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Post by cantletyoudrown on Mar 22, 2010 22:28:19 GMT -5
It seems to me the parallel between the Christian/Olli/Rob story and the Andi/Helena/Tristan story is particularly strong now. Rob/Tristan is acting cool to pry Olli/Helena away from Christian/Andi. Christian and Andi are both losing points by losing their cool and their sincerity is easy to manipulate by Rob and Tristan, schemers with an overarching plan. Tristan and Rob both showed up in NoLimits and created a provocation with Andi/Christian. This parallel is not poverty of ideas in the writing of VL, it seems more like a deliberate intensifier. To the viewer, the situation with Andi unconsciously makes the one with Christian seem even blacker because it is as if the whole world is going to the bad in a horribly similar, predictable way.
This may sound pretentious but I really thought of what is sometimes commented on in the structure of King Lear - how the situation with Gloucester and his bad and good sons is made to intensify the story with Lear and his good and bad daughters. Now I know you don't need to be Shakespeare to borrow a four-hundred-year-old plot device - created by the real Shakespeare. I'm just saying that it is made to be effective here too, and accomplishes much the same thing in the way it works on our feelings.
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sozment
Junior Member
Forget regret or life is yours to miss
Posts: 648
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Post by sozment on Mar 22, 2010 22:34:10 GMT -5
I personally wouldn't call it character assasination at all. For me it would only be character assasination if Olli could do no wrong and was perfect. And in my opinion, he is not perfect and can do wrong. It is actually refreshing to me to see more of Olli's human moments as opposed to the times I've rolled my eyes at dialogue such as Christian saying about Olli..."He's too good for this world..." ;D I think the way Olli is being portrayed is quite consistant with the way he's always been shown as singleminded about things. In the past...it was getting with and staying with Christian. Now it's about making something more of himself than just a waiter. Is he being malicious? No. That would be character assasination in my opinion. This is just him being singleminded and oblivious to anything but bettering himself. Is Christian a saint. No. Is he more invested in their relationship at the moment? Yes. I think so. Am I mad about today's episode? Hell no. I found it pretty absorbing to watch. Took the words right out of my mouth. I could never turn against Olli. I think he is only trying to better himself and he LOVES Christian but right now, he is focused on something other than hanging out with the boyfriend. And he has that right. Olli definitely should have called Christian and told him where he was. That was rude and inconsiderate. But on the other hand, if Christian would stop being jealous for a moment, remember the person he fell in love with, remember he can TRUST him, then he could stop letting Rob get the best of him every single time. Although, Lugia, I can see your point to a certain degree. Sometimes it does seem they are trying to make Olli unlikeable to a a "poor Christian" aspect (which drives me up the damn wall) BUT I try to look at it in a different way and see it as storyline driven. That both characters are having their bad moments to eventually fall apart only to get back together.
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thunderkat
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By Scissorknot
Posts: 2,053
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Post by thunderkat on Mar 22, 2010 22:50:29 GMT -5
Heh, well yeah. But I meant to Olli. And personally, I was hoping for a variation of "There Will Be Blood." That's interesting, but I don't see it. If the fact that Jorg, and by extension Rob, having a connection to drugs is known to Olli, why tell Christian that Rob vouched for Jorg that there were no drugs? If Olli knows, why not just say "yeah, Christian, I know, I mean, it's a nightclub, big party, of course there's gonna be drugs. Now gimme some sugar." If Olli knows and just chooses not to act on it, why confront Rob when the street urchin came in with an envelope for Rob? I could see, possibly, Olli knowing about it and keeping it from Christian, but Christian wasn't around when he confronted Rob about the envelope. And after that he hollered at Christian because he embarrassed himself in front of Rob. So not only is Olli Christian's lobster...he's his milkshake too. ;D ;D
