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Post by irinobabe on Apr 11, 2010 14:38:37 GMT -5
I wonder if we would all be as freaked out about a Rebecca/Christian pairing if a despondent and depressed Christian had gone to a bar, and made out with a guy or girl who happened to hit on him. Obviously, not to say THAT would be a great thing to do either. (Have you or anyone you know ever done that? No? Bueller? Bueller? Seriously, I know too many...) However, we know that Rebecca's been pining for him for ages, and he doesn't have the knowledge we have. For him, it was attention, and she just happened to be there. He was feeling betrayed, he felt he was not good enough for Olli, he wanted a bit of revenge. To me, she served the same purpose as a Brian Kinney trick whenever he was upset about Justin...substitution from dealing with his real issues. I really have not been given any indication in the show that Christian feels anything for Rebecca or thinks anything about her more than a friend. He seemed really into the kiss...yes of course he was into the kiss because the whole purpose was revenge and covering up his battered confidence and trust in Olli. Sometimes a kiss is just a kiss...I mean, if all kisses were meaningful or lead to relationships, there'd be a whole lot less single people in the world, or a lot of one night relationships The thing is, they have to deal with the issues within THEIR relationship that is not being dealt with effectively, and until that happens, they can duct tape their lips to each other from now till eternity but they still won't be happy. Until then, bring on more angsty drama!
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Post by silverkitsune33 on Apr 11, 2010 14:39:06 GMT -5
When Christian was boxing he told Olli that their relationship was more important to him than his career and that he was willing to give it up if Olli couldn't deal with it. That kind of gesture is what I keep on waiting for Olli to do. Hello Lyra85!: I've seen this point brought up before, and I always think it's a slightly unfair comparison to make. The gesture Christian offers is sweet, but the reality of it would have been disastrous. I agree that a similar gesture from Olli would have been a really good idea, however, Christian hasn't had a great attitude about Olli's party planning business and wanting to make No Limits into a go-to-place. There are reasons for this. It's not crazy for Christian to get angry with Olli when he ditches him for No Limits every, single time something comes up, but at the same time I get that Olli thinks he's in-between a rock and a hard place. Keeping a small business afloat that your often MIA business partner almost ran into the ground not too long ago is hard. Olli loves owning No Limits, and I have to wonder if he secretly fears that if he made a similar gesture to Christian, Christian would say "yes, give it up for me". Which may be ridiculous, but when you and your partner don't talk anymore...ridiculous conclusions can be drawn. And then we throw Rob into the mix. Rob is to Olli what Wolle was to Christian. Rob is Olli's in-guy to the world that will help his career and Olli feels like he needs him. This could be debatable, but I'm not so sure since along with dealing drugs and repeatedly hitting on Herr Sabel over there Rob seems to be good at throwing parties. So far the soap hasn't provided a 'Gregor solution' for Olli the way that it did with Christian. Someone who could be as good as Rob in this area while not screwing Olli over (umm...possibly literally?). Hello Thunderkat!: Oh my god I know! One of the big reasons I loved this couple so much in the beginning was because they weren't afraid to show affection. Even Christian the more traditionally 'macho' of the two had no qualms about giving his boyfriend a hug/kiss in the places they felt comfortable in.
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thunderkat
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By Scissorknot
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Post by thunderkat on Apr 11, 2010 14:45:40 GMT -5
I didn't think he rationalized it as a reaction to not having time w. Chrissie, that might have been better, I think he rationalized it specifically as a response to the attentions he was receiving from Rob. If Christian wasn't so consumed with his own guilt, his alarm bells should have been at Defcon 5006 after hearing that. It may be true that less time together is a factor that gets wrapped up in all that, but the main thing I heard was that Rob is paying him some attention that he likes...with his mouth and tongue...oh wait, no tongue that's just in my sordid imagination...
Now, i quail a bit at hearing Olli being called manipulative... my sweet St. olli wouldn't manipulate anyone...unless it's for their own good. and it's not called "manipulating" it's called helping. Olli has never been particularly self reflective, he doesn't really examine himself too closely(The example that comes to mind and that has always really really bothered me, is when Christian asks him, waaay in the beginning of the SL, "what about you? what are your dreams?" and Olli shrugs and lightly says he doesn't have any. WTF?!!! Who doesn't have dreams?!) I think it's because Olli is primarily Id driven, though always with positive intentions. He lives solely in the domain of now and hopefully this storyline is going to lead to an olli who is really going to meditate on the ramifications of his actions...with the help of christian lashing out (immaturely) bc of sed actions.
