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Post by psionycx on May 31, 2008 14:00:53 GMT -5
Subconsciously Gregor has to have an inkling. But I think that the idea is so far out there that he can't consciously make the connection. After all, this is the Year of the Man Crush and Gregor may just think that Christian has latched onto Olli as a BFF.
Also, he probably believes that Christian would talk to him about something this significant in his life. That Christian actually has talked to him about escapes him because of the weird mindset Gregor's been over the Sarah thing and Christian seems to have dropped the matter after the failed coming out at the gym.
Miriam's just too lost in her fishbowl to get it and raise the issue with Gregor. Charlie would expect Olli to gaze adoringly at Christian given that she knows he's in love with him. But her failure to note the ramifications of Christian's similar closeness to Olli is peculiar. It's not normal for straight guys to cultivate close friendships with gay men that they know are in love with them.
All I can say is that it's amazing that more people haven't caught on.
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Post by gastLXXXIV on May 31, 2008 14:22:02 GMT -5
Also, he probably believes that Christian would talk to him about something this significant in his life. Yes, that seems to me too, from the point of view of character psychology, to be very important. Maybe. But don't you think there's been a little too much intra-relationship drama (of a telling sort) to fit that 'status'?
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Post by Bonobochick on May 31, 2008 14:31:22 GMT -5
Please be careful not to talk about future events, since some people don't like to know what's gonna happening in the next episodes. There's a proper thread about that called "Spoiler discussion". Thanks. ETA: Oops, the Moderator has just put a comment above, without mentioning it, perhaps I'm too strict! ;D No, I just hadn't had coffee yet and actually missed that sentence, but thanks for bringing it to my attention.
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Post by Bonobochick on May 31, 2008 14:34:12 GMT -5
Subconsciously Gregor has to have an inkling. But I think that the idea is so far out there that he can't consciously make the connection. After all, this is the Year of the Man Crush and Gregor may just think that Christian has latched onto Olli as a BFF. Also, he probably believes that Christian would talk to him about something this significant in his life. That Christian actually has talked to him about escapes him because of the weird mindset Gregor's been over the Sarah thing and Christian seems to have dropped the matter after the failed coming out at the gym. Miriam's just too lost in her fishbowl to get it and raise the issue with Gregor. Charlie would expect Olli to gaze adoringly at Christian given that she knows he's in love with him. But her failure to note the ramifications of Christian's similar closeness to Olli is peculiar. It's not normal for straight guys to cultivate close friendships with gay men that they know are in love with them. All I can say is that it's amazing that more people haven't caught on. Exactly. I said it a few weeks ago... subconsciously Gregor knows that Olli & Chrisitan are very close but he cannot consciously make the connection that Olli & Christian are close because they're in a romantic relationship. As for Miriam bringing it up with Mr. Bombastic? I am thinking he's not too high on her list of people she likes right now.
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Post by stuartsez on May 31, 2008 14:59:27 GMT -5
I think you're not giving Miriam enough credit. In the pub-quiz ep she was clearly watching Olli & Christian, and I think there's a moment when she goes "click" and gets it. As for her not bringing it up with Gregor, she still thinks he's kind of a jerk, and may be enjoying knowing something he doesn't.
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Post by sheepiefarm on May 31, 2008 15:29:15 GMT -5
Don't forget - way back when - that Miriam was totally surprised to find out Olli was gay (Lisa told her after finding him on the couch with Timo). Given the fact that Christian actually took her out on a date it may not have ocurred to her at all to even consider the possibility.
Gregor probably expects that his little brother would TELL him something that important - therefore since he hasn't (okay he did at the gym - but Gregors head was completely up his own arse at that time - I suspect he doesn't even recollect that talk). It will be interesting to see where this story goes.
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Post by gastLXXXIV on May 31, 2008 15:44:28 GMT -5
Don't forget - way back when - that Miriam was totally surprised to find out Olli was gay (Lisa told her after finding him on the couch with Timo). Given the fact that Christian actually took her out on a date it may not have ocurred to her at all to even consider the possibility. Gregor probably expects that his little brother would TELL him something that important - therefore since he hasn't (okay he did at the gym - but Gregors head was completely up his own arse at that time - I suspect he doesn't even recollect that talk). It will be interesting to see where this story goes. Ah, Sheepie! Always the voice of reasonable reason. HOWEVER: Whenever I've taken a girl out 'on a date', it just gave her that much more opportunity to figure out I'm gay. But perhaps that's not relevant. Even so, I did never spend the entire time eyeing other boys dancing, and violently intervening when one grabbed the arse of the boy I was "secretly" in love with. But then, it wasn't Miriam I was with, either. I don't think the above makes much sense. I'm very distracted and emotionally volatile today because of strange things happening in my (real) vicinity, that have absolutely nothing to do with this board or C&O--odd as that may seem. But there are always bad things happening, no? Evil being plotted and hatching in even the loveliest sunlight. That's how "they" get away with it. Do you have favorites among your flock, Sheepie? (I honestly can't tell at the moment if that's OT or not.)
