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Post by dalphine on Jun 29, 2014 18:19:33 GMT -5
Thanks for the translation.
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Post by Difficult Diva on Jun 29, 2014 18:52:37 GMT -5
since I think the scene's on wednesday are most meaningful and beatiful so I made a translation, the rest is just a quick summary: So on episode of Monday Menno walks in on Lucas with another man. He is frustrated because he says to be very hard working on himself to save the marriage and asks if that is still possible. In the hotel he tries to phone his therapist but as he cant reach that he panics and breaks down the hotel room (impressive scene). When Laura is alarmed Menno concludes he has to leave Meerdijk and distance from Lucas. On Wednesdayin preview lucas goes to Menno saying that it didn’t mean anything with the other boy, he only wants Menno. Menno says he goes to Oberhausen on his own (job offer he got a few weeks earlier. They were thinking about going there together before Noud and Janine stepped in, because Lucas was only trying to keep Menno from being angry again) First scene: L: alone? but what about us, is this because of Casper? M: also, but not only L: you know me, sometimes something happens and then I don’t think and I do stupid things. But honey, we all act stupid sometimes M: I understand why you did this, and that’s why… L: Im sorry, 1000 times M: that’s sweet but not necessary L: yes it is. And apart from all, Im so proud of you, that you kept calm, when you saw me with him. If I saw you with someone I would have killed the guy. You are angry, I get that, but you kept calm, so Im proud of you. The therapy works and I will help you. M: Look around, most has been cleaned already. I’m not allowed to stay here, even if I wanted to L: But why Oberhausen, closer is also possible, I want to help you, really. You don’t have to go abroad M: This isn’t because of you. I won’t manage like this. I have to go L; I said I am sorry. M: and I said its not about that L: so how should this continue, how can we work on our relationship if you are in Germany? M: I don’t know, but this isn’t working either L: nothing happened with that boy, you saw it all, a bit flirting and kissing, that’s all M: I cant do this, I cant be here and see you. I have to work on myself, I have to focus and I cant do that while Im here L: so you choose for yourself? M: no also for you L: for me? Fuck off man. I love you. I try to help you. I had to take so much from you and now you run away. L: I didn’t mean it like that M:you did, and you can say everything, after what I did to you, you have that right L: I don’t want you to go M: I don’t go because I want to. I have to. You know why I fell in love with you. You are impulsive. You do everything you want to without shame or feeling sorry. You enjoy. I am always thinking, about everything, all the time. Only when I get angry, than I stop thinking and just hit everything L: I don’t care, you don’t do that on purpose M: I need control. But if Im here with you… I want to be with you. I want to laugh with you, about us together. We made a promise to each other when we got married. L: it is okay I will help you M: it isn’t okay. I want to fight for us, but Im all the time, all the time struggling myself. And Im afraid all the time for myself, for what I do to you, for what I will do to you. Every time if Im angry, or if Im afraid to lose you than… I see everything again, from the past. Pain, fear, feeling blame. It is too much. L: so what do you want now? M: I don’t know how long it will take for me to be done with my therapy L: that’s okay M: I don’t know if it will ever be done L: But honey, we are doing okay now, we are talking, we listen M: it seems that way but. It isn’t, it doesn’t feel right. You are my big love. Do you believe that? I really want to work on us, but L: so this means you want to go? M: I love you L: I know. And that’s why I know you have to go. Do what you have to do M: will you do that as well? Enjoy your life. You can do that L: never forget this Thursday Lucas asked Janine and Maxime to meet him in toko. Janine and Nina assume Lucas and Menno had a fight, but lucas explains he and Menno spent the night together as a goodbye. I liked to see how Lucas is supported by family and Noud, but after the explanation they are also understanding and respectful to menno. Menno has a present for Lucas to be opened after he leaves, but Lucas cant wait, it says: Always in my heart. Thanks for the translation. I'm still glad that the show had Menno be the one to realize that he had to be the one to leave, in order to stop his abusive behavior/reactions towards Lucas. He's right: He knew exactly how his husband reacts to things from the beginning of their relationship: Lucas' implusiveness, "immaturity" and need to be the center of everything. Lucas had no idea that Menno would react in stressful situations by being violent towards him. I get that it's not very interesting/exciting/appealing to see Menno and Lucas end their relationship in this way. Yet, I'm SO glad that the show did not have Lucas continuing to "stand by his man" and also continuing to take Menno's abuse. I would rather Lucas be alone than together with Menno, while he still has issues with violent behavior.
