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Post by davedoty on Jan 27, 2010 22:29:29 GMT -5
More re: the opening. I've often noticed that Gerard Kearns seems a little more reserved than some other cast members about showing his derriere. He's willing to do all sorts of other things that are shocking, but he's almost always got a sheet or underwear at least partially covering in situations where the other younger guys let it all show. So when I saw that bit in the opening, I was pleasantly surprised, and not just because of the plot implications.
I've seen the second episode from E4. I won't say much for fear of spoilers, but I'm going to verify one spoiler that's been around, so turn away if you don't want to see: It appears that Ian and Mickey are already living together, although there's no dialog that makes it clear. Of course, since they didn't discuss it, it's not clear if they're roommates, or something more.
Anyway, that ep does have a little more Ian, and a lot more Mickey
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Post by stl29tide on Jan 28, 2010 13:09:26 GMT -5
Yeah, I didn't really like how they didn't explain anything in the first episode. I mean, there was just one slight mention of Debbie, there was no mention of Katie and what happened to her.
I saw the second episode as well and this was my problem with that:
Ian and Mickey are living together, we know, although they don't really confirm it. We don't know what their relationship is with each other and do people now know Mickey's gay because that guy who came in to Mickey's dad's house asked him how his favorite bum boy was. So, they still haven't explained any of that. I'm hoping they will. Along with, where Ian and Mickey are living and if that's still Danny's house, well his aunt gave it to Ian, but, you know what I mean. I'm glad we saw Katie, although, I still hate how there has been no mention of Lip. And where is Katie living because Mimi took Katie at the end of the christening, but, we've seen Mimi in The Jockey with Karen and Jamie before eating and there's been no sign of her before. Okay, so, that's my rant about wanting things explained, but, I still love the show and I'm so happy it's back. I also was quite shocked about some of the things shown in the opening...you know what I'm talking about it, but, it looks like there's some good things to come.
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Post by davedoty on Jan 28, 2010 20:52:28 GMT -5
More on the new episodes:
I think Ian and Mickey must be living in Danny's grandfather's house, but all we've seen so far is the kitchen, so I can't be sure. I think the guy talking to Mickey was just teasing him, given Mickey's reply, but I can't be sure. I'm not sure where Katie was living, either. If it's just Paddy and Shane in that entire house, that would be the most logical lace, I assume. As for Lip, a mention would be nice, but since he's been gone for a couple of years now, he's probably a pretty low priority for them. I would rather they had told us what happened to Norma!
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Post by stl29tide on Jan 28, 2010 22:56:06 GMT -5
I'm just going to put it all in yellow.
I completely agree! I totally forgot to mention her, but, before the season started I was looking at the cast photos and they had Norma as a previous character. They have not made a single mention of her or where she went. Also, they didn't show Yvonne in this episode, but, her daughter is also gone this season. Yvonne's still there and so is Chesney, but, her daughter's not on the show anymore, so, it'll be interesting to see if they give an explanation of why she's gone too. There were a lot of holes the first couple episodes. They were still good, but, I'm hoping that as the season progresses they'll make more mentions of stuff like that.
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Post by davedoty on Jan 29, 2010 5:13:56 GMT -5
I'm not sure what the spoiler policy is for shows like this, that air in the UK and then reair in the US considerably later. Bonobochick, if you're reading this, should we spoiler protect things that have aired in the UK but not the US? Or as long as it's aired somewhere, is it all okay?
I noticed that Yvonne's daughter was gone, also. But as a minor character, it's easier to ignore her. The character (as opposed to the actress) may not even be gone. She was living at Lillian's, which is full of women. So it's possible she's still there, we just won't happen to see her. Which would leave the door open to bring her back easily.
Someone on another board suggested that Norma might likewise simply be off trucking somewhere, but that seems a little dodgier, since she lives outside the Gallagher's house, and is much more tightly integrated into the main cast than Yvonne's daughter.
On the plus side, Chesney has apparently been bumped up to regular cast member!
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Post by davedoty on Jan 29, 2010 5:46:58 GMT -5
As promised, now that I've caught up to the current episodes, I'm going to start embedding again. Keep in mind, this is current in the UK, so if you're watching the US releases, this is about a season and a half in the future, so watch at your own spoilage risk!
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carld2
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Post by carld2 on Jan 29, 2010 20:21:33 GMT -5
The first episode didn't do a lot for me, especially with all the headbutting, but I liked the second one.
The storyline about the butt play gone wrong was funny, especially Ian holding up that huge loaf of bread. I was very proud of Mickey for making such effort to track down his father when no one else cared. He will never be as important to Paddy as Jamie or Shane and that just seems to push him harder. I also liked that casual scene with the handsome cop Mickey had slept with. Oh, aren't you married? Yeah, but my wife was with every man in town. I'm living with a decorator now. Mickey, why don't you and Ian stop by...I wish they'd take him up on it.
