HQ75
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Post by HQ75 on Feb 21, 2013 20:56:36 GMT -5
my problem is that the writers constructed this scene so that the audience would feel it was sami's fault. I am not falling for this contrived scene and sami is not going to lose will. Once he finally opens up his eyes he will be running to her help. They are trying to make people not feel completely negative about gabi. I do not feel it was sami's fault and guess what if gabi had acted right she would not have mother bear sami on her case and if will had not supported julie over his mother sami might not have felt the need to go over to gabil. Julie did not provide for him all his life. I am just waiting for next week after this brouhaha is over. Yes sami should not go into apologize but guess what sometimes people make irrational decisions when they are being jumped on. Everybody will supposdedly cares about and trusts, sami, lucas, sonny,ej even justin have given him hints that all is not kosher. so why ignore them and just believe nick and gabi and rafe. Will needs to man up[/b].[/quote] What do you want Will to do? Lock Gabi in her room until the baby is born? He asked her to do the paternity test. That's all he can do. It seems like you want him to read people's minds and somehow intuit that they actually know something about Gabi that he doesn't when from his perspective, he KNOWS Gabi better than anyone who is trying to cast aspersions against her. Will is very loyal. When everyone in the world believed EJ killed his father, Will knew it wasn't true and couldn't be swayed and he was right. I think "man up" is a sexist term. There is no right or wrong way to be a man. Will is a man. Whether he deals with this situation the way you think he should don't negate him being a man. Each man is different. Will is trying to support the mother of his baby. Lucas and Sami are not trust worthy when it comes to good judgement. Will has no reason to listen to them. Lucas doesn't even know Gabi and neither Sami or Lucas know much about Nick. They are acting off of instinct and instinct is not a good enough reason for Will ti see Gabi as his enemy. The people who actually know what Gabi did and Nick's part in hiding it are Rafe, Justin, EJ, Chad and Sonny and neither of them are willing to just tell Will the truth, the actual truth, which would give him actual evidence that Gabi is capable of being ruthless if she's desperate. So what is Will supposed to do? As long as the baby is inside Gabi he can't do anything except be there for her and prepare for the birth. He can't legally do anything else until the baby is born. People want Will to go off on Nick but all that would do is antagonize him further and all of the Hortons along with him and Will literally has no evidence to prove that Nick has any ulterior motives. Nick not liking him because he's gay and him not liking Nick because he's a prat is not really anything Will can do anything about. Plenty of fathers and mama's boyfriends don't like each other. Plus, they are cousins so it's not like Will can have EJ make Nick disappear. I don't get what folks want him to do? Fighting with Nick all the time would just be more stress for Gabi and I think Will is smart to not want to contribute to that. I can't stand Gabi. I don't have a lot of sympathy for her at all and if she wasn't carrying the baby I'd want Abby to kick her pathetic behind all over Horton Square. But until she has the baby, there is no point in antagonizing her or Nick, IMO.
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HQ75
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Post by HQ75 on Feb 21, 2013 18:13:40 GMT -5
Is there really no statement from the show? He's a major cast member You'd think they would announce that he'd left the show. That's weird.
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HQ75
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Post by HQ75 on Feb 21, 2013 18:12:27 GMT -5
Up until this point, Will has not reason not to trust Gabi's intentions and she HAS been a really good friend to him and it makes sense that he is loyal to her. Gabi is not Nick. In Will's eyes, Gabi is strong and independent minded because that is how she has always been with him and in his presence.
Will doesn't know everything we know about Nick. He knows that Nick has may a few randomly homophobic comments (but many men in his life have done that and they love him so that doesn't exactly make Nick evil in his eyes, just unpleasant to be around and stupid) T, Lucas and Roman have (sometimes inadvertently) said worse things in Will's presence so far than Nick has.
I just think viewers have too much insight into Nick and Gabi to see the situation objectively.
Will wants to support Gabi because she is pregnant and stressed out and he doesn't want to make the situation worse for her. That is his focus. He's not suspicious of Nick because he hasn't been given a reason to be. Whereas Sami and EJ are suspicious of EVERYONE so there is no reason for Will to take them as seriously as they want him to.
Will believes that he and Gabi's friendship is stronger than any other influence because that has been his experience so far with Gabi.
I think without the knowledge that Nick is scheming and that Gabi is actually capable of major scheming and duplicity, there is no way for Will to know he needs to be as cautious about Nick as Sami thinks he needs to be.
I'm not sure what "step up" means in this context. Will is singularly focused on Gabi and the baby and taking care of his life. There isn't much more Will can do as long as the baby is still inside Gabi and Gabi has assured him repeatedly that she wants to raise this kid with him and that he will be heavily involved in his daughters life (despite the Hortons pretending Will doesn't exist)
If I didn't know what I know about Gabi, I would also think Sami was being her usual controlling, paranoid suspicious self and want her to back away.
Even Rafe and Kate aren't sharing their suspicions about Nick with Will because they don't want him to be worried.
So as far as background machinations are concerned, Will is completely in the dark. He doesn't like Nick and he knows Nick isn't particularly fond of him but He and Nick don't have to like each other in order for Will and Gabi to be parents to their daughter.
