sylstyle
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merci Flo
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Post by sylstyle on Feb 19, 2010 14:02:45 GMT -5
No actual bitterness, but I thought this might be a good place to ask this question, to avoid arguments about whether the show has been downhill for the last year+ I've been hearing lately that the show has been on an upswing of late. I'm not going to plow through all of the months of the show since I abandoned it, but I'm willing to pick it up at a later point where it started to get good again and go from there. So, since I assume there are people in this thread who would agree with me that the show was less than stellar for a while, where would you recommend picking it back up (if you would, of course)? I would say as of 19/01/2010 (on page 2) Have fun Sylvain
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andre
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Post by andre on Feb 19, 2010 14:17:26 GMT -5
So, since I assume there are people in this thread who would agree with me that the show was less than stellar for a while, where would you recommend picking it back up (if you would, of course)? I guess the current storyline began with episode 243 in Nanna's playlist (08.01.10). If writing has really got better or not is another question, at least you can say that boys have something to do again.
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maya
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Post by maya on Feb 19, 2010 14:31:21 GMT -5
No actual bitterness, but I thought this might be a good place to ask this question, to avoid arguments about whether the show has been downhill for the last year+ I've been hearing lately that the show has been on an upswing of late. I'm not going to plow through all of the months of the show since I abandoned it, but I'm willing to pick it up at a later point where it started to get good again and go from there. So, since I assume there are people in this thread who would agree with me that the show was less than stellar for a while, where would you recommend picking it back up (if you would, of course)? I've started following VL regularly again since late december (part 196 of Nanna's subtitled videos). The new storyline may not perfect but IMO the chemistry is still there and Jo and Thore are doing a really good job (I guess they're happy to have finally something to do ;D). If you don't mind seeing them fight a little you can give it a try
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thunderkat
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Post by thunderkat on Feb 19, 2010 14:41:34 GMT -5
I think the new Story line has it's real roots in late december, probably 17.12.09 of Nanna's subs? It's like the first layer of the ensuing problems, to me. though once you hit 17.12, 18.12, and 21.12, you can skip right to 08.01...
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sylstyle
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merci Flo
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Post by sylstyle on Feb 19, 2010 14:50:49 GMT -5
I think the new Story line has it's real roots in late december, probably 17.12.09 of Nanna's subs? It's like the first layer of the ensuing problems, to me. though once you hit 17.12, 18.12, and 21.12, you can skip right to 08.01... You want him to begin with Chribecca but he will die before watching the current SL ;D ;D ;D although we have very good scenes ;D Sylvain
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maya
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Post by maya on Feb 19, 2010 14:54:20 GMT -5
I think the new Story line has it's real roots in late december, probably 17.12.09 of Nanna's subs? It's like the first layer of the ensuing problems, to me. though once you hit 17.12, 18.12, and 21.12, you can skip right to 08.01... You want him to begin with Chribecca but he will die before watching the current SL ;D ;D ;D although we have very good scenes ;D Sylvain unfortunately chribecca is part of the current storyline so he better be prepared
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thunderkat
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Post by thunderkat on Feb 19, 2010 16:25:10 GMT -5
I think the new Story line has it's real roots in late december, probably 17.12.09 of Nanna's subs? It's like the first layer of the ensuing problems, to me. though once you hit 17.12, 18.12, and 21.12, you can skip right to 08.01... You want him to begin with Chribecca but he will die before watching the current SL ;D ;D ;D although we have very good scenes ;D Sylvain IMHO those are pretty important scenes, plus you have to accentuate the positive, yes you get a drooling slobbering rebecca (though who wouldn't drool over Xtian - evidently rob) but you also get a shirtless baywatch xtian, an ollian cheek bite, and "You have the nicest eyes I know" Plus you get rebecca cracking her head on a rock. All in all, i'd say the good outweighs the bad.
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Post by lugia on Feb 19, 2010 16:33:08 GMT -5
You want him to begin with Chribecca but he will die before watching the current SL ;D ;D ;D I would recommend Dec. 17, too, Ollian and the horse.
