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Post by darcolover55 on Dec 5, 2008 17:14:52 GMT -5
I'm clearly going to have to wait until clip 12 because either Ury is purposely misleading Harel to make him think Amir is STILL dating girls or Ury misunderstood the fact that Amir has dated girls in the past as some kind of indication of him wanting to do so now.
Just because Amir didn't projectile vomit about having slept with women, doesn't mean he still wants to. And even if he does want to (or is bisexual) it doesn't mean he'll disrespect Harel.
I don't like all of the innuendo. Ii feels like every other episode is about making the viewers and/or Harel not trust Amir's intentions or feelings or word and they've barely gotten to be together as new cohabitating boys in love.
I want to see them wake up together happy and sleepy and somebody bringing somebody something to drink or eat in bed before the bad stuff begins.
Why, why, why all the suspicions? Is it because folks don't trust men who don't come out swinging a Rainbow flag gay by age 18?
Does Harel (who has enough insecurities and doubts all by himself) need his father (who's approval he desperately wants even though he won't admit it) spewing garbage about Amir and whispering doubts into his ear.
Okay. I'm stopping. UGH! I just need Noah and Luke or Deniz and Roman to get back together or Olli to come home or Fer and Carlos to actually get to be boyfriends.
Something. Anything. So that I can stop seeing conspiracies and gloom and doom and destruction for our lovely gay couples at every turn.
GREAT BIG HONKING SIGH!!! (plus, Mantan4il, you are clearly contagious because I am now sicker than that family dog!)
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Post by matan4il on Dec 5, 2008 18:01:49 GMT -5
FLIPPA! Happy, GAY belated birthday! Hope we get to celebrate many more with you here! I agree with your philosophy on age completely. Like I said, I think I'm rather old in spirit while my Grandma is the youngest, hippest lil' thang you ever did meet... *LOL* That pic of Offer is just a little brilliant. XD My heart goes out to your brother. And I know the type of man you're talking about when you talk about your father! I do hope they find some way to understand each other... Sonnenschein, yep. I was just thinking there's a rule about bad things happening in three's, right? So sick is one, accident is two and I'm really hoping right about now that the universe doesn't remember how to count... But it's okay, took pain killers, leg hurts a lot less and I'm more mobile today. Must have been that sommer licht you've sent me! Thank you... Iclickmyheels, I feel terrible that it took me so long to upload clip 11. Sorry! Lucrece, Flippa, Aussie54 and everyone, the dog IS old and sick, it's why Harel's mother wants Ury to put him out of his misery. Lucrece, where do you come from? And what can I say, I admire you for it. But some people don't feel like they have options or like they can stand up and say anything when they haven't at least tried out what society expects them to be. And I don't think Amir is shifty. I think he wants Ury's approval, just like any good boyfriend. He just gets that with Ury, that could mean letting him think Amir is a bit more of a Don Juan than he actually is (he does use the past tense when speaking about the girlfriends he had). Neand48, that's exactly how I saw it too. My father even went backwards for a little while there. First he accepted me, then he was surprised to discover there were some guys interested in going out with me and he didn't understand why I said no to them. Apparently, he was under the impression that I'm gay because... Coming out is slow and not always even (excuse me) straight-forward. Aussie54, Bless you! And everything you said about the show is part of why I love it so much as well. Gaysoapfan, my pleasure! I'm so glad you're enjoying all the aspects of this show! Darcolover55, I'm with you in the sense that I don't want gloomy stuff. And maybe it's just me, but that's why I saw most of all how all three men in this clip want a good connection with the others. I loved it. It can't be me! Those would be some super germs, considering how the kids at the kindergarden I work with are all 100% healthy (damn, I could have used a few less kids to take care of these past two weeks! ... just kidding ). Hope you feel much better and very soon!