LOL @ Tihkon i thoughtt he same thing when i saw Justamannsman's post. Don't worry, I've alerted the Ollipologists and they're on their way, I'm just the vangaurd. ;D
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Post by ivaniv on Apr 11, 2010 15:41:30 GMT -5
That's true about Olli living in the now. One second before the first party he had no idea that it's his dream to be a party organiser. You can put date and time tags on Christian's dreams in advance ;D
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lyra85
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Posts: 259
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Post by lyra85 on Apr 11, 2010 16:09:27 GMT -5
Olli has always had a knack for seeing other peoples mistakes/problems and suggesting a remedy; he seems to be incapable of doing the same for himself - e.g. asking Rebecca how he could prove to Christian that Rob had no chance with him. Instead, when it comes to his own mistakes, he tends to manipulate (whether consciously or unconsciously) the circumstances so that he won't have to shoulder the blame for his own behavior - for instance, blaming Christian's jealousy on Christian's not believing that Rob has no chance with him instead of looking at his own behavior and wondering how that could make it difficult to believe that Rob had no chance (forget Christian for a moment - Rob doesn't believe that... Christ, even MIRIAM doesn't believe it); or for instance, saying that he and Christian need to "be more open with each other," instead of just apologizing for letting Rob get close enough to kiss him and then (far more egregious in my book) lying about it repeatedly. It's not only disingenuous, it demands that he accept the very same argument for Christian kissing Rebecca. And, somehow, I doubt he will. Oh thanks! I was starting to think was only me I hate it when people uses 'you're jealous' as if everything said after that didn't count anymore. Yes, he's jealous and yes, you are giving him reasons to be. I find specially annoying that Olli even thinks Christian is maybe jealous of his success, please! the first thing he did after buying NoLimits was firing him! I've seen Christian at all the parties, helping out everytime he was needed, trying to warn Olli with the drugs thing... Christian may have many flaws as everyone else but accusing him of not wanting Olli to be successful in my opinion is very mean. Hello Lyra85!: I've seen this point brought up before, and I always think it's a slightly unfair comparison to make. The gesture Christian offers is sweet, but the reality of it would have been disastrous. I agree that a similar gesture from Olli would have been a really good idea, however, Christian hasn't had a great attitude about Olli's party planning business and wanting to make No Limits into a go-to-place. There are reasons for this. It's not crazy for Christian to get angry with Olli when he ditches him for No Limits every, single time something comes up, but at the same time I get that Olli thinks he's in-between a rock and a hard place. Keeping a small business afloat that your often MIA business partner almost ran into the ground not too long ago is hard. Olli loves owning No Limits, and I have to wonder if he secretly fears that if he made a similar gesture to Christian, Christian would say "yes, give it up for me". Which may be ridiculous, but when you and your partner don't talk anymore...ridiculous conclusions can be drawn. I agree, I think that asking something like that from your partner is extremely selfish. I don't even want him to express it in words, what I'm longing for is some gesture, some hint that makes clear that, given the case, Olli would still choose Christian
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SF
Junior Member
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Post by SF on Apr 11, 2010 16:52:21 GMT -5
personally i don't think 'gestures' will cut it from either end at the moment. there needs to be actual 'changes' because it's been months of the same thing now. they've been putting up and shutting up for too long now without actually talking. it's made some fans questions whether or not it's better for them to just move on and i gotta admit i was hovering myself there for a while. if olli said to christian tomorrow, or 'expressed' to christian tomorrow that NLs was nothing compared to their relationship, it would feel like an empty offering - a plaster over a nasty, bloody gash. it was only effective as a gesture, when christian made it, because they were so fresh and relatively new - so it was probably a bit surprising to olli, who i think probably doubted himself in the relationship back in those days, doubted himself as being enough for christian. it was a huge, generous and loving thing to say - in context. but we are far beyond that point now, there is no sentence either of them to procure to heal everything that's happened these last few months, through no fault of either one of them in particular. there is no instant fix that they can explain away in one episode. well not realistically anyway (although looking at the writing, i'm not holding my breath). i can't even think of a longterm solution to their problems. but i don't think olli should have to give up NLs (or his business association with rob) for christian, and i don't think christian should be backed into a corner by olli over what he's just done with rebecca.
