elrohir525
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Post by elrohir525 on Jun 2, 2008 17:32:05 GMT -5
ho ho ho! is that what happened? Not really being so good at german, I pretty much just heard Olli and figured that's what he was laughing about.. lol. Well, I'm going by the translation posted on YouTube. It has Christian saying to Judith: "Oooh! Watch out, if you wanna bring me down you need to think of something else! I've already left Olli behind" (with a big, thoughtless, bad-boyfriend grin on his face! ).
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mgh48
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Post by mgh48 on Jun 2, 2008 17:33:43 GMT -5
Yeah, I'd probably be a bit pissed-off were that to happen to me, as well.
heh heh heh
My significant-other would think twice about doing that to me a second time.
heh heh heh
Geoff
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mgh48
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Post by mgh48 on Jun 2, 2008 17:37:25 GMT -5
ho ho ho! is that what happened? Not really being so good at german, I pretty much just heard Olli and figured that's what he was laughing about.. lol. Well, I'm going by the translation posted on YouTube. It has Christian saying to Judith: "Oooh! Watch out, if you wanna bring me down you need to think of something else! I've already left Olli behind" (with a big, thoughtless, bad boyfriend grin on his face! ). Got a link to that? I can't seem to find it. thanks Geoff
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elrohir525
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Post by elrohir525 on Jun 2, 2008 17:39:19 GMT -5
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mgh48
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Post by mgh48 on Jun 2, 2008 17:47:25 GMT -5
Oh, thanks. Geoff
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Post by psionycx on Jun 2, 2008 18:04:51 GMT -5
I think that sounds like the best explanation for that, but Christian leaving Olli in the dust in today's (Jun. 2 nd) episode, and then laughing about it to Judith, seems much less innocent to me! If my athletic bf "persuaded" me to go running with him, saying basically "no you can't cycle along, you have to run, too," and then just left me behind because I couldn't keep up, we'd be having a reeeaaally serious relationship talk when I finally caught up with him! Bad Christian!!! A boss of mine once explained that there are things he called "core personality traits", which are attributes that people have which are very fundamental to their personalities and which you generally cannot train out of them no matter what you do. So you must either work around them or learn to cope. Christian is a jock, and jocks are competitive. It's a basic part of jock nature. They wouldn't (indeed couldn't) be jocks if they weren't competitive. So it's not really surprising that Christian takes a kind of perverse pleasure in leaving Olli in the dust. Proving his athletic superiority is something he's naturally prone to do. Looking at the clip he's got that same mischievous boy look on his face that he usually gets when he does something slightly childish and naughty. I remember a similar expression on his face one time when he snuck up on Coco and startled her from behind the sofa. Presumably Olli likes this about Christian or else he wouldn't be attracted to him. However, he can always retaliate by arguing that he's now too sore and tired to have sex.