Will has made it clear to Nick that under NO circumstances will he give up rights to his child and he intends to be a father to his child.
I'm not sure what more Will can do until Nick and his plotting is unmasked.
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HQ75
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Post by HQ75 on Feb 21, 2013 17:21:47 GMT -5
I think this is why Will is so skittish about having Sami in his life and involved with anything having to do with the baby. His entire life has been Sami going off the rails and spinning around making things worse like some tiny Tazmanian devil of GRRR. She's almost incapable of a measured response. The times she's had to hold her tongue she's looked like she was gonna explode. Having a mother like that who literally does not listen to you and lies to your face about her intentions is maddening. This is why I think Will needs to not look to Sami to help him and Sami needs to stay far away. He should have EJ and Kate in his corner because they are much better at finessing a situation. Sami is literally making everything worse. And I'd like to know why Lucas isn't questioning all of the Hortons licking Nick's taint all the time. Given how he's always trying to "make it up" to Will, you'd think he'd call them all in the room and say "What's up with not supporting Will, the father of this baby? He needs you" That missing piece is beyond me.
I don't thin Abby should be ashamed of being a virgin but I do think it's bizarre that she is given that she's had adult relationships. Retcon or not, it's a weird storyline. Virginity is so fetishized in the US popular culture. Sex should be seen as a normal, natural part of growing up, not some sacred gift you"give" to someone or "take" from someone. The whole thing just makes me role my eyes. Which is unfortunately because I really like crazy Abby and I actually like her and other Cameron together. They had good chemistry and it could have been interesting to have them play that scenario out in the context of Jack dying. Now I'm just like, UGH, get over it.
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HQ75
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Post by HQ75 on Feb 21, 2013 3:45:25 GMT -5
I know it's like wishing water wasn't wet, but just once I'd like to see Sami leave the bombast at home and actually try to finese a situation. Even if everything she thinks about Gabi is true, yelling at her and getting up in her face will only make her more afraid and therefore more desperate and more likely to cling to Nicki. Sami should be working the "you're like a sister to me, I just don't want this to tear everyone apart, having everything in writing just makes everything clear, what if something happened to you? Will would have no legal relationship to the baby...." Sami is supposed to be a schemer. She's doing it wrong. LOL
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HQ75
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Post by HQ75 on Feb 20, 2013 21:01:17 GMT -5
The difference is Melanie never did anything to Gabi to deserve what Gabi did to her. And Will was not pleased at all when Gabi told him she was trying to break up Chad and Melanie. In fact, Will was almost angry about it. I can't see him being less angry after he finds out that Gabi left Melanie in Andrew's clutches for 2 weeks knowing he could do anything to her and no one would know where she was. Will shot EJ. Rafe has beat EJ up at least twice since I have been watching this show. Sami shot EJ, if you are a Dimera, it is dangerous and everybody in town knows that.
There is no way that anyone who won't have sympathy for Will who was 14, under the influence of alcohol and had suffered through Sami and EJ and Nicole's baby/marriage shenanigans
Plus, EJ has forgiven Will. Who is Gabi to judge Will? Even she shouldn't be that deluded.
What Gabi did was completely selfish, callous, premeditated and calculated. If the Dimeras had known Melanie was in the tunnels they would have immediately rescued her and Andrew wouldn't have been there to set of the explosion that ruined half the town and killed two people. Andrew would have never made it out of the apartment where he was holding Melanie for 2 weeks if Gabi had simply told the police where he was and that he had Melanie.
You can't compare that to Will shooting EJ
I think when the secrets start spilling, Abbigail will understand why Chad was so obsessed, she will understand what's been bugging Sonny and everything she suspected about Gabby will be proven. I think Abby is going to be Gabi's worse enemy. And that girl is crazy. She would have ripped Nicole apart with her bare hands if they had let her go.
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HQ75
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Post by HQ75 on Feb 20, 2013 20:53:24 GMT -5
I think unless we know an actor personally, there is no way to tell why they don't do something we wish they would do.
Maybe he just doesn't want to tweet as much (lots of actors don't tweet or find Twitter overwhelming so they tweet infrequently).
You can't ascribe motives to someone you don't know and haven't spoken with. It's just not fair to them.
Personally I think it's better when actors aren't constantly on screen and in interviews talking about their storylines.
The storylines should speak for themselves and the writers are really the people responsible for the storylines so actor's should have to defend them.
I also think these actors get inundated with tweets constantly, thousands a day an that must be exhausting.
I'm sure he'll tweet again when he has something he wants to draw fans attention to.
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HQ75
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Post by HQ75 on Feb 20, 2013 19:29:41 GMT -5
I swear it's like Ste has regressed 4 years. He has no sense of humor he's all aggression all the time. It's just not cute in any way. When did he become such a freaking baby? And the only reason he's hissing at JP is because JP had sex with Brendan. I know they have never liked each other but they could have actually made a fresh start but Ste is like a rabid chihuahua around JP. He didn't even ask Doug if he was ok or did he need a doctor or anything because he was so busy fussing about JP Then to start a fight in the school and be all nasty and caveman during the presentation? UGH! He needs to be sedated.
