md1347
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Post by md1347 on Sept 9, 2010 19:59:07 GMT -5
In the current storyline. I would say that Luke was a prop for Reid. It was Reid who interacted with people. Luke had some contact but it was always centered around Reid, mostly and it was Luke who followed Reid around. In essence, he was Noah to Reid's Luke.
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Post by caitlinp on Sept 9, 2010 21:00:14 GMT -5
I think that Reid was the main character in the storyline, and that for the early part of the storyline that it was told mainly from Reid's point of view but Luke did play a very active role in the story. We saw Luke's point of view, what he wanted, and how he went about getting what he wanted, so it was not a one sided situation like we had in many of the Luke and Noah storylines, where we never got Noah's side of the story.
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LadyArmand
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Post by LadyArmand on Sept 9, 2010 21:56:34 GMT -5
I just want to clear up the issue over Noah being a prop. Reid and Luke were used as props during the last few weeks in regard to Chris and Katie. A prop is someone who's motivations aren't made clear, mainly because they don't have any, and who doesn't take an active role in a storyline. Usually they just appear to do something that will move the storyline forward. As I said, we can look through this thread and find a lot of posts from fans of Noah who have been upset for years that that this was his role. I was never a huge fan of Luke and Noah for this reason, because it just drove home the point that the producers were not invested in the couple. If they had been, Noah would have been fleshed out, Jake would have been put on contract, Noah would have interacted with other people besides Luke, and Noah would have been given his own storylines. Again the same can be said of any soap character at any given time in that character’s life on the show. Which I’ve said before and very succinctly I thought. Right now it seems to me for you it’s about proving a point that I conceded to a while back. Which again gives rise (from my perspective) to your motivations in pointing it out again. I get that you don’t like Noah, I get that you think he’s wooden and one dimensional. However it changes nothing in the grand scheme of things. Reid is still dead. Noah still hasn’t left for LA (because he wants to be there for his friend), Luke is still grieving, ATWT is still ending September 17th . And the real losers in this whole situation are the writers who couldn’t write their way out of a wet paper bag with holes in it.
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HQ75
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Post by HQ75 on Sept 9, 2010 22:44:07 GMT -5
I had no issue with Noah's actions today regarding Luke. But I can understand your thoughts about some views on the character and not taking them seriously because they aren't fans of the character. On the flip side, I have a hard time with many of the views here regarding Noah because they come from a place of complete and utter love for the character and not a balanced, nuanced view of him or even one that seems him as a possibly flawed person. I guess though that's why there's such polarizing views of him. But I personally feel like we all talk about all of the characters flaws all the time. Even some of us who are admitted die-hard Noah fans KNOW he's flawed and describe in great detail, repeatedly what those flaws are in the course of also talking about his attributes and what we want for the characters. I guess I've just NEVER seen that kind of one-sided Noah fan here on TGODT in the 3 years I've been here. I don't read other message boards so maybe there is a lot more lack of nuanced observation or objectivity when it comes to Noah, Luke and Reid but my experience of THIS board is that folks tend to be clear-eyed with regard to the characters (Noah being no exception). I'm probably one of the more vocal fans of Noah but I've listed his flaws so many times it out to be a golden plaque in TGODT Hall of Fame. I think characters HAVE to have flaws in order to make them relatable and more realistic and 3-dimensional. There may be a few exceptions of folks who are just completely unable to hear anything bad ever about a character they like but I feel like I could count them on 1 hand when it comes to TGODT regular contributor since I've been watching NUKE. That's why I was curious when you said some folks think Noah can do no wrong. I honestly haven't seen anyone here who THINKS that or VOICES that opinion about Noah. I'm sure we could all name each of the characters faults with great gusto (Luke, Reid and Noah) but obviously that's not all there is to them and while some of us may like a particular character more than another, we're all still watching so SOMETHING must be compelling us whether we like the actually storyline and how it's playing out or not. To the extent that there are people who disliked Reid (I am not one of them) it doesn't seemed to have stopped folks here at TGODT from watching (despite what others on other boards have done). At this stage of the game, it just feels weird for folks to still be trying to prove who is better for Luke (Noah or Reid ) or who's fault the breakup was (Luke or Noah) or who's the worse actor, best kisser, etc. Obviously there is some stuff we're all not ever going to agree upon but as of today we have one gay character dead and gone, and only two left (the original two in terms of my viewing of ATWT) . I really liked the scenes between Luke and Noah today. Shipping aside, they felt real and rang true and for the first time in WEEKS neither Luke nor Noah were just a prop for someone else's story. Their conversation was so perfectly encapsulating of who they are in the world and who they are to each other. I think at some point we just have to be willing to accept that these characters are who they are and aren't going to radically change between now and the end of the series and somehow let bygones be bygones (particularly amongst viewers here at TGODT where the discourse tends to be a million times less inflammatory and one-sided than other board) From where I'm standing, all three gay characters are messed up, broken, damaged men to some extent (just in different ways, with different coping mechanisms and skill sets to deal with life and navigate their own issues) We can now see where some of Reid's baggage stems from (hello uncle Angus) and much like with Noah and Luke, it's clear that Reid didn't just wake up one morning as a hot mess of issues. His upbringing and life previous to Oakdale made him who he is just like Noah and much like with Luke. Apparently crazy, mean over-bearing father figure is in the water.