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Post by sheepiefarm on Jun 2, 2008 18:19:00 GMT -5
A boss of mine once explained that there are things he called "core personality traits", which are attributes that people have which are very fundamental to their personalities and which you generally cannot train out of them no matter what you do. So you must either work around them or learn to cope. Christian is a jock, and jocks are competitive. It's a basic part of jock nature. They wouldn't (indeed couldn't) be jocks if they weren't competitive. So it's not really surprising that Christian takes a kind of perverse pleasure in leaving Olli in the dust. Proving his athletic superiority is something he's naturally prone to do. Looking at the clip he's got that same mischievous boy look on his face that he usually gets when he does something slightly childish and naughty. I remember a similar expression on his face one time when he snuck up on Coco and startled her from behind the sofa. Presumably Olli likes this about Christian or else he wouldn't be attracted to him. However, he can always retaliate by arguing that he's now too sore and tired to have sex. It also goes hand in hand with his difficulty to express / talk about his emotions / feelings - the one area where Olli excells in - and very likely one of the reasons that Christian is drawn to Olli. Whenever it comes to talking about emotional stuff, Olli is nearly always one step ahead of Christian. He has to feel like he's asserting himself in other ways - though it is probably done in a subconscious manner. However - I do feel there is a slight glitch to the story here - at the beginning of their relationship, Olli was very much "into" going to the gym etc - it was one of the hooks that was used to build a bonded friendship between them - now we're supposed to believe that Olli is unfit
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Post by Bonobochick on Jun 2, 2008 18:23:10 GMT -5
A boss of mine once explained that there are things he called "core personality traits", which are attributes that people have which are very fundamental to their personalities and which you generally cannot train out of them no matter what you do. So you must either work around them or learn to cope. Christian is a jock, and jocks are competitive. It's a basic part of jock nature. They wouldn't (indeed couldn't) be jocks if they weren't competitive. So it's not really surprising that Christian takes a kind of perverse pleasure in leaving Olli in the dust. Proving his athletic superiority is something he's naturally prone to do. Looking at the clip he's got that same mischievous boy look on his face that he usually gets when he does something slightly childish and naughty. I remember a similar expression on his face one time when he snuck up on Coco and startled her from behind the sofa. Presumably Olli likes this about Christian or else he wouldn't be attracted to him. However, he can always retaliate by arguing that he's now too sore and tired to have sex. It also goes hand in hand with his difficulty to express / talk about his emotions / feelings - the one area where Olli excells in - and very likely one of the reasons that Christian is drawn to Olli. Whenever it comes to talking about emotional stuff, Olli is nearly always one step ahead of Christian. He has to feel like he's asserting himself in other ways - though it is probably done in a subconscious manner. However - I do feel there is a slight glitch to the story here - at the beginning of their relationship, Olli was very much "into" going to the gym etc - it was one of the hooks that was used to build a bonded friendship between them - now we're supposed to believe that Olli is unfit I was a bit surprised by that too, especially since Olli had much better form when doing the push-ups. Oh well. ;D *nudges Sheepie to check out the chat thread*
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Post by gastLXXXIV on Jun 2, 2008 18:38:48 GMT -5
Could you tell me what it means? Is she really his friend? Or doesn't it have more to do with her being his cousin? Does Olivia have any friends? More importantly: did she ever have any real friends? I pity the girl, in a soap-opera-ish kind of way. Well, I intended it to mean: "Woe unto us." (Like "Weh ist mir" / "Woe is unto me."). If indeed it does mean that, then it possibly has an archaic flavor--like the English. However, I hope Lola will set me straight--so to speak. Re Olli-Olivia: It certainly seems they're together more than might be reasonably attributed to Olli's acquitting himself of kin-obligation. But, of course, they do work together, and we know that Olivia doesn't like to work, so she spends a lot of the time cajoling Olli into confiding in her--which, incredibly, he continues to do. Likely, outside of Schneider's, she seeks him out, rather than he her. But who knows? Again, she's not a real person so beyond a certain point, it really doesn't make sense (not to me anyway) to analyze her as if she were. She's the composite of the writers' intentions--which may or may not be entirely consistent over time, and may or may not convince one of psychological 'integrity'--and the physical, expressive, and charismatic presence of the actress who plays her. I suppose I think ultimately she's a 'plot-twister', a device rather more than a person. Like those meta-characters who are supernatural enablers/thwarters in fables, fairy tales, et c. But ultimately I'd guess the difference of opinion here reflects an underlying difference of temperament: as Lola and Bchick may have concluded, mine is likely not suited to the soap universe. (But it's not suited to the one I've always lived in either!) As a small child I had no appetite for the wicked witch, and, I acknowledge, I haven't developed any since. Rather I always wanted to read about how 'happily ever after' played out--always disappointed that nothing followed--more disapointed than I can tell you.
