momnoc
Full Member
"Don't cry because it's over. Smile because it happened." Dr. Seuss
Posts: 1,613
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Post by momnoc on Dec 9, 2008 21:11:37 GMT -5
Gee matan4il I don't check in for a few days and YOU HAVE AN ACCIDENT! Please take care of yourself......we can wait for the clips.......it might be hard......but we CAN do it! I have to admit that last epi was hard to watch, but in the end both dog and dad came thru!
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Post by gaysoapfan on Dec 9, 2008 21:26:39 GMT -5
Get well soon, matal4il!
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Sonnenschein
Full Member
Please beige spoilers when outside appropriate threads. Thanks!
Posts: 1,313
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Post by Sonnenschein on Dec 10, 2008 6:50:51 GMT -5
This turns into a never ending story ... lets just say that the shot was the "missing" 3rd part so now there is only sun ahead of you ;D The are filming right now?! What a relief I did like the dog story! Everyone back in the car ... alive *whew*
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Post by matan4il on Dec 10, 2008 14:48:51 GMT -5
Momnoc, see what happens when you're not around? It was a minor one, honest. I just went in to have it checked because my leg is still hurting (though I am mobile) and then my doctor wanted to be on the safe side (I got my last anti-tetanus shot when I was recruited into the army, which was less than ten years ago, but more than five years ago, so she could have called it either way). And thank you. Big time. *hugs* Gaysoapfan, thank you so much! *hugs* Sonnenschein, I know, right? That's exactly what I was thinking. And I have been feeling like that's it, I just need to get past the shot's side effects and then it's smooth sailing. Makes me all chipper, actually. I hope we're right. The additional clip should be up either late Thursday night (Israel's time, which is GMT+2) or early Sunday morning. G'night everyone!
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Post by darcolover55 on Dec 15, 2008 14:00:05 GMT -5
They Are Just SOOO PRETTY!! They fit so well together physically. Visually it just works. Both actors have a way of communicating so much with their bodies. So, here I sit, knitting and calmly waiting for the subs because then I'll have an excuse to watch the clip twice. La La. ;D Thanks lady as always.
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Post by aussie54 on Dec 15, 2008 14:22:15 GMT -5
You are so right, Darcolover! They are very pretty. I especially like the scene where Amir takes his shirt off, and what happens next. ;D Thank you, Matan4il. I, too, am very much looking forward to seeing the English sub-titles, to find out what they're discussing so earnestly with Ziona.
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Post by matan4il on Dec 15, 2008 14:45:02 GMT -5
*rolls eyes at self* It'll be a short while, but the subtitles should be up soon. Darcolover55, they sooooooo are. I love them together so much. Also, you're knitting? *is curious and can't knit to save anyone's life* My pleasure. Aussie54, nice icon. ;D My pleasure. I hope you enjoy the clip too. And Ziona! *hugs*
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Post by darcolover55 on Dec 15, 2008 15:29:36 GMT -5
Amir Goes Shopping Harel Breaks It All Down Ziona Gets All "Radical Lesbo Sex Anarchist" On The Boys
Til The Wedding - Part 12 [/size]
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Post by darcolover55 on Dec 15, 2008 15:32:53 GMT -5
HOORAY FOR MODERN ROMANCE.
Don't get me wrong, I am all for exclusivity. It's lovely and wonderful.
But tell or don't tell, do others or don't do others, you gotta have an understood situation of monogamy before you can have cheating.
These are 21st century boys in a 21st relationship. HOLLA!
A couple HAS to talk about being exclusive (and how they want to be exclusive). Gay/straight/lesbian/bi, you CAN NOT just assume anything.
Will everyone who kept going on and on about Amir being a dog and a cheater and untrustworthy and how HURT Harel would be if he knew Amir slept with webtrick Please Take It Back!
Amir did his thing and it had nothing to do with his feelings for Harel
You can be in a beautiful, loving, secure, committed couple whether you decide to be exclusive or not. But you MUST make the decision, overtly and be honest.
Until you have the THE TALK, the discussion about what kind of relationship you want to have, it's all just blowing in the wind and no holds barred and you can't be telling each other what to do with each other's own bodies.
Harel just put it out plainly, sweetly, smartly. He wants them both to be happy, honest and safe.
AMIR's response was PERFECT!
