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Post by Hawthorne on Mar 28, 2010 13:13:39 GMT -5
I think that if ATWT wasn't canceled, then Ruke would displace Nuke and Noah would be written out. Reid is a much stronger and more interesting character than Noah. Since it is canceled, though, and story lines are being wrapped up, I think Nuke will be back in place at the end. Nuke has been a groundbreaking couple, after all. They have legions of fans, and why not give all of those fans some warm happiness at the end?
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Post by shamelessfan on Mar 28, 2010 13:43:23 GMT -5
I think that if ATWT wasn't canceled, then Ruke would displace Nuke and Noah would be written out. Reid is a much stronger and more interesting character than Noah. Since it is canceled, though, and story lines are being wrapped up, I think Nuke will be back in place at the end. Nuke has been a groundbreaking couple, after all. They have legions of fans, and why not give all of those fans some warm happiness at the end? Unfortunately, I agree. I think they will go for the immature first love story rather than the adult love story because fans may want that at the end of the show. It sucks creatively because of the characters development, but they may force a circle into a square.
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md1347
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Post by md1347 on Mar 28, 2010 13:48:45 GMT -5
I think we will see Ruke a couple for a month or 2 (hot and heavy) and there will definitely be a Noah-Luke-Reid triangle, with a more grown up Noah. A month or 2 of that and then your getting close to the end of the show. They take about 2 months ahead, so they are taping June stuff now.
I could be wrong but I think the end game is Nuke and not Ruke. They will be tying up all their couples before the end and I can't believe that they wouldn't get Nuke back together by the end (due to their popularity) but then again, they may not.
hehehe... maybe Noah will end up with Reid in the end... nobody knows.
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Post by shamelessfan on Mar 28, 2010 14:03:45 GMT -5
My problem with Nuke is that they would once again be forcing Noah's character development for the purpose of the relationship, not Noah being interesting on his own terms.
With LuRe where Reid is a character outside of his relationship with Luke, his story arc has its own movement to it. Personally, I just find two strong people becoming a couple in a story much more romantic than what they will probably end up doing.
I also think that others may be right that some of this is acting. The actor who plays Reid conveys a lot in the way he plays his character. Not sure if the problem with Noah is that he was always supposed to be restrained.
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Post by luckyduck152 on Mar 28, 2010 14:53:40 GMT -5
Nuke has been a groundbreaking couple, after all. They have legions of fans, and why not give all of those fans some warm happiness at the end? They were ground breaking, but for a very short period of time and they lost most of their popularity during the kiss ban and other nonsense. Though their fans are vocal, their fan base has significantly eroded since the story first started and the general ATWT audience dislikes Nuke, thinks they are boring. Much like Nuke, Nuke's fans exist in a bubble. (which often happens with fans of soap couples) But in this extent they are extremely isolated from the opinions of the general audience. I'd say just looking at the various ATWT forums, both Nuke and non-nuke related that there are currently more supporters for Luke and Reid than for Luke and Noah. Just look at the comments on Andy's videos, on After Elton and on the various ATWT discussion boards, they are all filled with people who are interested in Luke and Reid. The only place you find support for Luke and Noah are Nuke centric forums or fan sites for the actors. Beyond that there is juts no support. So if the writers are doing things solely on popularity, Nuke is losing at the moment. Maybe that could change, but I doubt it. People have already made up their mind about Noah and their dislike for him has nothing to do with Reid. So even if Reid leaves, there still isn't going to be much support for Luke & Noah to be endgame from the general audience.
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Post by shamelessfan on Mar 28, 2010 15:16:23 GMT -5
What other boards do you read Duck?