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Post by gastLXXXIV on Jun 2, 2008 18:46:50 GMT -5
However - I do feel there is a slight glitch to the story here - at the beginning of their relationship, Olli was very much "into" going to the gym etc - it was one of the hooks that was used to build a bonded friendship between them - now we're supposed to believe that Olli is unfit So it seems. I believe I even recall a little bench-press competition between Olli and Christian which, I believe, Olli handily won. And that Olli appears the fitter of the two certainly feeds the 'disconnect' . . . (and in particular re good push-up form, as B-chick points out)
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mgh48
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Post by mgh48 on Jun 2, 2008 18:50:50 GMT -5
I think that sounds like the best explanation for that, but Christian leaving Olli in the dust in today's (Jun. 2 nd) episode, and then laughing about it to Judith, seems much less innocent to me! If my athletic bf "persuaded" me to go running with him, saying basically "no you can't cycle along, you have to run, too," and then just left me behind because I couldn't keep up, we'd be having a reeeaaally serious relationship talk when I finally caught up with him! Bad Christian!!! A boss of mine once explained that there are things he called "core personality traits", which are attributes that people have which are very fundamental to their personalities and which you generally cannot train out of them no matter what you do. So you must either work around them or learn to cope. Christian is a jock, and jocks are competitive. It's a basic part of jock nature. They wouldn't (indeed couldn't) be jocks if they weren't competitive. So it's not really surprising that Christian takes a kind of perverse pleasure in leaving Olli in the dust. Proving his athletic superiority is something he's naturally prone to do. Looking at the clip he's got that same mischievous boy look on his face that he usually gets when he does something slightly childish and naughty. I remember a similar expression on his face one time when he snuck up on Coco and startled her from behind the sofa. Presumably Olli likes this about Christian or else he wouldn't be attracted to him. However, he can always retaliate by arguing that he's now too sore and tired to have sex. Know what? You're right. This reminds me of one of my boyfriends, years and years ago. He was a Marine and was obsessed with 'jokes' like this: stealthing up to me remaining undiscovered, flipping on to his hands to walk, even picking me up and carrying me around (not easily done, as I'm 6'+ and in good shape, myself)---always had to be 'better'. It became annoying as hell heh heh Let's hope Oli doesn't begin to get irritated with this nonsense heh ;D Geoff
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Post by sheepiefarm on Jun 2, 2008 18:51:52 GMT -5
Re Olli-Olivia: It certainly seems they're together more than might be reasonably attributed to Olli's acquitting himself of kin-obligation. But, of course, they do work together, and we know that Olivia doesn't really like to work, so she spends a lot of the time cajoling Olli to confide in her--which, incredibly, he continues to do. Likely, outside of Schneider's, she seeks him out, rather than he her. But who knows? Again, she's not a real person so beyond a certain point, it really doesn't make sense (not to me anyway) to analyze her as if she were. She's the composite of the writers' intentions--which may or may not be entirely consistent over time, and may or may not convince one of psychological 'integrity'--and the physical, expressive, and charismatic presence of the actress who plays her. I suppose I think ultimately she's a 'plot-twister', a device rather more than a person. Like those meta-characters who are supernatural enablers/thwarters in fables, fairy tales, et c. I couldn't agree more Gast48. She is a device to facilitate a lot of plot twists that would otherwise take a huge amount of storytelling to get the story out. PS - She doesn't actually work with Olli at Schneiders anymore.
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Post by psionycx on Jun 2, 2008 18:52:37 GMT -5
I was a bit surprised by that too, especially since Olli had much better form when doing the push-ups. Oh well. ;D As I recall, part of Olli's enthusiasm for the gym was rooted in the promise of sweaty of musclemen. While he looks in good shape that doesn't mean that he's automatically strong or has lots of stamina. I know plenty of guys that are slender, tightly-muscled but only modestly strong. Conversely, I'm quite strong myself and am great with weights. But I can't run to save my life whereas my old boss who is in his early 60's still runs the NYC and Boston marathons! But he also freely admits he can't lift the weight that I can, so we're each in our own place (although I probably need to get closer to his). Boxers generally run a lot because they need a lot of cardiovascular stamina to survive in the ring for so many rounds. Otherwise they'd be dead on their feet early in the bout no matter how strong they are. I don't think we've seen Olli actually jog that I can remember. So in this regard he's not likely to be on par with Christian even if he's otherwise in good shape.