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scarpien
Junior Member
Olli & Christian Forever
Posts: 491
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Post by scarpien on Mar 22, 2010 23:11:53 GMT -5
It seems to me the parallel between the Christian/Olli/Rob story and the Andi/Helena/Tristan story is particularly strong now. Rob/Tristan is acting cool to pry Olli/Helena away from Christian/Andi. Christian and Andi are both losing points by losing their cool and their sincerity is easy to manipulate by Rob and Tristan, schemers with an overarching plan. Tristan and Rob both showed up in NoLimits and created a provocation with Andi/Christian. This parallel is not poverty of ideas in the writing of VL, it seems more like a deliberate intensifier. To the viewer, the situation with Andi unconsciously makes the one with Christian seem even blacker because it is as if the whole world is going to the bad in a horribly similar, predictable way. DING DING DING DING!! you got it. But where Andi is concerned I sometimes wonder if he's playing with a full deck. All he's doing each time he confronts Jessica in front of witnesses is handing over his death sentence on a silver platter. So not only is Olli Christian's lobster...he's his milkshake too. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D All da lobsters crawlin' round his yard!! Took the words right out of my mouth. I could never turn against Olli. I think he is only trying to better himself and he LOVES Christian but right now, he is focused on something other than hanging out with the boyfriend. And he has that right. Olli definitely should have called Christian and told him where he was. That was rude and inconsiderate. But on the other hand, if Christian would stop being jealous for a moment, remember the person he fell in love with, remember he can TRUST him, then he could stop letting Rob get the best of him every single time. Although, Lugia, I can see your point to a certain degree. Sometimes it does seem they are trying to make Olli unlikeable to a a "poor Christian" aspect (which drives me up the damn wall) BUT I try to look at it in a different way and see it as storyline driven. That both characters are having their bad moments to eventually fall apart only to get back together. I hear dat.
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bsgnut
Junior Member
Posts: 790
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Post by bsgnut on Mar 22, 2010 23:31:15 GMT -5
Wow, jealous Christian was so HOT! If it were me I would apologize profusely and drop-kick Rob right out of my bar.
I think Olli's behavior is a lot more problematic than Christian's. It's already been established that Rob likes Olli, and Olli is not establishing proper boundaries and getting pulled into compromising situations. To me Christian's reaction to Olli staying out all night with someone who has the hots for him is totally justified.
I'm pissed that Olli is so blind to Rob's manipulation. I just hope this storyline is meant to amp up the drama between them but not actually break them up. I don't think I could take it!
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mycatfox
Full Member
"One sees clearly only with the heart. What is essential is invisible to the eye"
Posts: 2,042
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Post by mycatfox on Mar 23, 2010 0:49:57 GMT -5
I have no doubt that the endgame is Chrolli and thus, I am not at all depressed or filled with forboding or anything like that. I'm not an angst lover, but I am thankful for a bit of drama after so long just seeing them as window dressing. ;D I always thought the same about Chrolli. It never occurred to me the writers would seriously break them up for good. They will have a variety of crisis (oh yeah!) that are gonna shake their ground to prove its solidity, but Chrolli is the endgame . Their current SL is about a cracked Chrolli being threatened on two fronts. It's not perfect (Rob's menace, for example, is waaay better written/developed/acted than Becca's, and infinitely more interesting) but at least it pulled away the guys from that painful, long lasting limbo that they've been in This episode was terrific, btw. Christian restlessly pressuring a guilty Olli, and apologizing/warning Rob after shoving him was priceless. And so were all Miriam's scenes. I wish I could ever say the same about Chribecca...