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Post by stregatta on Mar 28, 2010 16:48:36 GMT -5
My problem with Nuke is that they would once again be forcing Noah's character development for the purpose of the relationship, not Noah being interesting on his own terms. With LuRe where Reid is a character outside of his relationship with Luke, his story arc has its own movement to it. Personally, I just find two strong people becoming a couple in a story much more romantic than what they will probably end up doing. I also think that others may be right that some of this is acting. The actor who plays Reid conveys a lot in the way he plays his character. Not sure if the problem with Noah is that he was always supposed to be restrained. Unfortunately for the ultimate sake of this show, I think the same as you... Besides, also Luckyduck is right coming to this point about LuRe being so interesting (whichever is the reason), I was discussing with another fan from UK that was saying the same thing, actually YouTube is full of people really glad to follow this new trend... Of course we all hope SO MUCH in a finale that gives justice to the best written plots/ characters...The issue IMO is that, no matter what (I've seen it before with other couples of other shows...), regardless of the success, usually standard broadcasting tv is really stuck to the initial idea of "the dream-couple", & half of fans, usually, are more romantic than us, better saying "more typical cliché romantic", & want to see their heroes "Romeo & Juliet"-style together happily ever after...(Especially if it's a long-term-relationship!!) It's really difficult, especially if it's an American production to change this background concept. It has previously happened most of the times (I still remember Lorelai from "Gilmore Girls" series: even if there had always been a love subplot +marriage & daughter with her childhood friend/ lover Chris, with audience's approvement...In the very last ep. writers forced her together with supposed-real boyfriend Luke! ). Furthermore, I'm almost sure it will go wrong here, also because being gay for this tv means to be uber-romantic in a chidish way, so you're never supposed to leave your 1st true love, you know, like in fairy-tales...Where against all odds, the couple is together again in the end (or even die together?! )...& the funny thing is that, lots of times, actors or scripts are better matched with other partners they're not intended to be together forever & ever!! ;D That's the sad thing, because writers again will put these gay-characters into a fake bubble of happiness, instead of, like most of you said here, Luke & especially Reid could have been such an interesting characters to develop further...Anyways, I don't feel like singing the Requiem if they're not finished yet, I'm hoping for a miracle I know, but hope dies last!! PS_If really nothing works in the end for team-LuRe, we could always turn off tv before the inevitable last episode's tragic "happy-end"!! LOL
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Post by shamelessfan on Mar 28, 2010 17:19:52 GMT -5
Hey S. of course, in real life you've all the reasons...But in soaps they always tried to put the pairing Romeo+Juliet style to write their storyline "with cliché-potential": so characters as Reid are written for "hot sex commitment", for making the good (ex) partner finally aware of what he's lost, etc...Obviously, if this were an Almodòvar film, all would be different, but here I guess we're going to se something nice & entertaining, but not beyond that: even in this last break-up Nuke scene, Luke was still in love with Noah, so I don't see I mean "the potential sux-love story", but a sexy attraction, an attempt to move over the "selfish" problematic ex-lover... Oh, I know they will probably end with Nuke. I just think that's part of the reason American soaps are headed off the tube. They don't allow for more complicated relationships that really get into people's emotional id when watching shows. I mean- what do you really want to end up with? The perfect person in a perfect relationship or the the person who accepts you warts and all? The later is far more romantic and interesting to watch.
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Post by Zathras on Mar 28, 2010 18:31:56 GMT -5
I've never been a fan of US soaps, and don't really watch all that much. (Plus, I'm never home when they air anyway, so I'm dependent on what's posted online.) My personal preference is character-driven development. ATWT, for its part, seems largely written around plot-driven development. That is, they decide where they want to be at some point in the future, and then figure out some way to make it happen, regardless of how believable it is in terms of the characters (or just plain reality). They end up with bizarre things happening, just because it drives the plot toward whatever endpoint they've chosen. Combine that with mediocre character writing and an aggressive shooting schedule, and you get mediocre results.
Of course, whatever we each like is a matter of personal preference. For comparison's sake, the character-driven story of Lenny on GZSZ is far more interesting to me than ATWT, even though it's a far more painful story emotionally. Aaron's story on Emmerdale looks to be equally character-driven.
Bottom line for me: if the ATWT team can come up with an interesting, well-done, and satisfying way to have Luke and Reid together at the end, without doing disservice to any of them, I'm all for it. If they push Luke and Noah back together just because it's their predefined end point, and don't sell it very well, I'll be very disappointed (but not surprised).