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Post by Zathras on Jun 29, 2014 22:58:07 GMT -5
Thank you so much, lies! I'm so far behind on the story, it's not even funny . But it's good to hear that the separation was done well, even though the whole thing was bittersweet. I am curious to see how Lucas recovers from this.
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lies
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Post by lies on Jul 1, 2014 1:07:01 GMT -5
Lucas had no idea that Menno would react in stressful situations by being violent towards him. I get that it's not very interesting/exciting/appealing to see Menno and Lucas end their relationship in this way. Yet, I'm SO glad that the show did not have Lucas continuing to "stand by his man" and also continuing to take Menno's abuse. I think Menno had no idea that he would react this way either. Menno has had violence in his past: his father was abusive, and he tells Lucas there were two incidents where he hit someone (in school and a collegue), but he never hit a boyfriend before. I think he still should have told Lucas about this before they got married, but I can understand him wanting to believe that it wouldn't be an issue.
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LadyArmand
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Post by LadyArmand on Jul 1, 2014 6:45:14 GMT -5
Lucas had no idea that Menno would react in stressful situations by being violent towards him. I get that it's not very interesting/exciting/appealing to see Menno and Lucas end their relationship in this way. Yet, I'm SO glad that the show did not have Lucas continuing to "stand by his man" and also continuing to take Menno's abuse. I think Menno had no idea that he would react this way either. Menno has had violence in his past: his father was abusive, and he tells Lucas there were two incidents where he hit someone (in school and a collegue), but he never hit a boyfriend before. I think he still should have told Lucas about this before they got married, but I can understand him wanting to believe that it wouldn't be an issue. First I want to thank you for the translations you have done so far. While I have watched the show on their website and could follow to some extent what was going on, your translation did fill in the gaps. I was wondering if you have a chance if you could translate those scenes in which Menno explains to Lucas the violence in his past. I believe these where the bedroom scene after Menno nearly hit Lcas but stops short. Thank you in advance for your time.
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lies
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Post by lies on Jul 1, 2014 18:23:17 GMT -5
I was wondering if you have a chance if you could translate those scenes in which Menno explains to Lucas the violence in his past. I believe these where the bedroom scene after Menno nearly hit Lcas but stops short. Thank you in advance for your time. So in this link you will find the most important clips of the story: www.rtl.nl/soaps/gtst/home/#verhaal/Menno kan het niet meer aan its the clip that's called "Menno kan de waarheid niet meer verzwijgen" (Menno cant hide the truth any longer) L: good morning, M what's that smell L: I wanted to bake an egg, M: no thanks I'll have a cracker L: I m such a bad cook, maybe I should boil them but than for how long L: what's it about? M: Are we people now that read each others mail without asking? L: As if I didn't know you're fired, because of me. That is my fault. And what does ignominious dismissal mean? M: that i won't get social benifits and can't work for police anymore. I lied to them, and they are not happy about that L: You said your glove was mine, wow what a shocking lie M: it was more than that Lucas L: Yes that was my fault, but what did you do? And what did I read about another incident? M: do you want a cracker too? L: Is this about Nina's bag when Mike was killed? Did you keep things from me than? M: Lucas, let it go L: Honey, you're fired and that is my fault, but I will personaly make sure it will be a honorary discharge M: Stay out of it, I don't want you to L: Inspector Green should know you wouldn't do this M: Lucas you'll stay here, and you'll have breakfast with me L: otherwise we'll sue them. you are punished too servere M: You stay here L: I only wanted... M: I know, and that is sweet of you L: I dont want this M; me neither. M: I dont want you to talk with Green okay L: you're afraid I'll make things worse M: No, I L: Is there something I can't know? about the other incident? Menno, you keep something from me. We cant continue like this, it is all complicated enough, and now you're keeping things from me. M: okay I didnt tell you because I thought it didn't matter. I wanted it to not matter. And when things went wrong, I didnt dare to tell anymore. M: My movement to Meerdijk wasn't a coincidence, something had happened. L: yes you met me M: off course but I mean the first time. At my former