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Post by psychocandy on Nov 25, 2011 21:58:03 GMT -5
I think this "Reunion" story is being written in the worst way possible so as to guarantee the least satsifaction to Chrollifans. It seems to be done in a grudgeful way. Like saying "Well, you kept bugging us for a reunion, so here it is, try and enjoy it if you can!" And they're doing everything in their power to make sure we can't. Instead of the reactions of happiness and hope a reunion story should engender there's rancour, sadness, frustration, disillusion, confusion, disappointment, absurdity, the list goes on, resulting in viewer distress. I ask myself the question, why is it being written this way? The only answer I can come up with is that the writers really hate Chrollifans and perhaps Chrolli as well. They're turning the character's into figures of fun. So I suspect this "reunion" is a form of writer's revenge, for being forced to write for a couple or for characters that they no longer have an interest in. And it's as if they're deliberately trying to pit fans against each other by repeating an endless cycle of taking it in turns to portray each character in an unlikeable nonsensical way. They certain know which buttons to press to get a reaction. It's working with a vengance. It's all so absurd I wish I could laugh.
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Post by lolaruns on Nov 26, 2011 1:43:40 GMT -5
Well we don't know how it will actually be done. But if it is indeed bad, maybe it's more that they had to reunite them quickly because they'll be written off and they had to squeeze in the reunion before that Or, more likely, them being together is required by some other storyline. (people have speculated that Jessica might get pregnant somehow and they might Chrolli-as-a-couple support for that).
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vjay
Junior Member
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Post by vjay on Nov 26, 2011 9:37:54 GMT -5
The writers need to resolve the problems Christian and Oliver have but they don't do that and that's a shame.
I guess I am the only one feeling that either Thore or Jo is going to leave VL next year. I think the writers have pushed the characters as far as they can but fans are not satisfied. I think Thore is probably going to leave the show next year and the writers are trying to find a way to exit his character. Thore is the best looking guy on the show, he speaks good English. Thore also has the looks and most importantly the acting talent to make it in America. This whole heart problem storyline keeps on resurfacing and I think Thore will leave before the end of 2012.
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Post by psychocandy on Nov 26, 2011 9:41:04 GMT -5
[Posted by lolaruns on Today at 1:43am Well we don't know how it will actually be done. But if it is indeed bad, maybe it's more that they had to reunite them quickly because they'll be written off and they had to squeeze in the reunion before that ] That too crossed my mind. That perhaps this rushed "reunion" was done this way because one or other of the actors was leaving the show. But in any case it's still stupidly written in a manner guaranteed to cause frustration and disatisfaction for the viewer. So I think the unsatisfactory writing is a deliberate strategy. Metaphorically giving the finger to the fans. Can it really be dismissed as just laziness or incompetence on the part of the writer's? I found it strange that they were reuniting Chrolli after going to such a systematic effort to break them up. The break-up seemed final to me. The writer's were so determined to sunder the couple they were willing to destroy Christian's character in the proccess. I understand that this created a lot of hostility among the domestic German fans. And I'm certain this was a wake up call for VL producers. So I think that may have a part to play in why this reunion was initially undertaken, as a means to redeem Christian so his character remains viable. That explains for me why Olli is currently being written so unsympathetically too, so the onus of the continuation of the seperation falls on his shoulders and a lot of sympathy is generated for Christian. And in a way this explains the re-introduction of Rafa for me too. It seems to be working a treat when you read YouTube reactions to the recent episodes. If my reading of the situation is correct then it would suggest that VL were intending to keep Christian around and perhaps Olli was going to be written out. If both characters were being written out why would they need to redeem Christian at the expense of Olli? Maybe in the interim the show HAS decided to be shed of both actors? But who the hell knows with VL! I think you might have mentioned in a previous post that it was if they pass the script around to different sets of writers and that's why this SL doesn't make sense. I laughed when I read that, I had the same thought. Maybe the reason for the disjointedness of the writing IS as simple as that?
