit nauseous on one hand and totally enchants me at the exact same moment on the other. i adore max for what he's doing for chrolli drama wise. if it was just chrolli and rebecca i think i might have gagged myself by now. You so hit the nail on the head! Max manages to make Rob sleezy and creepy and sexy -- how does one do that? I think I would have a harder time with all this if he were not in it. Also, the fact that Christian has started being so dishonest interests me: I want to give the writers the benefit of the doubt. Christian is changing -- just like (as Miriam noted) Olli is changing. Christian, in love, cannot be as moral as Christian was when he was not in love (and not with men -- whom he's meant to love, and most particularly, Olli). Christian is so in love with Olli that he has become possessive, and overwhelmed by his emotions. He can't keep to his "moral code" because HE Christian Mann, is actually overwhelmed by something. HE, the one who is supposed to be in control, who stuck with Dad even when Gregor left, who went to prison for his Dad. HE can't hold it together and is acting like a jerk to Rebecca, to David and most especially to Olli. I hope the writers really GET what they are doing here and follow-through with a plot that resolves these tensions. Boy, does Rob bring them out. He is Christian's worst nightmare, not only in being a romantic threat, but for representing everything Christian fears. Ironically, the more he hates Rob, the more he grows to resemble him. Well said Kes. Someone somewhere else called Christian impulsive and the kiss w. Rebecca as a symptom of this larger impulsivity. I was thinking about it on the train..where I do most of my fantasizing about Rob thinking. This impulsivity exists ONLY in regards to Olli. From the beginning Christian said that Olli has the ability to make him see REd, and this has consistently led to some really interesting consequences for Christian: 1. Spontaneously kisses Olli after the chatroom 2. Attacks rick in the club 3. Comes out in front of God and everyone in the boxing ring 4. Tries to take a bat to Axel Grossman's face 5. Attacks a (not so innocent) food critic etc etc. I think that Christian really is a self possessed think first then act kind of guy, but Olli brings out the best AND worst in him. Right now we're seeing the worst, but it doesn't mean it wasn't always there....
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lyra85
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Post by lyra85 on Apr 8, 2010 14:58:58 GMT -5
If I didn't want them so much to stay together I would think Olli is desperately trying to keep them together while they are pretty obviously drifting apart. Maybe you did something wrong Oliver!! Team Christian yet.
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SF
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Post by SF on Apr 8, 2010 15:02:14 GMT -5
can i just give props to max e. he's awesometastic. i have never loved and loathed a character so much all at once. when he says "just don't make me wait too long..." in his drawlingly (sexy) german accent (i didn't think it was possible for germans to 'drawl' in english), i don't know whether i want to lynch him or wrap myself around him and never let go. seriously he irritates me, creeps me out, makes me feel a bit nauseous on one hand and totally enchants me at the exact same moment on the other. i adore max for what he's doing for chrolli drama wise. if it was just chrolli and rebecca i think i might have gagged myself by now. You so hit the nail on the head! Max manages to make Rob sleezy and creepy and sexy -- how does one do that? I think I would have a harder time with all this if he were not in it. Also, the fact that Christian has started being so dishonest interests me: I want to give the writers the benefit of the doubt. Christian is changing -- just like (as Miriam noted) Olli is changing. Christian, in love, cannot be as moral as Christian was when he was not in love (and not with men -- whom he's meant to love, and most particularly, Olli). Christian is so in love with Olli that he has become possessive, and overwhelmed by his emotions. He can't keep to his "moral code" because HE Christian Mann, is actually overwhelmed by something. HE, the one who is supposed to be in control, who stuck with Dad even when Gregor left, who went to prison for his Dad. HE can't hold it together and is acting like a jerk to Rebecca, to David and most especially to Olli. I hope the writers really GET what they are doing here and follow-through with a plot that resolves these tensions. Boy, does Rob bring them out. He is Christian's worst nightmare, not only in being a romantic threat, but for representing everything Christian fears. Ironically, the more he hates Rob, the more he grows to resemble him. you know i have a theory that christian