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Post by lugia on Mar 22, 2010 19:03:31 GMT -5
In case ya'll haven't noticed, Olli pissed me off today. Its almost like he doesnt even give a damn about his relationship with Christian while Christian is beating himself up over it. Exactly. Friday I was all, like, "Whee, Olli saved the show! Best episode in months! Rolli is so much fun!" Maybe not the intended reaction, but I loved their scenes. And today they "explained" how you were really supposed to watch it. They managed to completely turn me against Olli. I've never before wanted Olli to ditch Rob, but you were basically screaming that at him today! He completely FORGOT about Christian living upstairs. And Christian tried to talk himself into still trusting Olli, still holding on to his hope and what he used to know was true, but it didn't sound convincing. I don't call this drama. I call this character assassination worse than Gregor's or Christian's. Because those two just went to fairytale land with princesses and castles and horses. But it's like Olli is on drugs, his only purpose to disappoint Christian these days and drive him into Rebecca's arms. When the writers are through with him, we WANT Chribecca to happen and egoistical Olli to lose everything as his punishment. I also got the feeling that Nathalie was sacrificed for Lydia/Ansgar because they totally bonded over the baby/not having a baby. It's like they were in the focus much more than Nathalie herself.
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joanna
Senior Member
Former Verbotene Liebe Champion.
Posts: 8,547
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Post by joanna on Mar 22, 2010 19:15:50 GMT -5
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Post by tihkon2 on Mar 22, 2010 19:27:29 GMT -5
I personally wouldn't call it character assasination at all. For me it would only be character assasination if Olli could do no wrong and was perfect. And in my opinion, he is not perfect and can do wrong. It is actually refreshing to me to see more of Olli's human moments as opposed to the times I've rolled my eyes at dialogue such as Christian saying about Olli..."He's too good for this world..." ;D I think the way Olli is being portrayed is quite consistant with the way he's always been shown as singleminded about things. In the past...it was getting with and staying with Christian. Now it's about making something more of himself than just a waiter. Is he being malicious? No. That would be character assasination in my opinion. This is just him being singleminded and oblivious to anything but bettering himself. Is Christian a saint. No. Is he more invested in their relationship at the moment? Yes. I think so. Am I mad about today's episode? Hell no. I found it pretty absorbing to watch.
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Post by lugia on Mar 22, 2010 19:29:41 GMT -5
As that 'dream' wasn't in Nanna's vid (yep, I've just watched in...endlich!)...(You know what's coming, don't you, Lugia?! ;D)...could someone please let me know what was said in it (at least Christian and Olli's lines)? Obviously don't need the English-spoken 'Happy Birthday' translated, though! DANKE!x There wasn't really anything. Nathalie: Here you go, my darling. Matthias: Now what's in that present, huh? Nathalie: Oh, that ball is great, isn't it? Olli: Happy birthday! Christian: All the best! Matthias: Chocolate cake! Olli: Sure, what else? Nathalie: On your birthday you always get the cake you want, right? Matthias: And now Ben, you need to blow out all your candles! Go! All of them: Harder, even harder! Matthias: You did great! Nathalie: Ben.... BTW, I took it wrongly as "Ollian are still together in the future and replacing Gregor has Nathalie's best friend." But the future will be the opposite, so I agree that it symbolized their "death," especially because this scene occured directly after their fight where Christian says their relationship is at stake. I hate these kind of "leap" episodes where characters are taken too far. Rolli is just as bad as all the cheesy Chribecca scenes in that regard. Nothing much happens for a month and then two episodes out of the blue are "whoa." Both out of character and painful to watch. But ultimately, Olli is stuck with the baddie (guest star) and Christian the angel (lead role), so it's predictable where this will go, IMO. I just don't get why you need to take one character down to build up another. It's like "my couple is better than your couple" fandom fights and in incredibly bad taste.
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SF
Junior Member
Posts: 759
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Post by SF on Mar 22, 2010 19:37:17 GMT -5
When was this?? Was it a flashback?? Didn't see it in the video. they'd make such cute embarrassing-at-a-birthday-party dads.