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Post by shamelessfan on Mar 28, 2010 19:02:00 GMT -5
I've never been a fan of US soaps, and don't really watch all that much. (Plus, I'm never home when they air anyway, so I'm dependent on what's posted online.) My personal preference is character-driven development. ATWT, for its part, seems largely written around plot-driven development. That is, they decide where they want to be at some point in the future, and then figure out some way to make it happen, regardless of how believable it is in terms of the characters (or just plain reality). They end up with bizarre things happening, just because it drives the plot toward whatever endpoint they've chosen. Combine that with mediocre character writing and an aggressive shooting schedule, and you get mediocre results. Of course, whatever we each like is a matter of personal preference. For comparison's sake, the character-driven story of Lenny on GZSZ is far more interesting to me than ATWT, even though it's a far more painful story emotionally. Aaron's story on Emmerdale looks to be equally character-driven. Bottom line for me: if the ATWT team can come up with an interesting, well-done, and satisfying way to have Luke and Reid together at the end, without doing disservice to any of them, I'm all for it. If they push Luke and Noah back together just because it's their predefined end point, and don't sell it very well, I'll be very disappointed (but not surprised). Well, Reid is more character driven, which is probably why people have an interest in him. I agree that Euro TV is character driven. My personal taste as a writer has been in attempting to integrate character and plot driven story telling to have the best of both worlds. Great characters where something happens.
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Post by stregatta on Mar 28, 2010 19:54:22 GMT -5
Totally agree with you guys...Actually I don't see US-soaps (not at all Bold&Beautiful, that here's super famous! ;-P) either (with the exception of 1 couple years ago, because actor/plot were very good...), only series, apart from ATWT now, on the internet: EU-ones have less money & are less reassuring, but ultimately it's fun, if you like the genre! ;D I so wish for "the best of 2 worlds" too, but I'm preparing for the worst case-scenario... Besides, shamelessfan, I agree for sure with your concept of "real love means to know the real person, not the ideal dream-guy"...Unfortunately I know lots of couples' "shippers"-fans (if I remember well it's called that way!) instead, who look just how cool are the actors, & treat them like "Barbie & Ken" kind of deep-relationship... As to say, the boring lovey-dovey storyline with cute guys (like a sort of teenage-plot with the prom...Oh boy, how I hate that prom, always the same concept!! What a bore...) & the obvious happy-ending, OF COURSE!! & these people are fulfilled that way, I respect everyone, but since there is this kind of audience & tv-ommercials which need a certain safe base to air & make money, you know....Alas it's pretty tough to change this narrow-minded way of thinking!
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Post by anthonyl on Mar 29, 2010 4:09:54 GMT -5
I'm really not sure how popular Reid is and how many fans Luke and Reid have, but there are a lot more folks interested in this wonderful character and Reid and Luke as a couple than the Luke/Noah fans are comfortable with. Reid truly is a viable threat to this relationship and if the show hadn't been cancelled there is no doubt that Reid and Luke would be endgame and Noah would be written out.
But it's true that the only real support for this couple exists on the fan boards. The more casual or general viewer lost interest in Luke and Noah long ago, and Reid seems to generated interest in the Luke storyline that hasn't been there in ages. I never really thought of folks existing in a bubble. I liken it to preferring to hear an echo rather than a voice or an opinion that may differ from your own. I think that's unfortunate. Variety is the spice of life in pretty much everything.
The thing is the show realizes what a good story they have on their hand so I suspect they will milk this drama as long as they can with Luke being torn between Reid and Noah right up until the very end of the show. I personally think Luke and Noah's relationship has long since passed and I don't consider returning to that toxic, dysfunctional relationship to be a 'happy' ending for Luke.
Still, I think the show will reunite Luke and Noah because they feel they have to, even though it's not best for any of the characters involved, nor does it make an particularly interesting story.
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valso
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Post by valso on Mar 29, 2010 12:18:30 GMT -5
I don't remember if I ever posted in an ATWT thread but now I have to do it because I'm totally head over heels in love with Reid character. It's one of the most fresh, interesting, fascinating (and sexy!) character that I have ever met. I know that probably the show won't disappoint Nuke fans in the end but I can't help but enjoying Ruke/Lure interaction, Luke seems to sparkle in the scenes with Reid and it's a pleasure see them banter.
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cheerios
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If we could decide who we loved, it would be much simpler, but less magical.
