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Post by fortheloveofgays on Jun 20, 2008 21:32:10 GMT -5
Today's episode was awesome and you are right lolaruns , Jo's eyes are beautiful they are one of the first things that attracted me to the show;) Seriously, it is wonderful to see our guys just being a couple, and Gregor did have a point, it seems to me that Christian and Oliver just can't really hide that they are a couple, it shows too completely. Wasn't this the same Gregor who was oblivious for months to what was right in front of his eyes? Yeah you know I thought about that later as well, I guess now that he knows for sure he can see all the obvious signs. I guess sometimes siblings can be oblivious to things that are going on in their siblings lives. Especially since Gregor thought he knew Christian so well
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restenergy
Full Member
Olli forever (and Christian, too)
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Post by restenergy on Jun 20, 2008 21:34:42 GMT -5
Now that I've seen the episode with the wonderful work of subtitler extraordinaire Nanna (and we can't forget the supporting role of Tihkon in that endeavor, either), I've a few more comments. First, Olli and Gregor were amazing as they worked out their little scheme. Smooth pursuit of a solution and a goal. Nicely done. I'm still interested in how Christian will react, but Olli and Gregor were entertaining to watch today. Second, the Judith attack was very entertaining. As I said before, Christian hasn't looked as confused as he was at the end for a very long time. I don't blame him. Suddenly Judith's lips are planted firmly on his own, and quite unexpectedly, too. I did really enjoy his struggle with it, too. While Judith was kissing him, the look seemed one of panic and surprise, mixed with a little bit of "get off me." Quite a look. (And I don't think it was I who said it was the best look. Not sure who, though.) Third, the gentle fist bump to Olli's chest was nice. The gesture communicates a lot. Christian's first instinct was a little more intimate, but he remembered where he was and who was there. And there was an aspect of reaction to Axel's latest comment; an "of course, he won't let it go..." and "these homophobic remarks are getting to me" kind of thing. But I also thought it expressed appreciation that Olli was there, and that Olli and Christian are mutually supporting each other through such things, even if unspoken. This one is one of those cases where a gesture expresses things better or expresses more than one can so readily do in words. Nice acting on Thore's part. Fourth, because it is best, I love the Twirl'o'love. ( Sheepie is right. It does sound like it should be a candy bar. ) They were super cute today. How was it, again, that Gregor didn't figure out they were a couple? The unicellular organism description of Axel from Christian was wonderful, too. I also really like Gregor's ease with Christian and Olli. So much better then when both of them thought he was being less than accepting.
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restenergy
Full Member
Olli forever (and Christian, too)
Posts: 1,667
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Post by restenergy on Jun 20, 2008 21:45:46 GMT -5
Beautiful episode, really. Apart from Olli's outfits... Come on, first the hideous fish, and then the "table-cloth" like shirt... they're spoiling my little sweetheart! I'm sorry, I'll have to half disagree with you. I quite liked the non-fish shirt. But "the hideous fish" seems an apt description of the one at the beginning. If it wasn't for Christians facial expressions then, I'd have thought much the same thing. But Christian's reaction saved the scene from such potential unpleasantness. You guys have a very good point. I really don't get why Axel is suddenly showing up there. To throw peanuts at Olli? Maybe the speculation is on the mark, and Axel is gay and secretly has a crush on one or both of these fellows. No Limits just doesn't seem to be Axel's scene. I can more easily buy Axel and the Neaderthals waiting for Christian at the end. They are there to get after Christian. Axel has brought his backup. But they still seem quite out of place.
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RJ
New Member
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Post by RJ on Jun 20, 2008 21:50:45 GMT -5
The boxers really were a bunch of Neanderthals weren't they? Axel is potentially cute but somehow I visualize in him as a WWII character. They look like they'd be right at home in a Titan video... or Cazzo video, for the German folks. More cute than annoying. Yay, for more scenes with Olli and Gregor! No kidding! She can't even handle her own schemes properly. Yeah, the cuteness meter was off the scale! This will be one of my favourite Ollian kisses (of many), for sure. Was that the sound of kittens being born? I think Christian was just surprised to be kissed by anyone in those circumstances, and especially because it was Judith doing the kissing.
