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Post by Bonobochick on Aug 5, 2008 16:56:04 GMT -5
If I were mean I would devil's advocate you and cite how much earlier they put in the hints for Ollian long before Olli fell for Christian, even longer before Christian officially started having feelings back and that they potentially laid the groundwork for C&C breaking up even before Olli had even come back. But I'm not that mean . If I were mean (which I actually am ;D) I would say that if anything, it could be Christian/Olivia (given her: I would never have done that to you (facing Oli, talking about going through with her hideous attempt at blackmail) and neither to him (meaning Christian) - there was something to her voice that made me wonder ...). But then they would never last even a week as a couple, and Olivia is soo not the woman Christian would fancy ... . All in all I'd think up to now we haven't seen any real signs of doom as far as their relationship is concerned. The scene at the hospital was a bit strange - with Christian being really awkward as how to behave towards Oli - maybe he is like that when he is on a guilt trip So insecure - as he won't have thought that Leo would want to beat Oli up once he knew of their love maybe he was unsure of how Oli would react to him. Christian tends to mirror what he thinks of himself into others - like when he thought Gregor (and his dead father!) might be ashamed of him because he was gay and because the boxing didn't go too well at that time and it was so obvious that it was Christian (and most likely Christian alone) who thought so. SummerInTheCity, I once made a reference to that which you did and it was not well received. I think my comment was something like being able to see Olivia and Christian having hate sex (though I don't think they actually hate one another but they're not compatible regardless). Different strokes... I still haven't watched so I can't weigh in with my own opinion of their actions but going off of folks comments, it sounds like both men were in shock over what Axel did and everyone handles that type of event differently; some joke, some cry, some emotionally shutdown, some get angry but things of that degree, like gaybashing or the like, aren't handled in a uniform manner. YMMV.
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Post by chrollifan on Aug 5, 2008 16:56:09 GMT -5
It's the best explanation.
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restenergy
Full Member
Olli forever (and Christian, too)
Posts: 1,667
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Post by restenergy on Aug 5, 2008 17:01:44 GMT -5
I would have preferred Christian taking Olli's hand. Or Olli storming off and Christian following. It looked to me that when they first set off to leave, that Olli's arm moved as if Christian had taken his hand or his arm to walk away. That that was all out of our field of view, so it's far from certain. Then they stopped when Leonard spoke again before they actually left. When they do leave, Olli is holding his arm across his chest with his hand at his side. He's holding his hand over part of his chest fairly often. My guess is it's supposed to show it hurts there. But, even with what I've said, something like Christian talking Olli's hand or arm in his own hand might have been a real nice extra touch.
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restenergy
Full Member
Olli forever (and Christian, too)
Posts: 1,667
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Post by restenergy on Aug 5, 2008 17:05:47 GMT -5
I think some people are too hard on Christian and expect from their couch a perfect reaction from him, but he just does not know what to do, how to cope and above all there's guilt that that was all his fault. I am sure we'll see him in better form later. Thanks, Ivan. You said in just a couple of sentences what I was trying to say in several paragraphs. It get so loquacious sometimes.
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Post by Torrid German Love on Aug 5, 2008 17:20:03 GMT -5
RestenergyMaybe my perspective will change when I get a chance to understand the dialog. And maybe it's my own perspective and predilections, but I didn't see Christian's behavior at the hospital as odd, our of character, or something that seemed to forget that there is a relationship between Christian and Olli. On the other hand, I can easily see where one might wish for something more than we saw. Those scenes were not perfect, and they could have been done differently. And maybe doing them differently would have satisfied more of us. But all I can do is offer my own perspective. Thanks, Restenergy. I appreciate your taking time to formulate your response. As I mentioned in my response to Ivan's comments, people do tend to react strangely when confronted with (but not limited to) extreme situations. Your analogy with the farmer is a good one. Yesterday's outburts and today's tightly-reined response did puzzle me a bit. I hope Ivan's right, though. It's good to read different perspectives. It would be terribly dull if we all agreed. Besides, I could be completely wrong (and I usually am!), and I appreciate it very much when people inform me about it.
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Post by summerinthecity on Aug 5, 2008 17:21:39 GMT -5
IMO it didn't have much to do with outing themselves - Oli was still in deep shock - he was absolutely set on going home as quickly as possible and not talk about the beating or explain things or even go to the police. Christian who at first made a feeble attempt at trying to tell Oli he should stay in hospital gave up more or less at once (was shocked as well, of course) and just let Oli have his will. And maybe authors told them there was no time left for the scene so that they couldn't go into lengthy explanations *fixed tags, BChick
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Post by amber80 on Aug 5, 2008 17:28:52 GMT -5
With such a luxuriant satisfied smile on his face, one can only wonder where his other hand is....... ;D Sheepie, sheepie... What a dirty mind thy got! ;D All I could think of was: 'He can come and take a bath at my place anytime he wants... ' ;D Thanks Ivan as always for the clips and the gorgeous screencaps! Might we not make allowance enough for differences in situation and temper, as Jane Austen might say? Good point! As you already know: I love her... I think some people are too hard on Christian and expect from their couch a perfect reaction from him, but he just does not know what to do, how to cope and above all there's guilt that that was all his fault. I am sure we'll see him in better form later. I'm not always sure what to do either, so in a way I could understand his unsure behaviour very well.