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Post by davedoty on Feb 19, 2010 18:57:59 GMT -5
Thanks to everyone for the feedback. This sounds like a solid plan: I think the new Story line has it's real roots in late december, probably 17.12.09 of Nanna's subs? It's like the first layer of the ensuing problems, to me. though once you hit 17.12, 18.12, and 21.12, you can skip right to 08.01... And I'll just try to keep in mind that Chribecca is a necessary evil on the path to the story that people actually seem to be enjoying.
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thunderkat
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Post by thunderkat on Feb 19, 2010 23:47:19 GMT -5
You definitely MUST tell us what you think!
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sylstyle
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Post by sylstyle on Feb 20, 2010 7:07:05 GMT -5
You want him to begin with Chribecca but he will die before watching the current SL ;D ;D ;D although we have very good scenes ;D Sylvain IMHO those are pretty important scenes, plus you have to accentuate the positive, yes you get a drooling slobbering rebecca (though who wouldn't drool over Xtian - evidently rob) but you also get a shirtless baywatch xtian, an ollian cheek bite, and "You have the nicest eyes I know" Plus you get rebecca cracking her head on a rock. All in all, i'd say the good outweighs the bad. That was just a joke I love these episodes ;D ;D Great summary Thunderkat ;D Sylvain
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Post by davedoty on Feb 20, 2010 10:53:24 GMT -5
You definitely MUST tell us what you think! Well, I've watched the first few so far. I actually didn't mind the Chribecca stuff as much as I thought I would. All she's done so far though is pine from afar, I'm sure I'll change my mind if she starts actively pursuing him later. I actually kind of liked Rebecca in her early appearances when Gregor was pursuing her hamfistedly, and I got out of the show before she (apparently) got super-annoying, so I've still got something of a soft spot for her, which may help. As for the current plot, all I've seen so far is the night of the big event, so I'm not sure where it's going, and I can't really comment yet. But Olli, as usual, has me sighing "Oh, OLLI!" in exhasperation. That's not a bad thing, though. I can quite enjoy characters who sabotage themselves.
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Post by 1921 on Mar 2, 2010 2:51:55 GMT -5
I was interested in VL until about when Christian developed his heart condition. Then I gradually lost interest and have been just reading the spoilers and so far I don't feel the need to watch the clips on YT.
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thunderkat
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Post by thunderkat on Mar 2, 2010 7:37:59 GMT -5
Interesting, that you lost interest during what I term "the summer of luuurrrvvee" though it was also the summer of no storyline, so it's understandable. if you skip around to the chrolli centric episodes during that summer and fall actually it's not bad. lol, what happened to them after Xian gets his heart condition can be summed up in like 4 or 5 eps, which is of course indicative of how little the writing staff cares. it's sad that you can skip huge chunks of episodes and the characters remain essentially static. basically this past summer/ fall: Xian got a new job and fell in luuurve with a horse .... hmmm...wonder if Thore would ever take the lead in Equus... His brother almost died Andi came back Rebecca almost got Xian thrown in jail Rebecca officially fell in luuuurrrve w. Xian
So the stuff that includes them in any major way, is usually happening to other freaking people, which is insulting and I imagine must have been annoying to get through. Though there were some absolutely swoon worthy moments, (hangar kiss! Andi kiss! PORD!! Rebecca's head + a Rock...FTW!!) probably best to just, boom, skip to now with all this yumm - tastic robert/drug/party stress
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SF
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Post by SF on Mar 5, 2010 13:07:49 GMT -5
i'm so upset. christian was such a beautiful, brave and totally awesome character when he fell in love with olli. sure he had immature moments, but there was a reason for when he was being a dick in those days. mostly he was thoughtful and caring and he always came to his senses. what they have done to him in the last six months is criminal. he's not the same man. even describing him as a 'man' sounds ridiculous because he's regressed to a childlike idiocy i cannot stand. there isn't even redemption for him, when he realises what a prat he's been he wakes up the next day and starts it all up again. i am trying to direct my rage at the writers rather than the character, but seriously, what's the point!?!?!?!?