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mikey
Junior Member
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Post by mikey on Jun 20, 2008 21:54:53 GMT -5
A big thank you, yet again, to you, Ivan and Nanna for working so hard to make so many of us so happy! You guys rock! Agreed and concurred! Much praise and thanks
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Post by mattnjacob on Jun 20, 2008 22:50:21 GMT -5
First, thanks go out to Ivan and Nanna. You two are like our drug dealers right now...we're so addicted to this story. Few observations: - Several people have mentioned, both here and on other boards, how they didn't like Olli stepping in with Axxhole at No Limits. I don't think Olli stepped in to defend Christian. He stepped in to defend himself because I honestly think he was pissed off.
- We're okay with the beard story for right now. I don't think it went down as planned, obviously, because I think both Gregor and Olli would have liked to have cleared it with Christian first. I don't think they would ever have just sprung it on him.
- As I mentioned in the other thread. I like the amount of subtle and direct contact that Ollian have with one another. It sometimes goes unappreciated because it happens so often. I don't mean the obvious contact, I mean the little things. These two do such a good job playing a couple in love.
- I think (and I like to know what others think) that one Christian wins his fight and comes out , the boxing storyline will be over. Do you see any reason to carry it beyond this story arch?
- Won't be happy campers, not one bit, if they do a Judith gets her wires crossed and falls for Christian storyline.
- I think the fish shirt looked better in action then cropped in the photos. It certainly wasn't the best selection, but on the whole I didn't mind it. Maybe it was wardrobes way of gaying Olli up a little.
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Post by psionycx on Jun 20, 2008 22:55:01 GMT -5
It is right to give the holy trinity of Ivan, Nanna and Tihkon thanks and praise!
Naturally it's hard to truly read subtext in translated media, but now having seen the subtitled version I think that Axel and the Neanderthals are actually kind of pitiful. Their expressed scorn over Christian being in college seems like the kind of rationalization one expects to hear from people with no prospects talking about others who have them.
Boxing is something Christian wants, perhaps mostly because his father wanted it. But it's not the only avenue for the future that is open to him. He's not just a dumb hunk of meat that hits other hunks of meat for a living. People like Axel often use homophobic slurs against men who are simply better off than them, gay or not. Like I said earlier I think that Christian is an odd fit in their world regardless of what his sexual orientation is.
Whether Axel is gay himself is open to question. He does seem oddly interested in Olli. But it may be just idle boredom leading to harassment. Somehow I suspect that Axel and the Neanderthals aren't hugely successful with with most women. They strike as the kind of lower lifeforms that only equally lowly women would do anything with. The idea of them sustaining relationships with girlfriends is simply beyond my imagination.
On the other side of things, I really do like the dynamic between Gregor and Olli. Gregor seems to be in sync with Olli over their mutual concern for Christian's well-being. Christian's worries were indeed for naught it seems, as Gregor has no problem relating to (and conspiring with) Olli as Christian's partner. He seems to see Olli as his ally in advancing Christian's life rather than as a detriment, which is really nice.
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Post by psionycx on Jun 20, 2008 23:04:40 GMT -5
Several people have mentioned, both here and on other boards, how they didn't like Olli stepping in with Axxhole at No Limits. I don't think Olli stepped in to defend Christian. He stepped in to defend himself because I honestly think he was pissed off. I'll agree there. Axel was antagonizing Olli directly there, not just taunting Christian. In Christian's case it's more of a guilt-by-association problem. In the twisted minds of sub-human homophobes like Axel no "real" man would live with a homo unless he was himself a homo as well. If anything it was Christian standing up for his man, interposing himself between Axel and Olli. Unfortunately that only reinforces his guilt in Axel's eyes because again, a "real" man would be expected to join in harassing the homo (as Wolle expected). Fortunately it didn't dampen their spirits for a little hallway affection, which was after all very cute. Especially Olli kissing Christian in front of Gregor. Clearly he relishes not having to hide things anymore and Christian seemed rather pleased to have Gregor see the affection he gets from Olli as well. Which is, after all, superior to what Gregor has with his girl tricks.