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Post by luckycharm on Mar 23, 2010 1:04:29 GMT -5
In the screencaps, what are the little kid's birthday pics about? The two featuring C/O? Whilst taking a nap in her flat, Nathalie has a dream in which, at NL, her and Matthias are celebrating her son's birthday...Christian and Olli coming in, all 'Happy Birthday' (said in English!), etc, and presenting them with a birthday cake. And in the dream, she is calling her and Matthias' son Ben. Danke! I personally wouldn't call it character assasination at all. For me it would only be character assasination if Olli could do no wrong and was perfect. And in my opinion, he is not perfect and can do wrong. It is actually refreshing to me to see more of Olli's human moments as opposed to the times I've rolled my eyes at dialogue such as Christian saying about Olli..."He's too good for this world..." ;D I think the way Olli is being portrayed is quite consistant with the way he's always been shown as singleminded about things. In the past...it was getting with and staying with Christian. Now it's about making something more of himself than just a waiter. Is he being malicious? No. That would be character assasination in my opinion. This is just him being singleminded and oblivious to anything but bettering himself. Is Christian a saint. No. Is he more invested in their relationship at the moment? Yes. I think so. Am I mad about today's episode? Hell no. I found it pretty absorbing to watch. I felt the same way as tihkon2 watching today's episode. The characters are finally getting layers to their personalities, their defense mechanisms are being tested, and they're showing raw emotions, motivated by those defense mechanisms, which doesn't always lead to "saintly behaviours". They're like us, HUMANS! Christian's defense for when things are going out of his control, when he's hurting, in doubt, and suspicious (rightly so), is to amp up his anger. Olli's defense to having to face that his "work life" and "personal life" are not as cleanly seperated as he's desperate to believe, and that it's quickly spinning out of his control, is to deflect his guilt over what happened with Rob, by evading the complete truth (rightly so, during the NL interaction, as he knows Christian's explosive anger), playing down Christian's worry (and, having moments of when his emotions slip out anyway), and then, the final act of refusing to face his guilt - transferring that guilt onto Christian, and thus, making Christian apologize to Rob. To convince himself, AND Christian, that Christian was in the wrong for shoving Rob as there's REALLY NOTHING GOING ON! (he's desperate to believe this....) Miriam was fabulous, and Rob, delivered his role to perfection. These characters are finally being fleshed out; our lovable Olli has weaknesses, dark sides, and, the audience gets to finally watch, will it lead to his downfall, or can he conquer? Same for Christian. And, Rob is the catalyst for evoking the dark sides in each of those characters. Isn't that what storytelling in soaps is all about? Not a light breeze in the park, but a whirlwind? I'm captivated with this storyline once again. Go VL! ;D
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Post by ivaniv on Mar 23, 2010 1:56:05 GMT -5
There's one saint in this, Saint Bob. After the fiasco with the tickets/drugs Olli thinks that Bob is just trying to help him and now he knows it's out of love. So in turn he keeps getting drunk with him and keeps flirting with him, because that's what you do to somebody who loves you, but who you do not want. What could go wrong there. OTOH there's Christian who according to Olli hates Bob so much that he's making up things about him to make Olli distrust him. He'd even ruin Olli's career to get rid of Bob. Somebody should shake Olli really hard to see that if he does not stop this madness he can lose Christian over this.
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Zam
Full Member
Posts: 1,805
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Post by Zam on Mar 23, 2010 3:00:53 GMT -5
What a great episode today! Have to give super huge kudos to the director for the way Nathalie's scenes at the hospital were filmed. That first minute waiting for the doctor, where her eyes were all in shadow. Her eyes looked completely black and lifeless. Excellent foreshadowing and amazingly evocotive! And well-played by Jenny Winkler! I'd give the same compliment to the scene at the castle with Seb & Lydia and the use of space between them...if the actors didn't look uncomfortable playing the first part of that scene. I'm still not completely sold on nuSeb, but I've been liking Lydia a lot lately. I really enjoyed the scenes with the boys. Awesome tension. Good writing. Top-notch good old fashioned soap opera drama on display today for Christian and Olli and Rob! Rob certainly has the smarmy lecherous user character down pat. He is pressing both boys' buttons expertly and playing them both like a... button accordion? Olli's distress and worry about Christian and really showing today how he's trying to walk a tight rope and losing his balance entirely too much. Olli's reaction after the shove today was a necessity of the story. It's good old fashioned soap opera drama when you scream at the TV (or computer in our cases), "Why are you doing that?? Why are you being so blind??" This is old-school. This is good. Jo is nailing his scenes, and more clearly showing the dangerous predicament he's in. Thore gets the kudos today. The writers really served him for a change. His chat upstairs with David was the emotional exposition we've been waiting for. The scenes downstairs, especially the second one in NL when he blocked Olli going back behind the bar was excellent. What Thore accomplished today was the ability to show us what fear and loathing look like in the same expresssion. I'll sit back now and enjoy the rest of my popcorn. This is going to be a fabulously bumpy ride!
