Skam

[justinate]

Mar 30, 2019 16:36:01 GMT -5 jjose712 said:

Mar 30, 2019 13:06:19 GMT -5 justinate said:

They decided to condense their gay character's story into a couple of short, amateurish, webcam videos on his Youtube channel because they'd already assigned a LGBT character (bi girl) as the principal protagonist of season 2.

You keep saying that again and again but the truth is you don't know it. They changed the order of seasons, and maybe you are right and they won't make a Lucas season, but right now there's absolutely nothing to sustain what you are claiming. It's not like there's no bisexual girls on Skam France

Lucas on Skam Spain came out in season one, so what he is doing now is the normal development. Maybe his season will be just a love story without the coming out drama, maybe you are right and they skip a Lucas season, who knows.

I've already enumerated (more than once) ALL the ABUNDANT evidence to suggest Lucas will not have his own season on Skam Espana, but your response is always to argue there's a 0.00001% chance Lucas will still have his own season. We can now add one more piece of evidence contrary to that: the actor's reluctance to answer whether there will be a Lucas season - obviously not, but he can't say it outright because they will lose viewers and they want to string gay fans along for as long as possible. That's what I find so despicable. At least Skam Austin was upfront about the gay erasure from season 1. Skam Espana is therefore the worst offender.

I guess you are defensive of Skam Espana because it's your home country's product and it's hard to accept that they've done such a shitty thing to gay fans of the franchise. But I will continue to speak out, as I would for any British production that treats its gay character so shabbily. There is no benefit in continuing to watch and giving them the ratings/social media boost. If anything, continued viewing will harm the gay male community's right to representation because producers like Skam Espana will start to think it's okay to erase/downgrade gay men from our own stories.

Just because you have Elite running concurrently doesn't mean gay male representation in Spain is at an all-time high.

[HQ75]

Could we maybe have a separate thread for each of the Skam adaptations? There is a lot of discussion about the different versions and we aren't all watching or interested in every version so a lot of the conversation isn't relevant to what we are watching. Also some of the stuff folks are conjecturing about hasn't happened yet so it muddles the conversation and makes it very hard to follow. When it was just like 2 versions of Skam it made sense to have it all in once thread but there are like 5 now and it's kind of unruly, in my opinion. This way folks who don't plan to watch a particular iteration don't have to be involved in the discussion of that remake.

DRUCK Skam Italy Skam France Skam Spain are very different shows with multiple seasons. Everyone should get to discuss the version they wish to just not all at once please.

[HQ75]

I also wanted to say that each version of Skam is written by writers whose target audience is not all of the Western world but specifically the country in which the show is set. There are all kinds of cultural and other differences that factor into how the shows will be organized and written. Just because we have access to clips on Youtube doesn't mean we are all the target audience for every version of a show. We all have opinions (not always substantiated by actual facts) but we should also be respectful of the writers and audiences of each version and understand that we shouldn't assume we get to dictate how a show is written in another country. We shouldn't assume that we are the arbiter of what is or isn't the appropriate way to tell a story in a language we don't speak in an context we aren't part of. Context is everything and the beauty of this board and the shows we get to share is how differently the same situations can be interpreted or stories can be told. None of this stuff is personal and it's not like we are customers paying to watch all these different versions.

[ghettoe]

I enjoyed Skam FR although there were times it really nonsensically amped up the drama and I feel Lucas tears are rivaling the Mississippi river at this point. There are roughly about three crying scenes I would take out or have them filmed differently. On that note, where Skam France beat the original was in seriously clearing up some very problematic stuff like what Lucas did in season 1, his treatment of Emma and other shitty things he did. Skam FR did not joke its way out of it. On that note, I can safely say, wasn't a fan of the community. I noticed the French comments were more varied in that, it wasn't just always about Elu while the English comments were sometimes just so cringy. "Where is the gay?" type of comments and even worse is commenting on other Francetv videos with "GIVE US ELU!" YIKES.



On an unrelated note. I've just about lurked on this board for four years because my profile was never initially approved. I stopped checking after the two year mark...

[justinate]

Mar 30, 2019 22:35:26 GMT -5 HQ75 said:

I also wanted to say that each version of Skam is written by writers whose target audience is not all of the Western world but specifically the country in which the show is set. There are all kinds of cultural and other differences that factor into how the shows will be organized and written. Just because we have access to clips on Youtube doesn't mean we are all the target audience for every version of a show. We all have opinions (not always substantiated by actual facts) but we should also be respectful of the writers and audiences of each version and understand that we shouldn't assume we get to dictate how a show is written in another country. We shouldn't assume that we are the arbiter of what is or isn't the appropriate way to tell a story in a language we don't speak in an context we aren't part of. Context is everything and the beauty of this board and the shows we get to share is how differently the same situations can be interpreted or stories can be told. None of this stuff is personal and it's not like we are customers paying to watch all these different versions.

