aldebaran
Full Member
Halunke, Ich liebe Dich so sehr!
Posts: 1,506
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Post by aldebaran on May 15, 2008 8:26:41 GMT -5
Somehow, I don't think he fights like Ali. Not at all, roddieb! Do you remember the discussion between Olivia and him? The latter kept saying that the best boxer for her was Ali, while Chris thought it was Joe Louis. So, he definitely won't fight like Ali, even though I don't know how Louis fought like. But it's kinda strange, because the time he made out with Olli in the gym, before Gregor left he told Chris he had talent, and he answered "Yes, I'm Mohammed Ali". Then he's a bit confused about who his boxing idol is... Anyway, we should start a petition in order to save Christian's face from strong punches!!! ;D
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Post by blueocean80 on May 15, 2008 8:51:28 GMT -5
I still don't think TPTB will damange Christian's face on purpose, but if there's a petition, I'll sign it. You never know...
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Post by Bonobochick on May 15, 2008 11:36:14 GMT -5
Sebastian got an over-dose of Weltschmerz. It's a very German thing. There must be a reason why the rest of the world thinks we're humorless, perfectionist workaholics. Ha! That's an awesome description, Nanna.
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restenergy
Full Member
Olli forever (and Christian, too)
Posts: 1,667
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Post by restenergy on May 15, 2008 19:38:50 GMT -5
He's like the perfect boyfriend (trustworthy, loyal, caring, honest, loving, straight-turned-gay for one person and Olli is the first guy to have a taste of him) I think you're right. Christian would be pretty good boyfriend material. (Alas, that position is already filled for me, so I guess Christian and Olli will have to wait.... But they appear to be busy with one another. But I do disagree with one part of your comment. I don't think Christian is straight-turned gay for one person. He might not be a 6 on the Kinsey scale, but I really do think he falls on that side of the scale. Christian's behavior over the story strikes me as someone who is coming to think about and recognize things about himself that he'd keep safely packed away, even from himself. Olli was the concrete instance that brought Christian to really think about his sexuality. That aspect of himself that he'd packed away and not really thought about began to come to the forefront because he had a real reaction to a real person. I don't think that his relationship with Coco wasn't genuine. I think it was. But his interaction with Olli seems to be deeper and fit better for him. Christian told Olli when he admitted that he'd fallen in love himself that he'd been fighting it. Given the way he'd behave different by himself, alone with Olli, and with others, I think the fighting was a long term thing, even if it was subconscious until more recently. At least, that's the way it seems to work out best as I watch it.
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Post by sheepiefarm on May 16, 2008 17:53:47 GMT -5
He's like the perfect boyfriend (trustworthy, loyal, caring, honest, loving, straight-turned-gay for one person and Olli is the first guy to have a taste of him) I think you're right. Christian would be pretty good boyfriend material. (Alas, that position is already filled for me, so I guess Christian and Olli will have to wait.... But they appear to be busy with one another. But I do disagree with one part of your comment. I don't think Christian is straight-turned gay for one person. He might not be a 6 on the Kinsey scale, but I really do think he falls on that side of the scale. Christian's behavior over the story strikes me as someone who is coming to think about and recognize things about himself that he'd keep safely packed away, even from himself. Olli was the concrete instance that brought Christian to really think about his sexuality. That aspect of himself that he'd packed away and not really thought about began to come to the forefront because he had a real reaction to a real person. I don't think that his relationship with Coco wasn't genuine. I think it was. But his interaction with Olli seems to be deeper and fit better for him. Christian told Olli when he admitted that he'd fallen in love himself that he'd been fighting it. Given the way he'd behave different by himself, alone with Olli, and with others, I think the fighting was a long term thing, even if it was subconscious until more recently. At least, that's the way it seems to work out best as I watch it. I agree with you on this but I'm not sure that he even "identifies" with the word gay (yet - anyway) He has fallen in love with another guy - but in typical Christian fashion - I don't think he has considered it beyond the fact that he loves Olli. At the moment he is still coming to terms with the fact that he loves Olli and how does he tell others (Gregor) about it - even his current storyline -homophobia in the boxing world - is less about himself and more about the fact that he has to deny his love for Olli. If (in the future) he and Olli were to part I can't see Christian heading out to get himself a man - at least not for a while. Christian is about love, relationships, commitment etc. I thought this was demonstrated quite strongly in the eventual breakdown of his relationship with Coco. His difficulty lay in as much with the fact that he'd fallen in love with someone else as it did with the fact that it just happened to be another guy. It wasn't till after the departure of Coco that he began to get his head round the fact that he was falling in love with a guy. Olli had already declared himself ready & willing - if it was just about "experimenting" I doubt if he would have had such a struggle with it.
