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Post by Bonobochick on Dec 10, 2008 0:05:55 GMT -5
There seems to be some interest in the show (I haven't watched it yet but I have friends who do), especially the HoYay, so I thought I would open a thread for people to discuss that show. In respect of others, please color code any spoilers posted. Thanks
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Post by ivaniv on Dec 10, 2008 13:49:16 GMT -5
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Post by matan4il on Dec 10, 2008 14:50:08 GMT -5
Hey Ivan, it's just all around yummy, isn't it? Thank you so much for that link, I adore the show and I was so scared it wouldn't get renewed because the BBC would freak out over the obviousness of the gay subtext... I linked this elsewhere, but it seems to be more appropriate to post the link here as well. Two columns about the gayness of Merlin (though I prefer the earlier one) - blog.pxe.co.il/afterivri/tag/merlin/
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Post by darcolover55 on Dec 10, 2008 15:33:26 GMT -5
I used to have to get shots in my arm every week as a kid for asthma (that's how they rolled inthe 70s). Hurts like H. E. Double Hockey Sticks! So sorry sugar. Drink lots of fluids to keep everything moving around. I'm excited about Merlin. I'm trying to not be disappointed by the fact that the subtext (as overt as it may be a times) will only ever be subtext (though, couldn't Merlin hav some other young boy loves...?) I love everything else about it and I know once can only go but so far in retelling a classic story of Lancelot, et al. It's kinda like Fractured Fairytales only its Fractured Medieval Tales. ;D Love me some Anthony Stewart Head too. Gilles was the man (one of my favorite Gilles moments was during the "Glory" days when he had to "deal" with human host doctor boy, sad but so good!) Buffy was my obsession for 7 years and the envy of every girlfriend I had during that time. I even planned some of my grad school schedule around getting to see Buffy in the early years (before, Tivo, DVR and online viewing). Can't wait to really get into the Merlinness!
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Post by ivaniv on Dec 10, 2008 15:39:02 GMT -5
It's still not official, but I think Anthony wouldn't tell that if he wasn't sure. I don't think BBC mind that Merlin has a gay following and as far as I know the ratings have been very good even if they kept moving the broadcast time around and it was against X Factor PS: not a big fan of fan videos, but this one is a piece of art de.youtube.com/watch?v=Zz2netvXW5Ade.youtube.com/watch?v=Zz2netvXW5A
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Post by lucrece on Dec 11, 2008 13:02:33 GMT -5
I just watched the episodes through youtube, and I must say I don't quite see the gay subtext. Arthur's interactions with Morgana scream future canon pair (fighting all the time, but love is reconciliation; Arthur and Merlin's reactions to Morgana's appearance).
Now to Merlin: People have to keep in mind that he sees himself with low self-esteem ("Am I a monster?"), and that he craves approval and companionship. Thus, the wounded reactions whenever Arthur spurns him. When they sleep in the tent, they sleep in an opposite manner (each one's foot to the other, as opposed to sleeping beside each other). Merlin's attentions to Arthur are just that: Trying to please. This is not uncommon in straight male friendships. As much as society likes to play with innuendo, there are many straight friendships like these; women are not the only ones capable of having close relationships.
Of course, the whole "must keep the gift closeted" can be interpreted as gay subtext. Well, High School Musical was also given a gay interpretation -- surprisingly enough by gay men *rolls eyes*-- despite the movie going through every pain of coding the single gay character (which is homophobic by itself).
What I see here is the usual craving by many gay men to modify perceptions of shows so that they may establish a connection with them. Anything with the motifs of "hiding"-- take Romeo & Juliet-- can be given "gay subtext". The question is, is it enough to justify an interest from a gay person's POV? To stand beside shows like VL, Till The Wedding; shows with no main gay characters, but actually out supporting cast? Is wanting to see what was not meant to be canon a safe course of action? Would it not lead to disappointment when the expected heterosexual canon is included?
This is one of my main pet peeves with slashing characters; it utterly erases part of their scripted elements. Of course, if this show can convey that reactions to Morgana are superficial/perfunctory, that the men remain single throughout the series, leaving an open loop, it might be better considered a "Gay" show.