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Post by chrolliforever7 on Mar 22, 2010 19:39:28 GMT -5
When was this?? Was it a flashback?? Didn't see it in the video. they'd make such cute dads. Oh, god, isn't THAT the truth, they'd be the cutest dads on the planet! I hope they get to be just that someday after all this ridiculous shit is done
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Post by lugia on Mar 22, 2010 19:43:57 GMT -5
Is he being malicious? No. That would be character assasination in my opinion. This is just him being singleminded and oblivious to anything but bettering himself. I'm probably guilty of reading between the lines too much and getting an incredibly bad, foreboding vibe. But just like JustaMannsMan asked, "How far is Olli willing to go?" After this episode, you must believe all the way. I think spitting in Christian's face that he knows nothing, ignoring Christian's worry about the drugs and basically sabotaging his job at the stables, viewed in a very black and white way, it's like not a lot separates him from Tristan these days. Then we see him with Andi where he is that "saint" again. They write him according to the purpose he needs to fulfill. That is not in character or complex or drama. That is fake as much as Rebecca being an angel and then suddenly being nasty to David or creepy tearing up photos. There's little continuity between their multiple story threads, so I don't believe anything anymore. And using Rob for his own purposes is a bit malicious. He keeps hanging out with him, even though he must know it's painful for Rob and getting his hopes up. I know you can interpret it differently because there are many "ambiguous" scenes, never knowing how sincere they are or what is going on in their heads, but the writing feels flat and abusive. I can't "trust the tale" anymore. Maybe it feels differently when you think Chrolli is the endgame and this is just drama based on different dreams and fights stemming from that. But I believe that Chribecca is the endgame and it ruins everything. Hopefully I'm wrong.
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Post by chrolliforever7 on Mar 22, 2010 19:48:14 GMT -5
But I believe that Chribecca is the endgame and it ruins everything. Hopefully I'm wrong. Believe me, we ALL hope you're wrong, Lugia.
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Post by tihkon2 on Mar 22, 2010 19:52:24 GMT -5
And that...I think, is the crux of the differences of thoughts I'm seeing. I have no doubt that the endgame is Chrolli and thus, I am not at all depressed or filled with forboding or anything like that. I'm not an angst lover, but I am thankful for a bit of drama after so long just seeing them as window dressing.
About Rob...I don't think Olli's being malcious to him at all. I think Rob is the only malicious person in this storyline, and spend not one second worrying about Rob's feelings.
;D
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Post by lugia on Mar 22, 2010 19:53:50 GMT -5
BTW, I wrote to DasErste this afternoon after the new spoilers had come out, but haven't received a reply yet. After this episode, I felt like writing in again. ;D
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Post by chrolliforever7 on Mar 22, 2010 19:59:43 GMT -5
tihkon2, YAY! A Chrolli-endgame-er!! hahaa i'm so glad you think chrolli is the endgame, it warms my heart ;D ;D and Lugia, i'm about to write DasErste right now too as a matter of fact.
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Post by lugia on Mar 22, 2010 20:05:21 GMT -5
I'm not an angst lover, but I am thankful for a bit of drama after so long just seeing them as window dressing. Heh, I just commented the other day that NOW they're window dressing. Christian is looking all preppy and sensitive with Rebecca, a true Ken doll. But I'm almost thankful to have Christian as the "hero" sometimes, fighting for their relationship on days like these. He might be useless with Rebecca, but that leg of the storyline is still emotionally captivating. I think he's often portrayed as TOO attached to Olli in order to make us root for him too obviously. And Jo giving his ridiculous lines a positive spin with facial expressions makes you side with him again and look at Christian as pushy. But if you take everything at face value, which I believe most viewers do, you can get a kick out of passionate Christian. And that is exactly what worries me. He is symbolizing the "positive" aspect of this storyline, which viewers grow attached to. It won't matter where he ends up, viewers will follow HIM on this journey like before. He is carrying the arc. Olli is only a player in his story and Rob in Olli's, so even less important in Christian's. It's all happening on the fringe of Christian's story. But maybe that's just my subjective perception.