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HQ75
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Post by HQ75 on Feb 20, 2013 18:41:23 GMT -5
I don't think so. Sami telling EJ she wants Nick gone doesn't mean she's asking him to do it. Sami can do her own dirty deeds. I think the difference is Sami is confiding to her boyfriend what she plans to do. At least that's the read I got out of it. ::shrugs:: I agree. I think she was just venting. But we know EJ will want to help since he already can't stand the air Nick breathes. LOL ;D
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HQ75
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Post by HQ75 on Feb 19, 2013 22:24:27 GMT -5
I think that should give Eric more time to work through his issues. It's bad enough that everybody has been kinda waiting for the priest to break his vows (bless his heart ) but he's also in such mental anguish it wouldn't seem right for him to get involved right away. I do like him and Nicole in scenes (I find her a challenging character because I love the actress but the character just makes me so incredibly creeped out sometimes)
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HQ75
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Post by HQ75 on Feb 19, 2013 21:25:30 GMT -5
Its AMAZING to see John Paul and Doug flirting with no angst. I haven't been this excited since Spike. And I totally get why JP dislikes Ste. It's a shame they didn't get to reunite when Ste wasn't acting like a back alley cat and was actually being sweet and charming. They might have actually become friends.
BUT ANYWAY, JP and Doug flirting was FABULOUS.
To see JP so confident and grown up and manly and sexy. I love it.
And for Doug to smile and seem light as air for the first time in a year.
I really hope they actually get to date and court for a while before the inevitable misery sets in.
So excited that JP is back!
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HQ75
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Post by HQ75 on Feb 19, 2013 18:08:01 GMT -5
I wish the poll was coming a bit later since they aren't together now. It would be easier to campaign for them if they weren't broken up, LOL. Re: Days Of Our Lives - General Discussion « Reply #5678 Today at 6:06pm » A change of subject. Glaad-Top 10 couples to root for. WilSon is #1. www.glaad.org/blog/valentines-day-tvs-ten-lgbt-couples-root
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HQ75
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Post by HQ75 on Feb 19, 2013 18:01:55 GMT -5
Let me take a crack at this. The elephant in the room and the cause of the Will and Sonny break is the mountain of lies told by Will about the baby and therefore the sex with Gabi. If Will and Sonny ever hope to have a healthy reunion and subsequent relationship, all of these lies need to be addressed between the two guys and all concerns need to assuaged. If I were Sonny, given everything Sonny has seen and heard, Will has not done any of that. The Brian and Sonny should be addressed as well; but that did not cause the break-up unlike the Will/Gabi mess. Until Will and Sonny resolve these issues and lies like healthy adults should, I suspect the debate will continue to rage about those events from months ago. Willa's self-esteem and dedication to the relationship (not to mention his own sexuality) are at the heart of the lies, which sure seem like they could happen again down the road. You say that is what has to happen as if there is some law or rule that dictates this. The only thing that "has" to happen is what the characters want and the characters are not written by anyone here on this board. We can only deal with what actually happens on screen, not what we think should happen in our world if we were the writer of Days of Our Lives. Everything you write is so absolute, it's like trying to have a conversation with a brick wall and it's frustrating because we are all here to talk about this damned show together. There is no elephant in the room WE ALL KNOW what happened and we have discussed it on this board until all our faces are blue (at least those of us capable by virtue of pigment to have a blue face, HA! So what if the writers don't choose to write the "reunion" the way you want? Were all just supposed to be mad about it and not continue to enjoy and discuss the show going forward? I just find your demands about what the characters HAVE to do to be intractable. You're not presenting yourself as someone who actually wants to discuss the show with others but more so someone who has a predetermined idea about how things MUST play out and if they don't then nothing else matters. I'm only addressing you directly because I find your demeanor to be obstructionist. It is very possible that isn't your intention. I know tone is difficult to communicate in writing with people who don't know each other. But it's just like everything you say is "My way or the high way" and if the characters don't fall in line, lock step, we should all wish them to hell. I personally, find that kind of attitude on a discussion board makes actually discussion and development of the discourse impossible. That's all I'm going to say about it. Obviously we can all self select ourselves away from the thread if we don't like the way it's going. That includes me. I realize I'm probably banging my head against a brick wall. Sigh... ;D I would just like to come on this board one day and not have the same 4 people saying almost literally the same exact thing about the characters no matter what new stuff has happened, no matter what the characters say or do.