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Post by fortheloveofgays on Jun 20, 2008 23:04:47 GMT -5
It is right to give the holy trinity of Ivan, Nanna and Tihkon thanks and praise! Naturally it's hard to truly read subtext in translated media, but now having seen the subtitled version I think that Axel and the Neanderthals are actually kind of pitiful. Their expressed scorn over Christian being in college seems like the kind of rationalization one expects to hear from people with no prospects talking about others who have them. Boxing is something Christian wants, perhaps mostly because his father wanted it. But it's not the only avenue for the future that is open to him. He's not just a dumb hunk of meat that hits other hunks of meat for a living. People like Axel often use homophobic slurs against men who are simply better off than them, gay or not. Like I said earlier I think that Christian is an odd fit in their world regardless of what his sexual orientation is. Whether Axel is gay himself is open to question. He does seem oddly interested in Olli. But it may be just idle boredom leading to harassment. Somehow I suspect that Axel and the Neanderthals aren't hugely successful with with most women. They strike as the kind of lower lifeforms that only equally lowly women would do anything with. The idea of them sustaining relationships with girlfriends is simply beyond my imagination. On the other side of things, I really do like the dynamic between Gregor and Olli. Gregor seems to be in sync with Olli over their mutual concern for Christian's well-being. Christian's worries were indeed for naught it seems, as Gregor has no problem relating to (and conspiring with) Olli as Christian's partner. He seems to see Olli as his ally in advancing Christian's life rather than as a detriment, which is really nice. psionycx I definitely agree with you on the Gregor and Olli point. I know that when I am in a relationship one of the most important things is that my sister gets along with who I care about. The relationship between lover and sibling is under appreciated and the fact that Gregor knows that Olli is there for Christian to help and not hurt gives me a whole new level of respect for this story.
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mikey
Junior Member
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Post by mikey on Jun 20, 2008 23:05:55 GMT -5
On the other side of things, I really do like the dynamic between Gregor and Olli. Gregor seems to be in sync with Olli over their mutual concern for Christian's well-being. Christian's worries were indeed for naught it seems, as Gregor has no problem relating to (and conspiring with) Olli as Christian's partner. He seems to see Olli as his ally in advancing Christian's life rather than as a detriment, which is really nice. I agree. Despite the awesome moments between Olli & Christian, the dynamic with Olli and Gregor was my favourite part of the episode. It's nice to see Olli interact with other characters in a meaningful way, since we don't get that as much as with Christian.
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Post by lolaruns on Jun 21, 2008 0:21:46 GMT -5
IMO, I didn't think that the boxers were there by accident. I think Axel was lying about "not remembering" that he was supposed to sparr with Christian and was hanging out at No Limits waiting for Christian in order to tell him off.
Personally, I have a hard time finding it believable that the boxing story would just end after Christian wins the fight. As a character Christian has put too much into it to just go "Naw, don't like it after all". So I think it would take some time to untangle him from the whole deal (injury, big realization, or the whole thing runs in the background for a month and then they announce that he gave it up because he sucked).
*color changed for spoilers
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Post by fortheloveofgays on Jun 21, 2008 0:34:46 GMT -5
Ollian before breakfast, Ollian before lunch, Ollian after dinner (because I have to have a life sometime in between right?) Ollian always:)
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mgh48
Junior Member
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Post by mgh48 on Jun 21, 2008 0:48:21 GMT -5
IMO, I didn't think that the boxers were there by accident. I think Axel was lying about "not remembering" that he was supposed to sparr with Christian and was hanging out at No Limits waiting for Christian in order to tell him off. Personally, I have a hard time finding it believable that the boxing story would just end after Christian wins the fight. As a character Christian has put too much into it to just go "Naw, don't like it after all". So I think it would take some time to untangle him from the whole deal (injury, big realization, or the whole thing runs in the background for a month and then they announce that he gave it up because he sucked). Sadly, I think you're probably dead on the money, there lola---much as I could wish you weren't heh. I suppose the more dreadful alternative for our guys would be to have some sort of pathetic Nuke-type 'storyline': like, I dunno, an international drug cartel's head honcho through intimidation and sheer mediocrity, forces his only daughter and heir to flee Colombia. She winds up in Dusseldorf, meets Olliver who, as we know he would, agrees to help her attain German citizenship by marriage and fathering her children on German soil----Then Christian and Olliver have a series of evil arguments while they have gunfights in the streets with evil drug smugglers sent to bring the wayward woman home...or whatever. *sigh* I could really, really wish Christian to come to the conclusion that boxing isn't going to work as a long term career. In the long run, it will lead to all kinds of health problems...lol. Dealing with 'normal' Gay life in a still homophobic society would be exciting enough for me. Or, would that just be plain boring as hell? I can't tell at this point. Regardless, I liked today's episode very much---though agree it felt a little contrived. Geoff *color changed for spoilers
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Post by ivaniv on Jun 21, 2008 1:05:14 GMT -5
You guys have a very good point. I really don't get why Axel is suddenly showing up there. To throw peanuts at Olli? Maybe the speculation is on the mark, and Axel is gay and secretly has a crush on one or both of these fellows. No Limits just doesn't seem to be Axel's scene. I can more easily buy Axel and the Neaderthals waiting for Christian at the end. They are there to get after Christian. Axel has brought his backup. But they still seem quite out of place. He's a bully and when Wolle told him about his suspicions he probably thought he could make him nervous before the next day and he brought a backup that really looked like they just stepped out from some gay porn ;D Maybe they were shooting in the neighbourhood Or Wolle could have even told him to go there and make troubles, he has a reason to be angry with Christian.