Done, and Done! LOVE IT!
Could I adore Amir and Harel (and Ziona) and the writers of Til The Wedding any more if I tried?
Doubtful
P.S. I am SOOOO Using "Getting some Chummus" for my time with the ladies from now on. LOVE IT!
Mantan4il Is A Goddess!
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Post by matan4il on Dec 15, 2008 16:02:47 GMT -5
These are 21st century boys in a 21st relationship. HOLLA! A couple HAS to talk about being exclusive (and how they want to be exclusive). Gay/straight/lesbian/bi, you CAN NOT just assume anything. [...] Harel just put it out plainly, sweetly, smartly. He's not the possessive type and he wants them both to be safe. AMIR's response was PERFECT! [...] Could I adore Amir and Harel (and Ziona) and the writers of Til The Wedding any more if I tried? [...] P.S. I am SOOOO Using "Getting some Chummus" for my time with the ladies from now on. LOVE IT! Mantan4il Is A Goddess! I agree and I think this holds true far beyond the realm of this show. I loved Harel's attitude about it and Amir's response. It's sweet, but in a realistic sort of a context that keeps it from being overly fluffy. I adore them too. And ARGH, maybe I shouldn't say anything, but I'm trying to contact Avner Bernheimer for all of you who may have questions they'd like him to address. I don't know if my efforts will be fruitful or not, but I am trying. *snorts* The problem is that Israelis have chumus ALL the freaking time, so people might mistakenly think we're a sex-crazed nation! :-o Not that there's anything wrong with that... :-P *MATAN BLUSHES PROFUSELY, MUMBLES INCOHERENTLY AND GOES HIDE SOMEWHERE* XD *but squishes you first*
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Post by darcolover55 on Dec 15, 2008 16:07:41 GMT -5
Awww sugar, don't blush. Israelis are so sexy, I don't think we'd blame y'all if you were sex-crazed. I can think of a worse reputation for a nation.
Besides, no one will ever be as sex positive as the French. We all pale in comparison. Sigh...
What's funny is that there is a long-running joke in American lesbo communities about having potlucks where it winds up that everyone has brought "chummus" (or Baba Ganoush or Tabouli)
Unfortunately, in NYC loads of folks all over the city eat tons of chummus, chummus, chumus ALL THE TIME.
I guess I'd fit right in over in Tel Aviv (in more ways than one....
Oh, and finally it's confirmed that Ziona is a lesbo. Yay for that.
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Post by matan4il on Dec 15, 2008 16:25:56 GMT -5
*is trying not to* :-) Oh, and I definitely agree with you about that. Also, if you like men or women in uniform, Israel is basically heaven. I've read the Marquis de Sade's writing and that was enough for me. The French and sex should not be mentioned in the same sentence, unless we're talking about Les Bleus. :-P I had no idea. I guess I'd fit in well in NYC. I really can't stomach chumus jokes since I've seen Don't Mess with the Zohan, though. Yay for this being corrected by 'Til the Wedding! And we would love to have you here! Pshhh, like we weren't sure of that before.
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Post by lucrece on Dec 15, 2008 16:43:45 GMT -5
OMG, chummus will join "kugelschreiber" in my list of favorite words!!!!~
And welcome back, matan4il; I had feared you had disintegrated into the fabric of time spontaneously. How glad I am to find myself incorrect <3.
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Sonnenschein
Full Member
Please beige spoilers when outside appropriate threads. Thanks!
Posts: 1,313
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Post by Sonnenschein on Dec 15, 2008 18:16:01 GMT -5
awwww what a great episode!!! thanks for uploading and for the subtitles it can go on like that ;D and yeah i will remember chummus too - interesting word... *MATAN BLUSHES PROFUSELY, MUMBLES INCOHERENTLY AND GOES HIDE SOMEWHERE* XD *but squishes you first* Don't its well deserved! Luv ya!
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seven14
New Member
James Marsters-My Spike!