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kristen
New Member
Thanks Joanna for the screen cap
Posts: 81
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Post by kristen on Mar 22, 2010 20:47:04 GMT -5
Whilst capping, I've just spotted something I didn't register much originally: just after David tells Christian Olli loves him, and immediately before he says he knows, Christian has this lil 'moment' where he smiles at the knowledge of Olli's love for him. He KNOWS, regardless of the rubbish that's currently going on, that Olli really does loves him. Back to the caps... ETA: And where, and not just in this episode, you have others 'reminding' Olli and Christian of their love for each other, saying they make a great couple, etc...I think that's not just serving the characters but deliberately meant as a reminder to the audience, too... Joanna: Thank you for your positive post (and caps) in this and the spoiler discussion thread today. After a frustratingly long day at work and watching more drama from today's ep which was also frustrating (ie: Olli asking Christian to apologize to Rob) it is great to read. I also do agree that there must be a reason for others to remind Christian and Olli of each others love and believe that Christian and Olli are endgame, even if I don't like how their SL is being played out. I am trusting this journey the writers are taken us on will be worth being a backseat driver with no control of where I am being driven. Luckycharm: I read your volumious/eloquent post from earlier today so I must be one of the crazay ones. You made some interesting points in favor of a C&O endgame.
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scarpien
Junior Member
Olli & Christian Forever
Posts: 491
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Post by scarpien on Mar 22, 2010 20:52:22 GMT -5
LOL. One thing I've come to know about Olli's character is that he doesn't do anything half-heartedly. Whatever he puts his mind to he dives right in head first. When he fancied Christian he went after him and only held off when he thought there was no chance Christian was into men. But after that night at the club when Christian let it "slip" via his jealousy that he had feelings for Olli, only then did he resume his drive to win Christian over. Funny how Christian's jealousy was oh so attractive then, huh? Oh trust me. Christian's jealousy is still attractive. I was hoping he'd kick Rob's ass the whole time. I'd prefer the jealous take charge Christian anyday over the whining, complaining, defeated Christian.For me the problem is that while Olli may think he's using Rob, and to some extent he is, not trusting Christian about the drugs means Olli really doesn't have the upper hand because he doesn't have all the information necessary to assess and manage the risk of Rob. Also, curiously, as lolaruns alluded to in another thread, Olli sure felt differently about this sort of risk when Christian was faking steroid use to get further with Wolle. (actually, I never understood Olli's aversion to that ploy; perhaps he was just jealous that he didn't think of it first ;D) If Olli had seen what Christian saw with respect to the drug deal then he would have a first hand account to properly assess the situation. However, the fact that Christian warned him about Rob means he still does have the information necessary to properly assess the danger that is Rob, but because he's currently blinded by ambition, this just means he chooses to not act on that information.
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scarpien
Junior Member
Olli & Christian Forever
Posts: 491
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Post by scarpien on Mar 22, 2010 21:00:42 GMT -5
Whilst capping, I've just spotted something I didn't register much originally: just after David tells Christian Olli loves him, and immediately before he says he knows, Christian has this lil 'moment' where he smiles at the knowledge of Olli's love for him. He KNOWS, regardless of the rubbish that's currently going on, that Olli really does loves him. Back to the caps... ETA: And where, and not just in this episode, you have others 'reminding' Olli and Christian of their love for each other, saying they make a great couple, etc...I think that's not just serving the characters but deliberately meant as a reminder to the audience, too... Joanna: Thank you for your positive post (and caps) in this and the spoiler discussion thread today. After a frustratingly long day at work and watching more drama from today's ep which was also frustrating (ie: Olli asking Christian to apologize to Rob) it is great to read. I also do agree that there must be a reason for others to remind Christian and Olli of each others love and believe that Christian and Olli are endgame, even if I don't like how their SL is being played out. I am trusting this journey the writers are taken us on will be worth being a backseat driver with no control of where I am being driven.Luckycharm: I read your volumious/eloquent post from earlier today so I must be one of the crazay ones. You made some interesting points in favor of a C&O endgame. I'm keeping the faith that Chrolli will prevail in the end as well. That little dream sequence of Nathalie's so caught me off guard since if anything I never expercted Chrolli to be a part of her unconscious. If anything Gregor and Luise should have been in it; even Charlie and/or Elizabeth I could understand but not Chrolli.
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Nitty
Full Member
I will eat your brains and gain your knowledge...
Posts: 2,085
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Post by Nitty on Mar 22, 2010 21:04:35 GMT -5
I have no doubt that the endgame is Chrolli and thus, I am not at all depressed or filled with forboding or anything like that. I'm not an angst lover, but I am thankful for a bit of drama after so long just seeing them as window dressing. We are so on the same page! ;D
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joanna
Senior Member
Former Verbotene Liebe Champion.