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Post by Bonobochick on Jan 29, 2010 21:26:52 GMT -5
I am so behind on everything but I asked Gaytime to set up a mini-forum for you guys so you can have multiple threads like some of the other shows in the "other shows section" Or maybe you can make front page! Hopefully you will see it soon so you can set up spoiler threads and general discussion threads, one for UK Pace and another for US Pace (TWOP.com has this for a few shows that have across the pond mega delays in airing) and maybe a few character specific threads. ;D ;D To be fair, let's keep things spoilered here until it airs in the states or you get the clips up for the new series since right now, there isn't general access to the episodes. It's a tough call because the stateside airing is soooooo wonky for this show, unfortunately, but I don't want things ruined for those spoiler-free.
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Post by davedoty on Jan 30, 2010 0:09:55 GMT -5
That sounds great. I'm not sure if the show really requires a subforum in terms of number of posts, but the special airing situation may call for it. Not to mention that a show with two gay characters with separate relationships and storylines calls out for separate character threads!
I'm not even 100% sure if we've got any members who are staying unspoiled by the US viewings, but I would hate for any new people who drift in after catching it on Sundance to suddenly have a year and a half of spoilers at a go.
And, just to include something about the actual show: rewatch the scene with Mickey, Ian, and the cop. Check out Ian's face when the cop suggests they "both" come over. What was that look about?
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carld2
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Post by carld2 on Jan 30, 2010 4:53:09 GMT -5
I think he was shocked at how casual and forward the whole conversation was, especially since he didn't know the man and they were in a police station.
Isn't he more restrained than Mickey on these matters?
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Post by stl29tide on Jan 30, 2010 19:20:05 GMT -5
I don't know. Ian's never really seemed restrained. I mean, he openly flirts or has eye sex with guys that he meets. As someone once pointed out on the show, he'd had more sex than anyone in the Gallagher house. There's been a couple references to the fact that he's had a lot of men....we just don't get to see a lot of it.
We're still unclear of the relationship between Ian and Mickey at this point though because the show hasn't addressed it, but, I did notice that look. A lot of times, Ian seems up for it, unless something freaks him out, example: Mickey and his dog. After that it was a no-go. So, in my opinion, it was un-Ian like to make that specific face. If him and Mickey aren't together, I think he wants to be, even if he hasn't admitted it yet.
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Post by davedoty on Feb 2, 2010 9:54:33 GMT -5
Okay, I've decided they are definitely a couple based on one subtle but definitive piece of evidence: when Mickey walked in on Carl and Maxine using the sex trapeze and he averted his eyes, he actually averted his eyes and didn't sneak a peek. That's so un-Mickeylike, the only possible explanation is that he's in a relationship with Carl's brother.
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Post by devillies on Feb 2, 2010 13:55:38 GMT -5
i think they are probably a couple cause on the channel 4 site it said that they are living together as the perfect odd couple
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Post by davedoty on Feb 2, 2010 19:19:51 GMT -5
But the actual Odd Couple weren't actually a couple, so that doesn't necessarily mean anything.
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Post by stl29tide on Feb 2, 2010 23:41:01 GMT -5
So the new episode aired and they're definitely not a couple.....not yet anyway. Karen really is a Jackson. I think she has some serious post-partum mixed in with a whole lot of guilt and she's just officially lost it. I wonder what Paddy's going to do with the information he just heard from her. Sad that there's no more Yvonne. Felt really sad for both Carl and Max in this episode. I'm glad Ian was there to help her. I guess she's going to be living with him and Mickey for awhile which would explain why she eventually walks in on them. Poor Mickey too! Now that Max is there and can fix pipes, he's not going to have anyone to help work his....well, until Ian gets ahold of them.
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carld2
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Post by carld2 on Feb 3, 2010 4:56:40 GMT -5
Do you think the plumber will ever be back? That story seemed somewhat pointless, I know they had to have comic relief in an otherwise very heavy episode but I thought there would be more, since it made the previews.
You don't think they will ever have Maxine and Ian get together do you? Carl already seems jealous of Ian's relationship with Maxine and they were cuddling on the couch. I know Ian has been with a woman in the past, although he decided it wasn't for him, but even if he was with another woman I don't think he'd do that to Carl. Maybe they're going to write it as such that Carl is angry about their bond even though nothing is going on.
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margie
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Post by margie on Feb 3, 2010 7:17:48 GMT -5
No, I don't think Ian and Maxine will get together, but that doesn't mean that Carl won't be upset that Maxine turned to Ian when she had her abortion. If Maxine had any thoughts about Ian those will be dashed when she walks in on Ian and Mickey
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Post by davedoty on Feb 3, 2010 9:04:30 GMT -5
Yeah, I guess that settles the question of Ian and Mickey. I'm curious to know if the Maguires ever found out that Ian is gay. I know that several of the children know, but I don't know that Ian ever had a general coming out. He doesn't seem to be hiding it, but it also seems odd that Paddy and Mimi wouldn't think anything of their baby "moving in with a poof." The ending gives us a little more context for that bit in the credits. She already knows about Mickey, and I'm sure she must know about Ian at this point, even though I'm not sure if we've seen definitive on-screen evidence.
I also don't think Max and Ian will get together. I'm almost positive she knows he's gay, and I'm pretty sure her relationship with Carl will be an ongoing storyline. I also hope that they wouldn't go to that particular well with Ian twice. While they handled it better than most, the "gay guy sleeps with a woman" plot isn't really a great narrative space.