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Post by chrolliforever7 on Mar 5, 2010 13:10:02 GMT -5
Yeah, i'm really disliking Christian lately. Right now especially...calling Olli a frog...what a bitch
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Post by lugia on Mar 5, 2010 14:35:07 GMT -5
Great post, soapfan! I've even been trying to direct my rage at the writers when it comes to Rebecca. But I sometimes wonder if Katrin got out while she could and how much the others know in advance. I don't think I could live with myself playing all these scenes that ruin Chrolli and all the long-standing characters. I get that actors are only tools and they need to pay the rent, but similar to Thore considering if he wanted to play gay, I would have considered if I wanted to play this travesty, knowing I would hurt a lot of fans in the process. I doubt they realized it because Jo was even excited about the new storyline! And actors don't get the whole picture as we do. They shoot the scenes out of order, they're unaware of the other characters and they trust that the production makes them look good. IMO they got fooled as much as we. But I think the writing for Christian has been on the same level as that for Rebecca for a while. They're both in deep trouble and become more unlikable every day.
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Post by mona on Mar 5, 2010 17:25:09 GMT -5
But I sometimes wonder if Katrin got out while she could and how much the others know in advance. I don't think I could live with myself playing all these scenes that ruin Chrolli and all the long-standing characters. I get that actors are only tools and they need to pay the rent, but similar to Thore considering if he wanted to play gay, I would have considered if I wanted to play this travesty, knowing I would hurt a lot of fans in the process. I doubt they realized it because Jo was even excited about the new storyline! And actors don't get the whole picture as we do. They shoot the scenes out of order, they're unaware of the other characters and they trust that the production makes them look good. IMO they got fooled as much as we. I think what would bother me is if they keep the hope up even tough they know what is happening (at least the frame). That's what I meant about the blog if they already shoot the lovestory of Chribecca. That's something that keeps up the hope that all is about Chrolli and if the storyline ends that cruel (and I guess the actors know that then) they shouldn't promote the couple too much outside the show. That's only playing with the fans then and making it worse (If it is like you fear) I don't know how they could ever think they could make that couple likeable (even written like that) with what they have/know about the characters in the first place.
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Post by tihkon2 on Mar 5, 2010 18:13:43 GMT -5
Moderator Post
Hi Folks,
This thread is chock full of spoilers. It shouldn't be.
Please either change the color of your posts that contain spoilers to either beige or yellow. Or, don't post them in this thread at all.
Please stop posting visible spoilers in this thread.
Thanks!
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Post by stregatta on Mar 8, 2010 17:37:27 GMT -5
Hi, I've tried to be patient, & I don't want to seem rude, but...What a disappointment have been these last eps & this last Thore's interview too (besides: it's only my impression, or is Thore more asked than Jo?!) If I were gay I would have been even sadder about it...I mean, I don't know, perhaps the tone of the chat, due to the translation, could have been slightly different, more "playful"the original, but it doesn't excuse the core of the speech...It sounded like a "betrayal" (all the usual stereotypes too...A sort of "Girls don't worry, he's so macho that he could play to be also the gay..But in the end you know that he'll come back to you!". That fan here, who told that when there are straight stories, nobody ask you if you'll turn eventually gay, it's totally true IMO! It sounded like an offence). Even worse if we think how much this couple has been blessed with succeess, popolarity & economic-outcome for the show & especially for these 2 actors...Have respect at least for this! Let me only say that this wasn't so predictable, because the plot to be critical isn't at all a new 1, I guess this "bang" Chrolli had have, is firstly linked to their undeniable on-screen chemestry (also due to their beauty, let's admit it...Sensual-glamorous indulgent scenes included...If ugly, I bet people,WITHOUT A PLOT, would have been tired of them in a flash), their good acting skills (but not excellent, especially later from Thore's side, in my humble opinion) & the ùber-romantic, almost unreal pairing, that writers wanted them to portray (probably, Germany-setting instead of the usual American 1, helped a little for it too ). To play the devil's advocate, writers have put no real drama in it, as instead for any of the previous gay-couples on tv: as to make the majority of people (new to this "genre/ vogue") dreaming upon them...In short, to make Chrolli an inspiring ICON. & it's perfectly fine this way, it helped to give away the idea of an accepted reassuring couple (even if this