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Post by tihkon2 on Aug 5, 2008 17:45:10 GMT -5
Love that bath picture... I think people who don't speak German might feel a little better when they see the subtitles. Or at least see where both Olli and Chris seem to be coming from in this episode. I now feel a bit differently knowing the things that were said. And obviously reactions make more sense now. ;D
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Post by aussie54 on Aug 5, 2008 18:20:26 GMT -5
Tihkon, you're probably right ... no matter how clear the re-caps seem to be, and even after looking very closely ;D at the screencaps and Ivan's YouTube clip, I sometimes have a completely different understanding of the situation when I eventually read the sub-titles.
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Post by nanna on Aug 5, 2008 18:39:35 GMT -5
Okay, this might make things a bit clearer:
Thank you, Ivan and Tihkon. You're both great guys!
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Post by gabriel78 on Aug 5, 2008 19:00:32 GMT -5
Here's my view of things: Christian has just come out publicly. After what happened to Olli, it's understandable that he would be a tad hesitant to be publicly-out with Olli (at the hospital, for instance) until he's had a chance to work through things. Definitely some guilt feelings there. His reaction to finding Olli? I honestly didn't find anything wrong with it. Often, intially, anger isn't the first thing felt. Shock, concern, guilt, etc. entered into the picture right now. My guess is the anger will come - and we will see it. Sometimes I think y'all read too much into things.
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restenergy
Full Member
Olli forever (and Christian, too)
Posts: 1,667
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Post by restenergy on Aug 5, 2008 19:01:37 GMT -5
Oh, thank you, Nanna! That makes things clearer, and much better. I think Christian is being rather sweet.
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Post by tihkon2 on Aug 5, 2008 19:08:04 GMT -5
yeah, after I could see what they were saying, it seems to me Christian was being completely awkward in the hospital because of Olli's (understandable)insistence on getting the fuck out of there. Now. And yes, I think guilt was a huge factor in the way he was behaving in the bedroom. "I love you" "I do too" He's getting closer to saying those three little words. ;D Thanks Nanna and Ivan! And you're welcome Schnitzelchen!
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Post by aussie54 on Aug 5, 2008 19:13:38 GMT -5
Thanks again for the quick turn-around with the sub-titles! As I said in my YouTube comment, I'm not sure what to think about Christian's remarks that being beaten up and bandaged suits Olli. He obviously likes the "goth" look.
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Post by sheepiefarm on Aug 5, 2008 19:13:55 GMT -5
Wow - the subtitles actually made a huge difference to my understanding of this episode. I take back anything I may have said earlier.
Christain is quite clearly feeling guilty at the hospital, therefore is allowing Olli to make the decision about going home - he is not going to argue cos (as far as he is concerned he is responsible for it happening). Olli is quite clearly in shock (that didn't come across to me without the subs).
My gut reaction is that this is gonna build up inside Christian - you can already see it starting while he is with Gregor in No-Limits, and being typical Christian, he will try not to let Olli see his anger.
spoiler - I agree that the real emotion will come from Christian when Olli collapses later.
Thank you Nanna, Tihkon & Ivan
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seven14
New Member
James Marsters-My Spike!
Posts: 177
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Post by seven14 on Aug 5, 2008 19:21:50 GMT -5
Here's my view of things: Christian has just come out publicly. After what happened to Olli, it's understandable that he would be a tad hesitant to be publicly-out with Olli (at the hospital, for instance) until he's had a chance to work through things. Definitely some guilt feelings there. His reaction to finding Olli? I honestly didn't find anything wrong with it. Often, intially, anger isn't the first thing felt. Shock, concern, guilt, etc. entered into the picture right now. My guess is the anger will come - and we will see it. Thank you Nanna, Tihkon, and Ivan!!! After reading all the posts today, I really wanted to wait to understand what was spoken in the Episode. I agree here with gabriel78 and I'm sure a few others. I didn't have a problem with today's episode. So many of you put it really well Christian's personality and what would feel natural to him in his reactions. Some people have to internalize what has happened and if there are guilt feelings there, they have to deal with those as well...there is so much happening with both Olli and Christian..I think they reacted very much in keeping with their personalities. I feel Olli is once again trying to be protective...remember he was the one there...not only getting the beating, but hearing all the vile things Axel had to say about Christian and their being together.....Olli knows that he needs to tell Christian who did this to him, but, protectively, this is probably all he wants to say on the subject, so that Christian doesn't go out there acting rash and getting himself in more trouble out of revenge. Christian to me showed his love to Olli...by doing the opposite of his nature because of Olli...he held himself back, he didn't fly off in a rage knowing Olli would worry about him, he tried to lighten the mood feeling inside that because of his actions, Olli was hurt. When Christian is speaking to Gregor, maybe it's just my hearing, but I think Christian got a little choked up in revealing his feeling of guilt.....Of course, Olli would overhear ...and once again go into Protective mode...making certain, as hurt as he is, that Christian knows he did the right thing and that he loves him. When we're in love, don't we always think of the other person's welfare much more than our own? To me, it was all there today. I could have stood without certain things, but today I want to share my feelings on Christian & Olli!