job, I had to leave, there was a collegue. He did things, lied, blamed me for things he did. It was an asshole. I hit him in the face, broken nose, lost a tooth. And in highschool I also hit a guy. If I get frustrated enough I loose control. L: so this has been an issue much longer. And you didn't think I should know? M: Not when we met, I thought.. L yes you thought M: I thought everybody might hit someone in highschool and that collegue simply was an asshole. Which doesnt mean that you... Can you please come and sit with me for a moment? L: Have you ever hit a boyfriend before? M No, never. That's why I thought i didnt need to tell you. Only Roel knows. L: Why? M: Our father couldnt keep his hands to him either L You're father? but he is so M: It happened when we were small. Stress at his work, two kids, my mother that wanted more help from him. I remember getting out of bed because I heard him screaming, I heard a smack. When I came downstairs I saw my mother on the floor crying, my father was on the other side of the room, he jelled I had to get back upstairs. And that 's why I dont understand. I hate it so much. L: did it happen more often? M: if my mother said something wrong L: did he hit you as well? M: sometimes a slap L: that means yes M: that's why I knew from 9 years old that I wanted to work for police. I hadnt been able to protect my mother. I wanted to protect other people. Stop people like my father. And now am I .. myself. L: all the time I thought it was me. That you hit me because I did something wrong, or said something wrong, or didnt support you enough M: that isn't it. it is not you. it is me L: How could you not have told me. After all that has happened M: I dont want to be like this. please help me. For my father it also stopped. so that is possible. I am not a violent person. I can control this, really. If you help me L how? M: I dont know, but together we can.. L: I dont know if I can help you. I dont know if I still want to know you
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Post by Difficult Diva on Jul 1, 2014 18:29:00 GMT -5
I was wondering if you have a chance if you could translate those scenes in which Menno explains to Lucas the violence in his past. I believe these where the bedroom scene after Menno nearly hit Lcas but stops short. Thank you in advance for your time. So in this link you will find the most important clips of the story: www.rtl.nl/soaps/gtst/home/#verhaal/Menno kan het niet meer aan its the clip that's called "Menno kan de waarheid niet meer verzwijgen" (Menno cant hide the truth any longer) L: good morning, M what's that smell L: I wanted to bake an egg, M: no thanks I'll have a cracker L: I m such a bad cook, maybe I should boil them but than for how long L: what's it about? M: Are we people now that read each others mail without asking? L: As if I didn't know you're fired, because of me. That is my fault. And what does ignominious dismissal mean? M: that i won't get social benifits and can't work for police anymore. I lied to them, and they are not happy about that L: You said your glove was mine, wow what a shocking lie M: it was more than that Lucas L: Yes that was my fault, but what did you do? And what did I read about another incident? M: do you want a cracker too? L: Is this about Nina's bag when Mike was killed? Did you keep things from me than? M: Lucas, let it go L: Honey, you're fired and that is my fault, but I will personaly make sure it will be a honorary discharge M: Stay out of it, I don't want you to L: Inspector Green should know you wouldn't do this M: Lucas you'll stay here, and you'll have breakfast with me L: otherwise we'll sue them. you are punished too servere M: You stay here L: I only wanted... M: I know, and that is sweet of you L: I dont want this M; me neither. M: I dont want you to talk with Green okay L: you're afraid I'll make things worse M: No, I L: Is there something I can't know? about the other incident? Menno, you keep something from me. We cant continue like this, it is all complicated enough, and now you're keeping things from me. M: okay I didnt tell you because I thought it didn't matter. I wanted it to not matter. And when things went wrong, I didnt dare to tell anymore. M: My movement to Meerdijk wasn't a coincidence, something had happened. L: yes you met me M: off course but I mean the first time. At my former job, I had to leave, there was a collegue. He did things, lied, blamed me for things he did. It was an asshole. I hit him in the face, broken nose, lost a tooth. And in highschool I also hit a guy. If I get frustrated enough I loose control. L: so this has been an issue much longer. And you didn't think I should know? M: Not when we met, I thought.. L yes you thought M: I thought everybody might hit someone in highschool and that collegue simply was an asshole. Which doesnt mean that you... Can you please come and sit with me for a moment? L: Have you ever hit a boyfriend before? M No, never. That's why I thought i didnt need to tell