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HQ75
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Post by HQ75 on Feb 19, 2013 16:55:54 GMT -5
The problem is that we are all on a discussion board TOGETHER. You are not just at home talking to your friends who all think the same way you do and will just agree with you without questioning things. We are supposed to be having a conversation about the show as it unfolds and it is impossible to do that if the only thing folks want to talk about is how much they hate one character or the other. If this was your personal blog, or tumblr, you could just post repeatedly the same thing and everyone who came to your blog would have to suck it up or not visit your blog. But this is not anyone's personal blog, it's supposed to be a conversation with everyone talking to each other. And repeating the same thing over and over again with different words or slightly different emphasis does NOT allow the conversation to move forward. We all know what Will did, we all know how Sonny responded. If we can't even talk about moving away from the past and what happened and talking about what is happening now, what is the point of having a conversation with each other? I guess that is what I meant by "What's done is done". How unsatisfying is it to try to talk to someone who just repeats themselves without incorporating any new information or moving in any way along with the topic? I also think that some things are open to interpretations and some things are not. This isn't a fanfic thread. We have to trust what the writers write and what the characters say and what we know happened on screen. We can't just supplant our own judgement or beliefs for Will's or Sonny's. Whether we like it or not, Sonny and Will only exist in the universe of the show so we can ONLY judge them but what we know about them as per what has been written. That is the only way we can all be talking about the same thing and have any reasonable resemblance to an actual conversation I guess it comes down to why each of us chooses to participate in this thread. Is it just to make the same point over and over and be the immovable object or is it to actually engage other's opinions about what is happening on screen. People here frequently say "Don't tell me what to do or how to talk or what to say" as if they are just talking to themselves and others don't have to interact with or navigate through their words. Personally I think that isn't really conducive to discussion. Will and Sonny aren't going anywhere as characters so wouldn't it be more conducive to actual conversation to get beyond fighting about who is right and who is wrong and who is a bad boyfriend? We're being told by the show that they love each other so we have to accept that they love each other, period. Those are the fact. Whether we like it or not, Sonny and Will (despite everything) are still very much in love. Whether they manage to get back together any time soon is where we are now. I honestly would like someone to explain to me the point of continuing to rehash why Will slept with Gabi and how she got pregnant and "Oh WILL LIED". How does that move the conversation forward at all? And here's a for instance, Will and Gabi BOTH said that sleeping together was awful and horrible and a big mistake they wish had never happened. On screen, Will looked physically ill immediately afterward and ran out of the room with practically one shoe on. There was nothing about that incident that seemed even remotely like Will enjoying sex with Gabi or vice versa. Yet 6 months later, people are still questioning the incident as if it just happened and questioning's Will's sexuality, and why he did it , etc. We know why he did it. He SAID why he did it. There is no more mystery. Surely that has be discussed TO DEATH. There is no merit in continuing to fight about whether or not Will is gay or has accepted that he is gay. I think when we are talking TO EACH OTHER on a message board, we should all be asking ourselves what is the point of saying what we are about to say and whether or not we need to say it repeatedly or if someone else has JUST SAID IT if we need to say it again. I think that would go a long way into making this discussion less contentious and keep it from being shut down all the time.
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HQ75
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Post by HQ75 on Feb 18, 2013 21:09:46 GMT -5
At some point, you have to let things go. Rehashing the same thing over and over is pointless. It serves no purpose except to impede progress. Sonny and Will are already broken up, all of the Hortons (except maybe Lucas and Abby) have their mouths firmly wrapped around Nick nether regions, and Gabi and Nick are actively plotting against Will. So you have actions and consequences, right there.
I don't get why folks are STILL so mad about it. It's done now. You can't change. Will can undo what he did. He apologies and he's genuinely sorry and more importantly he's learned from his choices. He knows what he did was wrong and understands why it was wrong.
I don't know what more folks expect from the character. I'm being totally serious. I feel like life is short and it takes much more energy to be mad at someone FOREVER than it does to just move on and get past it (either you can forgive them, or you can't.)
It's like viewers are stuck on some endless treadmill of anger about what happened with Will and Gabi. I think it's an incredibly limiting way of viewing characters and people in real life when one act defines them forever.
I can think of a hundred worse things Will could have done to Sonny so the idea that not telling him about the baby is the absolute end of all things seems extreme and hyperbolic to me.
People lie. At the end of the day, all humans have to decide if they can forgive someone for a lie and YES, context and intention DO matter.
Being lied to hurts. But it does matter whether or not someone's intention was to hurt you when they lied to you. At least it does to most critically thinking people. Not all lies are the same. Clearly.
Obviously Will is struggling, has been struggling for a year now with what kind of man he's going to be, how to be himself, shifting from teenager to adult. No knowing how to handle the situation with Gabi is part of that (as far as I'm concerned).
I think it's too simplistic to break people into "bad people" and "good people" categories and I also think it's presumptions to decide for Sonny what he can or can't forgive. As a character, he is an individual. He has his on principles and moral compass.
And again, I say, if he was able to understand and forgive Victor and Brady for getting Chad and Maggie shot, and he was able to forgive T for being a raging Chihuahua of homophobic bile, surely, he can find it in his heart to forgive Will.
Doesn't really matter what I or any of us think about what Will did or what kind of person we think it makes him or whether or not we (as individual real people) would forgive someone who did what Will did.
It only matters what Sonny thinks, how he feels and what he would do in this situation and as we can already see, his anger is subsiding and he's now starting to see the shades of gray that Justin tried to show him about why people lie.
I think Sonny (and some viewers) have put so much emphasis on the lie itself (and the fact that Will had sex with Gabi) that they aren't thinking about the bigger picture with any perspective.
At any rate, I feel like where we are today is that Sonny is getting a better understanding of what is in Will's heart and how Will feels about everything that has happened and that is very important for Sonny to know.
Despite the hostility about Will (and I still don't get the rabidness of it) I think we can all agree that the character is not going anywhere so he has to be redeemed somehow, at some point or there is no reason to have him on the show.