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lyra85
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Post by lyra85 on Apr 11, 2010 17:14:40 GMT -5
I mentioned the gesture because I think Christian, b/c of the way he is, needs something to hold on to, to not to give up (maybe I'm not enough for him anymore), more than Olli does.
Before their chat a few eps ago, when Olli told Chris about liking the attention Rob was giving him, I hadn't seen Olli particularly worried about their situation. I mean, the times they fought were because Christian had strated it, so to speak. Maybe because, as someone said before, Olli lives in the 'now' and is not that good as seeing repercusions in the near future.
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Post by andc39 on Apr 11, 2010 17:21:50 GMT -5
Hi everyone, I know it going to seem as if I just popped up ( which I guess I have) I must say, I have really enjoyed finding this forum and reading all the comments and posts here. There are so many different pov's and I find that so interesting..I have wanted to comment before, but ended up sitting on my hands. So, I thought I might as well jump in and get my feet wet.. In regards to Olli's comment about someone paying attention to him.I don't think he mean't affection wise because, he seems uncomfortable with Rob's advances..He hasn't mentioned to anyone that he feels Christian is being distant with his affection..I think he mean't that someone(in this case Rob)is showing interest in his dream,his goal, in NL..Christian, clearly isn't interested in Olli's plans for NL and it's because of his blind jealousy of Rob.Some will argue that his jealousy is warranted but, I haven't seen Olli do anything to cause Christian not to trust Olli..He has seen Rob hug and kiss Olli on the cheek several times But, not Olli intiating a hug or kiss Rob on the cheek. There was a comment by Olli a few eps back. I think just after their roll in the hay. He was talking about riding lessons with Christian and was talking in Horse language and he said, see I read youre books too...I liked that statement.It showed that Olli has an interest in Christian's goals (which, he always has shown). Christian's reply back to Olli's statement has me thrown though!! When has Olli neglected Christian..He spent an all nighter with Rob without calling but, Christian has just dissapeard off into the woods without calling or texting , leaving Olli concerned about his safety.. Someone, here made the comment of calling the Ollipologist,,If that means what I think it does, I may be one of them This is my first real post here, So please have mercy on me..Thanks in advance..
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Post by FTLNewsFeed on Apr 11, 2010 17:24:22 GMT -5
I can understand it when Olli has claimed in the past that Christian is jealous of his success. I don't think that Christian consciously realizes it but on some level he reveled in the attention that Olli was able to bestow upon him when he was just a waiter and could focus all his time and energy onto Christian. I think Christian on some level needs that kind of attention, all men do -- they want to look to the world like they're fierce and independent but they do what they do for the attention of others (and mainly women - it's the whole macho evolutionary mating thing).
But with the success of NoLimits, Olli wasn't able to keep his attention and energies focused totally on Christian, there had to be compromises and his ability to boost Christian's ego (so to speak) waned. So yes, I think Christian was jealous of Olli's success - it meant less time for him from Olli. I think that Christian has floundered because of it and at first had his sports to fall back on and then when that was taken away he floundered again until he found the horses and this new dream. It's just another dynamic that their relationship operates on and while it's not the entire dynamic it's does explain for me a lot of Christian's actions towards Olli and what's happened in NoLimits.
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I ♥ Blaine
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....new kid. You'll fit right in!
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Post by I ♥ Blaine on Apr 11, 2010 17:25:19 GMT -5
Are they on tomorrow? They have to be, right... since firday left us with that cliffhanger?