Posts: 8,547
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Post by joanna on Mar 22, 2010 21:14:37 GMT -5
Nathalie: Here you go, my darling. Matthias: Now what's in that present, huh? Nathalie: Oh, that ball is great, isn't it? Olli: Happy birthday! Christian: All the best! Matthias: Chocolate cake! Olli: Sure, what else? Nathalie: On your birthday you always get the cake you want, right? Matthias: And now Ben, you need to blow out all your candles! Go! All of them: Harder, even harder! Matthias: You did great! Nathalie: Ben.... DANKE!xxx Well, there are obviously various ways you could look at it...ONE is that it's 'natural' for Chrolli to be in the dream as it's taking place in NL and you get the added 'bonus' of the Chrolli 'fun' factor for extra light relief in the dream...ie Olli's 'HAPPY BIRTHDAY' and Christian's 'face' , etc! None of them have died...except Ben...the one whose birthday they're celebrating. And Nathalie and Matthias, for example, would no doubt still be a couple by that point in time. I'm not convinced it's meant to symbolize Chrolli's death. The dream is about Ben but can't just have Ben in it. It needed 'familiar' faces. I think NL is just the 'go-to' setting for parties and celebrations and Chrolli are just conveniently there for the light relief factor and as likely friends for having sorted out a cake for Ben. I don't think there's any 'foreshadowing symbolism' in there.
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Post by JustaMannsMan on Mar 22, 2010 21:20:20 GMT -5
Funny how Christian's jealousy was oh so attractive then, huh? Oh trust me. Christian's jealousy is still attractive. I was hoping he'd kick Rob's ass the whole time. I'd prefer the jealous take charge Christian anyday over the whining, complaining, defeated Christian.Heh, well yeah. But I meant to Olli. And personally, I was hoping for a variation of "There Will Be Blood." That's interesting, but I don't see it. If the fact that Jorg, and by extension Rob, having a connection to drugs is known to Olli, why tell Christian that Rob vouched for Jorg that there were no drugs? If Olli knows, why not just say "yeah, Christian, I know, I mean, it's a nightclub, big party, of course there's gonna be drugs. Now gimme some sugar." If Olli knows and just chooses not to act on it, why confront Rob when the street urchin came in with an envelope for Rob? I could see, possibly, Olli knowing about it and keeping it from Christian, but Christian wasn't around when he confronted Rob about the envelope. And after that he hollered at Christian because he embarrassed himself in front of Rob.
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mitsaso
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All the naysayers can bite us!
Posts: 1,267
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Post by mitsaso on Mar 22, 2010 21:26:19 GMT -5
This episode was hella hot. We got 7.40 minutes of Angry!Christian, how much hotter can THAT get?? Christian can pound me with "questions" like that ANYTIME he WANTS. ;D And the shove at the end... dee-licious!!! Even Olli's look at the very end betrayed something like "OMG my BF is so HAWT when he's mad but I can't admit it and pounce on him yet"... ;D Was it just me or was Miriam from "Voracious" standing in for the real Miriam today? ;D That bitch looked like she knew everything, and she looked ready to jump in and punch Rob all by herself. In context of the writing, though, they're totally showing Olli as "building castles in the sand"... let's just hope they won't get brought down too hard. And Christian, despite being uber hot, wasn't a paragon of good-boyfriend-ness today. He was too prissy and bitchy and he actually got violent, which doesn't paint him as the good guy in the equation, never minding that Rob actually had it coming (that LOOK at Christian while he kissed Olli's cheek? It was TOTAL "nyeah-nyeah-nyeah-nyeah-nyeah-you-cannot-get-me"!!!) There's an obvious plothole though... once we had Angry!Christian juxtaposed with Rob, Olli should have easily seen that Christian is a thousand times hotter than Rob can ever get, ditch the NL, take him upstairs and have his butt babies, therefore ending this trainwreck-ish storyline for good. That fact that he was IMPERVIOUS to Angry!Christian's hawtness... just renders this storyline moot. But could we expect ANY better by "call me Diablo Cody" Feiler???