A month is long enough to be mad at anyone (as far as I'm concerned) and when you tell someone you love them that you are there for them, that you will always be there for them and they can always come to you, you should mean it. Baring infidelity, physical or emotional abuse, or actually falling out of love with someone most couples who love each other can work shit out if they actually try.
I also think abuse has been used too lightly. Abusive behavior is inherently repetitive and it is intentionally hurtful. It's about a premeditated pattern of behavior.
If Will had been lying to Sonny about everything in his life, his name, his school plans, where he works, how old he is, whether or not he likes chicken AND also lied about the baby secret, then I'd say it was a pattern of lying.
Will told one big lie and to protect that lie he had to keep lying but it was all connected to the same thing, it was not some overall plan to deny Sonny his rights to break up or to hurt Sonny in anyway.
It was a lie born out of fear, regret and inexperience and I think Sonny can forgive that.
Now that Sonny has had some space and time to think and not just react, I think he can try to see things from Will's side.
So even if they don't get back together, Sonny at least can appreciate where Will was coming from (even if some viewers never will).
This is a kid from a mob family. If ever there was someone who could put things in context and understand relativity, it should be Sonny Kiriakas.
His own family is proof that people are not just defined by one action, people can grow and change and learn from their mistakes and bad decisions.
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HQ75
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Post by HQ75 on Feb 17, 2013 3:19:32 GMT -5
Whatever folks think about Will, he had suffered enough. There is no reason in the world why he should have to sit there watching Sonny and Brian make goo goo eyes at each other. Sonny has every right to date Brian as much as he wants. But why does Will have to be part of that? That's totally unfair. Will didn't cheat on Sonny, he didn't stop loving Sonny and he wasn't trying to hurt Sonny. I think folks have gone overboard with the Will must suffer stuff. Will never did ANYTHING to Brian and as Sonny once pointed out to Brian, Brian knows nothing about Will's life, he has no idea what it took for him to come out or what he has gone through to not hate himself. Brian is in no position to judge Will. Will's life has nothing to do with Brian. It's none of his business and that includes what goes on between Will and Sonny. Brian was not defending Sonny or trying to avenge him, he was playing "Naa naa naa naa, I got yo man". It had nothing to do with wanting to protect Sonny and everything to do with saying "See Will, I'm a real gay man and you are inferior". Brian believes he's better than Will, not just for Sonny but as a gay man. He's done everything but make a poster. People who are that sanctimonious and judgmental (hello Rafe!!!) are just BEGGING to be pushed off their pedestal and I for one will be happy to see it happen (whether Will and Sonny EVER get back together or not). Brian is a flim flam man, just like Nick when it comes to mean girling it all over Salem. There are other people Will can confide in. Chad, Abby, Marlena, EJ, Kate. He doesn't need to sit around Common Grounds on the verge of tears silently pining for Sonny. If they are broken up, they need to stay away from each other. Let Sonny date Brian if that is what he wants and let Will actually try to move on with his life. Will has enough self-loathing. He doesn't need to add anymore to the pile. It's sweet and kind that Sonny wants to be there for Will, but ultimately it's not good for either of them. They need to make a clean break and hopefully the Valentines Debacle will help Will see that. You can't have a relationship if you can't communicate with each other and Sonny and Will have clearly decided not to communicate about their relationship (Will because he believes Sonny doesn't want him and Sonny because he has resigned himself to moving on with Brian) Brian hardly knows Sonny (hence the need to "get to know" each other). I would just like to see Will actually trying to "get to know" someone new. The one thing Kate and Lucas were right about is Will has never been in love and he's never had a boyfriend before and most people get to have their first in high school and don't have to do all the figuring it out all at once at 19 with a baby on the way and an evil homophobe secretly plotting against them. I think it might actually be good for Will to hang out with some other gay guys and even go on some dates if for no other reason than he can stop feeling like he's Typhoid Mary. There is more to Will than one horrible series of events. People get to move on and start over all the time. Will shouldn't have to be stuck in the moment of misery and despair in perpetuity. At some point, you have to say "Life goes on" We now know it's been a month since they broke up. Time for Will to accept the fact and try to reclaim his life. He's till in college. He's a good guy, He's cute and he has a lot of love to give the right guy and I'm sure he'll learn from this experience (just like everyone does with their first love) Maybe T can set Will up with Audrey's brother
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HQ75
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Post by HQ75 on Feb 15, 2013 19:04:56 GMT -5
But trust doesn't just magically reappear. Right now they aren't even talking about their relationship so how are they supposed to ever get together again. I don't want some outside event to send them back to each other. Will and Sonny should only be together if they want to be together and if they want to be together, they should actually be trying to work stuff ought. Or they should not get back together and focus on their separate lives. I think I've said this before but I don't like grand gestures or triangles or jealousy storylines where folks get back together because of outside forces. I know that's not how soaps work but I still find it frustrating. I was only glad that Will didn't try to make a play for Sonny once he realized Sonny didn't actually send him a valentine. I hate when folks grovel and plead for others to love them because love isn't something you should have to beg for. My fear is that this will become a "Sonny has to rescue Will then they get back together because of that" type of storyline instead of Sonny and Will actually hashing out the trust issues and really having a conversation about it.