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Post by dalphine on Apr 11, 2010 17:40:01 GMT -5
I hope we find out why Christian always turn to women that would be nice to find out. I have my suspecion so if anyone else have any, I would love to know. Thanks
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Post by tihkon2 on Apr 11, 2010 17:57:32 GMT -5
hmm.. He's only actively kissed women twice since becoming a couple with Oliver. In the past two and half years Christian has been shown with his lips against 5 other people's lips. 1) Coco (they were a couple) 2) Oliver (they're a couple) 3) Judith (she kissed him during the boxing beard storyline) 4) Miriam ( he initiated this kiss) 5) Rebecca (he is certainly not pushing her away) Oliver as well, has had his lips against five people's lips since I've been watching, I think. 1) Coco ( he intitiated that kiss) 2) Timo (morning after -one night stand) 3) Christian (they're a couple) 4) Rebecca (she initated that kiss) 5) Rob (Rob intiated that kiss) Although I think we should move this discussion to the general thread. It's beyond the scope of this episode. (edited in Timo because of memory mavens Thunderkat and mercurymay ;D)
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Post by irinobabe on Apr 11, 2010 18:07:03 GMT -5
To me it's more of a show thing why he's always kissing women... (Olli too!) it's easier for plot and casting for one thing. He can't very well kiss a random straight guy on the show (Andi? yum David? whoo Tristan? ick) and for him to kiss another guy they'd have to bring in an extra as a one off thing, or intro a temporary character like Timo or start yet another gay character arc like Rob. (What are the chances of that happening? 4 gay characters on a soap? Is it possible? I can only hope for the future...) There's fewer choices. However, it is also Christian's first time with a guy, so he may just be falling back to old habits. To me, male/female is a non-issue. The fact is he is taking out his frustrations with Olli by kissing another person, which is destructive and counterproductive to any relationship, gay or straight.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2010 18:09:14 GMT -5
Tihkon: Now we know Christian has kissed more people Judith doesn't count though because she is awesome!
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Post by tihkon2 on Apr 11, 2010 18:14:03 GMT -5
<sets phasers to *bitchcslap*> ;D irinobabeIn my opinion your post is probably pretty accurate.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2010 18:16:02 GMT -5
To be fair Olli and Gregor initiated the whole Judith as beard thing so Judith doesn't count because Olli was in on the fake relationship so ;D
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thunderkat
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By Scissorknot
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Post by thunderkat on Apr 11, 2010 18:16:05 GMT -5
hmm.. He's only actively kissed women twice since becoming a couple with Oliver. Oliver has had his lips against four people's lips since I've been watching, I think. 1) Coco ( he intitiated that kiss) 2) Christian (they're a couple) 3) Rebecca (she initated that kiss) 4) Rob (Rob intiated that kiss) (have I missed anybody? Not counting Timo because we don't actually see them lip to lip) Although I think we should move this discussion to the general thread. It's beyond the scope of this episode. Part 17. very clear Olli/Timo lip lock. the boys are in a dead heat ;D IF you count judith... which i don't... so Olli...you bad naughty thing you... why don't you come over here and up your score ^ BAD Tkat take that to the general board...(self modulates)
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Post by MercuryMay on Apr 11, 2010 18:17:35 GMT -5
(have I missed anybody? Not counting Timo because we don't actually see them lip to lip) I´m afraid we saw him locking lips with Timo I present exhibit #1: 14/01/2008 Edit: My bad, should have known thunderkat would be faster ;D
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thunderkat
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By Scissorknot
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Post by thunderkat on Apr 11, 2010 18:18:57 GMT -5
LOL! Mercurymay...we're going to get phasered!!!
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Post by MercuryMay on Apr 11, 2010 18:20:30 GMT -5
LOL! Mercurymay...we're going to get phasered!!! ;D ;D Ups, we´ll handle it
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2010 18:20:54 GMT -5
OMG! Olli and Timo kissed?! Okay but Olli was single back then so whatevski! And after having rewatched the Coco/Olli kiss I'm like "Bad Olli kissing someone else's gf!" I always thought she initiated it, but it was HIM! Irinobabe: What you say certainly makes sense, now go tell Christian and Olli that
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Post by tihkon2 on Apr 11, 2010 18:21:39 GMT -5
thunderkat and mercurymay...I stand corrected! (although some would say Olli is actually kissing Timo's chin and that he actually moves his face down just before Timo's lips land on his ) Have adjusted my "Kiss Report" accordingly!