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Post by ivaniv on Dec 11, 2008 17:31:04 GMT -5
For me Merlin is an excellent programme on its own without any subtexts gay or otherwise being planted in it. It does feel a bit homoerotic sometimes and those are feelings I am not going to fight For today's viewer Merlin's situation when he hides a secret that he cannot change or get rid, something that could get him into danger when revealed, this situation can be best understood without any contrivances as being gay. It does not fit every situation 100%, because it is not supposed to, but I think it helps to understand how Merlin feels. This together with actors' great chemistry is probably a main reason of slash, which is not anything more than just a bit of fun. That;s how I see it anyway. BTW I don't think Merlin has a low self esteem, he's rather afraid that this gift may take over him and change him. He surely did not have a problem to stand up and fight Arthur, or just simply tell him what he thinks. He earned Arthur's gratitude and eventually his friendship, too.
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Post by lucrece on Dec 11, 2008 19:08:50 GMT -5
I agree that it's an excellent programme on its own, thus why I keep watching it. What I don't get is the suggestion that it suddenly turns into a "Gay Show" with capital "G". There are currently many programs like that, particularly scifi channels with the whole superhero-sidekick dynamic that seem homoerotic and portray the same concept of hiding, yet they're not labeled bastions of gay sensibility.
I also do not see how standing up to someone denotes the presence of self-esteem. This is where the insecure alpha cheerleader examples come to mind. Merlin is often fishing for compliments from Arthur, and you can see how he lights up at every sign of approval, and the complete emotional reversal. An intense drive to please-- even at your own expense-- can be an indicator of low self-esteem. It wouldn't seem rare, either, as Merlin is living by himself, relatively unknown and looked down upon due to lacking royal status in addition to the anxiety caused by a seemingly magic-hating society.
Either way, I like Merlin because Colin Morgan brings me back memories of his appearance in the Catherine Tate show, with the Irish accent and the indignant face at the chocolate penis his mother gave him for Christmas.
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Post by matan4il on Dec 11, 2008 23:22:31 GMT -5
Right, I'm in a hurry to get to the doctor's so I'll catch up with this thread later (maybe when I'm in Netanya), but I wanted to hug Darcolover55. So sorry to hear that! *snuggles you up* And thank you, hon. Also, Merlin gayness talk later, but I do believe that while it will always be subtext, the producers have somewhat acknowledged this interpretation and OK'ed it in fanfiction, which is nice (though I doubt anyone was sitting around waiting for their OK). And Buffy ruled! Loved Giles to pieces and was addicted to the show right up until I had to join the army...
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Post by lucrece on Dec 12, 2008 0:09:46 GMT -5
Yes, when Buffy ended, my life lost all meaning for quite a while, just the same as when Absolutely Fabulous ended.
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Post by ivaniv on Dec 12, 2008 1:59:46 GMT -5
Maybe it's not a low self esteem, maybe he's just a nice person. I do not like this implication, he's nice, there must be something wrong with him.
Oh, and it was never a Gay show for me, it's just fun to reinterpret it and see to what degree it fits.
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Post by lucrece on Dec 12, 2008 2:10:11 GMT -5
I would say it's also not a good implication to make that having a low self-esteem is a lethal character flaw. Low self-esteem/insecurity in teenagers is not seen as "something is wrong with him" most of the time, just as part of a developmental process. You see it as "being nice"; I see it as naive docility when he lets Arthur dote on the disproportion of power distribution in their relationship. I also didn't address the latter point to you, even if you insist to take it personally .
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Post by ivaniv on Dec 12, 2008 7:13:01 GMT -5
Colin Morgan said in the backstage video that Arthur bullies him on set/off set ;D Merlin is a servant and Arthur likes to pull rank on him, but I don't think he was ever abusive or mean to him like he was with his servant from the first episode. Merlin can't really complain that Arthur asks him to do things, it's his job. About the G, I do not take it personally, I just thought I would make clear how I see it
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Post by lucrece on Dec 12, 2008 12:48:19 GMT -5
I wish he'd say that Arthur bullies him in very special way~
It's not that Arthur asks him to do things; it's that he gloats about it. Arthur's a cocky bastard; a hot cocky bastard, but still a cocky bastard.
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Post by ivaniv on Dec 12, 2008 14:49:07 GMT -5
He thinks he's funny, like when he made Merlin wear the "official ceremonial robes of servants of Camelot" because he knew Merlin would hate it and made him come to the banquet because he did not want to be bored alone ;D But he's reasonable when it really matters.
