|
Post by robblack on Jan 7, 2012 8:09:57 GMT -5
I'm bitter that Chrolli were hurriedly reconciled without Christian and Olli had to show great effort to save their marriage . I'm bitter that everything was swept under the rug and that the authors once again proved that Chrolli are not important enough to get a good well thought out SL with enough screen time.
and an another thing that makes me bitter : Chrolli are reconciled and happy again , their fans could be happy and satisfied. but it's sad and frustrating to see what a damage this incredibly long and frustrating SL has done in the Chrolli fandom. In recent days I've read through the comments on the fan sites of Jo and Thore, here on the board , on the YT channel and I've noticed that there is a lot of fans who have previously been used to write positive comments on the both characters, both actors and now they have only one favorite and they just tolerate , or completely ignore or even dislike the other one - and unfortunately It doesn't apply only to the characters but also the actors.I have a strange feeling of bitterness ,jealousy, hatred and hypocrisy in the comments from Chrolli-fans, Thor's fans , Jo's fans , Olli's fans, Christian's fans . and all the stuff around Chrolli ,their fans seems to me perhaps more depressing than bad SLs. it's a sad result of a bad writing in the last months and imo is unfortunately no more possible to fully correct this damage .
|
|
|
Post by moonstruck-me on Jan 7, 2012 10:20:19 GMT -5
I'm bitter that Chrolli were hurriedly reconciled without Christian and Olli had to show great effort to save their marriage . I'm bitter that everything was swept under the rug and that the authors once again proved that Chrolli are not important enough to get a good well thought out SL with enough screen time. and an another thing that makes me bitter : Chrolli are reconciled and happy again , their fans could be happy and satisfied. but it's sad and frustrating to see what a damage this incredibly long and frustrating SL has done in the Chrolli fandom. In recent days I've read through the comments on the fan sites of Jo and Thore, here on the board , on the YT channel and I've noticed that there is a lot of fans who have previously been used to write positive comments on the both characters, both actors and now they have only one favorite and they just tolerate , or completely ignore or even dislike the other one - and unfortunately It doesn't apply only to the characters but also the actors.I have a strange feeling of bitterness ,jealousy, hatred and hypocrisy in the comments from Chrolli-fans, Thor's fans , Jo's fans , Olli's fans, Christian's fans . and all the stuff around Chrolli ,their fans seems to me perhaps more depressing than bad SLs. it's a sad result of a bad writing in the last months and imo is unfortunately no more possible to fully correct this damage . And I'm bitter because I have to agree with everything you just said... I also have a difficult time watching the current Chrolli SL and feel how I did before Christian cheated the last time. And I think it's mainly because the writers haven't allowed Chrolli to discuss what went wrong and how they will move on from that. The wedding 2.0 was very rushed and I'm sad that I don't feel the same way for Chrolli I did once...
|
|
|
Post by everettb100 on Jan 7, 2012 12:28:43 GMT -5
I have refrained from posting to the bitterness forum, but must say I am bitter because I believe that the writers and producers may have intended the storyline of this past year to effect a distruction of the Chrolli fan base. And the way they have handled the reconciliation, with rushed mini storylines and limited screen time is an indication to me that Chrolli may indeed be on their way out. I am a fan through youtube so am not aware of the prime time fanbase of VL, but have heard that Chrolli is not the phenom that we have thought. In fact, some have said to me that it is not a popular soap couple or storyline. If that is the case, then there are economic reasons for the demise of the SL. I think it a shame. They certainly invested greatly in the horrible storyline of the previous 8 months. I will never understand the investment in characters over an 3 year period, only to systematically tear those characters apart over 8 months. I could not even recognize Olli and Christian in that storyline. I am glad they put them back together, for the iconic internet value of Chrolli, but unless they are prepared to invest in the reconstruction of these great characters, and take advantage of these great talents, then let them move away as a couple and see if VL survives that. I often hear how popular the other storylines are......
|
|
|
Post by sonia38 on Jan 7, 2012 19:45:19 GMT -5
I'm glad that they are back together because that's where they should be. I'm not going to complain much cause I did that already but I'm a tad bitter because Chrolli can do so much more but not given the chance, they don't get enough screen time or even a good story while newbies come on and get all the glory and all the screen time but the the couple I consider the best can't even get a good 10 minutes a show and not even a good three days per week.