almost killed off all the action & the enthusiasm...But no matter what, probably for selling it to the largest audience possible, they even create the nice vlog... Pretty panders, but it worked & it paid off in the end, it's a fact). _So, now why the hell to want throwing away everything, for coming back to the start, with supposed-Chrolli bisexuals (I didn't even know it?!Apparently they've shown on-screen Olli gay & Chris discovered to be gay... So they cheated on us?? Too bad & silly! ), as other fans already said in this forum...just to play with people's sensitivity?!? It's not a matter of how many people of different sex you sleep with or the environment I guess, but simply a very personal tendency you're born with. Then I found it even more hypocrite than other shows do, keeping also a chaste gay-couple among traditional ones, to be able to say afterwards to be modern & open-minded. I don't side for neither Jo nor Thore, so please don't get upset with me: it's only that, once more, I had the impression that since Thore is & "looks like" straight indeed, is "cuddled" from medias & women alike, more than if he would have been different (look to what has happened to other great actors insted)... When T. has had the chance to speak up, he always said how "difficult" has been to kiss someone with stubble & stupid things like that...Probably he's tired , now he feels himself "boxed" wthin this role (& perhaps he's also more confident in fans' affection/ support regardless the rest, compared to before...). I mean, ok man, but please, are you or aren't you an actor? (Shouldn't you be able to act in whichever role? Or are you an "hero"just to have been undresseded & kissed a guy?! I don't think when the Dexter's actor is interviewed, someone had to ask him if he's a psycho in real life...Come on! (Let's read again what poor Heath Ledger told about this question...RIP ) Furthermore, why bother to join the NYC-event, if the production really thinks to them as BI ?! I'm a little lost... All in all, if VL or other shows want to embrace this kind of plot it's fine, if not, it's the same, we'll survive...But please, DON'T FOOL US! ! Besides, since Robert isn't a big deal (under-utilized) for the current plot, I don't even care anymore if they want to make Rebecca the new star of VL: because if this will be the new Chrolli-era...I simply don't feel the urge to watch anymore (I guess others too)...I'd come back to see just the final happy-end. Sorry, but the whole of it put me in a bad moon; I would have been more pleased to see a beautiful story, than having to discuss the faults with fans...Ciao PS_@Luigia, regarding the last eps & Becca, you quoted as a bad example ALIAS-season3: of course I respect your opinion, but I disagree...In the sense that I've found that sudden breathless shift from the end of s-2 to the beginning of s-3 as a real "coup de théàtre"! Besides that English actress had been good & mysterious enough to keep alive the tension & the suspense for the course of that year, you really didn't know what Mr J.J.Abrams had in store...Unfortunately for us, in VL it's an all different story!! ;D Bye*
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SF
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Post by SF on Mar 8, 2010 18:17:52 GMT -5
stregatta - on a deep, emotional, visceral level, i get what you're saying a bit. why use that word, 'gay' - which some people have fought long and hard to possess and occupy, proudly and with conviction, courage and stoicism - if you're just gonna shrug it off two years down the line, with a "hey, SURPRISE, i was bi all along!! fooled ya!!" (if that is where the writers are going with all this chribecca crap). i mean i get why they did it, on a marketing level - "germany's premier gay soap couple!" sounds at once more bold and less tawdry than "germany's sometime gay, sometime straight, largely bi soap couple!" - but it still feels a little bit disrespectful. in some ways. i mean, i guess soap characters who are gonna be involved in same sex relationships have to be flexible. purely because gay characters are rare, there is a dearth of opportunity and the only solution to that would be having the majority of soap opera casts swing both ways or a rapid flow of characters through a show, both of which are ridiculous suggestions for soap operas. but soap's straight characters do not have the same requirements to be flexible and in the most basic way their relationships feel truer and more secure because of it. i'm sure there's people who disagree with me. and i'm not saying that bisexuality in a soap character is a negative thing at all. i just think it should be a privilege and a responsibility to act any story, gay or straight or other. i just wish they'd pick a story they want to represent and stick with it. instead of borrowing the terminology and struggles and eventual glory of a successful 'GAY' story line and just throw it to the wind when things go tits up ratings wise. instead of exploring other avenues. this is all speculative based on interviews and general feeling. and really it's not something i'm gonna be weeping into my pillow over, i just felt you made some salient points stregatta and i too feel like it's a shame that they can't get it right for chrolli.