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Post by sheepiefarm on May 31, 2008 16:12:40 GMT -5
;D Do you have favorites among your flock, Sheepie? (I honestly can't tell at the moment if that's OT or not.) Way off topic - and well you know it ;D ;D
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j9l45
Junior Member
Posts: 622
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Post by j9l45 on May 31, 2008 17:06:29 GMT -5
I seem to recall an episode where Olli was in No Limits agonizing to Olivia about being in love with his "straight" roomie. Gregor was behind them and appeared to have overheard them. Once again it's all about the look. Whether or not that was intended, I believe Gregor totally knows that Olli is gaga over Christian. He just doesn't realize the feeling is reciprocated. To him it could certainly explain why Olli is always following Christian around.
Gregor is definitely stuck in his own head right now. If he wasn't trying to drown his sorrows in random hook ups I think he would have caught on by now.
However, I also think his awareness of Christian's nature is ironically blinding him. Christian seems very reluctant to let people into his life. He doesn't have many friends, but the ones he has are incredibly close to him. He is more likely to have one good friend that he spends all his time with than a group of more casual friends. Maybe the long term viewers can shed some light on his friendship with Andi. If he was Christian's one-and-only friend, that may be how Gregor views C+O's relationship.
As for the failed coming out, I'm not sure. First and foremost, I think Gregor's mind was already with the various women he was meeting and what he planned on doing with them. He may (though unlikely) have seen it as C's way of saying that he was over his former stupidly homophobic behavior towards Olli and C trying to be all ho-yay. Gregor's thinking it was a joke suggests to me he might have thought Christian was trying anything to avoid going on a double date (which G was constantly pressuring C to do at the time.) That would at least explain why he never thought about it again. To his mind if C had been serious about it, he would have forced the issue or tried to tell him again. C is not usually one to back down (at least with Gregor.)
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Post by tyranamiros on May 31, 2008 18:32:33 GMT -5
As for Charlie, I think she knows, but the storyline just hasn't made a big deal of it. Maybe Olli hasn't told her, but I think she's aware that *something* happened. I'd love to see a scene where they deal with this, but Charlie and Christian have so few scenes with each other.
I really wonder if Lydia knows, now that she lives with the boys. I wish they'd address that glaring hole. If they are keeping it from her, I wonder what their excuses are (since they seem to get caught in the act by just about everyone.
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Post by gastLXXXIV on May 31, 2008 18:57:23 GMT -5
As for Charlie, I think she knows, but the storyline just hasn't made a big deal of it. Maybe Olli hasn't told her, but I think she's aware that *something* happened. I'd love to see a scene where they deal with this, but Charlie and Christian have so few scenes with each other. Yes, that's really a nice scene to imagine, tyranamiros. It seems like Charlie's kind words and 'maternal' embrace would be a comfort to Christian.
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Post by psionycx on May 31, 2008 20:35:22 GMT -5
Olli is a mixed blessing when it comes to the "accessories" he brings with him. Yes, Charlie would make a great mother figure. But Olli also brings Olivia and as we've all seen Christian absolutely loathes her, and with good reason. Even Olli is starting to take exception to her when she directly insults Christian.
But Christian does seem to cultivate few friendships. But in my experience this is fairly normal for Germans culturally-speaking. Americans, being an acquisitive culture, place a heavy emphasis on quantity rather than quality of relationships and it's normal for an American to have numerous very casual friendships. Germans seem to favor having a smaller number of high-quality friendships rather than many casual ones. Of course, Christian is a pretty extreme example of this. But also these days he has virtually no free time.
Even poor Olli now has to become a jock to spend time with him. Still, it will allow them to outrun Olivia's attitude and Judith's love triangle.
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mgh48
Junior Member
Posts: 368
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Post by mgh48 on May 31, 2008 21:12:48 GMT -5
Please be careful not to talk about future events, since some people don't like to know what's gonna happen in the next episodes. There's a proper thread about that called "Spoiler discussion". Thanks. ETA: Oops, the Moderator has just put a comment above, without mentioning it, perhaps I'm too strict! ;D Sorries! I'm talking in so many different posts, it's hard to keep track. Thanks to Bchick for catching that and fixing. Geoff
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restenergy
Full Member
Olli forever (and Christian, too)
Posts: 1,667
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Post by restenergy on May 31, 2008 22:48:03 GMT -5
As for Charlie, I think she knows, but the storyline just hasn't made a big deal of it. Maybe Olli hasn't told her, but I think she's aware that *something* happened. I'd love to see a scene where they deal with this, but Charlie and Christian have so few scenes with each other. I think that could be some nice scenes, but I actually think that the writers have made a choice not to really deal with this. I think they intend that Olli has actually talked to her already, just not on camera. When she stops Olli from going to Christian at the gym when Christian is knocked down, I can't see her acting and speaking in the same way if she had only figured out the relationship. I think that scene speaks to her and Olli having talked about it. I suppose it could be a general concern, but it is argued in a way that suggests a more specific understanding.