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Post by anthonyl on Sept 9, 2010 23:04:40 GMT -5
To me they were really awkward in the writing and the acting.... I've seen both actors do better work and the writing was poor. I was really disappointed. I would have liked to have felt something because there was a lot of emotion there but I didn't feel much of anything.
The only thing I did like or rather find effective was Luke getting upset because Reid went out and got himself killed instead of coming back to him. Though Noah's reaction..... "It's not your fault" made me wonder if something was cut or dialogue was missed though.
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Post by caitlinp on Sept 10, 2010 8:25:10 GMT -5
I think Noah was supposed to be awkward, it made sense that he would be awkward in the scene, since he didn't want to be there, and he didn't know what to say.
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md1347
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Post by md1347 on Sept 10, 2010 12:03:05 GMT -5
I was going to reply but decided not too. No matter what Noah does, it just isn't good enough for some people. Sorry, but that's what it comes across as. I'm just not going to bother. Lets just agree to disagree and be done with it.
There is one show left with Nuke. I'm going to enjoy it and come up with my own feeling about what it means because I already know what happens. I've known what happens for months now. Just like I knew about Reid dying. Lets just respect each other right to believe what we want to believe and leave it at that.
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Post by anthonyl on Sept 10, 2010 12:50:39 GMT -5
Well, it wasn't a comment on Noah as a character, not at all. It was a comment on the writing and the acting as I said. Nothing more, nothing less.
And yes, we've all known how it was going to end for months. We all knew no one would come away happy. And I think people will be even more pissed when the final show airs on Friday.
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cheerios
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Post by cheerios on Sept 10, 2010 13:40:27 GMT -5
I just feel bad for Jake, after all these years on the show and all the bad story lines. That this is how everything ends with his character.
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LadyArmand
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Post by LadyArmand on Sept 10, 2010 14:47:17 GMT -5
I don’t know where anyone got the idea that Noah didn’t want to be there with Luke yesterday. That’s not what I got from him at all. If he didn’t want to be there the plain and simple fact is he wouldn’t have been there. I believe he was a little awkward as well, but more so because of how he felt about Reid, and his rather justified ambivalence about whether or not he should even be there with Luke (because perhaps I don‘t know he might have thought he could make things worse for Luke, just a thought) rather than now wanting to be there for Luke. I know people don’t like Noah and it like pulling teeth to get some to give the man any credit for anything. But let’s be reasonable. Or at least attempt to be. I understand shipperiness (having been a shipper for a long time for several different pairings) but it also helps to have a little perspective.
No pairing is the be all and end all of anything. No matter how much they are loved they have faults they make foibles. What has always astounded me however is some fans insistence on bashing (because no matter how you look at it that‘s what it boils down to, no matter how eloquently you phrase it you know, if you tell the truth to yourself at least that bashing is what you’re doing, then hiding behind “it’s just your opinion“. Yes it‘s your opinion and you‘re more than entitled to it, but be honest as to what you are doing when you give it.) one character to elevate another. It’s like those who crucify Noah for everything he does, doesn’t do or intended to do, just so by comparison Reid is obviously the better man for Luke. Or vise versa. Seriously it’s comparing apples to oranges. These are two completely different men from two completely different backgrounds and approaches to life.