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Post by cheerios on Mar 29, 2010 14:30:03 GMT -5
I don't know if anyone on this board has seen the story of Enric, Max, and Iago from El Cor De La Ciutat. But it reminds me so much of Noah, Luke, and Reid. Anyway long story short, considering I know mainly Max and Iago storyline. Max was out and had accepted who he was. Enric was in the closet for a while, but he liked Max and Max liked him. They started dating and after some time Enric came out and they were a couple. They moved in together and talked about how they would be together forever. I guess since Max had been his only guy since he came out that Enric was interested in other guys. (like I said I don't know their storyline well) Since Max loved Enric he agreed to an open relationship. They agreed they could be with another person as long as it was one time and they had to tell the other everything. And they couldn't see the other person again if feelings started to pop up. By this time Iago who was the son of a friend of Max's adoptive mother came into the picture. He was the classic bad boy, extremely attractive, charming, and a thief. Him and Max were always butting heads, but there were sparks there. One day Iago (who no one knew was gay) kissed Max after they had an argument (still one of my favorite scenes of them) Max was shocked. After that things started to changed between them which confused Max. Enric was happily having all sorts of hook ups and telling Max about them. But since Max only wanted Enric he hadn't partake on one. Enric insisted that Max sleep with someone outside of their relationship to make up for all the times he was with someone else. After a failed attempt with someone else, Max acted on the tension between him and Iago and went for it. Afterwards Iago wanted to be with Max, but Max who was starting to have feelings for Iago was determined to stay loyal to Enric. But he wasn't happy there and they eventually broke up over their own problems. Max started a relationship with Iago (which had it's own problems since Iago was a small time thief) but it the over all they had a much more adult serious relationship. They were each others great loves and they had a strong connection that no one could break. The point I'm trying to make is that Enric was Max great first love that they thought they would be together forever just like Noah and Luke. You couldn't fathom Max with another guy, but then Max was great with Iago. Just like I can see Reid and Luke being if given the chance. I'm not saying that Noah is exactly like Enric, but the more I see of Reid. The more I think that Noah and Luke just aren't on the same page anymore. I understand they were a important part to the show and it would be weird if the show ended without them together. But with the way Luke connect with Reid, I just see so much potential there. And the writers could write an acceptance of Reid and Luke being happy and maybe Noah meeting someone that could be someone great for him. I just really hope they don't get us all interested in the Luke and Reid relationship have something happen and then just have Noah and Luke get back together in the last two weeks.
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Post by jjose712 on Mar 29, 2010 14:45:09 GMT -5
Well, i watched el cor storyline, but to be honest it doesn't remind me ATWT at all. Iago and Reid could be named bad guys, but Reid only has bad temper, Iago was indeed a thief. And i liked Enric, and i think they destroyed his character
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cheerios
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If we could decide who we loved, it would be much simpler, but less magical.
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Post by cheerios on Mar 29, 2010 15:01:59 GMT -5
I think they destroyed his character too, I don't know if the actor left the show or was just written off.
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Post by luckyduck152 on Mar 29, 2010 20:45:10 GMT -5
I loved today's show. Luke and Reid are becoming closer and closer. That last scene before Reid was served was so cute and inside the elevator poor Reid was really suffering and Luke didn't realize to what extent at first, but he helped Reid and got a glimpse at this vulnerable Reid that he didn't even know existed. And when Reid was talking about the brain and mentioned that the brain allows you to love, you could just see Luke's adoring face. I knew Noah was going to be in this episode but I was still surprised by him for a couple of reasons. first reason he obviously is not missing Luke one bit. He told Luke without Luke even asking that he does't care if he dates someone else. I guess Noah is even more detached than I thought he was. Next, his "better late than never" comment didn't rub me very well either. I mean Luke formed the foundation for Noah so they could work on it together and he's been doing good with his money for a long time. So, no Noah, it's not about time Luke impresses you, it's about time you are impressed by Luke. Last but not least, I couldn't help but notice that Luke and Reid were so focused on each other, they really didn't care Noah was there. Noah excused himself and walked away and neither Luke nor Reid seemed to even notice or acknowledge it. They were totally caught up in each other and the smile from Reid just made me melt. ;D
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Post by Zathras on Mar 29, 2010 21:11:25 GMT -5
Today's clips, courtesy LukeVanFan.