If gay men aren't supposed to speak out against the erasure of our stories, I'm not sure who should - or will. There's apparently very little appetite in other segments of the LGBTQ community to speak out, and the harmful perpetuation of this new trend will continue if no one calls it out for what it is. Sadly, it is very clear to me which way the wind is blowing and I feel sorry for gay boys growing up in the next decade; they are increasingly unlikely to see themselves represented onscreen.

You do realize how offensive it is to excuse gay erasure with "cultural differences"? That's usually a line used by people to explain why gay rights are non-existent in their countries! What kind of "cultural differences" does Spain have compared to Norway or France or Italy that require the gay character to be pushed into the background and his story quite literally handed to a bi girl, lock, stock and barrel?

It may be an inconvenient truth but English speakers are going to comment on the other remakes because Skam is an international franchise and English speakers (not just those for whom it's the first language, but from other countries who are yet to receive a Skam adaptation in their local language) are a HUGE part of why this show even became popular enough to spawn a global franchise. Unfortunately for them, Julie Andem screwed them over by replacing the Isak character with a bi girl in the only English-language remake, Skam Austin. Her action set off a domino effect which is seen most clearly in Skam Espana's decision to diminish the role of Lucas.

[grallonsphere]

I'm afraid this is a fight you cannot win Justinate... The PC culture has become so pervasive the stench is almost everywhere now. HQ75 usually goes about it in a obfuscating way, but the message is essentially the same: conform or shut the fuck up!

[jjose712]

Mar 30, 2019 20:27:21 GMT -5 justinate said:

Mar 30, 2019 16:36:01 GMT -5 jjose712 said:

You keep saying that again and again but the truth is you don't know it. They changed the order of seasons, and maybe you are right and they won't make a Lucas season, but right now there's absolutely nothing to sustain what you are claiming. It's not like there's no bisexual girls on Skam France

Lucas on Skam Spain came out in season one, so what he is doing now is the normal development. Maybe his season will be just a love story without the coming out drama, maybe you are right and they skip a Lucas season, who knows.

I've already enumerated (more than once) ALL the ABUNDANT evidence to suggest Lucas will not have his own season on Skam Espana, but your response is always to argue there's a 0.00001% chance Lucas will still have his own season. We can now add one more piece of evidence contrary to that: the actor's reluctance to answer whether there will be a Lucas season - obviously not, but he can't say it outright because they will lose viewers and they want to string gay fans along for as long as possible. That's what I find so despicable. At least Skam Austin was upfront about the gay erasure from season 1. Skam Espana is therefore the worst offender.

I guess you are defensive of Skam Espana because it's your home country's product and it's hard to accept that they've done such a shitty thing to gay fans of the franchise. But I will continue to speak out, as I would for any British production that treats its gay character so shabbily. There is no benefit in continuing to watch and giving them the ratings/social media boost. If anything, continued viewing will harm the gay male community's right to representation because producers like Skam Espana will start to think it's okay to erase/downgrade gay men from our own stories.

Just because you have Elite running concurrently doesn't mean gay male representation in Spain is at an all-time high.

No, i'm deffensive because you are overreacting about something that just didn't happen.
If they announce there won't be a Lucas season you'll have all the right to be offended but you are putting the stich before the wound is even made

[Zathras]

First, I went ahead and created a separate area for Skam with threads for the different remakes. Please move discussion to those threads. Let me know if I missed any shows that are still active.

[Zathras]

grallonsphere: Give the "PC culture" crap a rest. You're not doing yourself any favors with backhanded insults. Make a constructive argument.

HQ75: Norway, Italy, Germany, and Spain are part of the Western world. While there are certainly differences between those countries, some people (myself included) would like to think that there are some generally shared values. Unlike when compared with countries around the world. Besides, when have cultural differences ever stopped anyone on this board from making comments on shows developed in another country?

[scmian]

Mar 31, 2019 23:21:23 GMT -5 Zathras said:

First, I went ahead and created a separate area for Skam with threads for the different remakes. Please move discussion to those threads. Let me know if I missed any shows that are still active.

There is "WtFOCK" which is Belgium's version.

[HQ75]

Mar 31, 2019 23:36:48 GMT -5 Zathras said:

grallonsphere: Give the "PC culture" crap a rest. You're not doing yourself any favors with backhanded insults. Make a constructive argument.

