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Post by jjose712 on Jun 14, 2009 4:44:46 GMT -5
I think there are different perspectives about all this, and maybe soap watchers have a different one that the people like me, who only watch the gay storyline online.
My first problem was the overhyping, everytime there is mention that a gay storyline on a soap will begin, the forums everywhere are a constant bashing of ATWT. And yes, there are a lot of reasons to bash ATWT (the writers seems to be the worst enemy of the show) but the truth is in terms of gay character, no Y&R or OLTL, seems to really invest what ATWT invested. Luke was a legacy character linked to one of the main families, the OLTL characters are minor characters, and Rafe is just a barely there one.
I think Y&R and OLTL were inteligent to write their gay storylines (even when a lot of the audience seems to be quite conservative, and some even homophobic) because they know that some part of the audience likes this kind of the storyline, and right now they don't have to face the pressure that ATWT had to face since the begining.
My problem with Y&R is right now is much ado about nothing, Rafe came out, that's ok, but since then he disapeared. He is a barely there character who will be involved in the main storyline this summer, so it'll be more inteligent make the audience know the guy, because right now they can kill off Rafe, and nobody cares about it, and i find difficult to believe that a story involved a character wich nobody cares could be a success (not about the story itself, because i don't really care how good this show is, but the gay storyline).
I wish i am wrong, and this will be a really good storyline with a lot of success.
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valso
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Post by valso on Jun 14, 2009 9:18:43 GMT -5
While I wouldn't have had Rafe disappear for a month and give him some scenes to have people get to know him, Y&R is known for telling stories at glacial speed so it's not surprising one bit to me. I still think Y&R is going to going to a great job telling Rafe's story. Might be too slow for some, but I think it will be good. I have faith in Y&R writers and I'm sure it will be an entertaining storyline with much twists and cliffhangers. If Y&R is the most watched soap in the US there must be a reason for this. I think it will be in the best interest of everybody that both Y&R and OLTL will succeed in their gay storylines otherwise maybe in about a year (when ATWT almost surely will be cancelled) there will be no gay character left in US daytime television. Back on Y&R please please please let Philp IV be Rafe's love interest  |
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Post by justinate on Jun 16, 2009 4:52:45 GMT -5
Yesterday's Canadian episode (airs today in the US) featured Rafe.
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carld2
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Post by carld2 on Jun 16, 2009 14:59:11 GMT -5
I think there are different perspectives about all this, and maybe soap watchers have a different one that the people like me, who only watch the gay storyline online. My first problem was the overhyping, everytime there is mention that a gay storyline on a soap will begin, the forums everywhere are a constant bashing of ATWT. And yes, there are a lot of reasons to bash ATWT (the writers seems to be the worst enemy of the show) but the truth is in terms of gay character, no Y&R or OLTL, seems to really invest what ATWT invested. Luke was a legacy character linked to one of the main families, the OLTL characters are minor characters, and Rafe is just a barely there one. I think Y&R and OLTL were inteligent to write their gay storylines (even when a lot of the audience seems to be quite conservative, and some even homophobic) because they know that some part of the audience likes this kind of the storyline, and right now they don't have to face the pressure that ATWT had to face since the begining. My problem with Y&R is right now is much ado about nothing, Rafe came out, that's ok, but since then he disapeared. He is a barely there character who will be involved in the main storyline this summer, so it'll be more inteligent make the audience know the guy, because right now they can kill off Rafe, and nobody cares about it, and i find difficult to believe that a story involved a character wich nobody cares could be a success (not about the story itself, because i don't really care how good this show is, but the gay storyline). I wish i am wrong, and this will be a really good storyline with a lot of success. I agree with what you've said. There was hype and gloating from before this story even started about how this story was going to show up ATWT, because this was going to be a different kind of story involving gays, and Y&R was so much better written than ATWT. I don't think Y&R is very well written at the moment, and has not been for some time. They have some good stretches, but most of the show is very cold, very hollow. They don't build relationships, they don't know how to develop characters. They don't bother to give viewers a reason to care. Rafe is probably a plot device. I've heard people talk about his looks, or lately, his bad hairdo, but almost never about who he is as a person. He is there to be the token gay who is used by evil Adam. A character who goaded a woman into a miscarriage and is now having her treated by a doctor who sexually abuse his patients. Y&R never claimed this story would be anything big, but I do wonder if those who hyped the story now have some regrets. |
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dkp
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Post by dkp on Jun 16, 2009 15:20:57 GMT -5
I'm actually really liking Y&R right now. Do I wish Rafe had been on more? Yup, patience is key with show. Rafe, has been a bit of a "token" now, but that's because his story hasn't even started yet. It doesn't really kick off until next week and really get going until July.