Luke obviously saw something redeeming in both men that made him fall in love with them. Instead of giving each man credit for that some would rather rip the other apart to bolster their argument as to why Luke should or shouldn’t end up with that person.
No need to fret however because the writers made the choice for you. Luke can’t end up with Reid because he’s dead. And I doubt highly he’ll end up with Noah. So there you go no one from either camp “wins”. And at this point I find that to be poetic justice considering all of the nastiness that has transpired between both sets of fans.
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HQ75
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Post by HQ75 on Sept 10, 2010 16:26:06 GMT -5
I don’t know where anyone got the idea that Noah didn’t want to be there with Luke yesterday. That’s not what I got from him at all. If he didn’t want to be there the plain and simple fact is he wouldn’t have been there. I believe he was a little awkward as well, but more so because of how he felt about Reid, and his rather justified ambivalence about whether or not he should even be there with Luke (because perhaps I don‘t know he might have thought he could make things worse for Luke, just a thought) rather than now wanting to be there for Luke. I know people don’t like Noah and it like pulling teeth to get some to give the man any credit for anything. But let’s be reasonable. Or at least attempt to be.
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Post by Zathras on Sept 10, 2010 19:13:48 GMT -5
I agree ... I don't think it was a case of "Noah didn't want to be there," but, rather, he felt mixed emotions about it. Considering how he felt about Luke and Reid (together and independently), I think it's understandable that he would be hearing things he didn't necessarily want to hear. Which made it uncomfortable for him. But he was there to give Luke a shoulder to lean on, so he did his best to put them aside and prod Luke to say what was really on his mind - to help him let his emotions out. Even though it meant hearing the guy he loves grieving for someone else.
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HQ75
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Post by HQ75 on Sept 11, 2010 14:34:13 GMT -5
OMG. I'm soooooo ranty right now. I don't know what put a fire in my belly all-of-a-sudden (maybe watching Spring 2009 of NUKE again which I'm currently doing)
I made the mistake of reading the damn spoiler. Why? Why did I do that?
It is absolutely disgusting that ATWT raised hell and high water to get every single other straight couple together, I MEAN EVERY LAST PERSON ON ATWT except Ethan and 2 of the teens are either back together, getting married, celebrating their recent marriage, happily welcoming a baby or leaving town together happy as pigs in slop.
Why do people think this is better than Luke being with Noah? Seriously? Who could prefer this ending?
This situation with Luke is just blatant homophobia. I'M CALLING IT.
I've rarely leveled that accusation ATWT but there is no NO WAY that anyone (I don't care who you're shipping) could think Luke is better off alone when even Holden and Lily and Lucinda and John are freaking reconnecting after everything they've been through together and separately.
They are evening having highlight ---> Molly make peace with Holden and Rosanna/Gabrielle make peace with Craig to wrap those two storylines up nicely. It's pathetic and for the first time I really wished Gay and Gay-Friendly folks HAD boycotted P&G products.
This is NO WAY TO END SHOW! Yes I love NUKE, unequivocally.
But I would have settled for Luke and Reid being together if I had to rather than this gross, heterosexist, homophobic, fracked-up beyond belief ending for Luke, Noah and Reid.
OH My GAGA!! If they didn't want Luke and Noah together, they could have sent Noah off to LA with Richard or Tony or some other day player gay they dragged of the streets of NYC.
SHOULDA, COULDA, WOULDA, I know! But it just kinda hit me how mad I am at TPTB of this damn show.
I can't believe people think THIS is better? "Luke should be alone to mourn his love" WHAT? WHEN? FOR HOW LONG? WHY? The show is over.
It's not like we'll get to SEE Luke mourning so why does he need to be left miserable and alone still clinging to his family for solace and feeling lonely and desperate JUST LIKE HE WAS 3 FRAKING YEARS AGO WHEN I STARTED WATCHING THIS BLASTED SHOW!
There is no reason in the storyline for Luke to be alone. None. There is no logic, no sense, no justification.