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elrohir525
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Post by elrohir525 on Jun 2, 2008 21:03:19 GMT -5
I think that sounds like the best explanation for that, but Christian leaving Olli in the dust in today's (Jun. 2 nd) episode, and then laughing about it to Judith, seems much less innocent to me! If my athletic bf "persuaded" me to go running with him, saying basically "no you can't cycle along, you have to run, too," and then just left me behind because I couldn't keep up, we'd be having a reeeaaally serious relationship talk when I finally caught up with him! Bad Christian!!! A boss of mine once explained that there are things he called "core personality traits", which are attributes that people have which are very fundamental to their personalities and which you generally cannot train out of them no matter what you do. So you must either work around them or learn to cope. Christian is a jock, and jocks are competitive. It's a basic part of jock nature. They wouldn't (indeed couldn't) be jocks if they weren't competitive. So it's not really surprising that Christian takes a kind of perverse pleasure in leaving Olli in the dust. Proving his athletic superiority is something he's naturally prone to do. Looking at the clip he's got that same mischievous boy look on his face that he usually gets when he does something slightly childish and naughty. I remember a similar expression on his face one time when he snuck up on Coco and startled her from behind the sofa. Presumably Olli likes this about Christian or else he wouldn't be attracted to him. However, he can always retaliate by arguing that he's now too sore and tired to have sex. OK, I think this calls for a two-part response. PART ONE: Dryly Serious As a graduate student in psychology, and with respect to your boss, I can tell you without hesitation that his source has seriously exaggerated the intractability of personality-driven behaviors (particularly in the couples context). Anyone who knows the field will tell you that even the most profound personality disorder can be overcome by a motivated person who's willing to put in a lot of time and effort. The reason couples counsellors predictably drone on about respect, communication, and compromise is that most people in a relationship have a few very comfortable and familiar ways of thinking and behaving that drive their partners up the wall, and are often unnecessarily hurtful. I think it's completely uncontroversial to say that any healthy couple needs two individuals who are committed to being together, who care for and respect each other, who are reasonably flexible, and who are able to communicate well. I must also say that I completely disagree with your jock=extremely-competitive-in-every-life-context line of reasoning. I wouldn't for one second let anyone who I cared about get away with such a cop-out! Would any of the straight women on the board let a bf get away with saying "well, I'm a guy, so I don't do housework/ever talk about my feelings/etc?" If Olli is going to be written as having near the self-respect I want to see him having, I think he needs to explain that he's Christian's partner, not a competitor, and that Chris needs to have the intellectual and emotional sophistication to distinguish between what's acceptable in the ring, and in the rest of the world. You used the word "perverse" to describe some of Christian's behavior--I think what strikes me as really perverse is how similar Christian's behavior toward Olli while running is at some level to Axel's behavior toward him (although certainly with a lot less malice). They both seem to say: "I'm better than you at this, and I know it, and now I'm going to rub your face in it because I can!" Anyway, I don't want to be all humorless about this--thanks for an interesting exchange of ideas, and here's hoping Olli and Christian manage to work through this and any other issues that come their way! PART TWO: Elrohir-Olli's approach Upon finally catching up to the wayward Christian (and catching his breath), a disarming smile on his handsome face, Elrohir-Olli embraces Chris gently. "Christian. My sweet, sweet Christian..." he says, "you know how I feel about you, right? Even though the writers haven't let me say so directly yet, you know I love you right? And that your determination, and your love of sport are two of the many things I really admire about you? And that I support you totally in your ambition to be the best steroid-free boxer the world has ever seen, right? Good!" Elrohir-Olli playfully caresses Christian's powerful biceps, and lifts his gaze to look deeply into his partner's incredible, shimmering blue eyes. "You also need to know, my Little Tiger (hope you don't mind if I borrow this aldebaran! ), that if you ever, ever, even dream of deliberately humiliating me like that again, you can Ann Coulter well find somebody else to get off on feeling superior to." Elrohir-Olli smiles sweetly at his Mann. "OK? Good. Let's smooch."