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Post by dalphine on Nov 26, 2011 10:18:37 GMT -5
I just have this to say I'm really not bitter any more, but I didn't like the way they handle the break- up in the beginning. Yell of course the writers we blame because they write the words and the actors, actor them out.
But I do believe the actor wanted a challenge and the break-up gave them that. They didn't like being happy all the time. Even thou they like each other off and on the scene I think they wanted to act with different partners. Actors like challenge and Jo and Thore wanted that. This is JMO
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Post by lolaruns on Nov 26, 2011 11:16:27 GMT -5
The writers need to resolve the problems Christian and Oliver have but they don't do that and that's a shame. I guess I am the only one feeling that either Thore or Jo is going to leave VL next year. I think the writers have pushed the characters as far as they can but fans are not satisfied. I think Thore is probably going to leave the show next year and the writers are trying to find a way to exit his character. Thore is the best looking guy on the show, he speaks good English. Thore also has the looks and most importantly the acting talent to make it in America. This whole heart problem storyline keeps on resurfacing and I think Thore will leave before the end of 2012. Though that isn't strictly bitter: I'd be surprised. To me Thore always seemed very "tied to the soil" to me and has even gave off the impression as if he would consider giving up acting to return to his home town. But yeah, the recent promo stuff made me wonder. If maybe they are on their way out and know it and therefore feel less tied to their characters and more like just having fun rather than posing in character. Then again, Dana didn't pose with Hagen and Marlene didn't pose with Tristan and the teens didn't really pose in their couple combinations either so it probably means nothing.
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philos
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Post by philos on Nov 26, 2011 11:44:21 GMT -5
I don't think Jo or Thore are leaving; the current SL was the perfect occasion for an end, but not; after, the collapse of Christian, but not; more, the reunion but not; the honeymoon, but not. I stop here, we must wait next episodes for news ;D ;D Wait, this is the bitterness 3d! I must leave!
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Post by lolaruns on Nov 26, 2011 12:05:30 GMT -5
I don't think Jo or Thore are leaving; the current SL was the perfect occasion for an end, but not; after, the collapse of Christian, but not; more, the reunion but not; the honeymoon, but not. I stop here, we must wait next episodes for news ;D ;D Wait, this is the bitterness 3d! I must leave! It's not rare for VL to write out couples that way though. Gregor and Luise and Sarah and Leonard come to mind. They got together, wrapped up their storylines and then had sort of low pressure storyline period (oddly both of their also dealt with kids quite a bit) which was really the warm up to them leaving.
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bel7003
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You've got the most beautiful eyes and you'll always be the one for me
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Post by bel7003 on Nov 26, 2011 12:05:37 GMT -5
Wait, this is the bitterness 3d! I must leave! That's what I was going to say. What are you doing here?
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Post by deepdarkmidnight on Nov 27, 2011 17:38:47 GMT -5
I think this "Reunion" story is being written in the worst way possible so as to guarantee the least satsifaction to Chrollifans. It seems to be done in a grudgeful way. Like saying "Well, you kept bugging us for a reunion, so here it is, try and enjoy it if you can!" And they're doing everything in their power to make sure we can't. Instead of the reactions of happiness and hope a reunion story should engender there's rancour, sadness, frustration, disillusion, confusion, disappointment, absurdity, the list goes on, resulting in viewer distress. I ask myself the question, why is it being written this way? The only answer I can come up with is that the writers really hate Chrollifans and perhaps Chrolli as well. They're turning the character's into figures of fun. So I suspect this "reunion" is a form of writer's revenge, for being forced to write for a couple or for characters that they no longer have an interest in. And it's as if they're deliberately trying to pit fans against each other by repeating an endless cycle of taking it in turns to portray each character in an unlikeable nonsensical way. They certain know which buttons to press to get a reaction. It's working with a vengance. It's all so absurd I wish I could laugh. I feel pretty the same things , and I agree with many of your words. I would add that their breakup was not better written. So, would you two prefer Christian to leave to Brandenburg while Olli stays at Düsseldorf with Raphael? Sorry, but the reunion episodes haven't even aired yet, how do you know they're gonna be that bad? I for one, have loved every episodes of this story, and I know I will love the episodes of these next two weeks. I don't care about the writting (if it's realistic or not), and I don't waste time thinking of how this is could be better. Things are as they are, you either like them or not. VL has no the best writers on Earth, but I think we are the luckiest fandom ever, for being able to enjoy Chrolli's togetherness after almost 4 years. Chrolli still exits thanks to their fans, and thanks to amazing people as Nanna and May. Be happy we are still able to see the amazing chemistry between Thore and Jo on screen. Peace.