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Post by lucrece on Dec 5, 2008 22:37:35 GMT -5
Venezuela. You know it's bad when a communist regime has a leader that cancels Cindy Lauper's concert because she's a gay icon (I detest communism due to the cultural heritage of my father-- a Cuban-- but it is a system that often puts women and homosexuals in a better place socially).
And, yeah, I notice that Amir may just be craving approval, since his request for a chair. Too bad for him Ury rewards him with future relationship hurdles ;p. I still see Amir as rather shifty. Locking Harel in a bathroom, cheating, leading on Ury's father; he just exudes escapism.
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Post by harmonium on Dec 6, 2008 1:43:20 GMT -5
Hello everyone, it's been a long time!! Hehehe. Glad that more and more people are enjoying this storyline as much as I do! I think this got to be the best gay storyline I have ever seen. Everything is so close to life. Issues that are totally what normal homosexuals are going through. I have to give it to the writers. Giving us good scenes time to time. matan4il: Thanks alot for the clip!! This got to be the longest clip so far that we've seen regarding Harel/Amir. Hope you are doing well and recovering from your cold. I've just recovered days ago from my cold and fever too. And although this episode technically isn't about Harel and Amir, but I do enjoy it alot! I really like the conversation Harel had with Ury. The interaction between a gay son and his not-so-accepting Dad is just fantastic. It's well-acted and I really enjoyed the part when Harel asked his dad if he would have prefered Harel not to be borne if he knew Harel is gonna be gay when he grows up. I believe every gay people would have this thought flashed across their mind before. Wondering if their parents would have wished things differently for their children. I can totally understand Harel's situation. He has stood by his beliefs and he wishes that he could have the support of his parents, but it's frustrating that not only that his dad is not that accepting but yet has to get the crap about turning "straight". Social conformity much? And also the part Ury calling his son a chick, oh gosh. How convenient is that? Stereotyping. But luckily the last scene saves it all. I know that Ury has good intentions, but sometimes, you just have to let go of your children and let them do what they feel is right. Giving inappropriate suggestions would drive your children even further from you. And yes, I don't understand why Ury has to 'wreck' things between Harel and Amir by saying things that weren't true (although Amir is keeping his options *coughs* legs *coughs* open by having a trick). Misinterpretations is very damaging!! I mean Amir said that he USED to have girlfriends. That doesn't mean he is going to date a female in the future. And why must people mention that they used to sleep with girls before? That's that glorify someone? Gay means gay, straight means straight, bi means bi. I just can't stand it when gays have to mention that they used to date women. So what? You are still gay, that doesn't change a fact or anything. That's why I like how defensive Harel gets when his father is implicitly suggesting him to date women. And also, I also kinda freaked out to know that they wanted to kill the dog. Initially, I thought they were killing it because they didn't want it (but I thought it doesn't make sense, it's not ethical and I believe it's not a good message to send across if it turned out to be true) and luckily from matan4il's post in the youtube comments, I realize the dog is ill. And it touches me when the dog refused to take the pills. *Sad...* And I totally adore how Harel hugged the dog when he couldn't dig the hole (of course, you couldn't do it, my dearie, you are not a murderer. ). But I would have prefered my pet to die naturally unless it's wailing in pain. And of course, I will be waiting for the next clip. I really hope we can have a clip with Harel and Amir doing a proper conversation about things between them. I still think that when you are in a relationship, things have to be laid out if not, I don't think how a relationship can survive if your other half have no clue what you are thinking about.
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Post by iclickmyheels on Dec 6, 2008 2:35:59 GMT -5
Iclickmyheels, I feel terrible that it took me so long to upload clip 11. Sorry! oh my gosh, don't apologize! i wasn't trying to make you feel guilty! this was a very long clip, no wonder it took so long! i was more worried about you being all sick more than anything. i'm glad to see that you're back and hopefully feeling better! this clip though: last week was a cute awww. this week is a sad awww. harel and his dad are both sitting in the same car, but they're just so ...far apart. and it obviously hurts them both very much, but they just can't understand each other yet. hopefully with time, they will be able to bridge that gap. poor harel. poor ury. POOR PUPPY DOG! i'm more of a harel fan, but i'm definately not giving up on amir yet. i think he has his heart in the right place...hopefully we get some more of them alone next week.