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carld2
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Post by carld2 on Jun 16, 2009 15:39:23 GMT -5
Is Rafe's upcoming story only about Adam? That's where I think some of us have been disappointed. I don't care about their relationship (Adam is too far gone for me to care about now, and I know he's probably never going to have any genuine feelings for Rafe). I wanted to care about Rafe, and to get to know him as a person outside of the story with Adam. They've had months to let viewers see more of Rafe with other people (like his high school friend Billy), to establish Rafe as his own character, and they didn't make the effort. As long as Rafe only appears when Adam needs a toy, then viewers may never have any interest in Rafe himself.
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Post by pepe1958 on Jun 16, 2009 15:40:56 GMT -5
Yep, Rafe was finally on today, after a month's absence. I agree with those who have complained about the big hype and then...the character disappears for a month! At the very least, as a friend of Lily's, he could've been at the Lily/Cane wedding; and as a friend of Billy's, couldn't he have talked to Billy when the whole Sharon's baby/Chloe leaving Billy stuff was going on? Missed opportunities to remind viewers who Rafe is.
Also, it seems that OLTL has sprung their news about the Fish/Kyle storyline just as the storyline is about to kick off, which is much more satisfying.
As to the question of characters not being related to core families: this doesn't bother me too much, because if the characters become popular enough--and that could very well happen with Fish/Kyle on OLTL--they will surely stick around, and could conceivably be written to have some connection to a core family at a later date.
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Post by tihkon2 on Jun 16, 2009 16:52:00 GMT -5
Well, I for one, can't wait for the storyline to get started. I'll reserve my judgement until the story actually, you know, begins. Regarding what the storyline is. I'm under the impression, from interviews with the show's executive Maria Bell, that it won't be just one storyline. Part of it will be Adam using Rafe. Manipulating him by pretending to be interested in him. The actor who plays Rafe said in an interview though, that Rafe isn't stupid. So who knows, maybe he catches on. Another part of this storyline that has been speculated on especially at Afterelton when the news first hit, is that Rafe will actually end up with Phillip the Third or his son Phillip the Fourth. From an interview with openly gay actor Thom Bierdz, who is playing the newly returned P3, it seemed he was returning to specifically take part in a gay storyline. So my thoughts are that Rafe will initially be used by Adam , (who isn't even gay) and then either P3 or P4 will enter into this story. I am also completely cool with the Adam and Rafe thing being a big evil manipulation. It's a soap opera, and they've been doing that for years. But always with a sweet lovely girl being the one manipulated by the big bad villain. I think it's awesome that they're doing it with a twist this time. Good will always prevail in the end, so I'm not worried. Also, I 'm not at all frustrated by the wait, because as I've mentioned before, I have no intention of watching the show until the story actually starts. ;D And since as far as I know, the show didn't specifically seek out the gay press when the spoilers were first released, I don't think they were under any obligation to show Rafe more than they have since his story hasn't started yet.  |
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Post by justinate on Jun 16, 2009 19:08:08 GMT -5
Well they're about to involve Rafe, in his capacity as an attorney, in Noah's (Adam's nephew, Victor's grandson via Nick) emancipation s/l. So I guess he's sharing the duties of lawyer for the denizens of Genoa City with Heather and Michael Baldwin. It's kind of interesting to draw together all the relationships. Rafe defended Adam while Heather prosecuted; Ashley's brother Jack was Adam's co-conspirator in the crime for which Heather prosecuted him; Heather's father, Paul, is engaged to Nikki Newman, Victor's ex who is suspicious of Adam; and Nikki's grandson Noah is about to approach Rafe for help with his emancipation. Anthony Langford has up clips of the most recent (US) episode. Nina Chancellor, the "widow" of Philip III closes in on Cane, with Paul's help; while Rafe defends his aunt Estella to Ashley; and Adam arouses his father's suspicions. Part 1: www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNI0ze2iHy8Part 2: www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwxDRRXmajA |
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Post by final81 on Jun 19, 2009 12:48:54 GMT -5
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maya
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Post by maya on Jun 19, 2009 12:56:39 GMT -5
wow! adam is such a bad guy, I love him ;D
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Post by Bonobochick on Jun 19, 2009 14:10:56 GMT -5
Not really shocking news, IMO. While this makes sense with Adam on the defensive about the gaslighting, overall I am still not impressed with the writing of this story.
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dkp
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Post by dkp on Jun 19, 2009 14:47:00 GMT -5
Not surprising to me either. I called it before Rafe even revealed the Audience he's gay. I'm darn excited though. I just came down from my high. LOL
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Post by pepe1958 on Jun 19, 2009 16:02:12 GMT -5
Further info on the Rafe/Adam spoiler from Nelson Branco:
On June 24, fans are forced to say goodbye to Chris Engen as Adam. The next day, Michael Muhney replaces him as Genoa City’s biggest psycho — well, next to Mary Jane and myself! As for Engen, The Suds Report can now reveal, that according to our sources, the real reason the actor bolted was because he refused to film a scene in which Rafe and Adam have sex, which airs later next week. We didn't want to ruin the story, so we kept the plot twist under wraps by saying it was just a kiss. Yep, that's right — Adam sleeps with Rafe to keep him quiet. And it's not the first time they "do it."