HQ75: Norway, Italy, Germany, and Spain are part of the Western world. While there are certainly differences between those countries, some people (myself included) would like to think that there are some generally shared values. Unlike when compared with countries around the world. Besides, when have cultural differences ever stopped anyone on this board from making comments on shows developed in another country?

No where in my comments did I say we shouldn't comments on shows from other cultures and given my history on this board I don't believe you actually think that is what I meant. My point is very simple. We can't presume that every culture (even within the West) will interpret the same set of circumstances in the same way. One very glaring difference, for instance, across Western cultures is Age of Consent (which is a cultural value) and which can differ widely across the EU, Australia, New Zealand and the U.S. There are real cultural differences that actually make watching shows from different countries (even in the West) more
interesting. I don't see how what I said is in any way controversial or deserving of a personal reprimand from the moderator.

[justinate]

Apr 2, 2019 19:53:44 GMT -5 HQ75 said:

No where in my comments did I say we shouldn't comments on shows from other cultures and given my history on this board I don't believe you actually think that is what I meant. My point is very simple. We can't presume that every culture (even within the West) will interpret the same set of circumstances in the same way. One very glaring difference, for instance, across Western cultures is Age of Consent (which is a cultural value) and which can differ widely across the EU, Australia, New Zealand and the U.S. There are real cultural differences that actually make watching shows from different countries (even in the West) more
interesting. I don't see how what I said is in any way controversial or deserving of a personal reprimand from the moderator.

Given that your "cultural differences" comment was directed at me and appeared to opine that, as a non-Spaniard, I was not qualified to criticize Skam Espana, I would like to understand what "set of circumstances" unique to Spain would entitle them to commit gay erasure on their Skam remake. You quote an argument around age of consent but that is not relevant to the situation at hand. I really want to understand why you see gay erasure as justifiable in certain cultural contexts. It seems to be on an upward trend these days and understanding the root causes is the first step towards preventing its spread before it perpetrates real, serious harm to gay male youth in Spain and beyond.

[HQ75]

My comment was a general one about ALL OF US respecting cultural differences. I have no interest in fighting with anyone about ANY show and particularly not about shows I am not watching and currently I'm only watching Skam France.

[jjose712]

Apr 2, 2019 20:51:28 GMT -5 justinate said:

Apr 2, 2019 19:53:44 GMT -5 HQ75 said:

No where in my comments did I say we shouldn't comments on shows from other cultures and given my history on this board I don't believe you actually think that is what I meant. My point is very simple. We can't presume that every culture (even within the West) will interpret the same set of circumstances in the same way. One very glaring difference, for instance, across Western cultures is Age of Consent (which is a cultural value) and which can differ widely across the EU, Australia, New Zealand and the U.S. There are real cultural differences that actually make watching shows from different countries (even in the West) more
interesting. I don't see how what I said is in any way controversial or deserving of a personal reprimand from the moderator.

Given that your "cultural differences" comment was directed at me and appeared to opine that, as a non-Spaniard, I was not qualified to criticize Skam Espana, I would like to understand what "set of circumstances" unique to Spain would entitle them to commit gay erasure on their Skam remake. You quote an argument around age of consent but that is not relevant to the situation at hand. I really want to understand why you see gay erasure as justifiable in certain cultural contexts. It seems to be on an upward trend these days and understanding the root causes is the first step towards preventing its spread before it perpetrates real, serious harm to gay male youth in Spain and beyond.

Sorry but you are exaggerating a lot.

As i say you have all the right to be upset if there's no Lucas season (when that actually happens, because as far as i know Skam Spain is in its second season and they probably won't follow the original order either).

And i say it before, there were a good bunch of gay male characters on spanish teen shows, before and even right now. The more the better but there's no lack of representation.

What annoys me of the Skam remakes is that they seem to feel the need to change the gay storyline but not the others. They can change a gay male character for a lesbian or a trans character but they don't do that with the good bunch of straight characters of the show.

I'm all for not repeating the same plot again and again but this seems to happen a lot of times, i remember when they make an american version of Skins and they decided that it was a good idea to change Maxxie from gay to lesbian. The only character they changed and they even came with a lame excuse. If they wanted a lesbian character it would be as easy as add a new character or make one of the straight females a lesbian but no, they seem to think that gay character are all the same and totally interchangeable

[justinate]

Apr 4, 2019 15:41:21 GMT -5 jjose712 said:

And i say it before, there were a good bunch of gay male characters on spanish teen shows, before and even right now. The more the better but there's no lack of representation.