I am STUNNED that Yvonne left. Not only did I like her, but she and Stan were in the credits as regulars for the season, so they hit me out of left field with that one. Chesney winding up in Joe's care is creepy in the extreme. I'm glad they had the bit with Joe and Stan, just to let us know that they realize it's disturbing, and we should be horrified at this turn of events. I guess we should assume that Frank regained legal custody of Liam and Stella at some point?
I've loved Karen as a character since they reinvented her in season 4. And at the risk of turning a light conversation about a show into a Serious Discussion, my sister killed herself a little over a week ago, so this storyline is absolutely breaking my heart. I really, really hope this storyline ends well.
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carld2
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Post by carld2 on Feb 3, 2010 9:20:20 GMT -5
I'm trying to figure out what Joe is up to. As soon as someone beat Stan up I knew it was probably Joe, but I didn't expect all the stuff with him using this to get Yvonne and Stan out of the country to take over their business and Chesney. Is he working on some big revenge scheme? Or is he just insane?
The Karen story was very hard to watch, yes. You could see her getting worse and worse throughout the episode but I was still so upset when she was having her meltdown in the nursery, and also the giddiness on the trampoline. Those two upset me the most because they seemed the most real, and the least TV crazy. She's a great actress. I wonder what will happen with Jamie, because I do think Jamie loves her, even if he doesn't know how to be a better husband to her.
What was Karen like before season 4?
The Carl/Maxine relationship suddenly becoming so serious also surprised me. I'm not sure if Carl works as a serious character, I prefer him in a comedic role, although Elliot did a good job with the material.
They seem to be using Liam a lot more this season. He's fine, but I could do without the scenes where he gives advice.
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Post by davedoty on Feb 3, 2010 9:40:49 GMT -5
In the first season, she was a minor character who was a huge slut. In the pilot, she gave Lip a blowjob in exchange for homework and gave Ian a blowjob at Lip's request because Lip was trying to straighten him out. She started dating Lip, but had an affair with Frank (!) while he was living with her mother. She later gave a blowjob to a soldier to distract him while Lip stole a truck. Finally, she got a job at the Jockey pretending to be a lesbian and flirting with Jez, the bar's lesbian owner. Though she didn't follow through on that one. When Jez vanished, Karen magically became the bar's owner. (Don't ask how she went from high school to bartending to being able to buy the bar.)
Anyway, as you can see, she became a radically different character when Jamie joined the series and she was set up as a love interest for him.
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carld2
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Post by carld2 on Feb 3, 2010 10:39:53 GMT -5
Wow, she really was different.
I haven't seen most of the first few seasons. Were they a lot different from the show since the Maguires became more prominent?
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Post by davedoty on Feb 3, 2010 11:06:46 GMT -5
(I want to bring attention to an error I fixed in the above post: Karen traded sex for HOMEWORK. The typo made it hard to get what her first scene was actually about.)
Yes, so much so that some fans of the early seasons hate the later seasons and won't watch them.
While it always had a healthy dose of humor and wild situations, the early seasons were more restrained and realistic in tone. They didn't gloss over Frank's failings as much, and you really got a feeling of kids having to raise themselves with a worthless father. The most important characters were originally the oldest sister Fiona and her boyfriend Steve, and as soon as they left, the emphasis started shifting, and the show really became the "new" Shameless when Kev and Veronica, the relatively realistic and down-to-earth neighbors left, and the Maguires moved into their house.
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carld2
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Post by carld2 on Feb 3, 2010 13:18:08 GMT -5
Who did Dean Lenox Kelly and Maggie O'Neil play? Were they Veronica and Kev? I know them from other roles (and Maggie for all the supposed backstage drama she was involved in at Eastenders).
I can't imagine the show without the Maguires, especially Mickey. I have seen a few bits of the earlier episodes but not enough to have an opinion. I can imagine the show without them must have been different. I wonder if that's why some of the older fans liked the premiere, since the premiere was mostly about Frank and his kids kept talking about what a bad father he was.
I wanted to say I'm so sorry about your sister. I didn't see that part until I read your post again. I didn't mean to just carry the discussion on. I can't imagine what you're going through.
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Post by davedoty on Feb 3, 2010 14:13:12 GMT -5
Dean Lenox Kelly played Kev, but Maggie O'Neil played Shiela, Karen's mom and Frank's main love interest in the early seasons.
Thanks for the kind words. I don't begrudge anyone who doesn't want to dive into that in this forum, though.
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Post by davedoty on Feb 4, 2010 1:38:11 GMT -5
I forgot to mention: I thought Ian was a really awful brother in that last scene with Carl. Ian can claim he was staying neutral, but he was there emotionally to be supportive for Maxine, but for his brother, he wouldn't even let him say what it was. (Given that Ian was there at the hospital, I also think he had to be lying when he said that Maxine didn't say what the problem was.) It's possible to stay neutral and still listen and be emotionally supportive. Obviously he knows that, since he did it with Max. Ian pretty clearly chose sides, despite his lip service to the contrary, and it struck me as pretty awful.
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