you. Only Roel knows. L: Why? M: Our father couldnt keep his hands to him either L You're father? but he is so M: It happened when we were small. Stress at his work, two kids, my mother that wanted more help from him. I remember getting out of bed because I heard him screaming, I heard a smack. When I came downstairs I saw my mother on the floor crying, my father was on the other side of the room, he jelled I had to get back upstairs. And that 's why I dont understand. I hate it so much. L: did it happen more often? M: if my mother said something wrong L: did he hit you as well? M: sometimes a slap L: that means yes M: that's why I knew from 9 years old that I wanted to work for police. I hadnt been able to protect my mother. I wanted to protect other people. Stop people like my father. And now am I .. myself. L: all the time I thought it was me. That you hit me because I did something wrong, or said something wrong, or didnt support you enough M: that isn't it. it is not you. it is me L: How could you not have told me. After all that has happened M: I dont want to be like this. please help me. For my father it also stopped. so that is possible. I am not a violent person. I can control this, really. If you help me L how? M: I dont know, but together we can.. L: I dont know if I can help you. I dont know if I still want to know you Lies - Thanks for the translation. I'm actually quite surprised that TPTB went there in having Menno and Lucas have that discussion about the past abuse in his family's lives that had such an effect on him AND had Lucas voicing that he didn't know if he could still or even want to be with him. I hope that whenever the soap comes back from their hiatus, that we get more info on (hopefully) Menno overcoming his issues with violence and trying to break that cycle of abuse. I also hope that Lucas understands and truly gets that what happened between him and Menno wasn't just his fault. They really stepped up and not failed their viewing audience in this storyline.
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LadyArmand
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Post by LadyArmand on Jul 1, 2014 20:36:55 GMT -5
lies[/b]thank you so much for the translation. It was great and I agree with Diva not many soaps make the time to have those types of conversation about what was going on with Lucas and Menno. Lucas expressing that he thought Menno's violence was his fault for not saying or doing the right thing or supporting Menno enough. Him saying at the end that he didn't know if he could or still wanted to help Menno is something that hardly ever happens on soaps. GTST seems to have done a very good job at showing how multi-layered an abuse story can be and not just vilanizing the abuser but showing him as someone himself in need of help and support. There is nothing that exuses what Menno did to Lucas but they explained it and showed that Menno had to take responsibility on himslef that Lucas' love coudn't fix him nor was it ever intended to. They didn't make the story into some sort of "epic" love story where the abuse was swept under the rug.
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Post by Difficult Diva on Jul 1, 2014 21:36:58 GMT -5
lies thank you so much for the translation. It was great and I agree with Diva not many soaps make the time to have those types of conversation about what was going on with Lucas and Menno. Lucas expressing that he thought Menno's violence was his fault for not saying or doing the right thing or supporting Menno enough. Him saying at the end that he didn't know if he could or still wanted to help Menno is something that hardly ever happens on soaps. GTST seems to have done a very good job at showing how multi-layered an abuse story can be and not just vilanizing the abuser but showing him as someone himself in need of help and support. There is nothing that excuses what Menno did to Lucas but they explained it and showed that Menno had to take responsibility on himself that Lucas' love coudn't fix him nor was it ever intended to. They didn't make the story into some sort of "epic" love story where the abuse was swept under the rug. Agreed. It wasn't this "epic failure", because in the end Menno and Lucas didn't get a quick fix, in order to make sure that as gay male characters, they got a happy ending after all that had been written before in their storyline. This ending makes sense to me. At least I'm not enraged by it.
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crayran
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Post by crayran on Jul 1, 2014 22:25:55 GMT -5
Are they still posting translations of Lucas story on their facebook page?
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Post by jjose712 on Jul 2, 2014 13:03:33 GMT -5
The problem of the whole storyline is that Menno and Lucas should never be married in first place. Lucas is very very far from being husband material, no matter he was the innocent part here (and the punching bag once again).