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momnoc
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"Don't cry because it's over. Smile because it happened." Dr. Seuss
Posts: 1,613
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Post by momnoc on May 16, 2008 18:18:30 GMT -5
I think you're right. Christian would be pretty good boyfriend material. (Alas, that position is already filled for me, so I guess Christian and Olli will have to wait.... But they appear to be busy with one another. But I do disagree with one part of your comment. I don't think Christian is straight-turned gay for one person. He might not be a 6 on the Kinsey scale, but I really do think he falls on that side of the scale. Christian's behavior over the story strikes me as someone who is coming to think about and recognize things about himself that he'd keep safely packed away, even from himself. Olli was the concrete instance that brought Christian to really think about his sexuality. That aspect of himself that he'd packed away and not really thought about began to come to the forefront because he had a real reaction to a real person. I don't think that his relationship with Coco wasn't genuine. I think it was. But his interaction with Olli seems to be deeper and fit better for him. Christian told Olli when he admitted that he'd fallen in love himself that he'd been fighting it. Given the way he'd behave different by himself, alone with Olli, and with others, I think the fighting was a long term thing, even if it was subconscious until more recently. At least, that's the way it seems to work out best as I watch it. I agree with you on this but I'm not sure that he even "identifies" with the word gay (yet - anyway) He has fallen in love with another guy - but in typical Christian fashion - I don't think he has considered it beyond the fact that he loves Olli. At the moment he is still coming to terms with the fact that he loves Olli and how does he tell others (Gregor) about it - even his current storyline -homophobia in the boxing world - is less about himself and more about the fact that he has to deny his love for Olli. If (in the future) he and Olli were to part I can't see Christian heading out to get himself a man - at least not for a while. Christian is about love, relationships, commitment etc. I thought this was demonstrated quite strongly in the eventual breakdown of his relationship with Coco. His difficulty lay in as much with the fact that he'd fallen in love with someone else as it did with the fact that it just happened to be another guy. It wasn't till after the departure of Coco that he began to get his head round the fact that he was falling in love with a guy. Olli had already declared himself ready & willing - if it was just about "experimenting" I doubt if he would have had such a struggle with it. I agree with you Sheepiefarm! I saw it as Christian just falling in love with Ollie, the fact that Ollie was male was not the driving force but did present some problems for Christian to deal with.
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restenergy
Full Member
Olli forever (and Christian, too)
Posts: 1,667
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Post by restenergy on May 16, 2008 19:34:48 GMT -5
I agree with you on this but I'm not sure that he even "identifies" with the word gay (yet - anyway) He has fallen in love with another guy - but in typical Christian fashion - I don't think he has considered it beyond the fact that he loves Olli. At the moment he is still coming to terms with the fact that he loves Olli and how does he tell others (Gregor) about it - even his current storyline -homophobia in the boxing world - is less about himself and more about the fact that he has to deny his love for Olli. If (in the future) he and Olli were to part I can't see Christian heading out to get himself a man - at least not for a while. Christian is about love, relationships, commitment etc. I thought this was demonstrated quite strongly in the eventual breakdown of his relationship with Coco. His difficulty lay in as much with the fact that he'd fallen in love with someone else as it did with the fact that it just happened to be another guy. It wasn't till after the departure of Coco that he began to get his head round the fact that he was falling in love with a guy. Olli had already declared himself ready & willing - if it was just about "experimenting" I doubt if he would have had such a struggle with it. You make some good points, sheepiefarm. Worthy of thought. On the other hand, Christian has started talking about himself as schwul. Maybe his self understanding is much more about being in love with Olli, but I think it goes beyond that, and it's beginning to come out in what he says, at least to people in the know.