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Post by tihkon2 on Mar 23, 2010 3:22:49 GMT -5
I'm glad Zam brought up the performances.
I had forgotten to mention that I think Jo is doing some of his best work lately. Today especially. And Thore was riveting.
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Post by brownsugar on Mar 23, 2010 22:33:20 GMT -5
I loved this episode. Total engrossing drama. ;D
I loved the scene in NL when Olli came out of the bathroom and Christian was leaned up against the post all menacing and waiting to pounce. Then he blocked Olli with his foot to really confront him. Christian and Olli can read each other a lot more than we think. They are on their way to the kind of couple that will finish each other's sentences. So Christian was reading Olli's guilt like a book. And he pressed him hard. Jo played the scene to perfection. I actually thought Olli was going to confess that Robert had kissed him, but thought otherwise when he saw the flames of fire coming out of Christian's ears, so those words just couldnl't leave his lips. And Thore...was he ever superb today, with one of his best performances in a very long time. That jealousy scene had me holding my breath in anticipation. I was just waiting for Christian to go all postal. And when Christian pushed Rob onto the couch like he was a rag doll, it really looked as though the actor Max may have gotten a nice bruise or two from Thore, but as we know, it's just very good acting. ;D
Oh Olli, you beautiful but foolish man...talk about blinded by ambition, or what now appears to be supidity. WHY did Olli make Christian apologize and feel so small? And Christian must really love Olli because he actually went ahead an apologized to this man he detests. All I wanted to do was give Olli a good kick up the backside. You just had to feel bad for Christian being forced into that apology.
Olli is playing so dangerously right now. I'm sure he's enjoying all the attention from Rob, but it's getting out of control. Olli has already tried to set boundaries, but Rob doesn't give a damn. He just keeps on coming. And for Olli, what may now be seem as flattering can easily take a darker turn when it comes to a drug dealer such as Rob.
This was one episode that really had me glued. Just loving it!!
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Post by silverkitsune33 on Mar 23, 2010 23:14:56 GMT -5
I adore Miriam! I think she's adorable, and very pretty! I liked how she acted as a physical embodiment of Olli's conscious. Every time Olli tries to push aside what happened as nothing you get Miriam's disapproving/pointed look.
I have to say that while Olli is making a ton of relationship!fail moves I do understand why he's lying to Christian. Christian's moral high ground is VERY easy to fall off of. For Christian "a kiss is never just a kiss,' and I think Olli's terrified that this could destroy his relationship and his character in Christian's eyes even if he didn't initiate anything, pushed Rob off and told him he'd had a boyfriend he was happy with. (Remember how crazed Christian got about Coco? ...granted it turned out he was right since Coco had fallen for Olli...but moving along). Also, Olli wants to believe he can keep Rob at bay while still benefiting from his club connections, and he knows Christian's temper pretty well at this point. (And the last thing Christian needs in police involvement in his life)
Someone (and oh man I can't remember who and I'm sorry because I thought it was a BRILLIANT connection) mentioned that Rob is to Olli what steroids were to Christian. They're both problems that we as the audience can see coming a mile away while the characters are sure they'll be able to keep a tempest trapped inside a teapot. Whether he does secretly want Rob in a licking ice cream off his chest way or not Olli has very clearly told him up to three times now "I'm in a relationship. Stop hitting on me. Stop invading my personal space." Hey Olli hanging around this guy is a BAD IDEA!
Olli's a pretty bad liar too. You could see the guilt radiating off him the entire time Christian grilled him. So fun to watch!
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Post by Difficult Diva on Mar 24, 2010 12:38:35 GMT -5
I LOVED yesterday's scenes between Olli, Christian and Robert. I'm a fan of complicated, messed-up and exciting triangles between characters and this storyline has it all.