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Post by psionycx on Jun 2, 2008 21:58:44 GMT -5
elrohir525, I have to say that I find it very interesting that you immediately branded my statement about core personality traits as reflecting "personality disorders". If I might point out something, that suggests a tendency to treat any behavior you don't like as a pathology. The upside is that this mindset has turned psychology into a multi-billion dollar industry. Who says there's anything wrong with competitiveness? Without it our civilization would not exist. The drive to do better is the basis for all human progress. While ideally we like to imagine selfless people looking to improve the lot of all humanity, the reality is that most accomplishment has historically been driven by an individual desire for personal achievement. Why is there such an impulse to take a person that one loves, and then try to change them? Olli's had a pretty good exposure to Christian and I think he knows what Christian is like from a personality standpoint. He doesn't seem bothered by it, even if it's sometimes irksome. We'll have to wait and see if Christian's competitive spirit truly is a problem for Olli. Certainly anyone can be convinced to do anything. A person with the right message and degree of persuasiveness can convince people that hijacking airliners and flying them into buildings is the path to eternal salvation. Just because someone can be shaped into any behavior doesn't necessarily mean that they should be. Personally I think that this mindset is why there's so much unhappiness in society nowadays. People increasingly look for compatible partners based on superficial traits like attractiveness and assume that any personality incompatibilities can be "corrected" with a little work. What then results is a tug of war between wills as people try to dominate each other's personality in a quest to mold each other to their liking. But is this really healthy for anyone but the people in the therapy industry? Christian is definitely playing little boy games with Olli. But I think that's one of the things Olli finds cute about him, even if it's exasperating sometimes. There's no apparent malice behind it. And Olli, all else aside, seemed willing to play along in good humor (and sore muscles) with the pushups. He also was pretty clear right up front that he was not going to be able to keep pace with Christian so I don't think that there was an expectation there. It will be humorous to see this develop, but someone I don't expect it to be a big bone of contention. When Olli doesn't want to play anymore he'll put his foot down I'm sure. And Christian will likewise give ground. At least so far that's what they seem to do.
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Post by stuartsez on Jun 2, 2008 22:14:26 GMT -5
Hmm, I think you guys are reading way too much into Christian's behavior. Yes, he may be feeling a little insecure - Olli's more experienced, calmer, more centered, etc - and maybe the "leaving him in the dust" was a bit to bolster his own self-esteem, but it's also about his training and his career, so he's gonna do what he's gotta do now that he's choosen the natural path.
Plus, I'm sure that if there's any "punishment" coming his way from Olli, Christian will accept it with good grace [grin].
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Post by psionycx on Jun 2, 2008 22:19:12 GMT -5
Plus, I'm sure that if there's any "punishment" coming his way from Olli, Christian will accept it with good grace [grin]. Like I said, I think Olli finds Christian's little boy behavior cute. So if there's any urge for revenge it will probably be playful in nature. I mean come on, Olli puts up with Olivia! Do you seriously think that Christian can hold a candle to her when it comes to doing things to humiliate people?
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mgh48
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Post by mgh48 on Jun 2, 2008 22:26:31 GMT -5
Yeah, I'm thinking this is too serious here. Playful competition, yeah, that's ok occasionally---but not constantly.