At least this seems resolved in a better way than similar storylines recently in other soaps
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LadyArmand
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Post by LadyArmand on Jul 2, 2014 13:48:45 GMT -5
What the hell is husband material and who gets to define that? Once again this to me is a backhanded way of making the abuse Lucas' fault. It's just shy of talking about how annoying or immature he had been. As if any of that means he can't be or shouldn't be married (btw he was actually a good husband his being "annoying and immature" an all ). First let's just remember that Menno knew exactly what he was getting into with Lucas, it was part of the appeal Lucas held for him in the beginning and eventually part of the reason he fell in love with him and married him. The issues that were brought into the marriage were Menno's and had nothing to do with Lucas being "husband material". These were issues he had since he was a child growing up and witnessed the abuse his father doled out his mother and occassionally him. None of that has one wit to do with Lucas being husband marterial (whatever the hell that is) or not. It had to do with Menno not dealing with those issues before he met Lucas, it had to do with him thinking Lucas' love for him and his love for Lucas would make those issues go away. It had to do with him not being honest with Lucas in the begining of the relationship so that Lucas could make a fully informed decesion as to whether or not he wanted to continue with Menno. It had to do with Menno living in denial about his anger issues. Not whether or not Lucas was, is ow ever will be husband material.
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Post by jjose712 on Jul 2, 2014 14:33:32 GMT -5
If you act like a small child (and Lucas acts inmature all the time) you are not ready to marry, and even less a man you barely know.
No matter if Menno wasn't a beater, their marriage is not going to work.
And no, i think i say clearly that the problems on their marriage weren't Lucas fault at all, what i said is that he was not ready to marry anyone.
The whole marriage storyline was a mistake, exactly the same mistake that a lot of soaps are doing. Lucas and Menno barely knew each other, they were opposites in so many senses, but the show wanted us to believe that the natural step was marrying each other, sorry but no, that's lazy writing.
I like Lucas, but he didn't grow up since he appeared on the show. He has a lot of good qualities, but act half of the time like an annoying spoiled brat
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LadyArmand
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Post by LadyArmand on Jul 2, 2014 15:17:47 GMT -5
I don't know what you have been watching but since the Lucas came on the show there has definitely been growth in him, especially since Edwin’s death. Yes he is spoiled and can act like a brat sometimes (name one character on that show who doesn't, the most stable being Noud but even his has had his moments), that in no way means he can't be or shouldn't be married. And using his so called immature behavior as a reason he isn't "husband material" is in a way blaming him for the abuse. Because it suggests that if Lucas had acted more mature it wouldn't have happened, which is a load of passive aggressive crap, because there are plenty of people who are "mature" who fall victim to abuse. Being a victim of abuse is not contingent on your maturity level or whether or not you are ready to be married or are husband/wife/partner material, it has to do with issues that go beyond such trivialities.
That marriage didn't fail because Lucas was immature, it didn't fail because Lucas acted like a brat, it didn't fail because Lucas wasn't ready, it failed because Menno had issues that Lucas didn't know about because Menno didn't want him to know about them. So unless people expected Lucas to have hired a private detective there is no way he could have known. No, they didn’t know each other long, before they got married, part of the rush was that I think Lucas had lost Edwin so suddenly that he realized that when you are sure about a person you have to act. Impulsive? Yes. But considering the loss he suffered understandable. Menno agreed to marry Lucas because one he loves and adores him but also because he thought that since he didn’t have any anger issues since he and Lucas got together that it was done, their love for each other had cured him. He was completely and totally wrong, but that doesn’t have anything to do with whether or not Lucas was, is or will ever be mature enough for some viewers. BTW, Lucas was a good husband to Menno, which means he was ready to be one, immature or not. The real issue is that the show doesn't seem ready to have Lucas in a stable long term relationship. Other than his friendship with Noud which was on clear display in this storyline.
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Post by Difficult Diva on Jul 2, 2014 17:30:20 GMT -5
If you act like a small child (and Lucas acts inmature all the time) you are not ready to marry, and even less a man you barely know. No matter if Menno wasn't a beater, their marriage is not going to work.