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Post by sheepiefarm on May 16, 2008 20:30:13 GMT -5
You make some good points, sheepiefarm. Worthy of thought. On the other hand, Christian has started talking about himself as schwul. Maybe his self understanding is much more about being in love with Olli, but I think it goes beyond that, and it's beginning to come out in what he says, at least to people in the know. My ignorance of other languages is my failing here as I'm unsure as to the meaning of the word " schwul"? I agree that his self understanding is now moving beyond that of his relationship with Olli - bringing his love out from beyond the bedroom door and placing it within the context of his day to day life is bound to make him re-adjust how he sees himself and "who" he sees himself as. The influence of living with Olli (a gay guy who is comfortable about his own sexuality) will also have an effect (even if it's subconciously). I know from my own experiences, being amongst other gay people allowed me to be " more gay" (and I really don't mean that in any way to sound disrespectful) - (it's a bit like me going to live in the USA for a year and coming home saying "yeah" instead of "aye"). At the moment I just can't see Christian going to a gay bar on his own and feeling comfortable with it that's all.
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restenergy
Full Member
Olli forever (and Christian, too)
Posts: 1,667
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Post by restenergy on May 16, 2008 20:45:35 GMT -5
At the moment I just can't see Christian going to a gay bar on his own and feeling comfortable with it that's all. I think your right about that. But that's more of a measure of where he is in terms of comfort being out and and being out while out and about. It isn't necessarily a measure of his internal history. On the other hand, I'm not sure if Christian would necessarily be someone who seeks out and would be comfortable at a gay bar, no matter how out he may be or where he is on the spectrum from straight to gay. I know I'm not the only one for whom the bars really aren't my or their scene. I've never been terribly comfortable at the bars myself, and that has nothing really to do with comfort with my sexuality.
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Post by lolaruns on May 16, 2008 23:18:00 GMT -5
I think that's probably at as much due to his opinions/values on the matter of relationships as it is about any gay/straight identification. I think Christian would probably be as unhappy alone at a straight pick up joint as he would be at a gay one, if his judgement of how Gregor lives his life is anything to go by. And it really seems to be less a judgement of people who do that, but more indicative of the kind of relationship Christian is looking for himself. So far all relationships we have seen him in were with people he knew independantly before he started dating them, not to forget his somewhat obsessive insistance on only wanting somebody he can trust/rely on (something that was a major theme in the Coco vs. Nico triangle too).
Basically, I could see Christian on an all gay poker game before I could see him going to a gay club on his own (or rather do it without being somewhat unhappy with it).
As for schwul, it definitely means gay. That said, it's hard to judge what it really means since soap operas (AWZ and VL alike) seem to throw it around somewhat more casually than people would in real life (like the way they fail to consider the option of being bi). In real life, people probably wouldn't use it casually to refer to themselves.
Because of the certain vagueness about the term in the way soap opera use it it's hard to decide what it really means in context of how Christian defines himself when he tends to zero in on the term "gay" (like during his failed outing with Gregor). [but since Christian is a bit of an all or nothing guy in general I could see him jump directly for the gay label simply because that's how his world view is; a bit all or nothing] Which is why it would almost be interesting to see what would happen if Christian and Olli ever broke up just to see how Christian would resolve the issue of dating (and whether he would go for men, women or both).
That said, while of course there is no insurance, since soap operas aren't always sticklers for characterization, I get the impression that it's slowly sinking in to Christian that this is a bit more, that maybe he prefers this kind of relationship, rather than just prefering this particular guy. Or that maybe he had something inside of him before Olli came and woke it. On the other hand, I do think that his boxing/homophobia issues are more a question of honor for him than it being an extension of being gay. (so more along the lines of "this situation isn't right, I must stand up")
I'd like to think that even if the writers went for our least favorite option, Christian going back to women only after Olli, he would still walk away with the sense that what happened to him in the boxclub was wrong (and would have been for any other guy in a similar situation).
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Post by sheepiefarm on May 17, 2008 6:51:37 GMT -5
I concede - my "gay bar" analogy was distinctly poor (I'm not particularly fussed about them myself).
In the context of "soaps" - they have such a limited amount of time to get their message across - key words are used liberally throughout. In Christian's case "gay" is the key word because it is the main subject of his current long-term story.
Bearing in mind the track of this discussion stems from someone's use of the term Straight - turned gay and to get back to that - I don't believe that denotes Christian. I agree with Restenergy that is has always been there and just took certain circumstances to ignite that side of his self.
As to whether he would pursue this path should he and Olli part ways - well - the good old scriptwriters have kinda kept that open....
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