If they could manage to get jump through hoops and contorting the writing to bring highlight --->[CarJack[/b][/color] together again you're telling me they really couldn't figure out how to write a storyline that didn't have Luke highlight ---> ending the show making some lame promise to maybe/possible/win-pigs-fly visit Noah in LA and then pathetically bonding with Chris because his dead lover's heart is allowing Chris to LIVE?
So what is Luke going to do now? Friend-stalk Chris for the rest of his life? The same gross, selfish, unethical Chris who slept with his brother's fiance (Allison) the night before his brother's wedding?
Pathetic.
Instead of adding fuel to the shipping wars this past 3 months, every single gay Soap re-capper and blogger and newspaper writer (because lets be real, most of them are gay) should have been RAILING AGAINST THE HOMOPHOBIA of this ending for Luke, Noah and Reid and calling it what it is. That should have been the buzz (just like the kissing ban). It should have marred the ending of ATWT and taken over the nostalgia because it's bigotry and hyposcrisy and from a legacy standpoint I can't believe ATWT would want to go down like that.
ESS should not have been the only one talking about it THIS summer. What do the rest of the actors have to lose? P&G is getting out of the tv business and no other producer is going to care about who critiques ATWT but it would have been good for the viewers and fans to hear the actors and writer speaking out, not just one, lone non-contracted relatively new actor to the show.
Blatant pandering to conservative anti-gay viewers and financial interests.
P&G needs its arse kicked six ways to Sunday.
RANT OVER
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Post by Gen of Montreal on Sept 11, 2010 23:37:49 GMT -5
Instead of adding fuel to the shipping wars this past 3 months, every single gay Soap re-capper and blogger and newspaper writer (because lets be real, most of them are gay) should have been RAILING AGAINST THE HOMOPHOBIA of this ending for Luke, Noah and Reid and calling it what it is. That should have been the buzz (just like the kissing ban). It should have marred the ending of ATWT and taken over the nostalgia because it's bigotry and hyposcrisy and from a legacy standpoint I can't believe ATWT would want to go down like that. Had you read spoiler discussions for the last few months or even other websites, AE for example, or comments on the YouTube channels other than LukeVanFAn, you would have noticed the anger and the disbelief.
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HQ75
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Post by HQ75 on Sept 12, 2010 6:39:35 GMT -5
Instead of adding fuel to the shipping wars this past 3 months, every single gay Soap re-capper and blogger and newspaper writer (because lets be real, most of them are gay) should have been RAILING AGAINST THE HOMOPHOBIA of this ending for Luke, Noah and Reid and calling it what it is. That should have been the buzz (just like the kissing ban). It should have marred the ending of ATWT and taken over the nostalgia because it's bigotry and hyposcrisy and from a legacy standpoint I can't believe ATWT would want to go down like that. Had you read spoiler discussions for the last few months or even other websites, AE for example, or comments on the YouTube channels other than LukeVanFAn, you would have noticed the anger and the disbelief. It's not disbelief and I don't like to be spoiled or read spoilers. I happen to read that one by accident because I was in the wrong thread. Either way, I would have been JUST as angry, only sooner. After 3 years of investing my time, I'm entitled to my anger. I'm GLAD that LukeVanFan doesn't allow spoilers in his comments because it SUCKS for people who don't want to be spoiled and it's so unfair that folks don't appreciate that. I don't want to know what's going to happen on a show before it happens (even if I'm not going to like it). I totally support how LukeVanFan runs his channel. It's his hard work so it's his choice. ANYWAY, Back to ATWT's stupid producers and their mind-numbing homophobia.
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Post by anthonyl on Sept 12, 2010 7:39:49 GMT -5
Well, his disabling comments on his channel have nothing to do with spoilers. He just didn't like all the Reid love people kept posting. Which is fine as it is his channel, but let's keep it real.
But I gotta say I'm surprised that you didn't come across this info sooner as everybody has been talking about it. But I guess if you're avoiding spoilers it's easy enough to do.
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HQ75
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Post by HQ75 on Sept 12, 2010 9:25:19 GMT -5
ADL you have your own Youtube channel with its own community ethos where folks can do and say what they like.