Could you share more on this? I can only think of El cor de la ciutat, Fisica o quimica, Merli, and now Elite. It feels like there has never been more than one gay male teen story on Spanish shows at any one time. Has there been more that we're not aware of? We have seen a number of telenovelas posted in recent years but they are from Portugal and Latin America, not Spain.

[maick73]

Apr 2, 2019 10:09:40 GMT -5 scmian said:

Mar 31, 2019 23:21:23 GMT -5 Zathras said:

First, I went ahead and created a separate area for Skam with threads for the different remakes. Please move discussion to those threads. Let me know if I missed any shows that are still active.

There is "WtFOCK" which is Belgium's version.

there are also "Skam italia" and "skam Austin"..

[davidlondon57]

Is anyone watching the muslim girl version of French skam? I started but rapidly lost interest.

The Italian version, season 3, is back to the rather boring girls' stories (yes that's Girls plural, and stories plural,) cos we can never have too many teenage girl stories can we? (Heavy sarcasm there!) But the two gay two gay boys do keep appearing. And in the most recent episode there was a nasty outburst of homophobia by some straight boys in a bar.

As for Druck, the German version, I find Matteo (the Isaak character) to be a very cute lad. However it's all so ridiculously unrealistic as David his love interest (the even character ) is trans. Matteo is a gay teenager and what are gay teenagers into? Yes, cock. So what happens when Matteo undoes David's trousers to find not a cock but a VAGINA? Big disappointment looming I think. (when I was 16 I had a girlfriend so I do know what a vagina looks like, feels like, and I can tell you it's not the same as a cock)

[grallonsphere]

Apr 7, 2019 6:07:01 GMT -5 davidlondon57 said:

Is anyone watching the muslim girl version of French skam? I started but rapidly lost interest.

I have SKAM Fr on alert but I always found that OG S4 was the weakest, so I'm watching but without much enthusiasm.  In fact, I'm only curious to see if/ how they'll address the mess that was Even's backstory.

I haven't watched S3 of SKAM Italia, or Austin, or any of the other remakes in fact.  I've already said my piece in the Druck sub-thread about what I think of their S3.

The only one I might look out for is the Dutch remake, since their Isak is another cutie.  It remains to be seen whether or not they'll butcher him like Matteo was.

[crissy]

This transphobic crap again...guys, if you don't like the show, you don't have to watch it.

[davidlondon57]

Apr 8, 2019 7:10:37 GMT -5 crissy said:

This transphobic crap again...guys, if you don't like the show, you don't have to watch it.

So you don't think gay teenage boys are into cock?

Or do you think matteo and david will just gaze into other's eyes and talk romantic poetry to each other?

[crissy]

Apr 8, 2019 7:12:34 GMT -5 davidlondon57 said:

Apr 8, 2019 7:10:37 GMT -5 crissy said:

This transphobic crap again...guys, if you don't like the show, you don't have to watch it.

So you don't think gay teenage boys are into cock?

Or do you think matteo and david will just gaze into other's eyes and talk romantic poetry to each other?

Seriously Davidlondon57, how many different profiles have you got on this blog?

[davidlondon57]

Apr 8, 2019 9:10:46 GMT -5 crissy said:

Apr 8, 2019 7:12:34 GMT -5 davidlondon57 said:

So you don't think gay teenage boys are into cock?

Or do you think matteo and david will just gaze into other's eyes and talk romantic poetry to each other?

Seriously Davidlondon57, how many different profiles have you got on this blog?

Wow, answering a question with a question

Good stuff!

So answer my question: 


So you don't think gay teenage boys are into cock?

Or do you think matteo and david will just gaze into other's eyes and talk romantic poetry to each other?

[grallonsphere]

I do have to ask as well David - how many of you are there ?

-----


As for the transphobia smear - it's really getting old. Druck chose to include a trans actor who might also portray a trans character. Therefore it's perfectly legitimate to question the pertinence of said choice. Especially considering how it directly impacts the main character of this season. I'm really getting tired of being told, and seeing others being told, to shut up about a topic directly related to that version of SKAM.

[davidlondon57]

Apr 8, 2019 16:36:41 GMT -5 grallonsphere said:

I do have to ask as well David - how many of you are there ?

-----


As for the transphobia smear - it's really getting old. Druck chose to include a trans actor who might also portray a trans character. Therefore it's perfectly legitimate to question the pertinence of said choice. Especially considering how it directly impacts the main character of this season. I'm really getting tired of being told, and seeing others being told, to shut up about a topic directly related to that version of SKAM.

I am me! My other profile was banned so I set up another one

[grallonsphere]

Well, have you considered that it might be wiser to avoid attacking others directly, especially the mod(s)!


Anyhow, I'd like your input on my post in the actual Druck thread.