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Post by JustaMannsMan on Mar 22, 2010 21:34:33 GMT -5
LOL. Thanks, I needed that. And Christian, despite being uber hot, wasn't a paragon of good-boyfriend-ness today. He was too prissy and bitchy and he actually got violent, which doesn't paint him as the good guy in the equation, never minding that Rob actually had it coming (that LOOK at Christian while he kissed Olli's cheek? It was TOTAL "nyeah-nyeah-nyeah-nyeah-nyeah-you-cannot-get-me"!!!) Don't know about that. Some guys don't have any respect so a good beat down is in order. Not saying how I know that though...
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mitsaso
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All the naysayers can bite us!
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Post by mitsaso on Mar 22, 2010 21:46:27 GMT -5
LOL. Thanks, I needed that. And Christian, despite being uber hot, wasn't a paragon of good-boyfriend-ness today. He was too prissy and bitchy and he actually got violent, which doesn't paint him as the good guy in the equation, never minding that Rob actually had it coming (that LOOK at Christian while he kissed Olli's cheek? It was TOTAL "nyeah-nyeah-nyeah-nyeah-nyeah-you-cannot-get-me"!!!) Don't know about that. Some guys don't have any respect so a good beat down is in order. Not saying how I know that though... Are you trying to say that you're a violent person? ........ ...Can I have your number? ;D
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scarpien
Junior Member
Olli & Christian Forever
Posts: 491
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Post by scarpien on Mar 22, 2010 21:54:35 GMT -5
Heh, well yeah. But I meant to Olli. And personally, I was hoping for a variation of "There Will Be Blood." That's interesting, but I don't see it. If the fact that Jorg, and by extension Rob, having a connection to drugs is known to Olli, why tell Christian that Rob vouched for Jorg that there were no drugs? If Olli knows, why not just say "yeah, Christian, I know, I mean, it's a nightclub, big party, of course there's gonna be drugs. Now gimme some sugar." If Olli knows and just chooses not to act on it, why confront Rob when the street urchin came in with an envelope for Rob? I could see, possibly, Olli knowing about it and keeping it from Christian, but Christian wasn't around when he confronted Rob about the envelope. And after that he hollered at Christian because he embarrassed himself in front of Rob. But get this: am I to conclude based on your remakrs that the only way Olli could obtain the information necessary to make an accurate assessment of Rob is if he had witnessed the drug deal while it took place like Christian had? If that's the case, then Olli had every right not to listen to Christian's opinions concerning Rob; afterall, he didn't see what Christian saw so the only info. he could base his assessment on at that time is what Christian told him. Olli wanted to believe Christian, and that is why he agreed to watch Rob for any funny business. At the moment, Christian has the upper hand over Olli where Rob is concerned but he's failing miserably using this knowledge to his advantage. However, as we can all guess, in time Olli will come to see and know Rob for the master manipulator that he truly is and hopefully ditch him once and for all; that is if Rob hasn't wreaked total havoc on their relationship and NoLimits by then. But in the meantime, until Olli sees the real Rob, he can only base his assessment on how Rob presents himself to him--and clearly Rob is milking the situation for all its worth smirking at Christian to piss him off while presenting himself as the victim to Olli--or what Christian tells him about Rob.
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Post by JustaMannsMan on Mar 22, 2010 22:06:25 GMT -5
But get this: am I to conclude based on your remakrs that the only way Olli could obtain the information necessary to make an accurate assessment of Rob is if he had witnessed the drug deal while it took place like Christian had? No, I was just pointing out that from everything we've seen Olli doesn't have the drug info.
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Post by JustaMannsMan on Mar 22, 2010 22:08:58 GMT -5
Naw. Unless you ask nicely.
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scarpien
Junior Member
Olli & Christian Forever
Posts: 491
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Post by scarpien on Mar 22, 2010 22:17:46 GMT -5
But get this: am I to conclude based on your remakrs that the only way Olli could obtain the information necessary to make an accurate assessment of Rob is if he had witnessed the drug deal while it took place like Christian had? No, I was just pointing out that from everything we've seen Olli doesn't have the drug info. You're right. He doesn't because Christian was the only one to witness the drug deal. Even Rebecca who was standing right next to Christian right before he confronted Jorg didn't see it, or maybe she pretended not to notice; who knows. So what is Olli to do if he didn't see it for himself? He has one of the following choices: a) believe Christian without reservation and accuse Rob b) take Christian's word into consideration and be on the lookout for confirmation c) ignore Christian's warnings altogether feel free to add any other choice(s) as you see fit. ;D
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