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Post by psychocandy on Nov 28, 2011 1:26:00 GMT -5
So, would you two prefer Christian to leave to Brandenburg while Olli stays at Düsseldorf with Raphael? Sorry, but the reunion episodes haven't even aired yet, how do you know they're gonna be that bad? I for one, have loved every episodes of this story, and I know I will love the episodes of these next two weeks. I don't care about the writting (if it's realistic or not), and I don't waste time thinking of how this is could be better. Things are as they are, you either like them or not. VL has no the best writers on Earth, but I think we are the luckiest fandom ever, for being able to enjoy Chrolli's togetherness after almost 4 years. Chrolli still exits thanks to their fans, and thanks to amazing people as Nanna and May. Be happy we are still able to see the amazing chemistry between Thore and Jo on screen. Peace. I was under the impression that this was the "bitterness thread" created precisely for those people who are upset with the way the story is being written and pessimistic about the story improving, so that they have a place to come and vent their feelings without disturbing the harmonious tranquility of the other threads. You know, like the current episode thread where almost unanimously the commenters are busy Olli bashing at the moment. I was very respectful and posted my comments regarding my disappointment in the storyline in what I believe is the appropriate place. To quote Bonobochick who created the thread: opening this one up for those who feel less optimistic about the direction of the show so that those who are still enjoying the show can continue to do so in other threads with fewer pessismistic comments from others who aren't feeling as cheery. These type of threads are often opened up when fans become disappointed or disenchanted with the way a show is going and want better but are not too hopeful in the showrunners in making positive changes. The rules are as such: this thread is for people who are feeling cynical about the turn of events or lack of substantive storytelling and the like. This thread is not to bash actors nor other posters. This thread helps the naysayers voice their opinions without conflict from those who feel opposite and continue to enjoy all aspects of the show. Have at it without too much vitriol I don't understand your comment "So, would you two prefer Christian to leave to Brandenburg while Olli stays at Düsseldorf with Raphael?" Nothing in my posts could be interpreted as that being my desired outcome for Christian and Oliver. I really take offence that just because I am critical of the writing that you imply I would prefer that Chrolli go their separate ways. I would never desire that. I can't follow the logic of your assumption. Perhaps you have me mixed up with other commenters in the spoiler or episode threads who have suggested that as their preference, with quite a bit of vitriol thrown in. Dare I suggest that you should have a go at them instead? Good for you if you don't care about the writing. But I do care, and that's the point of my comments. I do think about what I'm watching and try and make sense of things to the best of my ability . Or try and reason out why things don't make sense. And I believe I'm entitled to my opinion and my conclusions. Everyone has their own way of watching and/or enjoying the show. I consider these episodes that we are now watching (from Christian first approaching Olli about selling the house, to this Rafael mess, as well as the divorce) as forming part of the reconciliation story. So in essence they are part of the reunion story. I hope this answers your question: "Sorry, but the reunion episodes haven't even aired yet, how do you know they're gonna be that bad?" And so far, as I am finding them very unsatisfactory, I think that it requires no great leap of the imagination to have doubts that things will improve. But there is always hope, or otherwise I wouldn't still be watching. I find your attitude condescending in your suggestion that I should "be happy" with what we've been served. It reminds me of a scene from Oliver Twist when he hesitantly holds out his bowl and has the temerity to say "I want more". Was he wrong for wanting better than what he was given? I am forever grateful to wonderful Nana, May, Joanna and others who have through their generosity and selfless effort shared Chrolli (Jo and Thore especially). Dissatisfaction with the current story in no way implies disrespect to them as you seem to be hinting at by your comment. If you're so happy, why are you posting on the bitterness thread? Let me sing a little song here...Ta-ra-olli-olli-olli! Were you being provocative when you signed off with "Peace " after admonishing me for being upset with the story? Umm, I think I just answered my own question! Peace
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joanna
Senior Member
Former Verbotene Liebe Champion.