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carld2
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Post by carld2 on Jun 19, 2009 16:05:03 GMT -5
So this entire storyline has little to do with Rafe, he's simply a gay man with no real personality of his own who, naturally, can't resist sleeping with some guy who is clearly disturbed, and who may have ruined Rafe's beloved aunt's life, but who puts the moves on Rafe when he's desperate not to be found out?
This story would have to have very hot sex scenes for me to not be put off by the writing.
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Post by tihkon2 on Jun 19, 2009 16:10:22 GMT -5
I am looking forward to this. True soap opera evilness and villainy. Wheee!!
;D
And this is not the gay love story.
As Maria Bell herself has mentioned at least twice I think. There will be more gays in (OOPS), Genoa City (thanks Pepe!) this summer.
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Post by pepe1958 on Jun 19, 2009 16:32:28 GMT -5
Hehe, you mean Genoa City! But, yeah, there'll be more gays in Llanview, too!
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maya
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Post by maya on Jun 19, 2009 16:36:16 GMT -5
There are gays everywhere this summer ;D
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carld2
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Post by carld2 on Jun 19, 2009 16:59:29 GMT -5
If he's going to have another relationship, then why are they having him jump into bed so fast with this weird guy he thinks is a stalker and framed his aunt for various crimes?
I hope they will develop Rafe more as a character so he'll seem less like a plot device and more of this will make sense.
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Post by sheepiefarm on Jun 19, 2009 17:14:01 GMT -5
If he's going to have another relationship, then why are they having him jump into bed so fast with this weird guy he thinks is a stalker and framed his aunt for various crimes? Because it's a soap  Isn't it just a wee bit interesting to have a gay character that interacts within storylines that are not all about love, angst, heartbreak or romance  So do I - but if there are a few flaws and mishaps to his love-life along the way, then maybe it'll feel all the better if/when he gets a full-blown romance story. |
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carld2
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Post by carld2 on Jun 19, 2009 17:36:29 GMT -5
It seems to me like Rafe's story will be all about angst and heartbreak. I wouldn't have a problem with this if there was some motivation as to why he would want Adam, or if we had a reason to care about Rafe, but so far I think he's only there because they want to shock viewers by having Adam bed a gay man to get what he wants.
One of the benefits of soaps is they have more time than most other genres to develop characters. They've had months to develop Rafe and they haven't. I hope more will come in the future. Adam has become such a black hole of a character, hopefully Rafe will get more of a chance if or when he's around other characters.
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Post by Bonobochick on Jun 19, 2009 17:43:14 GMT -5
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Post by pepe1958 on Jun 19, 2009 19:52:17 GMT -5
While I agree that they haven't developed Rafe's character properly, I'd also like to point out that Rafe could be using the sex with Adam just as much as Adam is using it with Rafe--the closer Rafe gets to Adam, the closer he could be to finding out the truth.
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Post by Bonobochick on Jun 19, 2009 20:56:04 GMT -5
While I agree that they haven't developed Rafe's character properly, I'd also like to point out that Rafe could be using the sex with Adam just as much as Adam is using it with Rafe--the closer Rafe gets to Adam, the closer he could be to finding out the truth. Maybe but highly doubtful. I won't said never but ... highly doubtful. |
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HQ75
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Do I contradict myself? Very well then I contradict myself, (I am large, I contain multitudes.)
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Post by HQ75 on Jun 19, 2009 21:47:22 GMT -5
I love it. Don't make a big deal out of the sex thing, just let it be part of the plot like it is with everyone else.
Characters on tv shows have sex with each other for all kinds of nefarious reasons all the time (particularly soap operas) and it's not like Rafe is being presented as slutty or promiscuous (which I'm not against but I know folks get offended by that kind of thing)
I think the fact that Adam would sleep with Rafe to shut him or or manipulate him just normalizes the whole gay sex issue for Y&R.
Obviously it will depend upon how Adam treats the sexual encounter (is he just like "Ha ha, now I've got him" or does he go the "gay panic" way.)
We won't know until after the scenes take place but I love the potential "cat and mouse" of it.
Since they have made it clear in interviews and spoilers that Adam is NOT supposed to be the love interest of Rafe in the long run and that Rafe definitely has a different guy coming along soon (a legacy character) this summer who will be his real love interest, I don't have a problem with casual sex for personal gain.
It's not like Rafe is a teenager or some inexperienced "newly come out" dude. He's grown and not stupid so he can take it.
The way his being gay was revealed made it clear that he's been out for a long time his close friends.
Also, we shouldn't assume that Rafe will be "tortured" by it anymore so than any other character that sleeps with someone to get information or to shut them up.
So far I really like the actor's portrayal of the role so I'm excited to see how it plays out.
I've not been a watcher of Y&R but they do seem to not be in a rush to tell a story so maybe they are just letting Rafe get introduced more fully to the viewers as part of this plot in preparation for larger plot that's more about him later on.
It's too early to call at this point.
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