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mgh48
Junior Member
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Post by mgh48 on Jun 21, 2008 1:09:27 GMT -5
You guys have a very good point. I really don't get why Axel is suddenly showing up there. To throw peanuts at Olli? Maybe the speculation is on the mark, and Axel is gay and secretly has a crush on one or both of these fellows. No Limits just doesn't seem to be Axel's scene. I can more easily buy Axel and the Neaderthals waiting for Christian at the end. They are there to get after Christian. Axel has brought his backup. But they still seem quite out of place. He's a bully and when Wolle told him about his suspicions he probably thought he could make him nervous before the next day and he brought a backup that really looked like they just stepped out from some gay porn ;D Maybe they were shooting in the neighbourhood Or Wolle could have even told him to go there and make troubles, he has a reason to be angry with Christian. I agree. He wasn't there by accident. His whole purpose was to intimidate and try and make Christian quit. He needs his a$$ beat again, apparently. After his insulting remarks, I'm sure Christian will oblige. Geoff
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Post by Bonobochick on Jun 21, 2008 1:11:20 GMT -5
You guys have a very good point. I really don't get why Axel is suddenly showing up there. To throw peanuts at Olli? Maybe the speculation is on the mark, and Axel is gay and secretly has a crush on one or both of these fellows. No Limits just doesn't seem to be Axel's scene. I can more easily buy Axel and the Neaderthals waiting for Christian at the end. They are there to get after Christian. Axel has brought his backup. But they still seem quite out of place. He's a bully and when Wolle told him about his suspicions he probably thought he could make him nervous before the next day and he brought a backup that really looked like they just stepped out from some gay porn ;D Maybe they were shooting in the neighbourhood Or Wolle could have even told him to go there and make troubles, he has a reason to be angry with Christian. Personally I think Axel is hot for Olli!! Seriously, that look he gave Olli after the peanut toss and with the almost fights? Oh yea. Oh, I meant to say earlier that I agree with the person who thought Olli got "feisty" not to protect Christian but because he was pissed off at Axel's comments directed at him and wanted to punch Axel in the face.
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mgh48
Junior Member
Posts: 368
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Post by mgh48 on Jun 21, 2008 1:14:11 GMT -5
He's a bully and when Wolle told him about his suspicions he probably thought he could make him nervous before the next day and he brought a backup that really looked like they just stepped out from some gay porn ;D Maybe they were shooting in the neighbourhood Or Wolle could have even told him to go there and make troubles, he has a reason to be angry with Christian. Personally I think Axel is hot for Olli!! OMG! now, that would be an exciting story! Tryin ta steal Christian's man away heh heh heh. Methinks many an ass-whippin would be forthcoming from der Mann. ;D Geoff
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Post by lolaruns on Jun 21, 2008 1:15:03 GMT -5
The thing is, it seems to me that VL seems to be mostly using the fast forward button over the boxing stuff to get to the soapy stuff. I think a homophobia in boxing storyline after Christian comes out could actually be interesting. If it actually made an attempt to portray what exactly the repercussions for an out gay boxer would be. But I don't really get the vibe from the show that they are interested that deeply in the subject matter.
Say what you will about AWZ but the kind of insults and the kind of mobbing portrayed there felt a lot more true to life to me; while on VL it's basically that they hire a bunch of cardboard extras who say their typical homophobic lines and then march off again so the VL people can deal with exciting subjects like "How will Fabian react, zomg!". I especially love how the various characters walk around and tell each other "Dude, those guys are like homophobes". It always cracks me up.