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Post by Zathras on Mar 29, 2010 21:18:37 GMT -5
I knew Noah was going to be in this episode but I was still surprised by him for a couple of reasons. first reason he obviously is not missing Luke one bit. He told Luke without Luke even asking that he does't care if he dates someone else. I guess Noah is even more detached than I thought he was. Indeed. Meh. It was just a lame joke on Noah's part. - - - - - Luke & Reid are growing on me. They're taking off Reid's edge a bit, and that helps a lot. Or, at least, giving his personality some redeeming qualities. - - - - - Aside: Wait a minute. Wasn't Noah supposed to be in Dallas? He's been waiting for surgery for a while. And Reid has a perfectly good practice in Dallas. And it'll take years to design, build, and staff a new neurology wing in Oakdale. So why the hell would Noah's surgery take place there?! Ugh, these writers .
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Post by luckyduck152 on Mar 29, 2010 21:30:30 GMT -5
I agree Zathras. It's very stupid to make it seem like they will build this wing in a few weeks. It would take probably years of planning to build something like this. I guess Noah isn't going to be seeing for a while.
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mycatfox
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"One sees clearly only with the heart. What is essential is invisible to the eye"
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Post by mycatfox on Mar 29, 2010 23:59:09 GMT -5
I loved today's ep.; after watching it, I totally had the impression the writers are clearly steering this storyline toward Reid/Luke as a romantic pair. Around Reid, Luke is like a flirting machine, and he doesn't look at all like someone that've just lost his love of his life. And Noah looked so detached from Luke that actually, his brief scenes were painful to watch I have to agree with several comments: Luke & Reid are definitely growing on me, and I'm so looking forward to see them together. I know there is a limited time ahead, but I hope the writers do - for once- the right thing Edit: grammar
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cheerios
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If we could decide who we loved, it would be much simpler, but less magical.
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Post by cheerios on Mar 30, 2010 3:07:39 GMT -5
I loved today's show. Luke and Reid are becoming closer and closer. That last scene before Reid was served was so cute and inside the elevator poor Reid was really suffering and Luke didn't realize to what extent at first, but he helped Reid and got a glimpse at this vulnerable Reid that he didn't even know existed. And when Reid was talking about the brain and mentioned that the brain allows you to love, you could just see Luke's adoring face. I knew Noah was going to be in this episode but I was still surprised by him for a couple of reasons. first reason he obviously is not missing Luke one bit. He told Luke without Luke even asking that he does't care if he dates someone else. I guess Noah is even more detached than I thought he was. Next, his "better late than never" comment didn't rub me very well either. I mean Luke formed the foundation for Noah so they could work on it together and he's been doing good with his money for a long time. So, no Noah, it's not about time Luke impresses you, it's about time you are impressed by Luke. Last but not least, I couldn't help but notice that Luke and Reid were so focused on each other, they really didn't care Noah was there. Noah excused himself and walked away and neither Luke nor Reid seemed to even notice or acknowledge it. They were totally caught up in each other and the smile from Reid just made me melt. ;D I do think Noah misses Luke, he's just trying to protect himself and putting some distance between him and Luke to figure stuff out. They were together for a long time and it might not all have been good, but it's still a big part of their lives. I think they were very mature today and acted more like adults than how they usually do as children. It actually reminded me of how great they used to be and I saw that sparkle that was once there. Though I think they are becoming better friends instead of better lovers. Yeah it wasn't just sexual charged banter anymore this was actual outright flirting. They were connecting and seeing each others as more than just annoyances. And was it just me or was Luke turned on when Reid shoved him against the elevator wall? I'm know I've been midway for each couple, but I'm really leaning towards Luke being with Reid. Luke seems to make Reid happy, he couldn't stop smiling, especially when he was looking at Luke. And Reid challenges Luke and really makes him grow as a person. Your right I didn't even notice that, Noah just walked away and they were still just staring at each other with big goofy grins on their faces. I don't think either of them even said good bye to him. I wonder if being sued will bring them closer together or will Reid push Luke away?