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Post by joanna on Nov 28, 2011 6:23:49 GMT -5
Thought I'd 'venture' in here in my capacity as moderator and.... writer bashing, poster bashing.... psychocandy, cool things right now, please. Yes, you of course are entitled to your opinions, but this being the Bitterness Thread doesn't mean it's then okay to make those personal to the writers and your fellow posters. I'm finding your posts incredibly antagonistic. Respectful and considerate posting applies EVERYWHERE on this board. The 'bitterness' of this thread is only for the storyline itself, not for those behind it and those posting about it. So please just stick to airing your opinions on the story content only and not on anything/anybody else. If you have issue/are upset by any other poster, for whatever reason, then PM either myself or another mod about it; don't bring those issues onto the board itself. Thanks.
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Post by psychocandy on Nov 28, 2011 10:12:12 GMT -5
DeepDarkMidnight and Joanna, I apologize for my comment about "ta-ra-..." . That was personal and uncalled for. As was my comment about DDM's use of the word "peace". In hindsight, I can see my tone reads as snarky when I replied to what DDM wrote in response to my initial post. I apologize for that. I overreacted to being accused of wanting Chrolli seperated just because I feel pessimistic about the story. I was attempting to write a systematic rebuttal of what I understood to be personal criticism. I thought I was being slightly humourous too, but obviously not. I don't believe I was antagonistic to any other poster however, other than a general snark about the Olli bashing going on. I apologize for the writer bashing. I didn't realise being critical about the writers was not allowed. So, I guess speculating about the motivation for writing the SL as it is also qualifies as writer bashing.
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Post by everettb100 on Nov 28, 2011 10:31:30 GMT -5
I think the emotion expressed, by so many, is a tribute to the investment people have in the characters developed in the first 3 years. We have to be hopeful that there will be a return of same. Who knows the soap world; I certainly don't. What I do know thought is that we are better off to have had the Chrolli storyline for whatever timeframe we have it going forward and for the first 3 years. It has been a joy to watch and has made a difference in many lives, which for a TV show is indeed a bonus. It is my hope that, whatever the future holds, the characters will be respected, their experiences and deeds admired, and that VL is very successful in doing so. With success comes commitment. When the time comes for it to end, and we know that that is probable at some point - that it will be done in a way that the viewers can embrace, as well as these brilliant actors. Thanks to youtube, we always have the episodes to view down the road.
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Post by thissoapisnonsense on Dec 20, 2011 23:52:21 GMT -5
I hate both Christian and Ollie now. I also hate Jessica and Rafael. I hate them all. The storyline is frustrating, it just sucks. It's not even realistic. A beautiful gay couple has been ruined by bad writing.