What he said.
|
|
philos
Full Member
F?r immer mit dir
Posts: 1,743
|
Post by philos on Jan 7, 2012 20:51:31 GMT -5
I have refrained from posting to the bitterness forum, but must say I am bitter because I believe that the writers and producers may have intended the storyline of this past year to effect a distruction of the Chrolli fan base. And the way they have handled the reconciliation, with rushed mini storylines and limited screen time is an indication to me that Chrolli may indeed be on their way out. I am a fan through youtube so am not aware of the prime time fanbase of VL, but have heard that Chrolli is not the phenom that we have thought. In fact, some have said to me that it is not a popular soap couple or storyline. If that is the case, then there are economic reasons for the demise of the SL. I think it a shame. They certainly invested greatly in the horrible storyline of the previous 8 months. I will never understand the investment in characters over an 3 year period, only to systematically tear those characters apart over 8 months. I could not even recognize Olli and Christian in that storyline. I am glad they put them back together, for the iconic internet value of Chrolli, but unless they are prepared to invest in the reconstruction of these great characters, and take advantage of these great talents, then let them move away as a couple and see if VL survives that. I often hear how popular the other storylines are...... mah! I didn't hear these comments about how much more popular are the other storylines...
|
|
angel
Junior Member
Posts: 390
|
Post by angel on Jan 8, 2012 4:57:11 GMT -5
I'm bitter that Christian's sexuality will always be vague..... for reasons we all are aware of but refuse to accept Because the real answer is: We (the writers) don't care and don't really think about it all that much. Honey, the whole series goes down, because of the lazy and bad writting. Its even worser than under Feiler, and thats means something. With that writting stuff, I dont believe VL survive 2013.
|
|
|
Post by polkadottie on Jan 8, 2012 9:55:41 GMT -5
I have refrained from posting to the bitterness forum, but must say I am bitter because I believe that the writers and producers may have intended the storyline of this past year to effect a distruction of the Chrolli fan base. And the way they have handled the reconciliation, with rushed mini storylines and limited screen time is an indication to me that Chrolli may indeed be on their way out. I am a fan through youtube so am not aware of the prime time fanbase of VL, but have heard that Chrolli is not the phenom that we have thought. In fact, some have said to me that it is not a popular soap couple or storyline. If that is the case, then there are economic reasons for the demise of the SL. I think it a shame. They certainly invested greatly in the horrible storyline of the previous 8 months. I will never understand the investment in characters over an 3 year period, only to systematically tear those characters apart over 8 months. I could not even recognize Olli and Christian in that storyline. I am glad they put them back together, for the iconic internet value of Chrolli, but unless they are prepared to invest in the reconstruction of these great characters, and take advantage of these great talents, then let them move away as a couple and see if VL survives that. I often hear how popular the other storylines are...... I hear you. I share many of these worries. Still, I take comfort in the fact that Jo & Thore never will belittle the impact of "Chrolli" to the fanbase and that they work hard with whatever material they get to make the best of it. I certainly hope that writers/producers will at least credit Jo&Thore with angst free Chrolli material to work with for the whole of 2012. Also, I take comfort in that domestic (German) viewers like Olli and Christian as a pair, and the reason for their storyline not being a phenomenon there is simply that it became too much back and forth. (There were some posts on this just the other day in the general discussion thread.)
|
|
|
Post by lolaruns on Jan 8, 2012 10:01:53 GMT -5
I'm not sure that angst free is something any actor actually looks forward to. I do think that Chrolli will be around as long as Jo and Thore want to stay. Whether they'll actually have storylines is a very different matter though
|
|
|
Post by polkadottie on Jan 8, 2012 10:29:50 GMT -5
I'm not sure that angst free is something any actor actually looks forward to. I do think that Chrolli will be around as long as Jo and Thore want to stay. Whether they'll actually have storylines is a very different matter though I know, I know... What I mean by angst free is a good life-as-married storyline that at least stays away of cheating, deaths or so... The producers/writers do have a chance now to break new frontiers if they want/dare, to show Chrolli's gay married life as it could actually be irl... Ok, with a little soap twist but still. And that storyline could last for a while or as long as Jo & Thore wanted, that is. Edit: Even Jo himself mentioned in an interview that exploring married life would be a good SL. So there.