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Post by sheepiefarm on Aug 5, 2008 19:27:37 GMT -5
Also just wanted to comment on the Judith / Christian scenes. I actually like them - but I think one of the reasons we get to see so many of them is because when Judith doesn't have boyfriend interaction she has no other contacts within the VL cast. Being a complete outsider family / sibling wise - not talking to Lydia or Olivia - who else does that leave for her to have on screen time with?
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seven14
New Member
James Marsters-My Spike!
Posts: 177
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Post by seven14 on Aug 5, 2008 19:29:22 GMT -5
Christain is quite clearly feeling guilty at the hospital, therefore is allowing Olli to make the decision about going home - he is not going to argue cos (as far as he is concerned he is responsible for it happening). Olli is quite clearly in shock (that didn't come across to me without the subs). My gut reaction is that this is gonna build up inside Christian - you can already see it starting while he is with Gregor in No-Limits, and being typical Christian, he will try not to let Olli see his anger. spoiler - I agree that the real emotion will come from Christian when Olli collapses later.I'm on board with you here Sheepiefarm...I only pray that Christian keeps his emotions in check---he has already been to jail twice is it?....I would hate to have him do something out of love or revenge and be the one to pay the price rather then Axel.
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Post by nanna on Aug 5, 2008 19:29:33 GMT -5
Thanks again for the quick turn-around with the sub-titles! As I said in my YouTube comment, I'm not sure what to think about Christian's remarks that being beaten up and bandaged suits Olli. He obviously likes the "goth" look. Christian just made a joke because Olli clearly didn't want him to make a fuss.
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Post by jsg03jd on Aug 5, 2008 19:49:29 GMT -5
Yeah, I don't think there was anything out of character with respect to Christian's reactions to this whole nightmare. Same with Olli.
And I love the fact that Christian now wants to cook for Olli, as Olli once remarked that Christian only liked to cook for Frauen. I find that extremely sweet...
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Post by nanna on Aug 5, 2008 19:54:12 GMT -5
And I love the fact that Christian now wants to cook for Olli, as Olli once remarked that Christian only liked to cook for Frauen. I find that extremely sweet... ;D ;D ;D
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Post by tihkon2 on Aug 5, 2008 19:54:18 GMT -5
My mind went right back to that scene too.
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Post by psionycx on Aug 5, 2008 19:54:25 GMT -5
Thank you Ivan, Nanna and Tihkon!
Just as a personal observation from time as a volunteer firefighter and first aid responder, there is a certain reticence that you feel when handling someone who's been injured. This is instinctive and is actually prudent since improper movement can substantially worsen injuries. Overcoming this instinct is one of the early challenges a lot of people in medical-related fields have to work on.
So I would have been surprised to see Christian doing a lot of hugging or holding here. Olli was injured and while it might seem like a sweet thing to do, wrapping Olli up in a hug would probably be more painful than pleasant. That's most likely why he was suddenly so hands-off.
I'm more perplexed by Olli's refusal to tell Leonhard what happened and to bring in the police immediately. That's just stupid quite frankly. Axel is clearly dangerous and he's running around loose, a situation that won't change if Olli doesn't push. He should have been speaking to the cops, not Gregor and Christian. Certainly not the next day. Axel didn't appear to be wearing gloves and he opened the front door to No Limits before Olli could lock it. That means his fingerprints should be on the door, and possibly on other surfaces in the bar, including the beer bottle he drank from and then smashed.
But this is soap opera land so complications are mandatory.
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Post by jsg03jd on Aug 5, 2008 19:58:47 GMT -5
Well, I think Olli was still in extreme shock and couldn't bring himself at the hospital to admit that he had been gay bashed. (Has Olli been bashed before?). I'm also guessing some of his male pride refused to acknowledge that he wasn't able to defend himself against Axel and his evil night stick. In other words, Olli wasn't thinking rationally and he just couldn't tell the whole story to Leonhard just yet.
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Post by sheepiefarm on Aug 5, 2008 19:59:14 GMT -5
I have to admit to a wry smile to myself when Olli appeared with the obligatory plaster over the eye. Some things never change. ;D
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