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philos
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Post by philos on Dec 21, 2011 3:48:39 GMT -5
I hate both Christian and Ollie now. I also hate Jessica and Rafael. I hate them all. The storyline is frustrating, it just sucks. It's not even realistic. A beautiful gay couple has been ruined by bad writing. so, simply stop to follow VL, it's easy! Hate is a so depressing thing... surely, it exists another TV soap to follow for the moment, I hope you'll find a more satisfacting story
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Post by thissoapisnonsense on Dec 21, 2011 4:44:52 GMT -5
I hate both Christian and Ollie now. I also hate Jessica and Rafael. I hate them all. The storyline is frustrating, it just sucks. It's not even realistic. A beautiful gay couple has been ruined by bad writing. so, simply stop to follow VL, it's easy! Hate is a so depressing thing... surely, it exists another TV soap to follow for the moment, I hope you'll find a more satisfacting story lol I stopped watching since the reunion episode already. just checking back regularly here to see if things are any better. guess not
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philos
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Post by philos on Dec 21, 2011 6:03:57 GMT -5
so, simply stop to follow VL, it's easy! Hate is a so depressing thing... surely, it exists another TV soap to follow for the moment, I hope you'll find a more satisfacting story lol I stopped watching since the reunion episode already. just checking back regularly here to see if things are any better. guess not In this case, I hope all the best for you, but depending of what is better in your opinion, I'm not sure I'll be glad to have you back! Just joking, of course!
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Post by fifi1992 on Dec 21, 2011 10:53:25 GMT -5
omg there is actually a bitterness thread. I am shocked.... That's impressive guys (!)
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Post by dalphine on Dec 21, 2011 12:07:59 GMT -5
I'm posting here because I'm bitter because some people are not happy about Chrolli being back together. WTF do you want we had to go thru all that crap for months and now I'm happy and some people aren't. Just ranting not mad at anyone because everyone has there opinion.
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Post by thissoapisnonsense on Dec 21, 2011 13:31:32 GMT -5
I thought this thread is for people who are not happy with the storyline? it's not a general bitterness thread so I think if you're bitter with people not happy about chrolli being back together, the general discussion thread is a better place.
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vjay
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Post by vjay on Dec 23, 2011 14:25:00 GMT -5
Well I feel the writers let Christian and Oliver be separated for TOO LONG. The rush to get the guys back together just rings FALSE to me. There are so many unresolved problems such as Oliver's drama queen antics, his need force Christian to follow his point of view. NOTHING was solved there was only one brief conversation a few episodes ago about it.
Also, when is Christian going to say point blank is he GAY OR BISEXUAL? Another poster pointed out that the writers still haven't decided if Christian is gay and I am pissed off about that! I think if the writers want to say Christian is bisexual at least let the character SAY he also wants to be with women. The writers need to make it clear is Christian BISEXUAL or GAY.
I also don't like seeing Christian kissing and having sex with women. I feel the writers are only doing this to bring in a female fan base. Some people might disagree with me but I think there is something subversive about Christian getting it on with women.
I also don't believe that a gorgeous man like Christian would have eyes ONLY for Oliver that's bullshit. Why haven't the writers made Christian at least have a sexual attraction to ANOTHER MAN. I find it hard to believe he only has eyes for Oliver. Whenever Christian and Oliver have conflict is always about some guy chasing Oliver.
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Post by lolaruns on Jan 7, 2012 1:15:32 GMT -5
I'm bitter that through the entire story we never got an honest discussion of Christian's sexuality and everything is once again left to assumption. Yes they are back together and happy but it's not like that would have been negated by one good conversation on this subject.
I'm bitter that they never brought up whether it is a really a good thing for their relationship for Olli to mommy it up.
I'm bitter that Christian didn't at least get an interesting new job (police? hospital?) or at least job related story (the details of him being able get back to work) out of this.
I'm bitter that their wedding was more about Tristan and Marlene and Emilio than it was about themselves.
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Post by phoenix-feather on Jan 7, 2012 2:30:32 GMT -5
I'm bitter that Christian's sexuality will always be vague..... for reasons we all are aware of but refuse to accept
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Post by lolaruns on Jan 7, 2012 6:52:12 GMT -5
I'm bitter that Christian's sexuality will always be vague..... for reasons we all are aware of but refuse to accept Because the real answer is: We (the writers) don't care and don't really think about it all that much.
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