hates rob - because yeah he's a bad person, and drugs blah blah blah. but also because he represents some things christian wishes he could be, but can't bring himself to - because of his morals and because of his background. rob is totally relaxed with who he is. to the point of being sleazy. and christian took so long to accept he was with olli, and personally i still think he doesn't flaunt his sexuality even if he's comfy with who he is now. he's into parties and he understands that side of olli's world, christian cannot understand or put up with any of that, he can't even sit out one party for his bf - so he will never share those experiences with him, and olli's greatest professional triumphs will always be slightly removed from christian - which i think is important and upsetting to him because he always involves olli in all his career triumphs, he thinks it's important to have his fella there with him. rob says what he thinks and doesn't care if he hurts people. christian tends to bottle stuff up and go off on his own if people upset him, he broods and then explodes - whether rob is a steady stream of gut wrenching honesty. and much to christian's bewilderment probably, people like olli let him get away with it - and laugh it off, even when he's really offensive. rob gets off the hook for drug dealing. the law hasn't caught up with him. whether christian has wrongly come face to face with long arms of the law on two seperate occasions - and the shoplifting. he always gets caught out, even if it's not his fault. whether rob has a laissez-faire attitude to being a honorable citizen and he totally slides his way through life totally unchecked. and olli adores the older, intriguing, exciting rob - and christian as we saw yesterday is wondering if he's enough to keep someone like olli interested, when he's a younger, inexperienced, stable boy. and loads of other stuff. but i think secretly christian fears rob, because rob has a lot of qualities which would make christian's life all the smoother and easy - but he doesn't have or doesn't want because he's so full of morals and 'goodness'. i think he's jealous.
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thunderkat
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Post by thunderkat on Apr 8, 2010 15:09:38 GMT -5
hmm. watching it again i got a whole new read on Rob's "just don't make me wait too long" He's talking about not waiting too long to hook up with Olli, not about waiting too long to resume their meeting. God rob. I just... I just love you so much.
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Post by chrolliforever7 on Apr 8, 2010 15:11:50 GMT -5
Yah, Christian's VERY jealous of Rob. He's threatened by him! Rob's charming, handsome, smooth as silk and he knows that Olli idolizes him... Yesterday Christian wondered if he wasn't good enough for Olli anymore becauseeee of his insecurity about Rob. Its so sad, and he has no reason to feel threatened..I mean, look at all the beautiful things Olli said to Christian today!!!! And yet, he's still jealous. Christian needs to chill a little...
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thunderkat
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Post by thunderkat on Apr 8, 2010 15:16:26 GMT -5
^ I think Christian knows more than anyone how little value words can have. He was still telling Coco he loved her and promising to move to India even as he fell deeper and deeper in love with Olli. What's to guarantee that Olli's not saying these things out of familiarity like Christian was? I think Christian's suspicious, because he's been there before, consumed with desire for an older more worldly man, even though he's already in a relationship. Deja vu all over again.
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Post by chrolliforever7 on Apr 8, 2010 15:20:45 GMT -5
Good point, thunderkat. But if Olli were to tell me those things and look at me that way, I dont think theres any way for me not to believe him... butttt I guess Christian needs more convincing?? Like getting rid of Rob completely?
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SF
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Post by SF on Apr 8, 2010 15:21:26 GMT -5
interesting tkat - so you think christian is slightly projecting himself onto olli and olli's bewitching powers over him onto (the slightly bewitching himself) rob?!
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kes
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Post by kes on Apr 8, 2010 15:30:43 GMT -5
Soapfan, Thunderkat, Chrollifan:
I adore this analysis. I haven't felt so happy to be analyzing character for months.
Soapfan: You really get to some subtlety here -- I hadn't thought about Christian's own experiences with the law.
This is great.
Thunderkat: I need to watch the clip again, to get Rob's intonation.