But I think it would be unfair to viewers and to Brian for Sonny to be trying to work things out with Will while also dating Brian so for me, he has to chose one or the other. Either he's going forward with Brian and leaving his relationship with Will for good or he wants to be with Will and he's going to work through the issues he has with Will to see if they can make a go of things.
I also thing there is only so much that Will should have to suffer (in terms of the storyline) before folks become desensitized to it.
So I would like to see Will actually try to think of his life without Sonny and let Sonny go. You're only young once and in 4 months he will be a dad and I'd hate it if he spent the next 4 months pining for someone who doesn't want him.
Whether it's Will's "fault" or not, people have to live their lives and Will should get to live his, not just exist in limbo. He's barely out of the closet, he should get to date and if Sonny doesn't want him I'm sure there are guys his age who would (even if he will be a father).
I just think if Sonny and Brian get to date and Nick and Gabi get to date, Will should not have to wander around salem listening to an ipod full of songs from his ex, staring at a sonogram crying softly to himself like some 1970s runaway made for tv movie.
You can't be just friends with someone who is in love with you. It's not fair to them. It's cruel.
I'm not saying Sonny has to forgive Will. But I think if he can't he should let him go. Not try to be his friend.
So is Will just supposed to pine for Sonny while Sonny dates Brian and decides whether or not he can have a relationship with Brian?
Will is just supposed to wait and hope (even though Sonny has never said anything that would make Will be hopeful) that someday maybe Sonny will forgive him and might want him back?
I think a break up is a break up. Maybe 5 years later you can be friends when you're not still in love with each other.
But it's torture to try to be just friends with someone you are in love with who has no intention of being in a relationship with you. Whatever the reasons. You'd have to be a masochist to put yourself in that situation.
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HQ75
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Post by HQ75 on Feb 15, 2013 15:58:25 GMT -5
Will has said he's sorry and he meant it. I don't know what else folks expect from Will. He can't force himself on Sonny and as far as Will can see, Sonny has made it clear he wants to be with Brian, not Will. I get that some of you would never, ever, ever, ever forgive Will for the rest of your life and beyond because he's so, so evil and awful. But that's not really who Sonny is. He's not a vengeful or spiteful person. If he was, T would be sporting broken knee caps at the hands of Victor's henchmen. So to me, it makes no sense that Sonny doesn't even want to TALK about what happened now that they have both calmed down more. The fact that Sonny just gave up so easily is disturbing to me. If I were him and I REALLY loved someone (even if they hurt me) I'd want to talk to them about it (not just the day after it happened, but later, when I was more calm and better able to listen). I find Sonny's behavior odd. FOR HIM. Life is too short to not be with someone you actually love who loves you back just because you got hurt. At the end of the day, how exactly has Sonny been harmed? In real terms? He didn't know something he wish he knew. It happens.
I also find it fascinating that folks think that just because someone gave birth to you, you owe them respect no matter WHAT they do to you.
Will's anger at Sami was CUMULATIVE. It was not JUST about EJ, it was about his entire life of having Sami act like she has no sense and drag her kids life into chaos and pain and spirals of lies because of it.
People who think Will's anger was just about EJ are not looking at the bigger picture. Sami screwed everything up in her own life but she was completely emotionally unavailable to her son when he was going through an incredibly difficult time made only more difficult but her idiocy.
Maybe a person had to have lived with a mother like Sami to appreciate how horrible it can be, but I think folks do Will a disservice but acting like a couple months of him being mad at Sami makes him some horrible person.
And as he has said about himself MANY times, he's worried that he may become just like her. Unable to have a real relationship, unable to trust people or communicate effectively, always spiraling out of control.
I'm over the Brian vs Will thing. Sonny should be with who he wants to be with and if the show hadn't tried to convince us that Sonny was truly, madly, deeping in love with Will, I wouldn't actually care about why he's behaving the way he is now.
It could be an acting choice or a direction decision but Sonny does not appear to be a man who is heartbroken at having lost the love he waited a year for. He seems mildly put out and uncomfortable when Will is brought up.
More importantly, he's already telling another boy he wants to date him (and not in a rueful or reboundy way, he's totally calm and happy to do so)
Regardless of whom Sonny was dating, he behavior and attitude about it would seem strange.
In fact, if he was just having sex and one night stands and shutting down The Spot every night, it would make more sense to me and maybe convey some kind of inner conflict.
This gentle courtship with Brian is just disconcerting.
And BTW, I feel the same way about Nicole's miraculous recovery from having lost another baby and Chad's trying to hop back on the Abby train so soon.
It took Abby longer to get over Austin and they were NEVER actually together.
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HQ75
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Post by HQ75 on Feb 14, 2013 19:26:10 GMT -5
I think for me that is why it doesn't really feel like a triangle. In order for this to be a triangle, Sonny would have to feel torn between Will and Brian and he just doesn't seem torn, he seems resigned. Will already thought Sonny have moved on with Brian and given up (for the second time, I might add), now he's going to have hopes again and find out AGAIN that Sonny had moved on with Brian? What is the point of that? Even if Sonny isn't in love with Brian, he's open to it happening which means he has given up on getting back together with Will. That's ok. It's not what I want, but I can live with it and adjust. But what is the point of continually having Will make a fool out of himself? Will doesn't deserve that. He's bending over backwards to make everyone else's life easier, letting Sonny go without fight, doing whatever Gabi wants, it's just sad.
