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Post by chrischi on Aug 13, 2011 6:36:39 GMT -5
IMO the problem is that Olli's best characteristic even before Christian was that he was a sweet friend to others and somebody you could rely on like we are seeing again with Charlie and the Clarissa business. So it's easier for people who liked Olli before Christian already to see enough of the old Olli. Yeah, that's the point. There was an Olli before Christian, and Christian's Olli was somewhat different from the original Olli. So one can't say that x is characteristic for Olli when it was at best characteristic for Christian's Olli. Meanwhile Christian's most defining characteristic outside of Olli or love stories in general was being faithful/honorable/moral (or at least having strong ideas about that). He has none of that anymore. And he hasn't gotten anything interesting to replace that with. He's just *there*. And he doesn't do anything likable (like being an awesome friend or being really funny) or interesting (like being scheming or whatever). Very true. And I would like to have faithful/honorable/moral Christian back btw.
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Post by Difficult Diva on Aug 13, 2011 7:51:41 GMT -5
It was at the best a lovable characteristic as long as Christian was at least faithful to Olli. +1 Yet, I'm supposed to see "signs" from Christian that will convey him "missing the intensity" of his ex. Nope. Or, rely on what the VL Press office responds to someone in an email (for something that isn't being displayed, explaned or portrayed verbally on screen right now).
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Post by love11041987 on Aug 13, 2011 8:25:56 GMT -5
i knw i should not bring spoilers here......... christian havent been in spoilers lately............so we wil get to see christian "missing intensity" then..........VL writers dont think it is imp to write in those spoilers given to us ......which is sad
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Post by phoenix-feather on Aug 13, 2011 10:56:57 GMT -5
IMO the problem is that Olli's best characteristic even before Christian was that he was a sweet friend to others and somebody you could rely on like we are seeing again with Charlie and the Clarissa business. So it's easier for people who liked Olli before Christian already to see enough of the old Olli. Meanwhile Christian's most defining characteristic outside of Olli or love stories in general was being faithful/honorable/moral (or at least having strong ideas about that). He has none of that anymore. And he hasn't gotten anything interesting to replace that with. He's just *there*. And he doesn't do anything likable (like being an awesome friend or being really funny) or interesting (like being scheming or whatever). may be we are supposed to believe that his break up with Olli destroyed him, left him with nothing, coz like you said,right now, he really is just *there* for the sake of it in the most pathetic condition his character has ever been in..... Christian is an epitome of 'loss'
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pru
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Post by pru on Aug 13, 2011 10:58:01 GMT -5
Which of Olli's most lovable characteristics did the writers destroy? The part where he worships Christian blindly and is ok doing all the lifting and talking and pursuing in the relationship. Dayum, lolaruns, I was thinking his doormat qualities and bam! You just perfectly described them and the writers get major KUDOS from me for making them disappear, hopefully NEVER to be seen again.
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Post by lolaruns on Aug 13, 2011 11:01:06 GMT -5
may be we are supposed to believe that his break up with Olli destroyed him, left him with nothing, coz like you said,right now, he really is just *there* for the sake of it in the most pathetic condition his character has ever been in..... Christian is an epitome of 'loss' IMO they can't do something like that without actually showing it on screen. If they want to buy us a personality shift like that they actually have to show us the why and hows. Otherwise, if all of that just happens off screen/in our theories it doesn't count.
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Post by blaykee on Aug 13, 2011 11:07:57 GMT -5
The part where he worships Christian blindly and is ok doing all the lifting and talking and pursuing in the relationship. Dayum, lolaruns, I was thinking his doormat qualities and bam! You just perfectly described them and the writers get major KUDOS from me for making them disappear, hopefully NEVER to be seen again. He's still a doormat, just to someone new. Jessica. Allowing her to move in after destroying the plumbing, not making her pay, then lending her money even though she just bought expensive shoes.
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pru
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Post by pru on Aug 13, 2011 11:09:50 GMT -5
It was at the best a lovable characteristic as long as Christian was at least faithful to Olli. +1 Yet, I'm supposed to see "signs" from Christian that will convey him "missing the intensity" of his ex. Nope. Or, rely on what the VL Press office responds to someone in an email (for something that isn't being displayed, explaned or portrayed verbally on screen right now). Sorry, DD. We need to let that go because it was spoiled months ago and we haven't seen anything. Or maybe we just have not seen what we thought we were going to see. Maybe the "missing the intensity" happened right before he screwed Theresa or when Olli kicked him to the curb in the hallway and took off his ring and went to Majorca? Or some other time when he was punching his bag? Whatevs, I'm so over it. Especially since we barely get anything dealing with emotions out of him anyway.