I don't see this as "character destroying" at all for Christian OR Olli. I see it as both of them being completely IN character, in how they're reacting towards Robert. Christian will always be threatened by someone (regardless if they're male or female) being or showing an attraction towards Olli, because he's been that way in most of his relationships. He was like that with Coco and he was falling out of love with her and developing feelings towards Olli.
Olli. Olli. Olli. He says that Robert can't get to him, but I think that he does like the attention he's getting. It doesn't mean that he's pursuing a secret and forbidden relationship with the man. It doesn't mean that he's getting bored with Christian and their relationship. It just means that he's flattered by it. Olli's always been a big flirt.
Then there's Robert. I like how the writers have me trying to figure out if his "attraction" towards Olli is more than because he wants to take over No Limits. I think that he IS attracted towards him, but I also don't think that he wants a relationship. I also like how much joy he gets from being able to piss Christian off all the time.
Two Thumbs Up for this Ollian viewer and fan.
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Post by JustaMannsMan on Mar 24, 2010 13:32:45 GMT -5
Olli's always been a big flirt. But now Olli wants something from Rob. And Rob wants something from Olli in return. The question is, and has been, "How far are you willing to take that, [Olli]?"
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Post by Difficult Diva on Mar 24, 2010 14:37:41 GMT -5
Yes!! I'm excited about the possibilties of exactly where the writers will take the "Robert situation" for Olli and Christian. I know that some folks are not 100%, 50% or even .9999% interested in it, but it works for me.
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Post by ivaniv on Mar 24, 2010 14:43:06 GMT -5
Feiler isn't very popular here, but I really enjoyed last couple of episodes. I'd only wish there were more episodes with them, but even the other stories are getting better, IMO.
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thunderkat
Full Member
By Scissorknot
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Post by thunderkat on Mar 24, 2010 15:01:42 GMT -5
You think you might be reacting to the decided LACK of rebecca right now?
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Post by ivaniv on Mar 24, 2010 15:06:56 GMT -5
Perhaps, but I will wait till I will have seen any episodes with her before making an opinion.
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kes
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Without community, there is no liberation. Audre Lorde
Posts: 1,583
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Post by kes on Mar 24, 2010 15:29:20 GMT -5
Feiler isn't very popular here, but I really enjoyed last couple of episodes. I'd only wish there were more episodes with them, but even the other stories are getting better, IMO. My feelings are mixed on Fieler. She's capable (or her team is capable or the producer is capable -- we don't know what happens behinds the scenes at VL) of some horrible work -- such as that month of Rebecca-stains-her-shirt storyline. However, Fieler can also write quite well, and when she does, as she seems to have done lately, I think she is fabulous. It might be that she has been held back by her producers. Who knows? However, I am always seeing bright sparks that make me smile. I have liked the last few episodes, too, Ivan. Jo and Max are super together, but boy does Thore hit it out of the ballpark (i.e. do a great job). His anger and jealosy are palpable and may I say sexy in a strange way. This storyline seems to be bringing out the best in all the actors -- including Romina Becks (Miriam) who has been delightful in her understated critique of Olli. I love this.
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mycatfox
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"One sees clearly only with the heart. What is essential is invisible to the eye"
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Post by mycatfox on Mar 24, 2010 22:42:58 GMT -5
I have liked the last few episodes, too, Ivan. Jo and Max are super together, but boy does Thore hit it out of the ballpark (i.e. do a great job). His anger and jealosy are palpable and may I say sexy in a strange way. This storyline seems to be bringing out the best in all the actors -- including Romina Becks (Miriam) who has been delightful in her understated critique of Olli. I love this. I have to agree with you, kes, the last couple of episodes were really good, way better than the usual delivery. Jo and Max's chemistry is amazing (it helps that Max is a good actor too) and Thore's acting was terrific: Christian's anger and jealously were super believable. He hit the right notes. And so did Romina For me, they were not just a couple of good episodes: they reminded me a lot the good times of Verbotene Liebe
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