LukeVanFan is not the only channel owner to have rules about how they want folks to behave in the channel comments and it is their right to do so. You are jwrong about the spoilers. They were all up and through the comments and he gave PLENTY of warnings, asking folks to stop REPEATEDLY. Certain commentors basically thumbed their nose at him and others followed their lead like lemmings ( ignoring his requests.) If it was just about Reid or LuRe love, he would have simply erased all the past comments that were loving of Reid. He didn't. They are all still there up to the point where he stopped all comments.
Everything is not a conspiracy to keep folks from loving Reid Oliver. There are 5, count them, 5 other channels on Youtube that document the story of Luke, Reid and Noah. There is even one devoted just to Reid Oliver.
LukeVanfan doesn't have to like him or love him as a character any more than he has to love or like Meg or Carly or Paul or any other character (and he has a right to say as much on his own channel).
LukeVanFan was the one who got the endless complaints from others who wanted to read the comments without being spoiled. That's not a lot to ask.
AT ANY RTE, what's done is done. This is the Noah/Luke Discussion Thread.
If you have something to say to LukeVanFan maybe you should do it directly.
As another channel owner that follows ATWT, it hardly seems good form for you to talk trash about him on a message thread where he doesn't even participate. Seriously, does everything have to be conspiracies and fights and accusations?
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Post by anthonyl on Sept 12, 2010 9:48:01 GMT -5
I thought of replying to this, but instead I will simply not bother and move on......
I agree. But the other actors have never been vocal about the behind the scenes mess at that show. ESS is the only one involved in the story that has. Well, Terri C has and so did Austin Peck when he was on the show. But the others remain quiet and speak the party line.
I think Noah got the best deal out of everybody. He got his sight back and he gets to go and make movies. Sure he lost Luke and they may never be together, but he is young and good looking. I don't think he'd have any trouble meeting a new guy in a city full of gay men.
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Post by Zathras on Sept 12, 2010 11:16:15 GMT -5
I thought of replying to this, but instead I will simply not bother and move on...... I agree. But the other actors have never been vocal about the behind the scenes mess at that show. ESS is the only one involved in the story that has. Well, Terri C has and so did Austin Peck when he was on the show. But the others remain quiet and speak the party line. Well ... would it be considered in bad form to speak badly about your bosses, even though they're closing up shop and getting out of the business? To a certain extent it speaks more about you than them, to air "dirty laundry" publicly. I can see them not wanting to get a bad reputation (which could hurt future employment chances). Don't know if that's what's going on, but it's a thought. It doesn't really bother me, either, that they end up alone. I wish the story surrounding it had been better, but I do think the characters could use time time to themselves. As has been discussed here ad nauseum, they both have issues that they need to work on. Jake got the shaft in that he had hardly any air time over the years (and especially in the last few months).
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Post by Bonobochick on Sept 12, 2010 12:01:17 GMT -5
Aaron is Luke's [step-]brother, not Chris's. I also thought it took two to tango in that mess and put more of the onus on Alison since she was the one who was engaged & wasn't actually in love with the guy she was engaged to but with Chris... not to mention Allison pulled the same stunt when she was engaged to Casey the first time and slept with Mick Dante right before that wedding just a year later. I concur. LukeVanFan can do whatever the hell he likes with his own channel. If people didn't or don't like it, they can go elsewhere for their needs. I never did understand the some of the outraged entitlement that surrounded his having the nerve to post he didn't like Reid & refusing to be bullied to change his views on it to suit others coming on to his page lambating him about his own personal preference, but que sera. Anyhoo, I look forward to seeing how the final few episodes play out, despite one spoiler that seriously had me rolling my eyes. One more week. Woo hoo!
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Post by Zathras on Sept 12, 2010 14:02:01 GMT -5
One more week. Woo hoo! You almost sound happy it'll be over! ;D
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Post by jjose712 on Sept 12, 2010 15:07:03 GMT -5
Sorry, but i don't agree about LukeVanfan. I know he has reasong to be angry (he really dedicated time to post the videos), but he directly blame Reid for the lack of Noah's screen time, and that's not true.
He could have his opinion about LuRe storyline or dislike Reid (the truth is that is Eric's merit that a character that could be easily hated make such an impact), but knowing tptb of this show, without Reid we probably don't get any Nuke either. Yes, it would be a Nuke endgame, but after months of nothing.