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pru
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Post by pru on Aug 13, 2011 11:10:52 GMT -5
Dayum, lolaruns, I was thinking his doormat qualities and bam! You just perfectly described them and the writers get major KUDOS from me for making them disappear, hopefully NEVER to be seen again. He's still a doormat, just to someone new. Jessica. Allowing her to move in after destroying the plumbing, not making her pay, then lending her money even though she just bought expensive shoes. Yeah, Olli really looks like a doormat with Jessica...not!
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Post by phoenix-feather on Aug 13, 2011 11:12:20 GMT -5
may be we are supposed to believe that his break up with Olli destroyed him, left him with nothing, coz like you said,right now, he really is just *there* for the sake of it in the most pathetic condition his character has ever been in..... Christian is an epitome of 'loss' IMO they can't do something like that without actually showing it on screen. If they want to buy us a personality shift like that they actually have to show us the why and hows. Otherwise, if all of that just happens off screen/in our theories it doesn't count. then its probably just me. the writers have been LAZY, resolved.
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Post by teachgirl on Aug 13, 2011 11:22:41 GMT -5
IMO they can't do something like that without actually showing it on screen. If they want to buy us a personality shift like that they actually have to show us the why and hows. Otherwise, if all of that just happens off screen/in our theories it doesn't count. then its probably just me. the writers have been LAZY, resolved. Agreed. And that is why I have trouble getting very worked up about or angry at Christian for his behavior. How can I get angry at a cypher? He gets little screentime and no story. I think Miriam had more lines yesterday than he did in the previous episode.
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kira
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Post by kira on Aug 13, 2011 11:31:23 GMT -5
He's still a doormat, just to someone new. Jessica. Allowing her to move in after destroying the plumbing, not making her pay, then lending her money even though she just bought expensive shoes. Couldn´t agree more. It makes Olli look so ridiculous to not only live but also act like BFF with a woman, that 1. slept with his husband 2. accused his best friend of raping her 3. caused a water damage of several thousands of Euros, that Olli now has to pay for I want to vomit the more I think about it. At least I hope that this disgusting "friendship" soon won´t be the focus of a storyline anymore like it´s right now, although we´ll probably not get rid of it anytime soon. However, I can´t wait for this to be over and this fake "oh you are my BFF let me hug you and talk about your problems" thing to NOT be at the front of a storyline anymore.
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Post by mariesun on Aug 13, 2011 11:55:53 GMT -5
I don't understand one thing ... I'm not saying that Jessica is an angel .. but many people here think she is evil and don't deserve forgiveness but all want forgiveness for Christian , who hurt Olli much much more,and didn't do for forgiveness also almost nothing .. I don't get it I like Christian and I really want Chrolli together again , but I think Jessica is better as "friend" for Olli now , than Christian as Olli's husband .
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Trish
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Post by Trish on Aug 13, 2011 12:04:59 GMT -5
I don't understand one thing ... I'm not saying that Jessica is an angel .. but many people here think she is evil and don't deserve forgiveness but all want forgiveness for Christian , who hurt Olli much much more,and didn't do for forgiveness also almost nothing .. I don't get it I like Christian and I really want Chrolli together again , but I think Jessica is better as "friend" for Olli now , than Christian as Olli's husband . Like people say that Olli is harder Christian because he made promises to him and Jessica didn't is the reason that he shouldn't forgive him. The promises they made to each other, versus a person that has never shown care for another before, should be given a chance first. Olli tends to belive in people which is a good trait, but he does so with people that have no track record and he goes full steam ahead, without care of consequences, Rob comes to mind. Sure, because she was there for him when he was down, he should give her a break. He did. He gave her an apartment and she destroyed it. His obligation to her is over, but yet he continues to give. It's not expected to give a blind eye to Christian, but it would have been nice that if one of the times he wanted to talk, Olli said okay. Instead of shagging him then showing him the door.
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kira
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Post by kira on Aug 13, 2011 12:06:47 GMT -5
I don´t think Jessica doesn´t deserve forgiveness or is a truly evil person. It´s just the lightning speed in which she became Olli´s BFF, that is making me so angry. A few weeks ago she caused a damage that cost Olli thousands of Euros and not only did he forgive her, he also doesn´t want her to pay for it for no reason at all! (If it was me, the person responsible for such a thing would have to pay for everything no matter if best friend or worst enemy) And above all that Olli is telling her details about his marriage although she slept with his husband while putting his head in her lap. That´s beyond ridiculous even for a soap. Maybe I could be okay with her living at the flatshare and being somewhat friendly with Olli but what we are seeing now is a sick joke. And I´m not even talking about the fact that she accused Andi of raping her, which is, now that I think about it, pretty much an unforgiveable thing.