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Post by stregatta on Mar 8, 2010 19:18:36 GMT -5
SF...K-U-D-O-S TO ALL YOU'VE WRITTEN!! Picture perfect... It's not exactly that we want to go down on streets with a flag, because these kind of stories are a matter of life or death, Heaven's forbid, I know it! (Or that I want to be "the suffragette" of the situation... )...But simply that, especially 'cause they mean so much for many people it's a real pity to waste an ocasion of displaying a good vibe to even more fans, etc... For whichever reason they've become notorious, right or wrong at this stage it doesn't really matter, anyways these persons have "faith" in these very characters/ actors: this is the most important thing, an"inspiration", isn't it? So, if the whole thing has bothered me, I guess others would be even more upset...I don't get what's the meaning & the point of this new trend... You're right telling that if this is a show that isn't, for instance, as "Queer as folks" (I hope the title is right,'cause actually I didn't watch it), you'll have as a result lots of hetero couples to mix & play with, but few chances vice-versa, for the usually only gay-couple...Yes,of course it's true, but, if you're a little creative (& our great fans-fiction here prove it! ), I believe you can do nevertheless a good job at the end of a day. There could be some good options to choose the right path, or, as they're trying to do this days, they could even bring more gay-characters like Rob, as guest-stars, to be fair & true to the rest (PS_it's not a problem to be bi, of course! But it's like I have sensed they didn' really mean "bi", better "straight again"... ). Especially for these kind of matters (obviously as others too...But since now we're talking about this specific one), if I were the writer I would be extra-careful & first of all, RESPECTFUL. If not I mean...WHY EVEN DOING IT AT ALL?! If you're fooling people & then in the end you change the characters/plot upside down, it's not a "Forbidden Love"...Perhaps a "Forbidden Rubbish"?!? LOL ;D Besides, really it's a nasty plot, apart from the sexual-thing & all...Writing these lines I was recalling the strange treatment authors used for the interesting character of Olivia: even in that case, why a sudden weird exit for the actress like that 1?! & furthermore, do you feel it's normal that NOBODY ever cared about her to make a simple phone-call?! OMG ...Just a little example of a silly storyline, generally speaking. Thanks for replying & ciao
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Flaco&Lalo
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YAY! Hot gay footballers at last! (and none of them end up dead!) :)
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Post by Flaco&Lalo on Mar 8, 2010 20:09:20 GMT -5
WOW ! I haven't watched VL since Olivia's death (after a Summer of utter boredom), but a friend asked me for spoilers so I bumped into this thread and I'm shocked from what I've read ! Are their storylines going THAT way?? Gosh I still remember vividly the disappointment during Deniz/Vanessa :-( I don't want to relive that! did Thore really said those things?? I can't believe it ! ps: JFYI I don't know who wrote "Germany's premier gay soap couple" but this is actually a lie, both Lenny/Carsten (4 million viewers) and DeRo (3 million) have higher ratings and more airtime than Chrolli on VL (just 2 mil. viewers..).
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thunderkat
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Post by thunderkat on Mar 8, 2010 20:26:21 GMT -5
^^ A dead dog in the street has better ratings than VL at the moment,-especially on stick poking saturdays - but that doesn't take away from the essential magic that is/was/ will be again Christian and Olli . I just think it's important to remember that it was Chroust who created this story line, and he is someone who is going to have a much better grasp on identity politics and the meaning of labels. Of course we understand that for a soap convention the character must be bi innately in order to play musical chairs with the lovers. The perceived insult is from the inconsistency of (really Christian's) sexuality. In the boxing ring: I'm Gay, Ok? And I'm a boxer When andi came home: So you're...I mean you're really- Gay. Yep.