Anyway, I don't think that the boxing storyline will be around forever because it requires a lot of extras and extra sets. But I don't buy that the way they have been portraying Christian so far that he would just quit after the first fight on his own. They haven't stressed the whole father/personal dream thing enough, nor does Christian seem like he is just doing it for ego (meaning: prove to Axel that he can beat him, then quit), he just doesn't seem miserable enough with it. IMO, he comes across like he still loves the sport and both Olli and Gregor who are closest to him believe him otherwise they wouldn't work so hard to support him.
So the only way they could extract him from the storyline quickly would be doing an injury storyline in the near future. Which I think would actually be quite depressing if Christian has to give it up immediately due to outside force when he worked so much for it. At least when Gregor had to give up flying it was only after he got a decent amount of time doing it.
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mgh48
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Post by mgh48 on Jun 21, 2008 1:20:06 GMT -5
I like Bchick's idea better: Axel, realizing he's a repressed Gay Man and envying O&C's complete okayness with it all, decides he wants Olliver for himself. Olliver, though pitying the pathetic moron on certain levels, scorns the advances. Christian, fully trusting Olli, is nevertheless in a typical Christian-rage of jealousy and pulverizes Axel in public---then Outs him. LOL I'm just ebil > Geoff
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Post by lolaruns on Jun 21, 2008 1:22:18 GMT -5
I could go for a scene where Axel tries to score a blowjob from Olli (cuz you know all gay men are sluts) and Olli just laughs in his face. ;D
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mgh48
Junior Member
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Post by mgh48 on Jun 21, 2008 1:26:03 GMT -5
I could go for a scene where Axel tries to score a blowjob from Olli (cuz you know all gay men are sluts) and Olli just laughs in his face. ;D ROFL! *gets red faced* er ahem ;D Geoff
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RJ
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Post by RJ on Jun 21, 2008 1:27:05 GMT -5
Oh come on people! Since when are soap opera plots and situations NOT contrived? * Every time a character arrives just in time and just within eavesdropping distance to overhear IMPORTANT information... contrived. * Every time a character barges through an unlocked door (that logically would be locked in real life) just in time to witness a compromising situation... contrived. * The entire Fabian-Judith-Constantin love triangle... contrived.
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restenergy
Full Member
Olli forever (and Christian, too)
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Post by restenergy on Jun 21, 2008 1:38:13 GMT -5
Oh come on people! Since when are soap opera plots and situations NOT contrived? Well, yes. But there is a balance than any soup has to pay at least some attention to (unless it's mean to be entirely tongue-in-cheek and self-referential), namely, between the contrived soapiness and some measure of dramatic logic and believability. Where they choose to put that balance may be open to debate, both amongst writers and amongst the viewers, but it's not entirely contrivance (against the backdrop of dramatic works, anyway).
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mgh48
Junior Member
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Post by mgh48 on Jun 21, 2008 1:41:17 GMT -5
Oh come on people! Since when are soap opera plots and situations NOT contrived? * Every time a character arrives just in time and just within eavesdropping distance to overhear IMPORTANT information... contrived. * Every time a character barges through an unlocked door (that logically would be locked in real life) just in time to witness a compromising situation... contrived. * The entire Fabian-Judith-Constantin love triangle... contrived. /nodsnods ta RJ yeah...but today, it just LOOKED more contrived, dontcha think? Geoff
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Post by lolaruns on Jun 21, 2008 1:44:25 GMT -5
Contrievance doesn't bother me too much, but it felt a bit rushed to me. I think I would have liked this more if it had been spread out over the whole week (like the confrontation with Axel happens on monday, they ask Judith on Thursday and the actual bearding happens on Friday).
Plus, just because characters like Wolle and Axel are quite literally tools to the storyline that doesn't mean that you can't flesh them out a little bit. Not to mention the kind of group dynamics that go on in situations like that might actually be somewhat interesting to watch.
I would rather see some (though not too much that would be repetitive) of Christian trying something and slamming into walls rather than the characters just conveniently sitting around and summing it up as "Oh, they are homophobes, don't even try".
That said, I expect the focus to be more on the fallout this has on Judith and Fabian so I expect that this is the aspect the writers intend to truly waltz out.
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