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Post by pru on Aug 13, 2011 12:07:26 GMT -5
I don't understand one thing ... I'm not saying that Jessica is an angel .. but many people here think she is evil and don't deserve forgiveness but all want forgiveness for Christian , who hurt Olli much much more,and didn't do for forgiveness also almost nothing .. I don't get it I like Christian and I really want Chrolli together again , but I think Jessica is better as "friend" for Olli now , than Christian as Olli's husband . Because she is a better friend than Christian is a husband and at LEAST she did apologize sincerely to Olli, even though he didn't want to hear it at the time, and showed through emotion that she felt bad. Christian has done none of that. He doesn't deserve forgiveness from Olli because he acts like he is not sorry and that Olli should just get over it. Because it was a lapse, a stunt, and didn't mean anything cuz he's gay...who cares if he is screwing Jockey girl like it's going out of style, he's still gay. His apology to Olli was lame because there was no real feeling behind it. More so lip service than anything and he just thinks Olli should forgive him because he has so many times in the past.
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kira
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Post by kira on Aug 13, 2011 12:13:56 GMT -5
Sure, because she was there for him when he was down, he should give her a break. He did. He gave her an apartment and she destroyed it. His obligation to her is over, but yet he continues to give. Tell it, twatts. ;D A civil or even somewhat friendly relationship between her and Olli could be okay but the current fake BFF thing is a joke.
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Trish
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Post by Trish on Aug 13, 2011 12:29:36 GMT -5
Sure, because she was there for him when he was down, he should give her a break. He did. He gave her an apartment and she destroyed it. His obligation to her is over, but yet he continues to give. Tell it, twatts. ;D A civil or even somewhat friendly relationship between her and Olli could be okay but the current fake BFF thing is a joke. Yeah it is. She hasn't done anything to deserve more than that. She was ready to run the "Incest" campaign, until Olli shamed her out of it. So for that she got a hug. She's a sad puppy because she has no friends. Theres a reasonshe has no friends. Has anyone bothered to ask why her roommates through her out? No. We are suppose tojust accept her and give her a break, when there has not really been anything to give her a break for. As you said, it has all come just a bit too easy and we are suppose to accept it. Helping him find a new love when she was instrumental in him losing his first.
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joanna
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Post by joanna on Aug 13, 2011 12:43:10 GMT -5
i knw i should not bring spoilers here Yup!...Just modified your post...
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Post by angelarose on Aug 13, 2011 12:57:33 GMT -5
I don't understand one thing ... I'm not saying that Jessica is an angel .. but many people here think she is evil and don't deserve forgiveness but all want forgiveness for Christian , who hurt Olli much much more,and didn't do for forgiveness also almost nothing .. I don't get it I like Christian and I really want Chrolli together again , but I think Jessica is better as "friend" for Olli now , than Christian as Olli's husband . Because she is a better friend than Christian is a husband and at LEAST she did apologize sincerely to Olli, even though he didn't want to hear it at the time, and showed through emotion that she felt bad. Christian has done none of that. He doesn't deserve forgiveness from Olli because he acts like he is not sorry and that Olli should just get over it. Because it was a lapse, a stunt, and didn't mean anything cuz he's gay...who cares if he is screwing Jockey girl like it's going out of style, he's still gay. His apology to Olli was lame because there was no real feeling behind it. More so lip service than anything and he just thinks Olli should forgive him because he has so many times in the past. I don't recall Jessica sincerely apologizing to Olli or showing she truly felt bad about what happened. And everytime she mentions that night in conversations with others she always seems like she thinks it was no big deal or wasn't the wrong thing to do. She manipulated Olli and worked his kindness to her benefit to first insinuate herself into the building and then the flatshare. She didn't do that because she cares about Olli, she did it for her own benefit. Olli gave her first a room in the building, then the flatshare, he loans her money and forgives a huge debt she owes for something she intentionally did, again for her own selfish benefit regardless of the consequences for Olli, for no reason at all. He's given and given and she's taken and taken and she's given him no reason at all to forgive her other than that she "owed" him nothing where Christian is concerned. And as others have said she was never apologetic or remorseful about accusing Olli's best friend of rape. Not "owing" somebody something doesn't mean you should be an amoral person, and she was, in the situation with Christian and the one with Andi. She has done nothing to earn Olli's forgiveness either, whether it's easier for him to forgive her than Christian or not (and he didn't have to forgive either of them). And the fact that she's developed an affection for Olli after the fact (however much affection Jessica can develop for someone) and only after he's given and given to her isn't proof of her remorse or regret, and to me she looks even more selfish because she only developed that affection for Olli after he showed he'd help her and be kind to her and give to her. If Olli had nothing to offer her or didn't help her when she was down on her luck and she manipulated his grief to her benefit in getting a room at NL, would she be befriending him or being 'apologetic'? I doubt it. Now she's offering him some amount of friendship, but only after she's taken and taken from Olli and he's blindly given where she's concerned. Seems kinda like a doormat to me.