And no, i think i say clearly that the problems on their marriage weren't Lucas fault at all, what i said is that he was not ready to marry anyone.The whole marriage storyline was a mistake, exactly the same mistake that a lot of soaps are doing. Lucas and Menno barely knew each other, they were opposites in so many senses, but the show wanted us to believe that the natural step was marrying each other, sorry but no, that's lazy writing. I like Lucas, but he didn't grow up since he appeared on the show. He has a lot of good qualities, but act half of the time like an annoying spoiled brat But their marriage didn't fail, due to immaturity or the suddenness of them getting together too quickly. It failed due to the abuse from Menno AND him keeping his violent tendencies secret from his husband, Lucas. Who was honest and open about himself and his flirty, flighty and I guess from some "childlike ways". I still don't see how or why that makes him "not husband material". Menno's an older, mature and successful cop. That may make him appear to be "husband material". He's also prone to beating up his husband. I would rather be with someone who's so-called immature over being with someone that might beat my ass, because I said the right thing at the wrong time/moment/minute in that other person's violtile state of being. It's just a strange pov to me.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2014 17:39:23 GMT -5
It wasn't this "epic failure", because in the end Menno and Lucas didn't get a quick fix, in order to make sure that as gay male characters, they got a happy ending after all that had been written before in their storyline. This ending makes sense to me. At least I'm not enraged by it. Well, that's refreshing. Hopefully, Lucas will have a proper emotional healing and rebuilding process from this point forward too, considering the way such relationships can imperceptibly skew certain perspectives.
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Post by Difficult Diva on Jul 2, 2014 17:40:51 GMT -5
I don't know what you have been watching but since the Lucas came on the show there has definitely been growth in him, especially since Edwin’s death. Yes he is spoiled and can act like a brat sometimes (name one character on that show who doesn't, the most stable being Noud but even his has had his moments), that in no way means he can't be or shouldn't be married. And using his so called immature behavior as a reason he isn't "husband material" is in a way blaming him for the abuse. Because it suggests that if Lucas had acted more mature it wouldn't have happened, which is a load of passive aggressive crap, because there are plenty of people who are "mature" who fall victim to abuse. Being a victim of abuse is not contingent on your maturity level or whether or not you are ready to be married or are husband/wife/partner material, it has to do with issues that go beyond such trivialities. That marriage didn't fail because Lucas was immature, it didn't fail because Lucas acted like a brat, it didn't fail because Lucas wasn't ready, it failed because Menno had issues that Lucas didn't know about because Menno didn't want him to know about them. So unless people expected Lucas to have hired a private detective there is no way he could have known. No, they didn’t know each other long, before they got married, part of the rush was that I think Lucas had lost Edwin so suddenly that he realized that when you are sure about a person you have to act. Impulsive? Yes. But considering the loss he suffered understandable. Menno agreed to marry Lucas because one he loves and adores him but also because he thought that since he didn’t have any anger issues since he and Lucas got together that it was done, their love for each other had cured him. He was completely and totally wrong, but that doesn’t have anything to do with whether or not Lucas was, is or will ever be mature enough for some viewers. BTW, Lucas was a good husband to Menno, which means he was ready to be one, immature or not. The real issue is that the show doesn't seem ready to have Lucas in a stable long term relationship. Other than his friendship with Noud which was on clear display in this storyline. Agreed. The show continues to have Lucas experience these losses all the time and I get it's to give drama to the character and something challenging for the actor, but it makes me wonder why Lucas doesn't have some sort of emotional meltdown. He needs to take time to just be.
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LadyArmand
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Post by LadyArmand on Jul 2, 2014 17:53:52 GMT -5
I don't know what you have been watching but since the Lucas came on the show there has definitely been growth in him, especially since Edwin’s death. Yes he is spoiled and can act like a brat sometimes (name one character on that show who doesn't, the most stable being Noud but even his has had his moments), that in no way means he can't be or shouldn't be married. And using his so called immature behavior as a reason he isn't "husband material" is in a way blaming him for the abuse. Because it suggests that if Lucas had acted more mature it wouldn't have happened, which is a load of passive aggressive crap, because there are plenty of people who are "mature" who fall victim to abuse. Being a victim of abuse is not contingent on your maturity level or whether or not you are ready to be married or are husband/wife/partner material, it has to do with issues that go beyond such trivialities. That marriage didn't fail because Lucas was immature, it didn't fail because Lucas acted like a brat, it didn't fail because Lucas wasn't ready, it failed because Menno had issues that Lucas didn't know about because Menno didn't want him to know about them. So unless people expected Lucas to have hired a private detective there is no way he could have known. No, they didn’t know each other long, before they got married, part of the rush was that I think Lucas had lost Edwin so suddenly that he realized that when you are sure about a person you have to act. Impulsive? Yes. But considering the loss he suffered understandable. Menno agreed to marry Lucas because one he loves and adores him but also because he thought that since he didn’t have any anger issues since he and Lucas got together that it was done, their love for each other had cured him. He was completely and totally wrong, but that doesn’t have anything to do with whether or not Lucas was, is or will ever be mature enough for some viewers. BTW, Lucas was a good husband to Menno, which means he was ready to be one, immature or not. The real issue is that the show doesn't seem ready to have Lucas in a stable long term relationship. Other than his friendship with Noud which was on clear display in this storyline. Agreed. The show continues to have Lucas experience these losses all the time and I get it's to give drama to the character and something challenging for the actor, but it makes me wonder why Lucas doesn't have some sort of emotional meltdown. He needs to take time to just be. I think that allowing Lucas to go see his father in New Yorks the viewers are supposed to assume that he is getting some quality alone time where he can just be, without the constant reminders of everything that has happened to him in this past year. We have to see what happens when he gets back fron New York what will happen. Will he want to fight for his marriage, or will he cut his losses and move on. This to me depends greately on whether or not Dave is willing to come back if the show is will to make him a regular or if Dave is willing to come back to ties things up by ending things offically with Lucas. I hope that GTST has more respect for this pairing and the fans of this pairing than VL has for Chorlli and their fans by having the relationship they has spent years building up end off screen and then having Olli receive divorice papers of his husband.