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Post by stregatta on Mar 30, 2010 11:44:35 GMT -5
Oh gosh , I rationally know I must not grow too fond of bittersweet overwhelming LuRe ( "Quick and dirty, just the way I like it!" quoting Doc! I wouldn't be surprised if in a future ep Reid tells Luke "Before finishing my cigarette, you'll say YES to me, hun!"! LOL ;D) I'm not even torn anymore between "boring husband" Noah & "fiery lover" Oliver!)...This last ep was so good, that I'm already hooked!! Too bad for me I know, but I can't helped it... Anyways, who knows, if lots of fans care about them, never say never! (Perhaps a Lu-Re spin-off in Dallas?!LOL )After all these new writer & actor, have brought to ATWT new viewers, & even this forum is more lively, isn't it?!. -But then I come to my senses again, thinking that authors wouldn't treat Noah bad, 'cause you know, being also BLIND, it would be "morally wrong": thinking about what Luke himself said last week, it seems that Nuke's love-bond has been broken since the ACCIDENT, so I'm supposed to believe it's only "because of it"?! ...(Even if we all agree it wasn't clearly just for that! Besides, I didn't like the way Jake is acting his blindness: he always turns in other ways as regards as where his opposite speaker is, but generally people who have this problem or other actors I've seen, follow the voice, so they don't turn their heads, simply "look to the ground, or stare at something else", but basically the behaviour is not so "forced"...Instead IMO Van is great: just with a facial expression is so intense, like in the end, looking so miserable for Reid's issue ..In a glance!). BTW I'm starting to believe that the "heartbreaking news" Noah is going to discover, won't be seeing LuRe together (kissing or so.. ), but rather, hearing, by chance, a gossip about them... :oSo that this rumor will put him quickly right into the middle of the triangle; instead I'd have preferred to watch just LuRe alone for a period, in order to make them work! However I bet they're planning to make Noah coming back sooner or later on his own footsteps, basically making him say: "I'm so sorry Luke for the break-up, it wasn't me because I was mad for my condition; but now I'm cured, this awful time alone has made me wiser & aware of loving you even more than before, so at last I'm sure I'm ready to be with you now & forever (+will you marry me??" PS_Though I don't know if they actually can "marry" in Illinois' town-halls...Perhaps better running away to Las Vegas to seal the deal, LOL!)! Furthermore, this is the only case I remember in fiction, where the Dr falls for the partner of his patient, not the patient himself, isn't it?! (I've just noticed the opening credits, in which they're shown together...Of course! In our Italian soaps, we never have this, only the actors' faces or not even those, just for not knowing in advance what's going to happen to those characters, or which will be the endgame-couples; so writers are free to decide for a break-up or even a death in the end, the "classic happy-end" isn't guaranteed at all...& I've to say, as far as I know, audience have been satisfied with this trend. Last but not least, here due to the success of a guest-star character, very loved by the public also through internet, I've read that a soap has decided to call him back for next year, changing the script...At this point fingers crossed for actor Eric too!). -BTW in the meantime, Luke will have helped Reid with his love & support to be a better person, & after he'll have chosen Noah over him in the end, they'll stay friends & Doc will leave town...Sigh-sob! I hate this part, but I see it coming, regardless of how much entertaining will be LuRe, also because this is a soap, not a series, which is supposed to be different... However perhaps if it's true, like you were previously saying, that ATWT is a plot-driven 1, & that this could be a potential fabulous plot to root for...Well, finally it could mean something more, if the team is a modern & brave enough (& obviously if this soap can be saved somehow!): it'd be "the cherry on top of the cake"... Sorry for being so chatty & ok whatever, in any case, I'll enjoy this ride! ^_^
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Post by stregatta on Mar 30, 2010 11:59:23 GMT -5
PS_@Cherrios... Ah, glorious El Cor...I'm a fan too!! Only I didn't know (since I've seen just from the beginning of Max with Jago ) that ex-boyfriend of Max was that famous Eric-1st love... All in all, you know, that was an European product, you can't match them, because US-ones IMO are more cliched, anyways, of course there are many beautiful stories where the adult-relationship, or the previously just hate or just friends-liason, changes into something important, becoming "THE 1". Probably brooding Jago compared with nasty Reid could lead towards a similar pattern, but I'm afraid of time: 'cause El Cor developed it into I guess 2 years' time (with a temporay hiatus for Max in Africa) & then back on track for the finale...Here's different, however, I'll always stand for the better writing+actors, I never watch "just to watch" Ciao*
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cheerios
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If we could decide who we loved, it would be much simpler, but less magical.
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Post by cheerios on Mar 30, 2010 15:14:44 GMT -5
After everything that has happen with Reid and Luke. I will have a bad taste in my mouth if they writers have him go back with Noah. Luke really seems to be growing up and moving on which I'm really happy with. I think Reid is Luke's future and Noah should get his own great boy match.
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