|
|
|
Post by sonia38 on Jan 8, 2012 14:37:48 GMT -5
For some reasons it seems the writers have a block on how to write a happy couple and make them interesting, it seems all they know is infidelity and death so I sort of agree with this:
If people are not happy they are going to tune out and when they tune out your ratings drop and the next step is cancellation and who would be the blame for that?
|
|
|
Post by lolaruns on Jan 8, 2012 15:06:54 GMT -5
For some reasons it seems the writers have a block on how to write a happy couple and make them interesting, it seems all they know is infidelity and death so I sort of agree with this: IMO it's just not their genre. It's like expecting a professional basket ball player to also be a world class skier from one day to the next. It's not that they have a block, it's just not what they were made for. Makes you wonder whether gay couples are just bad luck for soaps => OLTL, ATWT I'd be sad if Chrolli ended up being remembered as one of the things that killed VL because they couldn't let go nor go ahead. Like smothered it to death in its embrace. I'd prefer they leave and leave to die VL on its own rather than stick it out till the bitter end.
|
|
|
Post by everettb100 on Jan 8, 2012 15:33:43 GMT -5
What killed the US soaps with gay storylines were the conservative sponsors for daytime soaps. The restrictions they placed on the writers/producers, created characters that ultimately became unbelievable. For example 3 years of an exclusive relationship before Noah and Luke consummated their relationship. What universe would that happen in? I sawa an interview recently with the two actors that had those roles and they had a hard time answering the questions about the storyline, at the time. That is because they were given explicit orders on what they could and could not say. I do not sense that the actors of german tv have those restrictions. There is just so much potential here, but it is not enough to have great actors, you have to have great material. Knowing what they were capable of before 2011, I choose to have faith about 2012, but whatever happens - am grateful for what we had up until 2011.
|
|
|
Post by lolaruns on Jan 8, 2012 16:19:03 GMT -5
I don't think that gay storylines have much to do, positively or negatively, with the decline of soaps in the us. If you look the rating drop is dramatic on all soaps, whether they never had any gay stories ever, had neutered gay stories or less neutered gay stories.
In Germany most shows have had gay stories at one point or another and none without intimacy. Yet most German soaps subscribe to a semi-telenovela style or even come directly out of telenovelas. And even the ones that are traditional soap style like the juggernaut GZSZ don't have anything like the supercouple concept of the American soaps. Instead they do the opposite, more gritty, close to life stories, quick to write characters out, break up couples etc
The American supercouple concept just isn't workable.
|
|
carld2
Full Member
Posts: 2,111
|
Post by carld2 on Jan 8, 2012 16:58:55 GMT -5
OLTL actually fell further in the ratings after they wrote their gay couple out. I don't think gay couples had anything to do with the end of ATWT or OLTL. If you look at the last years of those shows, they are by and large terrible, with only a few patches of good to very good moments. US daytime dramas became about reactionary views, fear, misogyny, contempt for the genre (no well paced long term stories, no history, no continuity, nothing but violence and ugliness).
|
|
|
Post by lolaruns on Jan 9, 2012 12:28:47 GMT -5
On topic: Oh, wow, the follow up screentime Chrolli is getting for their wedding is just amazing!
|
|
jos87
Full Member
Posts: 2,297
|
Post by jos87 on Jan 9, 2012 12:36:40 GMT -5
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2012 12:38:06 GMT -5
I'm bitter because, considering how bad the writing for Chrolli is , how little screen time they have, how bad their scenes/episodes are edited ... I'm not as much sad, upset and angry as much I should probably be I'm bitter that I'm beginning to think that I follow this show just to see at least a little bit of my favorite character/my favorite actor and from Chrolli and their story I don't expect almost anything meaningful . that I probably don't care about Chrolli as much as I should/I want , makes me feel bitter more than the hasty reconciliation and bad written stories , where everything was swept under the carpet. On topic: Oh, wow, the follow up screentime Chrolli is getting for their wedding is just amazing! yes! I am also excited
|
|
|
Post by lolaruns on Jan 9, 2012 13:02:09 GMT -5
I think what makes me most bitter is that most (general) people won't even feel like anything is missing. Because to them the Chrolli wedding was "last week". So it's not even off to them that it was just half an episode ending on a never resolved shot on them. While if you actually watch the episodes back to back it's jarring as FUCK how the first part doesn't fit with the next one at all.