And i'm the first to say that LuRe storyline has a lot of flaws, and they don't play the full story in either way, they underdevelop LuRe as a couple (we don't even know if this couple could work or not) and they were coward to not go a triangle route, that will be more respectful to Jake, who make a great job promoting the show these three years.
In my opinion he was correct about don't letting people post comments, because if this forum sometimes is difficult to moderate, i'm pretty sure his youtube account could be far worse (and he didn't want people to post spoilers), but in my opinion some of his comments about the episodes weren't of good taste.
I'm going to miss ATWT, the show has a lot of awful storylines, but the truth is that Nuke (and then LuRe) storyline is the only one that i followed without interruptions (something that i can't say of other soaps). And i'm gonna miss Eric, Jake and specially Van, but i hope than when this thread is on the gone but not forgotten section, we can post good news about the actors soon
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Post by jjose712 on Sept 12, 2010 15:17:15 GMT -5
And about the actors talking about the show, ESS only said the evident, that the gay couple wasn't treated the same way that the straight ones, in fact Forbes March was more explicit about it. I don't think Van and specially Jake are the type of actors that badmouthing their show after the end, Van and Jake were on the show for a long time, nothing changes during these years, they were promised more interesting storylines and more air time that never really recieved, but they didn't left the show.
Talking bad about their former bosses in my opinion is not their priority right now. And for example Brett Claywell recieved a lot of criticism when he expresed his feelings after being axed of OLTL (when he had a lot of reasons to complain). Scott on the other hand didn't say anything bad about the show, and he didn't even recieved a phone called to tell him he was fired
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LadyArmand
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Post by LadyArmand on Sept 12, 2010 18:23:50 GMT -5
Here is the be all and end all of it, at least from my partucular bridge. You don’t have to like what LVF does on HIS channel. You don’t have to agree with what LVF does or don’t allow on HIS channel. Because the point is it’s HIS CHANNEL. If you or anyone else wants to watch or take the time to upload episodes and therefore dictate what you like don’t like, will allow and won’t allow. Youtube is free, make your own channel. Otherwise it makes no sense to complain and belittle someone simply because he doesn’t share your opinion and love for Reid and or Luke and Reid as a couple.
I’ve watched LVF’s channel and I don’t understand why fans of Reid and by extension Luke and Reid as a couple would go on a channel they KNOW isn’t Reid or Luke and Reid dedicated. And why should he on HIS channel have to put up with hateful comments because he isn’t a Reid sycophant. He takes his time and effort to upload these episodes and therefore has the right to say what he likes, doesn’t like, will and won’t allow and shouldn’t really have to explain it much past it being HIS CHANNEL.
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HQ75
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Post by HQ75 on Sept 12, 2010 20:21:58 GMT -5
Well ... would it be considered in bad form to speak badly about your bosses, even though they're closing up shop and getting out of the business? To a certain extent it speaks more about you than them, to air "dirty laundry" publicly. I can see them not wanting to get a bad reputation (which could hurt future employment chances). Don't know if that's what's going on, but it's a thought. I don't agree. I think it is possible for actors to talk about what happened to them (or other actors) on a show speaking factually and accurately without being inappropriate. MANY of the other actors on ATWT and other soaps have spoken out about bigotry and discrimination (which is what this is). As others have pointed out, Terri and Austin BOTH talked about the discriminatory way Jake and Van were treated and Terri did not mince words and this was last year and it had no effect on her job. It's a lot more than just bad writing or directing choices. THAT'S what I meant by speaking out. Terri and ESS and Forbes should not have been the only ones to speak out because as more experience actors they know better. I didn't expect Jake and Van to speak out. ATWT was they first job and they don't have long enough resumes to bank on. I don't think it would be bad form at all, as an experienced actor, to point out discrimination and homophobia where you see it. If Forbes and EES could do it (both of whom were on the show for a very short time) surely some of the veteran actors from ATWT could open their mouths. The actress who played Lily for 20 plus years spoke out even before she left the show. I think if you are an actor who considers yourself to be socially conscious (as John Hensley and some of the others have indicated through their charity work), you should speak out in an honest and respectful manner. None of the veteran actors had anything to lose in terms of future work because there is no way anyone but P&G lackeys could NOT see the blatant heterosexim and homophobia. At any rate, that's what I meant .
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