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Post by Zathras on Jul 2, 2014 19:42:01 GMT -5
And using his so called immature behavior as a reason he isn't "husband material" is in a way blaming him for the abuse. Because it suggests that if Lucas had acted more mature it wouldn't have happened, which is a load of passive aggressive crap, because there are plenty of people who are "mature" who fall victim to abuse. Being a victim of abuse is not contingent on your maturity level or whether or not you are ready to be married or are husband/wife/partner material, it has to do with issues that go beyond such trivialities. Wow, sorry, but that in no way follows from what jjose actually said. He expressed his opinion that Lucas and Menno should never have married in the first place, which has nothing to do with the abuse that occurred later (let alone the cause(s) of said abuse). If I remember correctly, jjose has expressed that opinion in the past. Mind you, I disagree with the assertion; I do think Lucas is impetuous and impatient, and can be immature at times, but that doesn't mean that he can't be a good husband. That determination is ultimately up to the other person in the couple.
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Post by Zathras on Jul 2, 2014 19:59:20 GMT -5
I hope that GTST has more respect for this pairing and the fans of this pairing than VL has for Chorlli and their fans by having the relationship they has spent years building up end off screen and then having Olli receive divorice papers of his husband. I agree. Lucas has had some very painful experiences with love and relationships, I'd really like to see good closure for Lucas and Menno. Or for them to return and end up as a solid, stable couple. But if not with Menno, I'd like to see Lucas get timely closure and end up in a good relationship next time. I still think it was a mistake to kill Edwin. Some people suggested that Edwin's death would open up Lucas for better storylines, but I didn't see that happen (the immediate aftermath notwithstanding). Menno didn't come around until much later. So if Menno is leaving for good, I'd really hate to see Lucas stagnate again this time. And I definitely don't want to see the same extended relationship limbo as happened on VL. I guess we'll find out this fall.