Posts: 177
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Post by seven14 on Dec 15, 2008 18:43:28 GMT -5
Thank you so much Matan4il[/color] I have enjoyed Episode 11...eventhough I was scared and sad the entire time wondering what was to become of that beautiful dog! and I'm so glad I checked in as you have Episode 12 up for me to absolutely fall in love with. I've watched it twice...I can't imagine what I am hoping to see Now here is writing I can respect! I love plain, honest, straightforward talk! As usual I am proud of Harel for always keeping it real!! Firstly, Please Amir!!...I know that is too harsh...afterall I have no clue if you have been "cautious" or not...I don't think you are stupid, but I don't readily trust your show of non-chalance in this discussion about condoms and personal care in past relationships. We can't all be as honest as Harel, I know, but he opened a door and ALL you had to do was walk through it.....Oh well, this type of relationship is new to you and being with someone like Harel is new to you..so I will cut you some slack...seriously though..it's best to just say the truth now,over being caught in a lie later..... BUT on a superficial level, I can applaud your way of ending the discussion Secondly, Amir, You do need to be spanked...and not in a good way! Amir is so sexy and flirty in this episode...I hope they run to get tested so he can spank-among other things- Harel instead! Thanks again Matan4il for brightening my day...I can't wait for Epi 13!! Ciao!
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Post by aussie54 on Dec 15, 2008 19:14:16 GMT -5
Thanks for the sub-titles, Matan4il. I have no idea what chummus is, so I can't really comment about that. One thing I loved especially with this clip, are the smiles Harel gives when Amir disappears from view. Those smiles look very spontaneous and natural, almost as if Niv is ab-libbing down there. ;D Is that wishful thinking of my part?
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Post by flippa on Dec 15, 2008 20:23:58 GMT -5
Thanks Matan4il!!! Loved the episode but too tired to post coherently now...
but THANK YOU!!
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Post by dorothy on Dec 15, 2008 22:40:29 GMT -5
Thanks, Matan4il! Good to see the boys are talking about things and are happy together. Hoping for more good stuff to come!
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Post by harmonium on Dec 15, 2008 23:32:06 GMT -5
Matan4il Hello Dearie!! How are you doing now? Coping well? Hope you have fully recovered from your illness and of course ur minor accident. Thanks for posting the new clip!! It's absolutely amazing!! Hello to everyone else. Sorry guys for not being here too often and contribute much!! And back on track, I totally adore this new clip. I like it how the writers try bring in issues for discussion into the show. They are not being too political about it and of course trying to bring both sides of the monogamy vs polygamy argument! I love how they actually show them through the characters. We have Ziona who is a pro-polygamy (for the reasons that I don't really comprehend, it's too advanced for me), Harel who is pro-monogamy (oh my god, he's getting closer to be my ideal boyfriend. He and Scotty are too sweet for words!!) and Amir who is in-the-middle and is ready to try out more advantageous stuff. And I honestly don't get to see Ziona's point of view. I don't think homosexuals should break the convention or something just because we are different from the heterosexuals. I mean for so long, all we want is getting the equal rights and having what our hetero-counterparts are capable of getting. I don't see we have to be different just because we are different sexually. And I don't think couples should think so far ahead as we never know what's gonna lies right in front of us. Why even think 5 years down the road that whether sex is gonna be unexciting and mundane between the same partner? We can't predict the future anyway. So may as well enjoy while it lasts, isn't it? And who knows things may get better in the future? There is always something more to sex when someone connects with another on a whole new level. Well, that's just me. And I've got to give it all to Harel. He has been so honest about everything. I think he has more or less spelt it out to Amir that he wants to be in a monogamous relationship. So it's up to Amir whether he wants to stick to it. And also, I think it's nice that Harel is being 'safe' (a great message to all people, maybe he should be the poster boy for the "Safe Sex" message). And I have to agree with what Harel said that it's not entirely about trust when it's comes to unprotected sex, accidents do happen. So it's always good be on the safe side. And also I've got to say he's really forgiving, I mean from what I deduced, I believe he is OK with Amir having sex with other guys if he's not in a clear state of mind. So I believe more or less, he's OK with Amir having sex with other guys as long as he's not cheating. (So I'm wondering if Harel is gonna forgive Amir if he found out that he did a trick). And I totally adore how Amir and Harel behaved when they are together. So cute and lovey-dovey. And oh god, a scene of oral sex in national TV. That's just WOW!! Hahaha. And I have got to say the actress playing Ziona is awesome. And her signatory "Peace" shout-out is truly hilarious!! Can't wait for the new clip. This storyline is truly amazing!! ATWT's writers, eat your hearts out!!
