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Post by justinate on Jun 7, 2021 8:57:24 GMT -5
These are the teaser clips for the remaining two guys, on the off-chance that one of them will also entertain same-sex attraction. It's exceedingly remote, of course; the guys are outnumbered by twice as many girls on the main cast, so adjust your expectations accordingly. http://instagram.com/p/CPy9_FEhjGt http://instagram.com/p/CPtvMe3BW81
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Post by justinate on Jun 10, 2021 0:27:05 GMT -5
Okay, my enthusiasm for this project just went up a few notches based on the trailer.
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dmagiclight
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Post by dmagiclight on Jun 10, 2021 13:13:06 GMT -5
maybe I was wrong about the series the teaser looks good
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hfolk
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Post by hfolk on Jun 10, 2021 17:20:45 GMT -5
does anyone else get an Elite feel from that promo?
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Post by justinate on Jun 11, 2021 12:53:51 GMT -5
does anyone else get an Elite feel from that promo? To me I think it's more of a Control Z vibe - I don't get the Elite murder mystery sense from here, but rather the unseen blogger who knows too much about people's private lives and exposes them publicly. There's definitely a bit more darkness here compared to Generation but still nowhere as dark as Euphoria. I'm really stoked now for this series - especially since it appears to confirm some gay interest between two male leads - and I just hope we won't be let down. I'd like to think they've learned from their mistakes of the original and from all the other great LGBTQ+ inclusive teen dramas that have come along since then.
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Post by justinate on Jun 16, 2021 10:35:09 GMT -5
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Post by justinate on Jun 17, 2021 7:28:57 GMT -5
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Post by mizuryuu on Jun 21, 2021 6:08:18 GMT -5
I hope they stay with how gossip girl was in the original, where all the secrets revealed comes from tips that the students themselves send in. If it is just some all-knowing instagrammer, it will never be realistic because there is no way one person can find out all these secrets, no matter how connected they are. It is the fact that everyone hates gossip girl, but also can't resist sending in the tips that powers gossip girl is what make the original dynamic so intriguing. After all, if nobody submitted tips in the original, the site would have quickly shutdown cause not even Dan (most stupid choice as gossip girl) would know enough to keep gossip girl going.
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Post by justinate on Jun 21, 2021 12:47:22 GMT -5
Yeah, the "reveal" of Dan as Gossip Girl was totally inconsistent with the stories portrayed over the years. It made zero sense. Anyway, here's a new teaser of Aki Menzies, who looks to be bicurious? (None of this material is new - it's all from the trailer.) Gossip Girl basically tells him to be wary when experimenting. http://instagram.com/p/CQZAte1A8Y0
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Post by arcoiris on Jun 25, 2021 8:20:33 GMT -5
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dmagiclight
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Post by dmagiclight on Jun 25, 2021 10:35:57 GMT -5
Wonder how many people will tune now after his comments
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Post by justinate on Jun 25, 2021 12:12:11 GMT -5
I honestly am shaking my head at this nonsense. I can understand straight actors wording their responses clumsily when asked a question about their own sexuality that they aren't prepared for, but for him to actually offer this heterosexual defense of his own accord was incredibly tone-deaf. I wouldn't go so far as to call him homophobic but it does show a lack of awareness and sensitivity. Not going to jump on the bandwagon to ban straight actors from playing gay roles but definitely think casting directors need to ask more questions when they hire them and invest in training (all around) for dealing with homo/bi/transphobia on social media, which is an incredibly toxic environment.
I feel bad now for the other people involved in this project (especially those who are LGBTQ+, as well as genuine allies) who look set to become collateral damage in the latest cancel campaign. In any case, I am still tuning in - I've waited a long time for Gossip Girl to actually feature prominent LGBTQ+ characters and stories, plus there are plenty of other people involved (which, like I said, includes LGBTQ+ actors) that one straight actor's offscreen comment doesn't warrant a cancellation to me.
ETA: If you read the full article, it actually says this role was written for Evan - so it's not like he "stole" it from a more qualified queer actor.
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carld2
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Post by carld2 on Jun 25, 2021 13:12:16 GMT -5
Wonder how many people will tune now after his comments I doubt most people will care. I don't really get anything out of his photos (I'm not surprised to learn he's straight as they all come off as a poser being used to appropriate), so unless he is much better onscreen, I would call this a casting failure. He is doing this:
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Post by jjose712 on Jun 25, 2021 14:50:23 GMT -5
I read what he said and i was thinking if i was being oversensitive but now i know i was not the one who had that reaction.