So here we have 2 instances of writers, one of which is POST -Chroust confirming through the characters mouth his conception of his sexuality. But I think it's a little essentialist of us, and perhaps i may be wrong, just playing devil's advocate... It's essentialist of us to assume that "gay" and "bi" mean the same thing to all people. I think it means the same thing to most of the people on this board, but the intricate politics that surround sexuality, I think are the same as those that surrounded (and continue to surround) race and ethnicity. We (I'm talking about westerners for the most part) have a tendency to have discomfort with unclear boundaries, and rightly so, b/c at times it's important to know where you stand. But on an individual level, I find, personally, that things rarely resolve themselves in a very clear cut manner. It could be that this insistence of maintining two identities, gay in the show, bi in interviews could be trying to push us out of our relative comfort zones. Now, seeing as Thore was a little mowgli jungle-boy bugle blowing non-kindergaarten attendee (god bless his adorable little soul!!! ), plus the fact that he's STRAIGHT I doubt that the idea of Sexuality as not only a biological persuasion but an identity and a culture to which many subscribe and affiliate has EVER crossed his mind. But it may be, I think we see that Thore has his stock answers (stubble, it's so far beyond me) and he just sticks to them. But little things like his cute little "Oh i would've fallen in love with Jo" show to me the progress of someone who may be starting to pierce the surface of this particular sector of identity politics. The thing is, Thore has had 2 years to do this. The writing staff is on such a revolving door, and have Chrolli as such a low priority that they don't care about character continuity, character identity or even take a second to THINK about what these characters say and the implications it might have. They really are wham bam, put out a script keep the train rolling ignore the declining ratings and press on! A little more thought, a little more care and I'm sure they'd find their problems fall into line. GRIPING a little bit at this dig about the ratings...but will endeavor to get over it... think of NY think of NY think of NY....
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Post by stregatta on Mar 8, 2010 20:49:06 GMT -5
Oops...You're right too, Mr Bunny ;-P) Honestly, I didn't mean to be harsh or else, really, is that I'm a little angry 'cause days go by & seems that this plot instead of getting better (as from everywhere they've promised us) is getting worse!! ;-8)
Besides, I'm not an avid fan of the genre, soI didn't know about the ratings etc, I care more about the catching storylines (everywhere, generally speaking...Fantasy & so on); anyway, now that you tell me this, I remember a friend telling me, back then (she was an expert of this genre! ;->) that this Chrolli's plot wasn't the best out there at all, suggesting to search for DeRo among the others I remember 'cause, I quote "if you like real drama..you've got it!"
Only now I've coming to term with the meaning of the advice... :-O)
Besides, even if (it's only my very personal feeling towards it) Chrolli aren't the most believed by gays (even if I never like to generalize),they probably are among straight people, of course especially women...I don't think it's a coincidence: it's because they're like a "teddy-bear", cute & reassuring, not vulgar, in short "the adorable-factor"!! LOL ;-*) (I guess for this reason Ollian are more "exportable" outisde Germany, easier to adapt to another market, for ex. US)
If you want more than wait forever a reasonable storyline, & you're not head-over-heels for actors Jo&Thore or an hardcore fan, perhaps it's better don't hope for a drastic change at this point...Ciao*
PS_I remember 1 of Thore's long interview for an Italian cable-tv, right after the boom of VL-story, & he always said that his character had become gay, that the production called him 1 day for telling about this new direction, & that he would have decided to accept it or not...Well, he had been the 1st to say yes, only in a 2nd time they contacted Jo, whom, knowing Thore would have been a good partner (& strong of having matured in other roles too) agreed with it.
I have to say 1 thing especially struck my attention: in this entire dialogue (which lasted almost 1 hour! Connected with fans all over the world) & a tv-host, he NEVER adressed a compliment or else regarding working with Jo...It almost looked like he was the 1 to do all the job, nothing about the chemestry that gave them so much, strange isn't it?! Even in 1 scene, when the man showed him the famous hospital-scene, of him worried for Olli's fate, he let slipped away the fact that, being in the audience, he wouldn't have "bought" it, referring to his acting...PRICELESS!! LOL ;-D)
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