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Post by ivaniv on Dec 15, 2008 13:23:28 GMT -5
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Post by amber80 on Dec 15, 2008 16:05:08 GMT -5
Yay about that! I just started watching it (am now at episode 3) and I would hate it if I was watching something without a real end.
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Post by lucrece on Dec 15, 2008 17:46:06 GMT -5
For the love of god, CAN SOMEONE PROVIDE A LINK TO EPISODE 13? I've tried and tried in vain to find it; I'm not British.
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Post by amber80 on Dec 15, 2008 18:23:04 GMT -5
Actually... That is the only one I could find on YT next to the first episode. You can find the first part here: uk.youtube.com/watch?v=0jSV1eVSFOw You can find the other parts on the same channel. Pffft... It's really hard to find all the episodes. Until now I've found episode 1, 2 and 8 -13 in good quality and the rest I can watch, but don't ask me how long it takes for the streaming to load.... And it's really poor quality. But hey, it's better than nothing. ;D And to think I could have actually watched it on tv. Too bad you can't watch the BBC player when you're not in the UK.
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Post by lucrece on Dec 15, 2008 21:00:57 GMT -5
Actually... That is the only one I could find on YT next to the first episode. You can find the first part here: uk.youtube.com/watch?v=0jSV1eVSFOw You can find the other parts on the same channel. Pffft... It's really hard to find all the episodes. Until now I've found episode 1, 2 and 8 -13 in good quality and the rest I can watch, but don't ask me how long it takes for the streaming to load.... And it's really poor quality. But hey, it's better than nothing. ;D And to think I could have actually watched it on tv. Too bad you can't watch the BBC player when you're not in the UK. It's OK; I found a good site: [site redacted] I hope Nimue is not really dead. I really liked her ;(. She was soooo pretty. please see forum rules about video links and copyrights. thanks, Bchick
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Post by harmonium on Dec 16, 2008 0:08:56 GMT -5
Unfortunately, I don't have the privilege to watch this show. But I have heard alot of comments on the gay subtext to this show. I think people see too much into certain things I believe. Hahaha. And anyway if the gay subtext is that obvious, then I can't bring myself to watch it as I can't stand ambiguity. Hehehe. And the part about Buffy!! I ADORE BUFFY aka Sarah Michelle Gellar!! I don't usually have liking to straight couples. But Buffy and Angel is the only straight couple I adore!! Star-crossed lovers.. Hahhaa. I've bought the first 5 season box sets and I'm now waiting for season 7's boxset to be despatched. I'm waiting for the price of season 6's boxset to drop! I've even bought the soundtracks to the show!
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Post by amber80 on Dec 17, 2008 15:35:30 GMT -5
Pfffttt..... Just watched the last episode. Been on a Merlin marathon the last three days. ;D Really liked it. (It's not briliant, but it's highly entertaining... ) At first I didn't get the 'gay vibe', but after a few episodes I can see where everyone's coming from. I think Merlin and Arthur have more chemistry with each other than with the ladies.... (Same went for Lancelot in episode 5 ) Really looking forward to the second season!
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Post by overtherainbow on Jan 16, 2009 16:32:21 GMT -5
YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEES!
They are going to air Merlin in Norway! I have only seee some parts of the show, but I can't wait to see more of it!
Here is a GREAT fanvid of Merlin and Arthur:
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Post by matan4il on Jan 18, 2009 23:50:06 GMT -5
*cough* So just out of curiosity I wanted to ask, if I were to accidentally write a Merlin fic or three, would there be a possibility to share it with friends here or should I simply post a link to another site?
Also, I think that the 2 best Merlin fanvids I've seen have only been posted to Imeem, not YouTube. Also the 2nd, third best Merlin fanvid can be found on my 'favorites' list on my YouTube account (and I only have one Merlin fanvid favorited, so it should be easily recognizable).
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Post by amber80 on Jan 19, 2009 13:41:36 GMT -5
I wouldn't mind to read some.... ;D I read some last week on LJ and I really liked it. But you can post a link to another site as well; then I'll just click the link. ;D You're on Imeem! You're the first one here I hear of that actually knows it. I love that site... Do you have a link to that Imeem Merlin vid?
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