Christian really seemed to be enjoying his little joke. Now, he'll have to make it up to Oli
;D
Geoff
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elrohir525
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Post by elrohir525 on Jun 2, 2008 22:32:23 GMT -5
I definitely don't want to start any kind of flame-war here psionycx, but I think you misinterpret me on a few points. You are exactly right to point out that a personality disorder is not the same thing as a personality trait. I actually considered doing an aside to explain that, but didn't for the sake of brevity. To clarify, what I meant is that while the two are different, if the disorder (which is much more intense) is treatable, than a simple personality-driven behavior should be (and is) much more amenable to change. Who says that?... I didn't. What I was trying to say is that regardless of what motivates it (personality, value system, whatever), I see emotionally abusive behavior toward one's partner (such as deliberate humiliation, even if done "playfully") as unacceptable, but it is also, fortunately, clearly changeable by the motivated individual. I think you make a good point here, in that Olli's subjective experience of Christian's behavior will determine things. I'm definitely interpreting Olli's situation according to my own values, and since these are fictional characters, there's no reason not to. If the writers decide that Olli isn't bothered by being left behind on a rainy night somewhere in the city, and being laughed at by his lover, clearly he won't make a big deal out of it. As for members of a couple dominating and molding one another, I clearly was not suggesting anything of the sort. Compromise and respect are not domination. I'll also be interested to see if Olli has anything to say about this little chain of events!
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Post by psionycx on Jun 2, 2008 22:41:30 GMT -5
If the writers decide that Olli isn't bothered at all at being left behind on a rainy night somewhere in the city, and being laughed at by his lover, clearly he won't make a big deal out of it. Drama much? No offense but has this been done to you or something? Why is it that Olivia can blackmail people, all but feed Cocaine to an addict, use false claims of pregnancy to bilk someone and otherwise behave like a sorry excuse for a human being and people around here adore her? Christian behaves like a silly adolescent once and it's like this monstrous crime against Olli. Olli who is on the whole a bit sharper than Christian and is probably likely to decide that if he's too tired to continue playing Chariots of Fire that he can just take a cab or a train back home? I guess we'll have to wait and see, but I'm not expecting a physically shattered, emotionally crushed and soaking wet Olli to come trudging into the flatshare the next time we see him. If he does, well, it's a soap and they decided they needed some drama.
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mgh48
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Post by mgh48 on Jun 2, 2008 23:36:33 GMT -5
re ELROHIR25: "...PART TWO: Elrohir-Olli's approach Upon finally catching up to the wayward Christian (and catching his breath), Elrohir-Olli embraces Chris gently, smiling disarmingly. "Christian. My sweet, sweet Christian..." he says, "you know how I feel about you, right?" Even thought the writers haven't let me say so directly yet, you know I love you right? And that your determination, and your love of sport are two of the many things that I love about you? And that I support you totally in your ambition to be the best steroid-free boxer the world has ever seen, right? Good!" Elrohir-Olli playfully caresses Christian's powerful biceps, and lifts his gaze to look deeply into his partner's incredible, shimmering blue eyes. "You also need to know, my Little Tiger (hope you don't mind if I borrow this aldebaran! ), that if you ever, ever, even dream of deliberately humiliating me like that again, you can find somebody else to get off on feeling Ann Coulter superior to." Elrohir-Olli smiles sweetly at his Mann. "OK? Good. Let's smooch..." ROFL!!! Great, Elro! ;D Geoff
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Post by lolaruns on Jun 2, 2008 23:37:39 GMT -5
I'm all for for reading stuff into small scenes, but this is one that didn't bother me. It strikes me as an obvious case the show being practical about how they fit scenes together. They do an outdoor shoot and only take two actors, so they pretend that the third one is "right around the corner". Which is poked out of continuity even further because meanwhile Olli was having scenes at his job at Schneiders (and surprisingly un-sore if I might add).
That said, I've been thinking for a while, do we really need have all the I love Judith scenes for example on the blog? If Judith might through some nightmare really ended up as the next Vanessa, do we really want to give them free advertising so to speak? Having them here to discuss them makes sense, but for example, I wouldn't give it its own topic.