You can't have a real triangle without struggle. There is no struggle going on with Will, Sonny and Brian.
Sonny's ready to move on to like (which is a big deal ) Brian is biding his time and willing to do or say anything to get Sonny (no t, no shade, I don't blame him)
But Will's just a hot mess that no one really cares about. Lucas yells at him every chance he gets, Gabi and Nick are plotting against him. Abby and Chad are all but indifferent and Sami as usually is completely self absorbed.
The entire Horton clan is so busy shining Nick up they barely have time to eat or sleep.
I gotta say, I did not expect it to go down like this. I at least though Will would have some support and guidance that wasn't coming from his shrewish parents.
Where did all his "hanging out at The Spot" gays go?
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HQ75
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Post by HQ75 on Feb 14, 2013 19:06:56 GMT -5
I just don't get the constant hate the Brian gets from this board. So, it's established that he is an uber-hot player who wants Sonny. So what? I think it is clear from today's show that, although he is straightforward in his sexual interest in Sonny, Sonny is not just another notch on his bed post. He made it clear that he has been interested in Sonny for months, and that he thinks Will just isn't what Sonny should settle for. If Sonny was just a sex target for Brian, I am quite confident Brian would have moved on to any number of able and willing new conquests and put Sonny behind him (no pun intended). Anyways, although we know if won't really happen here, aren't hot, steamy love triangles the bread and butter of soaps? Aren't they the reason that we watch soaps? Soaps ain't supposed to be "Downton Abbey". Sonny in the middle of a hot triangle with Will and Brian would be infinitely more interesting than this dreary Wabi baby drama. I have no interest in Will and Sonny becoming the Mitchell and Cam of the soaps world. Nobody hates Brian. Brian isn't enough of a character for folks to care about him that's all. If he becomes more established and more 3 dimensional, I'm sure folks will develop more nuanced opinions about him than "OMG! He's so hot!" and "OMG! He's such a player!" Right now, that's all we know bout him. So far all we know is Brian is a boy who likes Sonny. I don't see why folks have to care as much about Brian as they do about Will and Sonny? His purpose is to exist in their storyline to move it forward (one way or the other). Unless you know more bout Brian than what has been shown on the show, there isn't much there there. What happens on other shows beyond DOOL isn't really relevant. These are fictional characters, not representations of anything other than the individual character written by the writers for DOOL
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HQ75
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Post by HQ75 on Feb 14, 2013 18:56:13 GMT -5
Stuff with Sonny and Brian is progressing so much more quickly than I expected. I totally get why Sonny might want to move on but I just thought he'd be a little be miserable for a while, I mean daaaamn, that's kind cold. I'm not looking forward to Will crashing and burning again while Nick and Gabi plot against him. It's just hard to stomach. Will just seems so alone and lost and out of the loop. He has no idea the world of hurt he's about to enter, AGAIN. I wish Marlena had seen him with the box so he could have had a proper conversation with her about it and really thought things through before he went charging over to CG in his spruced up hopeful mode. Sigh... I also have to say the ease with which everyone seems to have just let the whole Will and Sonny thing go is surprising. With every other breakup there was weeks and weeks of friends and family saying "Are you sure? Don you love him/her? Is it really over?" Folks are basically treating Will and Sonny's break up like it's no big deal. The whole thing is just bizarre and makes my stomach hurt. Sonny spent more time trying to understand and work things out with T than he did with Will. Maybe it's a "new writers" thing. Not sure how much more of it I can take. It would have been better if they just had a clean break with no more contact and no more woobie Will wishing and hoping and hanging on to every shred of possibility that Sonny wants him back. At the very lest, if Brian and Sonny are going out, let Will have some friends in his life to support him. Chad and Abby don't really seem to care and Melanie is gone. Ugh. It just sucks. It's not even like Sonny is on the rebound, he doesn't even seem conflicted, he just seems resigned. After all that time and effort and patience he's just like "Oh well..." I just don't get it. It makes it seems like Sonny wasn't really all that much in love to begin with. That's fine but then DOOL shouldn't have played it up so big with Sonny pining for Will before he was ready. Two weeks ago he was ready to move in with Will and now he's just like "Hellooooo Brian." lol Maybe it's a guy thing in terms of writing and male writers think that's how guys should be. But even though Sonny is SAYING he's still in love with Will, he doesn't seem particularly torn up about not being with him anymore. I don't expect him to be crying and shouting at the moon or anything but he could at least seem conflicted instead of so matter-of-fact about everything. Even Chad seems more sad than Sonny about the breakup with Will.
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HQ75
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Post by HQ75 on Feb 13, 2013 17:30:41 GMT -5
Tweet everyone you know Post to your Facebook page. Help get the numbers up so they can do a Season 3 y'all
Old Dogs & New Tricks 2.3 "It's Noel Coward Time"
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HQ75
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Do I contradict myself? Very well then I contradict myself, (I am large, I contain multitudes.)