He doesn't play a gay character and he needed to show how straight he is even before the show gets on screen. He looked extremely insecure and if he felt so pressured he simply should avoid playing any character that is not straight (most of them are straight anyway).
The worst part is that i got the feeling that he was trying to get it all, to show how open minded he is while let it clear that he is very very straight.
It was a big fail.
The problem is most actors are not smart enough, if he is straight people will know, if he was directly questioned about it it would be different (there's no reason to not be sincere).
I know there are a lot of straight actors who love playing their gay roles and are commited to tell the story, but what happened here shows how Hollywood miscast all the time (when promote the shows is a big part of the job) and why they should hire more gay/bi actors for this type of roles
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carld2
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Post by carld2 on Jun 25, 2021 18:02:10 GMT -5
So he did not want to play the role, and Safran had to push him about it - he has since made comments which again express discomfort or confusion with the role. Yet here we are.
I'm reminded of why the original show so quickly fell apart. I don't think I will be bothering with this one.
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Post by justinate on Jun 26, 2021 0:01:39 GMT -5
So he did not want to play the role, and Safran had to push him about it - he has since made comments which again express discomfort or confusion with the role. Yet here we are. I'm reminded of why the original show so quickly fell apart. I don't think I will be bothering with this one. It's worth pointing out that the quote has been presented very selectively - possibly with the intent to mislead. In fact, it comes in the context of Evan not wanting to go into acting - he has never acted before - and Joshua Safran urging him to try it. Here's the context in which the quote appears: Source: www.mrporter.com/en-us/journal/fashion/evan-mock-interview-actor-skater-gossip-girl-2008790So while Mock's casting does get the side-eye from me, it's due more to the fact that Safran has written him the role of a boy with a girlfriend who feels insecure about a tryst with another male. It sounds like it could be a perfect fit ... I get that not everyone is a fan of Joshua Safran. His patchy track record does make me wary, too. But how much of it was in his control, and are we saying no one has the ability or will to improve on their mistakes? The original Gossip Girl had very limited queer presence - but Safran did turn Eric van der Woodsen gay and offered Connor Paolo a contract which Paolo declined. Would we have seen good stories featuring Eric if he hadn't declined? We don't know. What we do know is that Safran found himself stifled by the environment at the CW which, despite being a youth-oriented network, has a very poor record when it comes to gay male representation. He has more freedom with the reboot and has spoken about how excited he is to represent various parts of the queer experience (both as a teen and an older man) this time around. The casting is diverse and includes openly LGBTQ+ actors. As for Quantico, the gay storytelling there did leave something to be desired. I didn't consider it homophobic so much as incoherent. Why would someone hoping to fly under the radar at the FBI pretend to be gay? It made no sense. He did have out actors (Russell Tovey and Jay Armstrong Johnson) playing queer characters. And ultimately, the biggest achievement of Quantico was putting a woman of South Asian descent (Priyanka Chopra Jonas) as the principal protagonist for 3 seasons of an espionage/action-thriller series on American TV. That's why I'm unconvinced by the naysayers who claim the diverse casting on this GG reboot is pure tokenism/opportunism. Anyway, I'm trying to be optimistic about this. It's a reboot of a show that was impactful to me as a teenager, but with the more queer-inclusive focus that the original lacked and I would've dearly loved. The spoilers we've gotten about the storylines involving the pansexual boy are promising. Plus they've made big strides in upping the racial and sexual diversity of the cast, with POC, queer and trans actors. They can still fall flat on their faces, but I'm not going to write the whole show off on the comments of one actor, without even seeing a single episode. And if, after watching it, it turns out to be a terrible representation of the LGBTQ+ community, I will be ready to join everyone on here with my own trusty pitchfork.
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Post by jjose712 on Jun 26, 2021 6:09:56 GMT -5
Oh, he is the head writer of Quantico, that explains a lot.
Quantico's first season is the most homophobic crab that i watched in a long time. It's like something someone with inferiory complex will write. The main character faked to be gay for no reason, and the real gay character (which of course was not one of the main characters) was a traitor and a coward.
The truth is a lot of gay writers seem to have that kind of inferiory complex, all their gay characters exist to support an straight characters and in the moment they need something to shock the audiences the gay character is toast.