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Post by lucrece on Dec 16, 2008 0:57:46 GMT -5
I love Ziona. She scares me in the "I'm the angry lesbian that's going to put your head in my vagina and crush it like a nut-cracker while reading excerpts from the Vagina Monologues and Gloria Steinem". I do love how earnest she is, how passionately her points are driven; she really believes she's doing some good, and that's what makes her adorable. I was put off by the "straight disease" comment, though; it came off as incredibly ironic for a person complaining about oppression and prejudice.
I do see her point in polyamory (polygamy is pertaining to marriage, as is monogamy; people tend to confuse these terms). What can be argued is that human nature drives you toward many things, like playing with drugs, resorting to violence, gambling, quests for dominance. And yet, we don't cater to these urges. So why should sex be any different? Just because it's in our nature to be promiscuous doesn't mean it is the correct thing to do (naturalistic fallacy).
Personally? It should be up to the people involved. However, calling this "open relationship" and other bullshit euphemism annoys me. What you have is a fuck buddy. Don't beat around the bush.
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Post by harmonium on Dec 16, 2008 1:35:52 GMT -5
To lucrece: Polyamory differs from polygamy, although the two are occasionally still used interchangeably because "polygamy" was the word used for all non-monogamy before "polyamory" was coined in the early 1990s. Polygamy more accurately refers to specific structures of recognized relationships, while polyamory is a personal outlook grounded in such concepts as choice, trust, equality of free will, and the idea of compersion, and newer cultural traditions distinct from the religious and cultural traditions of polygamy. Hehehe. Taken from wikipedia. So technically using "polygamy" is not incorrect.
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Post by darcolover55 on Dec 16, 2008 2:01:21 GMT -5
However, calling this "open relationship" and other bullshit euphemism annoys me. What you have is a fuck buddy. Don't beat around the bush.
Well I know a lot of lesbian couples who have been in very happy long-term committed relationships (20 years or more) who have arrangements where one of them might occasionally have sex with someone else they've met (out of town or whatever). Safe sex of course as a rule and with the full permission of their partner. I would definitely not call them "fuck buddies" Though there is nothing wrong with having a fuck buddies as long as it's all out in the open and consentual I'm not advocating for non-monogamy or the breaking down of traditional relationships but almost every relationship I know of (straight, gay, lesbian) that has lasted a long time and where the couple is committed but not legally married they have had to have the discussion about exclusivity at least once or twice. It seems to me with this storyline that folks are projecting their own fears about cheating lovers (which I know is horrible) and lack of honesty onto this couple. One of Ziona's points is that folks get bored (though clearly Amir and Harel have only been dating for a short while so I don't think she's saying they are there yet) Of course that is no excuse for cheating but one of them may cheat in the future. They are only human. It happens. It doesn't have to be the end of the world or the end of the relationship. IT depends upon the circumstances. Sometimes sex is just sex. But I don't think we have to be all doom and gloom about it yet. I'm recalling a episode of Queer As Folks in the second season. Justin gets jealous because Brian (who has never promised to be exclusive) is still seeing other men even though they are living together. All the viewers' comments were like "Brian's a whore", "Brian can't be trusted" "Brian can never be faithful" "Brian doesn't know what a relationship is" But Brian never lied or falsely represented himself. Justin leaves Brian who then is so miserable without Justin that he goes to Justin to ask him to come home. Justin responds but saying he'll come home if Brian agrees to follow some rules. Justin sets up this list of rules for he and Brian to follow so that he could feel more secure in their relationship with Brian. IT'S THIS INCREDIBLE MOMENT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE DANCE FLOOR. FABULOUS! Anyway, Brian (who has never had a "boyfriend" and never been exclusive) agrees to follow the rules because he really cares about Justin and wants Justin to come home. He follows every one of the rules and never once cheats or lies or goes back on his word. Justin almost immediately breaks every single rule and not only cheated but he also lied about it. I adored Justin and Brian but I think part of the point of that storyline was not that monogamy or non-monogamy was the way to go. Neither one is a sure fire guarantee to happiness. You have to talk about your feelings and expectations from a lover (as Harel and Amir are now doing) and you can't expect monogamy alone to secure a commitment in a relationship. A relationship has to have room for people to be individuals. A relationship has to have room for folks to grow and change and make mistakes and learn from them. You have to be willing to renegotiate too if you're really in it for the long haul. Sometimes you have to alter your expectations according to who you are with and not just have this set of arbitrary rules about "relationships" . I don't think you should ever compromise your own beliefs but if you don't trust your lover and you aren't honest with each other, no amount of control over their actions is going to protect you or them from getting hurt.