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Post by JustaMannsMan on Apr 11, 2010 18:24:10 GMT -5
I can understand it when Olli has claimed in the past that Christian is jealous of his success. I don't think that Christian consciously realizes it but on some level he reveled in the attention that Olli was able to bestow upon him when he was just a waiter and could focus all his time and energy onto Christian. I think Christian on some level needs that kind of attention, all men do -- they want to look to the world like they're fierce and independent but they do what they do for the attention of others (and mainly women - it's the whole macho evolutionary mating thing). I can see your point. It's not like Christian commiserated with Olli when the banks wouldn't give him a loan. It's not like Christian came up with the idea for Olli to approach Charlie for a loan. It's not like Christian went with Olli to approach Charlie about that loan. It's not like Christian worked right alongside Olli for months on the NL Extreme Makeover. It's not like Christian tore his brother a new one for causing Olli more stress when Gregor was waffling on picking up some tiles. It's not like Christian volunteered to stay behind and pickup those tiles himself. It's not like Christian swallowed his hurt and drew up a new menu for "the boss" after "the boss" dressed him down as mere staff. It's not like Christian fetched papayas for Olli when their date got delayed by the Food Critic. It's not like Christian worked all night with Olli for the first big NL party, despite not being an employee anymore because he was fired. It's not like Christian worked as staff for a bit at the first big NL party. It's not like Christian jumped out on the dance floor to try to liven up the limp beginning of the first NL party. It's not like Christian didn't object to Olli going out with Rob to check out the party competition before the dressage exam. It's not like Christian went against his common sense (all common sense) to ask Justus about letting his bf throw an Electro Party in the horse stables. It's not like Christian attended the NL AfterWork party. It's not like Christian tried to bounce a drug dealer in NL, thereby protecting Olli from the taint and criminality of drugs in the club. It's not like any of that at all. Why, if Christian had just done half of the above instead of being such a needy, competitive caveman, I suspect that no one would even conceive of charging him with 'not supporting Olli's dream' or 'being jealous of Olli's success', because the only reason I can think of for why a fella would do any of the above is to encourage and support his partner's success. EDIT: by request... not duress... ;D
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2010 18:28:24 GMT -5
JustAMannsMan: Wow, that is quite a list and I agree, Christian has been very supportive and Olli has been supportive of him too it's just that sometimes they get a little caught up with their own stuff. That is the way relationships go
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thunderkat
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By Scissorknot
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Post by thunderkat on Apr 11, 2010 18:35:49 GMT -5
^ Justamannsman. It is my honor and pleasure to bestow upon you the title Mann-basador, for your tireless efforts in defence of Christian Mann and his awesome dimples. You can pick up your boxing gloves and riding boots in the library ;D
I don't think FTL was saying that Chrissie doesn't support Olli...and I won't be saying that after the laundry list you've just provided, lol. But i think what he's getting at, and something that rings true to me is just the fact that the dynamic has changed greatly in their relationship, from Olli's side. Whereas before he was, well basically (don't hurt me) a doormat, now he's someone with responsibilities, goals a purpose etc. And there's a good chance Christian might very well be resentful of the lack of attention he's getting from Olli BECAUSE of the fact that he so selflessly supported him in the run up to building the NL. in one of the many many "we're in a fight" episodes Christian peevishly says to Olli "I get it you're going to YOUR bar." the implication being that Christian had an integral part in the realization of Olli's dream and is probably feeling like Olli is discounting, not only that fact, but also their relationship, the way it used to be, which was lots of tummy rubs and general fawning by Olli. Ok...so maybe there were no tummy rubs..on film...but in here (points to head) Chrissie gets nightly tummy rubs from Olli, he needs it to ease his indigestion cause he eats so much....aaaannnd I just freaked everyone out on the board. way to go T-Kat. way to go. EDIT: And at the moment, whether it's truly justified or not, Olli feels the same way, that he's not getting the support and tummy rubs he's accustomed to. Justamannsman, the list you've posted is comprehensive, but it's important to remember that although Christian was present and supporting Olli, his attitude was sometimes less than...enthusiastic, and that can really effect people and how they perceive things. Rob is always...very enthusiastic...mmmm... and so Olli feels like the quality support he's getting is from "Call me Rob," which is what i think he was trying to explain to chrissie on the couch <---Boo Yah! on topic baby!! phaser free is the way to be! ;D
EDIT: LOL Mercurymay, it took me 1200 posts to get as good as you are in 20 girl, props to you!
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