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Post by matan4il on Dec 6, 2008 7:04:23 GMT -5
Lucrece, I need to introduce you to an Israeli gay-adopted anthem called Venezuela. And I'm so sorry to hear about the regime's treatment of gays there. Although I'm surprised to hear what you said about communism (my impression from what I know about communist Cuba and about communist Romania, the country where my family is from, is that communism was especially tough on anyone who was different and thus might not comply with the idea that society's needs come first). What I love the most is when people can agree to disagree. I'm gonna give Amir the benefit of the doubt until he proves doesn't deserve it. But I also understand how come you see him differently... Harmonium, so good to see you! And yay, I'm so happy to hear you love the storyline so much. You're very welcome for the clip! Ys, it is by far the longest we've had and it's the most demanding one I've done so far because I had to do the sync and the hard-coding twice. Bah. And only then it turned out the fault lay with YouTube and not with the sync/hard-coding process. Uh, but all's well that ends well. Good, recovery is good! Take care of yourself, 'k? It's not a good thing when three members of this forum have a cold at the same time. I've just about nodded through your entire post. I don't think I have anything to add. Only regarding the pet howling with pain - my cat Phoebe had cancer. She didn't howl with pain, she just stopped doing everything - moving about, eating, drinking. She just sat beneath my desk and did nothing. Maybe waited for it to be over. God, it was so painful to see her like that when she was a ball of energy before. (I miss her so much...) Zror is behaving in the same manner, so I can understand why they want to put him out of his misery. Iclickmyheels, thank you. Yes, I am feeling a bit better. Without the minor accident it might have happened sooner, but since yesterday, more or less, it's been less of a struggle to breathe, so yay! And hopefully I'll be 100% back in no time. I know, it was so sad all around, but I absolutely adored how well made it was, that you could feel so sorry for characters in opposing positions at the same time.
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Post by lucrece on Dec 6, 2008 12:33:43 GMT -5
Oh, I still love Amir, just in a head-shaking sort of way. More like "Ay, here he goes again; silly boy, when will he learn?"
Communist governments were the first ones to introduce equality aims for women, and they often didn't enforce officially the oppression/persecution of gays. The thing is, you still live in a society that has been already indoctrinated previously on the issue; and, communist governments always being failed projects, you end up with a nation in misery. Misery leads to animosity, and guess who receives the brunt end of resentment in such times? Similar to how Jews were blamed for Germany's post-WWI problems, minorities are usually blamed in other countries where people are starving to death.
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Post by matan4il on Dec 6, 2008 13:17:31 GMT -5
*chuckles* Well, I guess we'll get to see when he does. I completely agree with you about how in a country that finds itself in a state of misery, the "outsider" is always the aim of hatred. Sometimes, it's even aided by the regime, that knows the public needs to vent its frustrations and better a minority group being the target of all that rage than those who actually hold the power and responsibility for the way things are, i.e. themselves. Like I said, though, I know communist Romania the best and there, it was more than that. The Securitatea (the Romanian version of the KGB) used to arrest gay men, jail them, "cure" them with electroshock "treatment" until they said they no longer felt any same-sex attraction. Then they'd release and spy on them, to make sure they were telling the truth. So people aware of these arrests and "treatments" were also convinced homosexuality is curable. I kid you not.