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LadyArmand
Full Member
"Fortune favors the bold..." Virgil
Posts: 1,602
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Post by LadyArmand on Jul 2, 2014 20:56:05 GMT -5
And using his so called immature behavior as a reason he isn't "husband material" is in a way blaming him for the abuse. Because it suggests that if Lucas had acted more mature it wouldn't have happened, which is a load of passive aggressive crap, because there are plenty of people who are "mature" who fall victim to abuse. Being a victim of abuse is not contingent on your maturity level or whether or not you are ready to be married or are husband/wife/partner material, it has to do with issues that go beyond such trivialities. Wow, sorry, but that in no way follows from what jjose actually said. He expressed his opinion that Lucas and Menno should never have married in the first place, which has nothing to do with the abuse that occurred later (let alone the cause(s) of said abuse). If I remember correctly, jjose has expressed that opinion in the past. Mind you, I disagree with the assertion; I do think Lucas is impetuous and impatient, and can be immature at times, but that doesn't mean that he can't be a good husband. That determination is ultimately up to the other person in the couple. While I understand what you are saying on an intellectual level, my first visceral reaction is different. And that may be because I have known people both male and female who were victims of abuse. And it bothers me no end when people say in one breath that it wasn't their fault and yet say in the next breath something like, well they weren't husband material or they acted childish or were annoying or they never should have been married in the first place. For me the conversation begins and ends with it wasn’t their fault. There should never be any addendums or asides associated with that statement. To me it sounds as though these are in some ways backhanded justifications for the abuse by implying, well maybe on some level they deserved it or at least part of it. By saying that Lucas shouldn’t have married Menno because he didn’t know him implies that Lucas didn’t try or that Menno wasn’t deliberately keeping things from him. Lucas can do a lot of things but reading minds isn’t one of his many talents. Lucas is impulsive, he does act before he thinks at times and he is an open heart. He is easy to love which means he is easy to trust those he loves whether he should completely or not, just look at his relationship with Maxmim. These same qualities in him also make him vulnerable to getting hurt because he wants to believe the best about everyone he loves. Even after Lucas finds out that Menno kept things from him about his past violent behavior, and he says he doesn’t know if he can or wants to help Menno, he puts that aside and listens to his husband, even though Noud didn’t want him to. Lucas never wants to believe the worst about people, not even people like Bing and Lorena, who more often than not are up to no good and working on agendas that only have their interests in mind. Lucas is loyal to a fault. And had Menno not pulled back for the both of them, after coming to the realization that his anger runs deeper than he knows or even understands, Lucas would have gone back to him, because he saw that Menno was trying and for Lucas that means a lot. Lucas loves big and he loves hard. And after Edwin (and I agree with you Edwin should never have been killed off that relationship had such potential) Lucas never thought he’d love like that again, and while he had feelings for Bilal they were never on the same level.
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Post by Difficult Diva on Jul 2, 2014 21:33:54 GMT -5
I hope that GTST has more respect for this pairing and the fans of this pairing than VL has for Chorlli and their fans by having the relationship they has spent years building up end off screen and then having Olli receive divorice papers of his husband. I agree. Lucas has had some very painful experiences with love and relationships, I'd really like to see good closure for Lucas and Menno. Or for them to return and end up as a solid, stable couple. But if not with Menno, I'd like to see Lucas get timely closure and end up in a good relationship next time. I still think it was a mistake to kill Edwin. Some people suggested that Edwin's death would open up Lucas for better storylines, but I didn't see that happen (the immediate aftermath notwithstanding). Menno didn't come around until much later. So if Menno is leaving for good, I'd really hate to see Lucas stagnate again this time. And I definitely don't want to see the same extended relationship limbo as happened on VL. I guess we'll find out this fall. If the actor cannot come back full time, or TPTB chose to not have him come back, I hope that the show DOES allow the audience to see Lucas being able to firmly close the chapter in his marriage to Menno. I think Lucas (and the audience) needs to know that how the marriage turned out wasn't his fault do to his "lack of maturity". That Menno's regretful for what he kept hidden for him, how he treated him and how difficult it is to let him go in the end, because he does love him. Yet, he cannot be the man that he wants to be for Lucas. Not at this time and he doesn't expect him to wait for him to become that man. That's probably pure fantasy on my part, but I can deal with that fantasy over the soap fantasy that "standing by your man" will fix all of his problems.
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Post by Difficult Diva on Jul 2, 2014 21:42:23 GMT -5
It wasn't this "epic failure", because in the end Menno and Lucas didn't get a quick fix, in order to make sure that as gay male characters, they got a happy ending after all that had been written before in their storyline. This ending makes sense to me. At least I'm not enraged by it. Well, that's refreshing. Hopefully, Lucas will have a proper emotional healing and rebuilding process from this point forward too, considering the way such relationships can imperceptibly skew certain perspectives.Again agreed. Will Lucas be wary of the potential new guy that has become enamoured with him? Will he question that person's motivation? Will he think he's lying or holding information from his past from him? I think Lucas will be very leery about giving his heart to someone else again soon. Not to say that he'll become celibate or even very sexually friendly with folks in the community. I think this might be a very special time.
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Post by Difficult Diva on Jul 2, 2014 21:48:47 GMT -5
Are they still posting translations of Lucas story on their facebook page? Have you yourself gone to facebook to check it out?
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Post by anthonyl on Jul 10, 2014 20:09:43 GMT -5
Are they still posting translations of Lucas story on their facebook page? Have you yourself gone to facebook to check it out? Denise, you're my idol. :kisses:
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