I don't understand why he wanted this guy to play the character, he is not Meryl Streep and he is unable to even give an interview without putting his foot in his mouth. And that's other thing, casting gay actors seem to be hard when the producer, director or head writer is gay too (with some notable exceptions).
I didn't change my oppinion about actors playing gay roles, acting is pretend to be someone you are not so it doesn't have any sense that you can't play a role because you are not as the character, but in 2021 you should at least cast an actor who is comfortable playing the role. Sometimes it's difficult to understand why some actors got their roles when it's pretty clear they are totally innapropiate for the role.
Anyway, even in shows with prominent gay roles (even front and central) have cast without a single gay actor, i suppose that's the reason something like 911 Lone star is so refreshing, a mainstream show with two out guys in the roles
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Post by justinate on Jun 27, 2021 8:31:54 GMT -5
For the record, not only is the showrunner gay, two actresses in the regular cast identify as LGBTQ+ (Jordan Alexander is queer and Zion Moreno is trans). That's only among the 9 regulars announced to date, whereas the show apparently has 16. It's not clear who the other 7 are, but presumably they are older characters/parental figures, which could include one or more of the 5 openly queer actors: Adam Chanler-Berat, Jason Gotay, Jeremy O. Harris, John Benjamin Hickey and Todd Almond (the latter two of whom play Max's gay dads). That's excluding any actors or actresses who may not publicly identify as LGBTQ+.
Of course, it would be nice if every show could be a 9-1-1: Lone Star (whose queer representation is excellent, but not perfect - remember how they were censoring gay kisses earlier this season?), but it's worth remembering that, although LGBTQ+ people are likely over-represented in the screen industry compared to their proportion of the general population, the ratio isn't going to be like 50%. Nor did Ronen Rubinstein come out until the second season of the show (at the age of 27) so would the show have even known he was queer when he was cast in the role? I believe every actor in the GG cast is younger than Ronen. We can't demand everyone come out publicly at a young age as a prerequisite to being cast in a queer role. (The treatment of Joshua Bassett, with LGBTQ+ "activists" demanding that he pick a label, has been shameful.) There could well be other actors who fall on that spectrum but don't want or feel comfortable being publicly out at this early stage of their careers. Van Hansis, Matthew Bomer and Colton Haynes are just three examples. We can say all we want that things have improved massively for LGBTQ+ people but you only have to scroll through the comments on social media (such as Netflix and Hulu's promotion of LGBTQ+ content for this Pride month) to know that it hasn't really improved all that much - and in some ways, worse, because public figures have lost one barrier of protection they had when everything wasn't digital.
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Post by jjose712 on Jun 27, 2021 12:56:20 GMT -5
I don't demand gay actors, i demand actors who feel comfortable playing gay.
It's obvious that in a cast with young actors, the gay ones (if there's any) are probably years before even thinking in coming out (and that's understable because it's way better to prove your acting chops before people decide to put you in a box just because you are gay).
The problem here is chosing an actor who is clearly uncomfortable playing a role (that is not even gay), the same problem that Riverdale has.
And i find difficult to believe that they are unable to find someone who is able to play the role without flaunting a girlfriend or how much disgust him having to kiss a guy.
When i was talking about 911 lone star (the original is very gay friendly too even with the excess of gay baiting) i could have use Station 19 whose actor is straight but he really cares about the role. Those are shows for mainstream audiences, both are a type of shows who were totally straight not so long ago (in fact similar shows right now are totally straight). Watching a gay character on a procedural was something very unusual.
And I'm sorry but i couldn't care less if the showrunner is gay, there are plenty of examples of gay showrunner who treated their gay characters like crap. Give me a straight one who treats his gay characters with dignity (and we have Spartacus as example, the show main audience was straight guys, but the showrunner refused to skip his gay characters and treated them exactly the way he treated his straight characters).
And the problem with Joshua Bassett is that everything around him seem scripted. The Harry Styles gushing seemed destined to make him look cool (and he had reasons to believe that'll work because it worked for the 1975 singer). The coming out (i don't know if that's a correct term because he came out as absolutely nothing) was useful to avoid backlash (and he had previous experiences with that, and the whole Driver's license controversy put him in a place where a coming out was a good idea).