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Post by viga2430 on Dec 6, 2008 13:25:20 GMT -5
WOW! That was an intense episode and as always well acted! I don't like that Ury is planting seeds of doubt about Amir to Harel either...It is making me wonder if this is going to lead into conflict with the whole internet dating and hooking up with tricks...which I hope he has stopped doing...I am willing to give Amir a chance... I was freaking out about the dog as well thinking that they were getting rid of the dog because they were annoyed with the dog...thank you for clarifying that...and it was so cute to see the dog in the back seat and that Ury does have a heart, he is just conflicted at the moment...Thank you for the subtitles matan4il...I am so glad that you are feeling better
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Post by lucrece on Dec 6, 2008 15:23:31 GMT -5
*chuckles* Well, I guess we'll get to see when he does. I completely agree with you about how in a country that finds itself in a state of misery, the "outsider" is always the aim of hatred. Sometimes, it's even aided by the regime, that knows the public needs to vent its frustrations and better a minority group being the target of all that rage than those who actually hold the power and responsibility for the way things are, i.e. themselves. Like I said, though, I know communist Romania the best and there, it was more than that. The Securitatea (the Romanian version of the KGB) used to arrest gay men, jail them, "cure" them with electroshock "treatment" until they said they no longer felt any same-sex attraction. Then they'd release and spy on them, to make sure they were telling the truth. So people aware of these arrests and "treatments" were also convinced homosexuality is curable. I kid you not. Yes, I can see how it would be different in countries like Romania; it's a vastly different culture. Communism might be a common factor, but even communist countries adapt a form of the ideology in a manner that meshes with the culture in the most effective manner. I'm fairly sure China's communist regimes were different from Cuba and Russia's, for example. The electroshock treatments are not confined to communist countries, though. Britain forced hormone treatments that would often lead to suicide upon homosexuals 9Most notably Alan Turing, the person responsible for the groundbreaking decoding of Enigma messages by Germans, which helped end the war much quicker) even post-WWII, and it wasn't a communist government.
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Post by matan4il on Dec 6, 2008 17:32:15 GMT -5
Lucrece, I'm sure they're very different, like you said. It's just that knowing what I do about it in Romania (and a bit about Cuba), I wouldn't have thought communism did anything for either gays or women anywhere. Interesting that. True. And OMG, Alan Turing! <3 Coming from a family of Mathematicins, I adore the man. But in Romania it was being used long after the mid 50's, when it was proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that the EST doesn't cure what it's supposed to. Viga2430, glad you enjoyed it! And I agree, it shows how conflicted Ury is about all the issues he's dealing with. Love it so much. My pleasure and thank you for the kind words!
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Sonnenschein
Full Member
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Post by Sonnenschein on Dec 7, 2008 16:16:51 GMT -5
YAY youre feeling better Im really glad for it! (the counting thingy - I was thinking that too. I just didnt wanna jinx anything ) and yay another episode thank you!!! Darcylover pretty much said it all. I just want ONE happy gay couple right now. And Amir and Harel just might have been the one. Guess I just have to stick to the fanfics till Olli is back
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Post by matan4il on Dec 7, 2008 16:23:26 GMT -5
*giggles* Great minds think alike, right? ;D Thank you so much! *hugs & * And my pleasure... Oh, maybe I'm living in denial (oh, look! You can see Egypt from my window!) but I do firmly believe (and surely hope) that Amir and Harel will be together and happy. In a sense, they've already been through a lot and I can't believe they're being built up only to be torn apart. At least not by Avner Bernheimer, the writer for this show. Love him so bad!
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Sonnenschein
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Post by Sonnenschein on Dec 7, 2008 16:49:14 GMT -5
i havent given up hope on them!!! you are right the writers woulndt have build them up this way only to say "ah well its over lets move to a different storyline" i just need(ed) happy, you know. With Olli gone, McDean over, dont even let me start on Nuke ... I just wanted nothing to worry about. I can live with anxiety ever now and then... As long as there are different stories as well. At the moment there just arent any
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Post by matan4il on Dec 7, 2008 17:00:24 GMT -5
*nodnodnod* I know that somehow they'll be okay. They just have to be. I want stand for anything else! And I can track down Avner if need be and threaten him! (I did meet him once, Israel is tiny. Seriously) Yeah, I know. I've given up on Nuke a long time ago, I'm sad to say. And I agree, there's not all that much happy going on. *hugs* It'll be okay, we will get happy, though. I mean, for one thing, Olli may be away but we still get an Ollian reference every now and then, and that's nice, right?