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Post by lolaruns on Aug 13, 2011 13:07:19 GMT -5
But Olli covered that. He said that from his perspective she was there for him when he was all messed up because of the accident.
I also don't think that she has apologized to him about the Christian thing either, but I think she's just the type who refuses to admit, to herself and others, that she did wrong. We saw that in her "help Olli" video where she talks about what a great guy Olli is and how she's almost sorry and looks sad. I don't think it's in her nature to apologize even if she is/were sorry. (and I wouldn't rule it out that Olli realizes that about her due to the Olivia similarities, BUT I'm violating my own rule with this about how if it's not in the show it's just pointless fanwanking).
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Post by blaykee on Aug 13, 2011 13:10:44 GMT -5
Because she is a better friend than Christian is a husband and at LEAST she did apologize sincerely to Olli, even though he didn't want to hear it at the time, and showed through emotion that she felt bad. Christian has done none of that. He doesn't deserve forgiveness from Olli because he acts like he is not sorry and that Olli should just get over it. Because it was a lapse, a stunt, and didn't mean anything cuz he's gay...who cares if he is screwing Jockey girl like it's going out of style, he's still gay. His apology to Olli was lame because there was no real feeling behind it. More so lip service than anything and he just thinks Olli should forgive him because he has so many times in the past. I don't recall Jessica sincerely apologizing to Olli or showing she truly felt bad about what happened. And everytime she mentions that night in conversations with others she always seems like she thinks it was no big deal or wasn't the wrong thing to do. She manipulated Olli and worked his kindness to her benefit to first insinuate herself into the building and then the flatshare. She didn't do that because she cares about Olli, she did it for her own benefit. Olli gave her first a room in the building, then the flatshare, he loans her money and forgives a huge debt she owes for something she intentionally did, again for her own selfish benefit regardless of the consequences for Olli, for no reason at all. He's given and given and she's taken and taken and she's given him no reason at all to forgive her other than that she "owed" him nothing where Christian is concerned. And as others have said she was never apologetic or remorseful about accusing Olli's best friend of rape. Not "owing" somebody something doesn't mean you should be an amoral person, and she was, in the situation with Christian and the one with Andi. She has done nothing to earn Olli's forgiveness either, whether it's easier for him to forgive her than Christian or not (and he didn't have to forgive either of them). And the fact that she's developed an affection for Olli after the fact (however much affection Jessica can develop for someone) and only after he's given and given to her isn't proof of her remorse or regret, and to me she looks even more selfish because she only developed that affection for Olli after he showed he'd help her and be kind to her and give to her. If Olli had nothing to offer her or didn't help her when she was down on her luck and she manipulated his grief to her benefit in getting a room at NL, would she be befriending him or being 'apologetic'? I doubt it. Now she's offering him some amount of friendship, but only after she's taken and taken from Olli and he's blindly given where she's concerned. Seems kinda like a doormat to me. It's the definition of doormat.
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Post by lolaruns on Aug 13, 2011 13:11:26 GMT -5
Is Jessica his doormat then too because she ended the campaign for him?
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Post by angelarose on Aug 13, 2011 13:20:23 GMT -5
But Olli covered that. He said that from his perspective she was there for him when he was all messed up because of the accident. I also don't think that she has apologized to him about the Christian thing either, but I think she's just the type who refuses to admit, to herself and others, that she did wrong. We saw that in her "help Olli" video where she talks about what a great guy Olli is and how she's almost sorry and looks sad. I don't think it's in her nature to apologize even if she is/were sorry. (and I wouldn't rule it out that Olli realizes that about her due to the Olivia similarities, BUT I'm violating my own rule with this about how if it's not in the show it's just pointless fanwanking). But so was Christian, and Olli didn't forgive him. Christian tried to help Olli in that situation and Olli wouldn't let him, and why he let Jessica when up to that point they weren't friends and she wasn't remorseful or apologetic, is beyond me. And that isn't exactly a reason to forgive someone who hasn't apologized or shown remorse for the wrong thing they did. Her not being the type to apologize and admit wrong doesn't mean she should be forgiven without doing it. Isn't that then a double standard? She hasn't atoned for her mistakes either, and giving Olli a hug when he was sad isn't enough. Besides, Olli could forgive her and be civil with her, but to give and give to her and so thoroughly embrace and befriend and accept her, especially with no real remorse or apology from her, goes beyond being absurd.
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Trish
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Post by Trish on Aug 13, 2011 13:21:12 GMT -5
Is Jessica his doormat then too because she ended the campaign for him? She did that because she knew it was wrong and he had done a lot for her. Plus she knew that it really wasn't right. He felt sorry for her because he was nice to him when he was down, is a good reason to give her a few extra days to find a place. Not to forgive the whole debt and let her move in.
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