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kes
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Without community, there is no liberation. Audre Lorde
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Post by kes on Apr 8, 2010 15:39:16 GMT -5
^ Soapfan... When he said that.. it made me want to do things...inappropriate non-postable on-a-public-forum-but-appropriate-for- behind-closed-doors-with-handcuffs kinds of things... So many great things about this episode. Mistress Vixen commented on this in the gen thread and I want to bring it here, David has all of a sudden, like in the course of a few episode gained emotional weight as a character. I refuse to believe it's because of that corny playstation andi montage, but somewhere along the way...I too have started to see David as less a tool to keep Chribecca apart, and more a player in the drama in his own right. And I want David to be happy, and for some reason, that means him ending up w. Rebecca. OK. So the BOYZ! oh. the boys were unbelievable today. Of course I have my undying devotion for Max E. more on that later (ps joanna can i get a cap of Rob undressing Olli w. his eyes as Olli looks at Chris? i love a good isosceles triangle..) I was really pissed at Christian today, and technically he's gone around and done to Olli what Olli did to him. Kissed someone and concealed it. I just find it hard to believe that olli wasn't totally suspicious when Christian? of all people wants to just drop the issue? RED ALERT Olli. But Olli's too distracted trying to get back into his Mann's good graces. The acting today was, once again, phenomenal. Jo has bouncy nervousness down at and his every action SCREAMED overcompensating. It was like he was imitating what they were like during their summer of Love (AKA the summer Christian got sacked. ), but it was a pale shadow of those halcyon days of yore. and Jo just about killed me on the couch when he delivered the you are the love of my life line. The little crack in his voice...the tears (don't care if they're from a tearstick..they work). loved it all. But Thore...WOW. After he got caught, you could see it on his face. This man has a secret... a BIG one. I bet that you could take someone who hasn't watched the previous episode or ever watched Chrolli before and they could tell in a heartbeat that something is UP with the blonde dude. and its not the usual. I really liked today's ep, but how SHAMELESS is Rebecca just waltzing in after she kisses her supposed friend's boyfriend? Who does she think she is? Rob?! And Sven's little heartbreaky face...oh i wanted to reach into my monitor and pinch his little cheeks! I like that he (from what I can tell) basically stood up to Christian. But it's kind of a "fuck you" to continuity for Christian to seem to not understand where david is coming from. i've rambled enough. I'm off to drool over max watch again You made me think of something: I thought Christian was devious today -- I mean the way addicts are devious when they lie. Thore really acted it well. He was angry that David caught him, not because he felt he was doing something wrong, but because he didn't want to get caught. Here I see unresolved father issues. His father was an addict, and probably able to lie with the best of them. And even Christian can do it -- And be peevish, like Olli. This was new today: Christian being a bit peevish and mischevious, just as Olli can be. I love it. And I love Max E. Rebecca: I can't blame her. She's such a goof, and kind of sweet for it. To give Fieler credit, she has layed the groundwork: Helena coming back, Rebecca's career falling apart, and subtle things -- like the way she constantly overdresses. She can't stand herself and is immature. Again, a kid. But a kid who has the ability to be strong, to some degree, perhaps in a relationship with someone who "gets" her like David. Christian does not "get" her in the least. He is using her just as his brother used women. I really think Chrisitan is gay and not bisexual. I don't think women are "real" to him as lovers the way men are, the way Olli is. I haven't seen the early Coco days, but what I have seen is a man who is love with Olli, and terrified of his own sexuality. He is "out and proud" but sometimes it feels like a defense -- a way to fend off attack before it happens. Strangely, it seems a way to keep men at a distance. I am not quite sure how -- but it feels that way. I wish they would explore Christian having an affair with another man. That would really be incredible.
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joanna
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Post by joanna on Apr 8, 2010 15:40:00 GMT -5
Caps are now up in the thread opener. Sorry for the delay! VL 8 APRIL 2010 CAPS ALBUM[/url] The book's title translates as' Dressage Riding'.
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Post by katiem26 on Apr 8, 2010 15:42:03 GMT -5
Wow like Kes i love this analysing the characters and its great to have such an indepth character as Rob. I must admit when i emailed I did ask if Max could stay. I love how he has changed and brought out different sides of Olli and Christian. Some of it is horrible to watch but for the actors it must be great to play.
I havnt been watching as long as most of you and love to see and read how you know the characters so well. Thank you I relish how much you all adore the love between these two and will protect it against any interlopers.