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Sonnenschein
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Post by Sonnenschein on Dec 7, 2008 17:09:24 GMT -5
*chuckles* - you would do that wouldnt you? ;D thanx!!! so please dont get too distracted with writing fanfic *flutters eyeslashes at you* we wanna know what happens next!!! ;D *hugs you back* - you are right! those tiny references sadly make my day nowadays (and Christians dimples )
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Post by matan4il on Dec 7, 2008 17:30:38 GMT -5
I soooooo would! Even if it means I have to travel to Tel Aviv (which I'm not that fond of). I'd just have to stop by my old military base before to get Scarface, my M-16. You know. Just to make sure I can emphasise to Avner how much we love the pair. Naaaaah, I'd have to be mad to be talked into that. If I started writing, since I have NO free time whatsoever, it's going to actually be either that or sleep. And I'm far too fond of sleep... And his funny faces!
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Post by lucrece on Dec 7, 2008 17:47:31 GMT -5
Good thing you saw the light and gave up on Nuke. I swaer, even as much as I adore Offer Schechter, and the writing's magnificent, I wouldn't watch Till The Wedding if the acting were as abominable as it is in crappy American Soap Operas.
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Post by matan4il on Dec 7, 2008 18:14:02 GMT -5
Oh, don't get me started on it! Though I will confess to one thing, if it weren't for Nuke, I probably would have known nothing about the magic of sharing gay themed shows over YouTube. So some good they have served.
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Post by flippa on Dec 7, 2008 19:23:16 GMT -5
Oh, don't get me started on it! Though I will confess to one thing, if it weren't for Nuke, I probably would have known nothing about the magic of sharing gay themed shows over YouTube. So some good they have served. This kind of made me chuckle (in a sad way)- how many people do you think have either put up clips from their home country as a response to how badly ATWT have handled Nuke and how many people have turned to find other gay-themed stories out of desperation/ annoyance at Nuke??? As for whether Harel and Amir stay the course? I reckon there's bumpy times ahead, of course- it's a drama after all-, but I think they have the potential to be happy at the end. Just so I'm sure I understood correctly- this is a drama series with a finite end, isn't it??? And hope you're totally recovered now Matan4il!!
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Post by matan4il on Dec 7, 2008 19:30:57 GMT -5
how many people do you think have either put up clips from their home country as a response to how badly ATWT have handled Nuke and how many people have turned to find other gay-themed stories out of desperation/ annoyance at Nuke??? Lots, I'm sure! Though in the greater scheme of things, I guess that's not a bad thing. *nods* I agree with you perfectly. I mean, everyone gets a few bumps down the road in this drama (you don't even wanna know what other couples are going through), but I have faith in Harel and Amir. They have more going for them than any other couple on this show. And yes, this will have a finite end, though right now it's not in sight... Meaning, they are currently filming the next batch of episodes. Practically, which is good enough for me! *hugs*
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Post by harmonium on Dec 8, 2008 2:49:28 GMT -5
I think the writers of "ATWT" more or less are aware that there are better gay storylines around and they are trying to improve the storyline. And of course, this is a soap opera, they have to make things drastic. So that's why I think soap operas' stories are not that realistic. And I must say the "Nuke" storyline started out promising (I was hooked initially), but slowly when they introduced Ameera, I gave up the show already. It's way too nonsensical. And also their acting is pretty cringe-worthy. Hehehe.
And for "VL-Ollian", I also gave up after there were no longer the main focus, its like they stayed in the background for too long and have to deal with all those Judith's shit. Even the gorgeous Constantin can't make me glue to the storyline, so I think I gave up watching the show right after Christian got into being a boxer.