So we have a young actor who basically didn't say a thing, he didn't took any risk and he even criticied the need of coming out and some people (maybe it's cynical) think he is basically using the community and he'll start to date a girl in the following months (and we'll never see him dating a guy). And unfortunately they have reasons to think that because that's exactly what Lucas Hedges did (till recently).
By the way, i don't think actors should answer questions about his sexual orientation just because they are playing a gay role, but if they feel very unconfortable with that they can avoid gay roles which is what usually closeted actors did in the past.
Because frankly, watching Julian Morris saying he was inspired on some gay friends to play his character in The man in the orange shirt was very pathetic
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Post by justinate on Jun 28, 2021 7:14:26 GMT -5
I feel like it's a stretch to portray Evan admitting it was "weirder" to kiss another guy as some kind of total "disgust" as you have. The very fact that he says it was "weirder" (rather than just plain "weird") suggests that he already finds it unusual to kiss girls as part of acting, which he has never done before. If we interpret the word "weird" as disgusting, then that must mean he finds kissing girls disgusting and kissing boys, even more disgusting. I really doubt that is the intention behind the quote. He acknowledges that societal norms contributing to that feeling, which suggests he knows it wasn't a fair reaction. And before he said anything about his personal response, he said that the threesome was "lit". If we want to be literal about everything, we should factor that in, too.
Also, like I said before, Evan is playing a character who is supposed to be conflicted about same-sex attraction. The role was written specifically for him. Those are two key differences with Casey Cott, IMO. I don't understand why he was cast in the role of Kevin on Riverdale. Physically he doesn't match up to the role. Acting-wise, he cannot play a guy who is convincingly attracted to other men - which, for Kevin, was the case from day one. (Only in the most recent season they introduced a plot where Kevin decided he didn't want to be gay.)
Sadly I do know a lot of gay showrunners fail to advance gay representation positively on the shows they helm. We'll never really know how much interference they get from the network, producers, etc. Ron Carlivati is a good example. He created or resurrected popular gay couples on all of the three soaps he's written. But each time it has faltered because of pressure from higher-ups.
I still find the whole Joshua Bassett situation really depressing. He just turned 20. Why is everyone so cynical? Is it implausible that he has experienced same-sex attraction but hasn't decided yet where he falls on the queer spectrum? Bisexuality is a real thing, not a halfway staging post to full-blown homosexuality. And yes, maybe he will never have a relationship with another guy. That doesn't mean he isn't LGBTQ+.
If he wants to take the heat off himself for the purported love triangle, pretending to come out as LGBTQ+ is not what I would call "no risk" but a huge one. He was already very popular. For every gay fan that he gains, he will lose a girl who thinks he must be secretly gay. He will be targeted by homophobic abuse (and equally, biphobic criticism from gay men). Some of the people to turn against him may be his own family and friends, if Michael Cimino's experience is any indicator (and he's just playing a gay character). Casting directors may decline to cast him in straight roles because they deem him "unbelievable" playing straight, or because his sexual orientation is "inappropriate" for a children's show. Any girlfriend he gets from now on will undoubtedly ask him about his sexuality, and if/when they break up, she will probably go to the press and expose him as a liar. It can be a hugely cynical fraud by Joshua and his publicist, but there's no way we can call it "no-risk".
You quote the example of Lucas Hedges but he is dating Tommy Dorfman. That's what bisexuality is. They are attracted to both sexes. They may lean 90% female, 10% male. It's still bi. He would be bi even if he continued dating women exclusively. Do bi actors need to leak sex tapes of themselves with other guys before we believe they are queer? Again, the drawbacks of publicly coming out as something you're not, outweigh any benefits.
A lot of young, fresh actors don't have a choice whether they want to answer questions about their sexuality, until we can stop journalists from asking that question. If someone declines to answer the question, the journalist will probably write that, "The actor refuses to be drawn on the topic of his sexuality" - and we all know how that would be interpreted. In fact I remember seeing a quote along those lines before in an interview with an actor whose sexuality was debated. Actors shouldn't be publicly forced out of the closet to make others feel good. Yes, they've chosen a career in the public eye but that doesn't mean they have no privacy and owe us every sordid detail about their personal lives.
Where I draw the line is when people go out of their way to deceive the public, and then, when they eventually come out, the gay press, for inexplicable reasons, praises their bravery. I don't recall Julian Morris doing anything like that but I definitely remember Colton Haynes and Aaron Schock. In Colton's case I just found his circumstances incredibly sad, but it didn't merit the fawning press. Schock, on the other hand, actively undermined gay rights while he was in office.