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Post by harmonium on Dec 16, 2008 2:18:36 GMT -5
You have to talk about your feelings and expectations from a lover (as Harel and Amir are now doing) and you can't expect monogamy alone to secure a commitment in a relationship. A relationship has to have room for people to be individuals. A relationship has to have room for folks to grow and change and make mistakes and learn from them. You have to be willing to renegotiate too if you're really in it for the long haul. Sometimes you have to alter your expectations according to who you are with and not just have this set of arbitrary rules about "relationships" . I don't think you should ever compromise your own beliefs but if you don't trust your lover and you aren't honest with each other, no amount of control over their actions is going to protect you or them from getting hurt. Agreed! Definitely rules have to be set. But ultimately, who would want their lover to sleep with others? As much as to sustain or maintain a relationship, I believe all in all, no one would like to see their other half having to have sex with another (not in for kinky purposes. Hehehe). To me, unless it's agreed among both partners that they are allowed to sleep with others, otherwise I think it is always assumed that they have to be committed and be mutually exclusive (and especially if your the other half is not into the idea.) And to be honest, I think more or less Amir should have the idea that Harel wants a mutually exclusive relationship. Of course, they didn't outrightly spell out the terms, so technically speaking Amir is not wrong when he slept with the trick. But that doesn't mean what he does is correct. I doubt everyone who gets into a relationship will automatically think that they are in an open relationship.
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Post by matan4il on Dec 16, 2008 5:04:24 GMT -5
I have to say that this entire storyline reminds me of a friend of mine (who looks a lot like Justin's actor, to be honest, Randy Harrison). He's met his boyfriend when he was 16. Since they were so young and believed sex with other people was bound to happen, they agreed to have an open relationship and they are still together (he's 29 now). They're still incredibly loving around each other and they got married in Canada a few years back (when they clearly didn't have to). When we talked about it, the way he put it was that love was more important to them than sex, so they decided in advance not to let the possibility of sex with other people ruin what they had in emotional terms. That was the first time that I really got the whole concept of an open relationship. It's not for me, but at least I get since then why people might choose it. Lucrece, *lol* Kugelschreiber? I don't know what that means yet and I already like the sound of it! XD And nope, no such luck yet. I'm just trying to get back into sync with the world and that's a bit of a challenge. But I'm definitely not leaving you guys. <3 Sonnenschein, thank you, you're too kind! Seven14, good to see you here! You're very welcome and I'm glad you've enjoyed the last eps. I've got ep 9 on Veoh to do first, but then I'm gonna get to ep 13. Aussie54, my pleasure! That was definitely my fave thing about this last clip as well. Oh, and chumus is a Middle Eastern dish, which we all like (though it's far from being the only Middle Eastern food that's popular in Israel). Here's a link to a short Wiki article and the second pic is how you would usually find chumus served here - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HummusFlippa, you're very welcome and I can't wait to hear your thoughts! *hug* Dorothy, nothing for. And I'm right there with you! Glad that the boys are looking happy and that they're talking... Harmonium, I've missed you here! Good to see you. Yep, I have recovered from my cold (wheeeeee!) and from my accident (though I'm still due for a third check-up at the doctor's). Definitely getting my groove back. I love the discussion you've started here. For whatever reason, I really love the fact that the show is bringing up so many thoughts and emotions on the subject. It's part of what makes it real and relevant in my eyes. Have a wonderful day, everyone, I'm off to work!
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Post by harmonium on Dec 16, 2008 5:16:57 GMT -5
matan4il Nice to see you drop by here!! I've been working on a new signature and I've managed to come out one that involves the new clip and hopefully it doesn't look too shabbily done. Hehehe. And I agree that of course, different people have different ways of handling relationships, but of course it takes 2 hands to make a clap, isn't it? Both must be in an agreement before certain things are allowed in a relationship. And great to hear that your friend and his partner is still together when they engage in an open relationship. It sure take alot of determination to shake off those temptations though.
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