And as for "Hollyoaks" which fumes me the most. I couldn't make myself watch it when Kieron and JP's relationship is treated like shit. I can't stand draggy scenes. Although if I'm not wrong towards the end, Kieron and JP share some good moments, but by then I've already gave up the show, so I don't see the point in backtracking the back scenes.
And primarily for me, I'm now focusing on "Til the Wedding" (coz I love Israeli guys... Hehhee. *Guilty*) and also the storyline is pretty real. And also "Brothers And Sisters" (I adore Scotty, he's my ideal boyfriend!! Hehehe..). And also I think maybe because these 2 are not soaps, the screentime is limited for the gay characters and that's why more or less they are treated as individual characters rather than playing supporting roles to the main ones.
Maybe the new "Clara Sheller" will get me hooked, the first 2 episodes look promising. And also I'm waiting for the return of "Les Bleus", Kevin (Nicholas Gob) is such a HUNK and I really enjoyed the first season's storyline (although Yann is such a jerk!!!). I love it when those manly guys get all vulnerable, makes me want to adore them even more!
And back on track, yay to the new batch of episodes. I wonder how long this show will be shown.
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Post by matan4il on Dec 8, 2008 4:32:47 GMT -5
but slowly when they introduced Ameera, I gave up the show already. It's way too nonsensical. And also their acting is pretty cringe-worthy. Hehehe.My story with Nuke as well. Thought they did have a few good scene at the beginning (2 or 3), it's not enough to make me keep watching through what's essentially a torture of a storyline with horrid writing and let's not talk about the acting. And from what I hear about what they're up to now, if this is what the ATWT writers can come up with when they're trying to better Nuke's storyline, then I'm glad I gave up. I'm nto complaining about your focus on those shows at all. I think the same can be said for me (watching B&S, waiting for Les Bleus), though I also know I'll be back to Ollian the sec Olli is back as well. They had enough good, couply scenes to earn my loyalty. I have no idea how long 'Til the Wedding will be shown. I'll update whenever I have news...
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Post by flippa on Dec 8, 2008 16:09:33 GMT -5
Hey Matan4il- hope you're well today OK, I'm keeping my fingers crossed for the happy ending that is always so elusive... which brings me to Hollyoaks and hi Harmonium! I'm with you on both HO and ATWT- introduction of rubbish storylines in both (Keiron- imo was a total mistake although I acknowledge many people loved him- and Ameera- purlease) put me off both. Well, to be honest, I stopped watching HO after Craig went the first time- because I was so annoyed that all that trauma and fighting with emotions, and deception and betrayal of loved ones was for nothing- It just annoyed the pants off me! Scotty- really??!!! Well, each to their own, I think he'd annoy the hell out of me as a partner, probably because he's too nice if that makes sense? I prefer partners who challenge me more- for the same reason I've never been an "Olli" person- he's just too "sweet"! And I have to say my heart (apart from the growing section that has Harel and Amir in it) still has Ollian in there, because I understand that in a daily soap you can't have the characters front and centre all the time- and I'd rather see them supporting Judith or Gregor or Consti, than not being there at all. In fact sometimes I prefer it as it's much more "normalising" to see the cute everyday life stuff But I also totally agree with what you say about the difference between dramas and soaps- they are written and lead under pretty different conventions and I guess the main thing is that dramas generally tend to be a lot more true to life, rather than soaps, which, by the very nature of having to be churned out on a daily basis and the competition they are up against in their respective timeslots-, tend to have a lot more "heightened" or "amped up" emotions that aren't as true in reality...
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Post by matan4il on Dec 9, 2008 19:14:24 GMT -5
Flippa, thank you so much. I am better, seems like I'm over the cold. However, I've been to the doctor today and because of that (minor) accident I was in, I had to get an anti-tetanus shot. That means my arm isn't all that great right about now and it'll take me longer to get the next clip up. I was thinking I could try and do an additional clip as a compensation in the meanwhile, as it would be much shorter (and thus require less effort). So sorry to you guys, you've been great and so supportive, I hope you know how much I appreciate that!
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