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Post by jjose712 on Jun 28, 2021 14:51:05 GMT -5
I have no problem with him being uncomfortable, i have a problem with his need of show how straight he is on an interview (one of the first to promote the show). If he is uncomfortable when people thinking he is gay he should not play a that character, period.
The main problem with actors is most of them are not smart, because it's not that difficult to carry an interview, being supportive of the character and the storyline without putting your foot in your mouth. He wanted to show how open minded he is and he failed spectacularly. If he is straight that will be obvious in the following months, when an actor feel the need to make that clear from the begining it's for three reasons, he is insecure (that seems to be his case), he is an homophobe or he is a closet case (sometimes a combination of the three).
To be fair with Casey Scott he is a mediocre actor and seems uncomfortable with the character but the writting is atrocious and even a good actor comfortable playing gay will have trouble portraying such nonsense
Sorry but Joshua is playing a straight character, he refused to define himself (which is very convenient) because he doesn't want to be labeled. Perfect, but that's not a coming out. He can perfectly start to date a girl tomorrow and people will forgot his supposed coming out way faster than he said it i don't like labels.
Sorry but everything around Bassett seemed too prefabricated to be believable. I will love to be wrong, time will tell.
And yes, i'm a little cynical when it comes to actors coming out, because all those coming out as queer seem to convenient to avoid all the fake relationships in the past (and there are several examples).
And i doubt Lucas Hedges is dating Tommy Dorffman, he had way more explicit pics with Jacob Elordi not so long ago. Anyway, i said till recently exactly for that, but his coming out was as self serving as a coming out can be. And he didn't came out as anything at all, he basically wanted to avoid any criticism for playing so many gay characters being straight (of publicly straight). And that nonsense worked perfectly fine, he was praised, he start to date a girl publicly and the gay rumours (because the rumours were he was gay) vanished
And as i say i can understand why a young actor don't want to come out. Acting is the type of business that tends to put people in boxes (and there are a lot of dramatic actors who can get the roles they want because they became famous on a comedy), so it's perfectly understable to try to show how talented you are and play a lot of different roles. Once you do that and you got a reputation things are way easier, and you have examples like Ben Wishaw or Jonathan Groff who play a lot of different roles and they are always working.
Anyway there's a lot of ways to stay in the closet, it's not the same not address your sexual orientation (there are straight actors who avoid that kind of questions) than playing the game and be in a fake relationship for the sake of promotion
The case of Michael Cimino is different. First he is taking a risk because he is the main character on a show where being gay is front and center and unfortunately when you are a member of a minority you become an easy target. So he could suffer being typecasted. And of course he has to be careful because it's quite easier to get people upset.
People tend to trash Ryan Murphy, but at least one can give him credit for writing gay roles and cast gay actors. Most gay writers and producers failed big time to do both, and in fact it's pretty clear that for openly gay actors the enemy it's at home, and there are a good bunch of gay producers and directors who clearly prefer not the cast gay actors.
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Post by justinate on Jul 3, 2021 7:32:20 GMT -5
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Post by arcoiris on Jul 4, 2021 6:34:26 GMT -5
They should have gotten Joshua Bassett or Jack Dylan Grazer to play the gay character. Both are youmg, good looking actors who are out.
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dmagiclight
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Post by dmagiclight on Jul 4, 2021 13:04:49 GMT -5
They should have gotten Joshua Bassett or Jack Dylan Grazer to play the gay character. Both are youmg, good looking actors who are out. I Agree
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Post by justinate on Jul 5, 2021 8:02:34 GMT -5
Well, neither of those actors were out at the time the show cast its actors and began filming (last year). And both have their own controversies so we can't really tell if it would have avoided anyone taking issue with their casting. Not to mention, substituting the only Asian-American/Pacific Islander actor on the cast with a(nother) white one seems like it would become another source of dissent. From an aesthetic point, too, I sense a incongruity. Joshua and JDG are both actual teenagers (well, Joshua turned 20 at the end of last year) and look their age, which might put them out of sync with the rest of the cast who are generally mid-20s. I expect they also needed slightly older actors to allow the show to be more racy and appeal to fans of the original show, who are now late 20s/30s. Anyway, a short clip of Max - I hope they are not going with the greedy bi/pansexual trope: http://instagram.com/p/CQ6iIdABCFc
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