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Post by HQ75 on Feb 13, 2013 15:55:34 GMT -5
But on DOOL, the same "day" can last 5 days. So Valentine's day could start today and it could still be Valentine's day on Friday.
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HQ75
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Post by HQ75 on Feb 12, 2013 20:26:53 GMT -5
Needs more Danny
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HQ75
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Post by HQ75 on Feb 12, 2013 19:57:42 GMT -5
I'm not mad at Sonny for keeping the secret. But he SHOULD be trying to encourage Chad and Justin to come up with a plan so they don't have to keep it a secret. Sonny, CHad, Justin and EJ all know something horrible about what kind of person Gabi is, what she is capable of when she wants something and is desperate that could DIRECTLY EFFECT Will's life and the life of his baby.
How can folks not see that? One doesn't have to see Sonny as evil or bad or in any negative light at all in order to acknowledge the truth about what happened.
Things are not black and white people. Human beings are not robots. You don't just push a button and get an automatic response. Every single human being had the potential to respond differently to a give set of circumstances depending upon who they are, how they view the world, their personal experiences, culture, nationality, etc et al.
Sonny is his own person and how he handles this situation has diddly squat to do with how I or anyone else would handle it. The same is true for Will. They are each a product of their entire life experience as the characters have been written.
People keep saying that Sonny is so mature. But the truth is, he is 21, not 40. He has a tiny bit more life experience than Will but not that much. He acts rashly, he's bossy and he can be incredibly preachy and a tad sanctimonious. Most of the time it's charming but sometimes it grates on my nerves. It's all part of who he is and I LOVE the character, I just also see his faults.
Brian reminds me of The Music Man. He's handsome and he's a fast talker and he'll do or say whatever to get what he wants. He has actually NO reason to dislike Will other than Will had a hard time coming out (which is a pathetic reason to dislike someone). The real reason Brian dislikes Will is is because up until recently, Will as dating the man Brian wanted. Brian wanted Sonny and Will had him. It's pretty basic. Brian doesn't know Will or Sonny well enough to care about them with any depth. And we the viewers don't know Brian well enough to care about him with any depth. Brian is Satan with a Sunday hat. He's something shiny to distract Sonny from his broken heart.
I'm ok with Sonny letting Brian be his midnight bowl of ice cream. I'm not ok with acting like Brian has any redeeming qualities besides being pretty and sexually forthright/experienced. Brian is all surface because that is all we know about him. Why do folks have to make him more important than he is? He doesn't know Will beyond hanging out with him at a bar a few times.
And let's be clear, Brian went into the Brady pub for the sole reason of stepping to Will to say "If that's your boyfriend, he wasn't 2 hours ago". That's it. He wasn't protecting Sonny or defending anything. He was bragging. Why make it something it's not?
I do not agree that Sonny is lying now, but he did say, of his own volition, that "I could never see myself agreeing to keep a secret that I could not tell you". Sonny laid it on very thick with Will and was clear that he thought the idea of Will having a secret about Gabi that he couldn't tell Sonny was bad/wrong/not ok (however you want to word it)
That is literally what Sonny said.
No mature adult would think that is a promise anyone could keep. It is just idealistic and childish. Over the course of your life, you will have to hold people's confidence and yes, that means you don't get to tell anyone including your partner. That is real life. No one with any life experience would actually believe that is a promise he could keep.
This is why I'm glad Sonny had Justin in his life to point out that there are times to be righteously indignant and there are times when you have to allow for human frailty.
His talk about the different reasons why people lie was beautiful and honest and real and it's the kind of thing Sonny needs to here (whether he gets with Will or not).
Live is about nuances and shades of gray unless you are the Red Queen in Wonderland.
And I'm sorry, I know she is some folks favorite but Nicole is one of the most duplicitous, conniving, pathetic man crazy characters I have ever seen. She lies as easily as she blinks and it is only ever for her own selfish reasons. She and Sami are exactly alike (maybe that is why they hate each other so much). Nicole literally cannot function without a man. She is useless. She may be beautiful and have legs for days (and she is occasionally funny) but generally speaking I really hope Sonny stays far, far away from the likes of her.
Even Abby has the good sense to be remorseful about her cray cray lies and she's still messed up and ashamed about it. Nicole literally has no shame.
At this point I think Chad owes it to Will to DO SOMETHING. He is not going to go to jail. That meme doesn't hold weight. Dimeras have literally kidnapped, killed, stolen from and blackmailed people and are walking around free.
No one is going to put Chad in jail for punching the lights out of the guy who kidnapped his girlfriend (particularly since it happened only a couple weeks after Melanie was freed from being kidnapped AGAIN for the third time)
Chad and Justin and EJ and Sonny need to tell the truth and risk the consequences because if Gabi and Nick go rogue and decides to get Will "out of the way" (like she did Melanie) they will be sorry they took so long to act.
I don't know why Sonny would care that Will shot EJ when he was a kid. Not too long ago his own Uncle and their shared cousin was trying to shoot EJ and accidentally shot Chad.
Sonny was able to forgive Victor, surely he could forgive Will. EJ has and it was him on the other end of the bullets ;D
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