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Post by psionycx on May 31, 2008 22:55:53 GMT -5
I think that could be some nice scenes, but I actually think that the writers have made a choice not to really deal with this. I think they intend that Olli has actually talked to her already, just not on camera. When she stops Olli from going to Christian at the gym when Christian is knocked down, I can't see her acting and speaking in the same way if she had only figured out the relationship. I think that scene speaks to her and Olli having talked about it. I suppose it could be a general concern, but it is argued in a way that suggests a more specific understanding. I'm still unsure about that scene. Charlie knows that Olli is in love with Christian, so it's perfectly reasonable that he would be upset at seeing Christian KO'd and immediately want to rush to help him somehow. That wouldn't be surprising to Charlie even if she didn't know that Olli and Christian have become a couple. Her advice there was pretty neutral, and would have been applicable to almost any guy with Christian's personality type. It could just as easily have been concern in her eyes that Olli would damage his friendship with Christian if he made a fuss. Even so, she's very perceptive, and Olli has lost the sense of misery he had before he and Christian got together. But it would be a real shame if she and Olli have discussed this off-camera because she's the closest he has to a mother these days and it would be a significant conversation.
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Post by ivaniv on Jun 1, 2008 2:50:47 GMT -5
I saw it the same way, she knows Olli loves Christian and that's enough for that reaction even if she does not know about them being a couple. She's not a prying person, last time when we saw her talking about them with Olli was before they got together, because Olli was depressed and she was concerned. Now he's just late to work ;D
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Post by Bonobochick on Jun 1, 2008 4:02:22 GMT -5
Olli is a mixed blessing when it comes to the "accessories" he brings with him. Yes, Charlie would make a great mother figure. But Olli also brings Olivia and as we've all seen Christian absolutely loathes her, and with good reason. Even Olli is starting to take exception to her when she directly insults Christian. Really? I don't see Olli taking exception to her comments as I just see him ignoring it or letting it slide because she will say it regardless plus it's not like Christian doesn't give as good as he gets with Olivia & doesn't make bitchy comments to and about her. I get the impression Olli listens to the snark and doesn't dwell on it; that both Olivia and Christian are equally bitchy to and about each other. He seems like he wants them to stop squabbling and at least be civil but outside of that he just let's them have at it. If Olli totally did take exception, he wouldn't have spoken with Olivia about his concerns about Christian doping... he most likely would have just bypassed her & suffered silently or maybe have tried bending Judith's ear for advice/support.
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Post by psionycx on Jun 1, 2008 11:04:00 GMT -5
Really? I don't see Olli taking exception to her comments as I just see him ignoring it or letting it slide because she will say it regardless plus it's not like Christian doesn't give as good as he gets with Olivia & doesn't make bitchy comments to and about her. I get the impression Olli listens to the snark and doesn't dwell on it; that both Olivia and Christian are equally bitchy to and about each other. He seems like he wants them to stop squabbling and at least be civil but outside of that he just let's them have at it. If Olli totally did take exception, he wouldn't have spoken with Olivia about his concerns about Christian doping... he most likely would have just bypassed her & suffered silently or maybe have tried bending Judith's ear for advice/support. Unless I'm mishearing/seeing the 29 May clip, after Olivia calls Christian a loser and Christian tells her to "f--- off", it is Olli who then tells her "Out!" Christian's lips weren't moving for the word and Olli's face was turned towards her. I have a slight tonal problem with my hearing so I can't tell their voices apart when they shout. Even if it wasn't Olli who told her to get out he didn't defend her either, he was more concerned about the issue with Christian. While he's used to her catty behavior I don't think that he has unlimited willingness to tolerate it when it's directed at Christian. By the same token he didn't look happy the time she was drunk and hitting on Christian either. I do think that there are limits to what Olivia can get away with in Olli's case, it's just that she's generally smart enough not to push her luck too far and risk losing Olli as a friend/ally. For one thing Charlie wouldn't tolerate Olivia if Olli didn't insist on it. He's used to her being snarky and just going with it. But I think she hit a nerve calling Christian a "loser" in his presence.
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Post by lolaruns on Jun 1, 2008 11:16:42 GMT -5
Incidentally she calls him Lusche which is kinda along the lines of weakling, lazy, somebody who isn't exactly on their toes. Incidentally she calls a lot of people that. (the exact word for loser in German is Verlierer or Versager, but Lusche is pretty close to that in meaning)
I think the "out" came from Christian simply because the word used ("Zack!" which is closer to "And fast!") doesn't necessarily sound like something Olli would use in this situation.