|
|
|
Post by dalphine on Jan 9, 2012 14:33:48 GMT -5
I'm disappointed that they didn't leave off were they did on Tuesday with Chrolli. I hate when they show a scene but it doesn't end up in the esp. BAD BAD
|
|
|
Post by teachgirl on Jan 9, 2012 14:51:06 GMT -5
I'm disappointed that they didn't leave off were they did on Tuesday with Chrolli. I hate when they show a scene but it doesn't end up in the esp. BAD BAD I wasn't really expecting to see them today, but there was a tiny part of me that held out hope that maybe, this time .... Those spoiler photos really were misleading. So now I know to always expect nothing.
|
|
vjay
Junior Member
Posts: 413
|
Post by vjay on Jan 10, 2012 14:13:10 GMT -5
OLTL actually fell further in the ratings after they wrote their gay couple out. I don't think gay couples had anything to do with the end of ATWT or OLTL. If you look at the last years of those shows, they are by and large terrible, with only a few patches of good to very good moments. US daytime dramas became about reactionary views, fear, misogyny, contempt for the genre (no well paced long term stories, no history, no continuity, nothing but violence and ugliness). I think this was an excuse created by the OLTL writers because Kish was actually VERY popular with the audience. The problem was the writers didn't know how to write a gay male couple BEYOND the coming out story! The big conflict between Kyle and Oliver was Oliver refused to admit he was gay. Finally, the guys got together and the writers just didn't want to explore other storylines. I feel the same kind of thing is happening to Christian and Oliver on VL. The writers don't know what to do with the guys now and their story is being pushed into the background. All the writers focus on is sex in relation to infidelity as though that is the ONLY problems gay couples have. I have said this before I think the VL writers need to hire some more actors perhaps another gay couple and make Christian and Oliver have some gay friends. I always found it bizarre that Christian and Oliver are the only two homosexuals in Dusseldorf. The show needs to give the guys some gay friends to make their storyline more interesting.
|
|
|
Post by dalphine on Jan 10, 2012 14:24:47 GMT -5
I agree with you about that they should give them some gay friends.
|
|
|
Post by amk on Mar 7, 2012 15:59:45 GMT -5
Ok I've enough .... what we can see from Chrolli now , that has nothing really nothing to do with Chrolli that I used to like they look liek very strange "couple"... just like two friends, roommates, nothing more. and sorry , Christians fans, today he was almost always so stiff as if it was big suffering for him to spend time with those strange people (including his husband )in the flatshare and their embrace on the couch was totally weird I wonder if Thore and Jo have ever seen that scene and how unnatural ,stiff and forced their embrace looks... an another disappointment to me so for me personally it means unfortunately only one thing - I'll wait till Ollis leaving ( Jos filming pause ) and then bye bye Verbotene Liebe , I don't want to watch this show anymore
|
|
JWfan
New Member
Jo Weil
Posts: 190
|
Post by JWfan on Mar 7, 2012 16:09:06 GMT -5
Ok I've enough .... what we can see from Chrolli now , that has nothing really nothing to do with Chrolli that I used to like they look liek very strange "couple"... just like two friends, roommates, nothing more. and sorry , Christians fans, today he was almost always so stiff as if it was big suffering for him to spend time with those strange people (including his husband )in the flatshare and their embrace on the couch was totally weird I wonder if Thore and Jo have ever seen that scene and how unnatural ,stiff and forced their embrace looks... an another disappointment to me so for me personally it means unfortunately only one thing - I'll wait till Ollis leaving ( Jos filming pause ) and then bye bye Verbotene Liebe , I don't want to watch this show anymore I haven't seen the episode but I agree the embrace does look weird and forced...what happened to them ??
|
|
|
Post by laurenroclif on May 28, 2012 0:28:53 GMT -5
What irks me was that Christian became bi-curious after Oli (forcefully) kissed him. It Could've been bettered had Christian developed a bi-curious mind after Oli's return and tried to bed Oli with Oli trying to reject C's advances as C was with Coco. Watching C lust after O would've been great.
|
|