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mgh48
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Post by mgh48 on Jun 3, 2008 0:12:46 GMT -5
I'm all for for reading stuff into small scenes, but this is one that didn't bother me. It strikes me as an obvious case the show being practical about how they fit scenes together. They do an outdoor shoot and only take two actors, so they pretend that the third one is "right around the corner". Which is poked out of continuity even further because meanwhile Olli was having scenes at his job at Schneiders (and surprisingly un-sore if I might add). That said, I've been thinking for a while, do we really need have all the I love Judith scenes for example on the blog? If Judith might through some nightmare really ended up as the next Vanessa, do we really want to give them free advertising so to speak? Having them here to discuss them makes sense, but for example, I wouldn't give it its own topic. Interesting, lola. I wonder: do you think the writers are just trying to make sure that a 'straight' couple is given equal billing so VL isn't or cannot be accused of simply being a 'gay soap' ? If we believe that the writers listen to us (and other sites) when they see the popularity of O&C and how negative most of the reaction is to J&F&C---then we probably need to re-evaluate our suppositions, eh? I see a great deal of negative commentary about Fabian on the main blog---so much so that I simply refuse to read it. The guy is NOT horrible looking and he doesn't look like Sam the Eagle. He's cute: teenage boy cute. Yet, many say otherwise. And, despite any of that, the VL writers clearly intend to make this story happen. I'm not used to being a TV soap fanatic, so my views may be way off. Geoff
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Post by lolaruns on Jun 3, 2008 0:17:47 GMT -5
I'm not sure what you mean. Obviously the various straight couples like Lydia and Sebastian, Judith&her boys, Lars/Nathalie/Ansgar, Sarah/Leonard get equal (or more depending on who is front burner) screentime to the gay storylines.
And again, this isn't exacly VL's first gay storylines. If they were to be known as a gay soap it would certainly be over Carla who was a front burner lesbian character for the last 5 years.
Same sex couple have had both same sex and opposite sex threats:
Carla/Hanna - Hanna was dating Lars when she met Carla and cheated on him with Carla. Carla was dating her slightly obsessive female secretary whom she considered barely more than a booty call/method of relaxation but who wanted more; to my knowledge, no threats once they were together.
Tom/Ulli - Tom's sister Alexa had a completely onesided crush on Ulli. Ulli cheated/almost cheated (depending on your definition of cheating) on Tom with another guy when he felt neglected.
Tom/Olli - Same sex threat in the form of Ulli (on Tom's side) and the emotionally from Lukas (Olli's side). Opposite sex in the form of Olli cheating on Tom with Jule.
Tom and his boyfriend were always close to both the female and male members of their flatshare (like Olli's close friendship with Andi, or Tom's friendship with ChristianI).
Carla/Susanne - Same sex threats in the form of Friedericke and Marina (Carla's side), opposite sex threat in the form of Lars (Susanne's side).
As a character Carla interacts a lot with both male an female characters as friends and relatives (for example, right now she seems to divide her helpful advise time between cousin Sebastian and close friend Nathalie; other helpful advice relationships include Leonard and Cecile).
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mgh48
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Post by mgh48 on Jun 3, 2008 0:21:50 GMT -5
I'm not sure what you mean. Obviously the various straight couples like Lydia and Sebastian, Judith&her boys, Lars/Nathalie/Ansgar get equal screentime to the gay storylines. And again, this isn't exacly VL's first gay storylines. If they were to be known as a gay soap it would certainly be over Carla who was a front burner lesbian character for the last 5 years. ahh, again, there is so much I don't know. I was just trying to say, perhaps the writers will put forward Judith's story regardless of public reaction simply because they wish to ensure that VL is not classed as 'just a gay soap'. Based on what you just said, though, I must conclude that actual resources have been spent on this story (Judith and her woes) and they now have no choice but to continue with it---despite the general disdain of the fans. Or, the writers really like what they are seeing and intend to defy the ratings---which I simply can't believe. Maybe the viewers in Germany have a different take on this story than those of us on this forum? Geoff
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