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Post by chrolliforever7 on Apr 8, 2010 15:46:37 GMT -5
I really think Chrisitan is gay and not bisexual. I don't think women are "real" to him as lovers the way men are, the way Olli is. I haven't seen the early Coco days, but what I have seen is a man who is love with Olli, and terrified of his own sexuality. wow I love that you said this, cuz its sooo true..and if you do go back and watch the coco days, you will see that it wasn't real love between them. It was never serious....it was more like puppy love in a way..or maybe even just attraction...but i couldnt agree more, Chrisitan's never been this serious before with anyone, i dont think he could get that way with a woman...i think he's full out gay too
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joanna
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Post by joanna on Apr 8, 2010 16:17:08 GMT -5
(ps joanna can i get a cap of Rob undressing Olli w. his eyes as Olli looks at Chris? i love a good isosceles triangle... Just playing board catch up...It's cap number 54 in my set...but...just for you ...
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Post by pedronrf on Apr 8, 2010 17:26:31 GMT -5
You made me think of something: I thought Christian was devious today -- I mean the way addicts are devious when they lie. Thore really acted it well. He was angry that David caught him, not because he felt he was doing something wrong, but because he didn't want to get caught. Here I see unresolved father issues. His father was an addict, and probably able to lie with the best of them. And even Christian can do it -- And be peevish, like Olli. This was new today: Christian being a bit peevish and mischevious, just as Olli can be. I love it. And I love Max E. Rebecca: I can't blame her. She's such a goof, and kind of sweet for it. To give Fieler credit, she has layed the groundwork: Helena coming back, Rebecca's career falling apart, and subtle things -- like the way she constantly overdresses. She can't stand herself and is immature. Again, a kid. But a kid who has the ability to be strong, to some degree, perhaps in a relationship with someone who "gets" her like David. Christian does not "get" her in the least. He is using her just as his brother used women. I really think Chrisitan is gay and not bisexual. I don't think women are "real" to him as lovers the way men are, the way Olli is. I haven't seen the early Coco days, but what I have seen is a man who is love with Olli, and terrified of his own sexuality. He is "out and proud" but sometimes it feels like a defense -- a way to fend off attack before it happens. Strangely, it seems a way to keep men at a distance. I am not quite sure how -- but it feels that way. I wish they would explore Christian having an affair with another man. That would really be incredible. May I just say: Intelectual SQUEEEE Some time ago when I finished seeing the previous episodes and Chrolli was dead in the water I thought a bit about how they could their wonderful story to go on, after the universal coming out storyline, and my idea was a trio. And I don't ,mean a threesome, I mean a real trio, 3 men in love with each other. You see even though love its the same whether gay or straight, there are differences, and one of them is that if another man comes along, both members of the couple can be interested in him. I never had one and I don't know any real trios working, just one couple that's looking to add one more, but any one who's been to a gay "dating" (yes, it's a euphemism) sites knows there's always the category "couples looking for a third for fun &/or more". I always thought the right way to do it is to have Christian fall in love with the guy first, he's the character that's got more to learn from that experience, right now he's only been with Ollie. He may even think he just loves Ollie, not men in general, so that would be the real good story for me, Christian finding out what being gay means to him. Allas, it was not to be, so I was really disappointed when Christian got Rebecca and Jo got Rob.
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joanna
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Post by joanna on Apr 8, 2010 17:31:53 GMT -5
The thing is, VL can linger on the kissing with Christian and Rebecca because that's ALL there is between them...the empty physical. It's what they're limited to because there is no real emotional connection between them, no real FEELINGS from Christian, no heart skipping a beat at the core of things...but he DOES have that sort of connection with Olli...a soulmates connection. Christian and Olli share SO more than Christian and Rebecca would ever be able to. There just is NO favourable comparison where Christian/Olli and Christian/Rebecca are concerned. Christian and Olli are so much more than a 'sad empty snog'. They've shown us so often that deeper bond they share that goes so far beyond the physical, it's just pure magic. There's nothing deeper between Christian and Rebecca than a snog. Rebecca is just sort of 'there'. With kisses between Christian and Olli, it's quality over quantity! And it's not just only an physical act here, between Christian and Rebecca, but not even one with 'feelings' from Christian side. It's completely NOTHING...whereas Christian and Olli SHOW us, time and time again, that they are completely EVERYTHING. :)x
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