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Post by psionycx on Jun 1, 2008 11:33:30 GMT -5
Incidentally she calls him Lusche which is kinda along the lines of weakling, lazy, somebody who isn't exactly on their toes. Incidentally she calls a lot of people that. (the exact word for loser in German is Verlierer or Versager, but Lusche is pretty close to that in meaning) I think the "out" came from Christian simply because the word used ("Zack!" which is closer to "And fast!") doesn't necessarily sound like something Olli would use in this situation. That's hardly better, especially as sensitive as Christian is. The reason I think that the "Zack!' came from Olli is that when the word comes out Olli still has his head facing her and his jaw moves slightly which suggests he's speaking. By this time Christian has already turned to face Olli and his mouth doesn't move, certainly not enough to say a word loudly. But it could be a timing issue on the video capture audio track. A displacement of about half a second would be enough. In either case Olli doesn't act to defend Olivia so I don't think he was happy with what she said.
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aldebaran
Full Member
Halunke, Ich liebe Dich so sehr!
Posts: 1,506
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Post by aldebaran on Jun 1, 2008 12:27:37 GMT -5
I've just watched the clip again. "Zack" comes from Christian without doubt. He moves his mouth when turning towards Olivia, and the tone of the voice is Chris's.
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Post by Bonobochick on Jun 1, 2008 12:37:26 GMT -5
Incidentally she calls him Lusche which is kinda along the lines of weakling, lazy, somebody who isn't exactly on their toes. Incidentally she calls a lot of people that. (the exact word for loser in German is Verlierer or Versager, but Lusche is pretty close to that in meaning) I think the "out" came from Christian simply because the word used ("Zack!" which is closer to "And fast!") doesn't necessarily sound like something Olli would use in this situation. That's hardly better, especially as sensitive as Christian is. The reason I think that the "Zack!' came from Olli is that when the word comes out Olli still has his head facing her and his jaw moves slightly which suggests he's speaking. By this time Christian has already turned to face Olli and his mouth doesn't move, certainly not enough to say a word loudly. But it could be a timing issue on the video capture audio track. A displacement of about half a second would be enough. In either case Olli doesn't act to defend Olivia so I don't think he was happy with what she said. Olli doesn't act to defend either Christian nor Olivia when they squabble at each other. And I don't think Olli said anything cause he was more focused on convincing Christian not to dope in that moment than worrying about some bitchy comment from Olivia. I'd say in that moment Olli was more unhappy at the thought of Christian doping than Olivia snarking. So while Olli maybe wasn't happy with her in that moment or the situation, he was hardly foaming at the mouth in rage at Olivia. And the "Zack!" came from Christian.
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Post by GayTime on Jun 1, 2008 12:53:31 GMT -5
first off: there is not a moment of doubt that it's CHRISTIAN who says the 'ZACK'. it's his voice and he's finishing a sentence with a slight timing problem on thore's end...
i think it's a pretty universal thing olli does here: both olivia and christian are people he cares about and he knows full well don't particularly like each other. they try to get along for his sake, but simply rub each other the wrong way. so for most part he keeps out of their quarrels. and in that particular scene, i think he's even a little grateful to olivia's snooping ways, cause otherwise he wouldn't have found out so fast what was going on with christian's steroid research.
in the fight olivia vs. christian, if anything at all, olli is switzerland.
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Post by lolaruns on Jun 1, 2008 13:03:46 GMT -5
I don't think that Olli takes Olivia's little schemes and digs seriously. He has said before that she is a little sister to him and to him there is no real malice behind what she does, so what she does rolls right off him. It's actually quite similar with Christian where Olli has grown to realize that a lot of Christian's little blow ups don't really mean anything and so he lets them roll off his back and just waits till Christian comes to his senses on his own.
He only steps in in certain cases where he considers it important, but in general he isn't trying to raise either of them into being more mature people.
That's why he isn't really a pushover to me either. He would be a pushover of Olivia or Christian's action really hurt him and he decided to ignore it for whatever reason (like to keep them in his life). But I believe him that generally they just honestly don't bother him.
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mgh48
Junior Member
Posts: 368
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Post by mgh48 on Jun 1, 2008 18:33:00 GMT -5
Perhaps, one day, Olli will finally get fed up with their attitudes towards each other and then let them both have it for acting like kids on the playground.
For now, I just get the feeling he's tracking both of them to make sure neither one gets out of hand or says something too severe? You know, the way he seems to watch each of them when they start it up.
Anyway, I agree it was hard to determine who said it (ZACK). I need to rewatch because it really seemed to be Olli when he's looking at her...
PS: like I need an excuse to watch it again LOL
Geoff
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