talula
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Post by talula on Mar 23, 2015 17:51:26 GMT -5
I liked how it ended,it was inevitably and i'm glad writers did it in a very honest and open way,no more reticence,lies and illusions, Patrick finally realized that Kevin and him will never work because they want absolutely different things from relationship,and him running back to Richie speaks volume, this where his heart is, this is a man whom he never should let go. Now we need a third season, to wrap all things up, Dom deserves to find his right man who will make him happy, Patrick and Richie should find the way back to each other , Agustin and Eddie... well i think they only ones who got their happy ending , kind off ,and im sure Kevin will be ok too,he already in the right place to find his happiness,lol Is there any chance we get a third season?
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dalia
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Max & Iago Forever
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Post by dalia on Mar 23, 2015 22:56:08 GMT -5
I loved the season finale. Might actually have been the best in terms of Patrick's storyline, Dom and Doris had a great episode this season a few episodes ago.
Finally the relationship between Patrick and Kevin crumbles to pieces just when Patrick thought he had everything he always wanted. I'm glad that Augustin and Dom disappoved of Patrick moving in so fast with Kevin. Maybe one day Patrick will actually listen to his friends. The Field of Dreams poster, I couldn't stop myself from making a backstory for that. Jon's in sports medicine, works for the Giants...maybe he's a baseball fan, maybe that was his favorite movie.
I really dislike Kevin, but to his credit, he didn't lie to Patrick. Sure he could have brought up the open relationship thing almost as soon as they got back together, but him letting him know was a helluva lot more thoughtful than what he did (and was probably doing long before he hooked up with Patrick) to poor Jon. It's funny we know practically nothing about Jon, but i feel for him. What i thought what was really dickish of Kevin, even though yes, it was all true were those shots he took at Patrick. Especially that one about Patick calling him from the Russian River when he was in bed with his boyfriend. Even more than his admission of wanting an open relationships these shots, his mother's affair, cheating on Richie, his own part in the demise of Kevin's relationship with Jon (something he always wantd to be innocent of "I was single!") forced Patrick to realise that this perfect relationship with Kevin he had made up in his mind never existed and would never exist.
The running back to Richie was expected. I'll always remembr Richie telling Patrick "I take this boyfriend thing, very seriously" I love Richie, I love him so much I don't want him ever to be with Patrick again. But I'll take Patrick running back to Richie just so I can see him on my tv screen. lol
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Post by Difficult Diva on Mar 24, 2015 6:51:03 GMT -5
I loved the season finale. Might actually have been the best in terms of Patrick's storyline, Dom and Doris had a great episode this season a few episodes ago. Finally the relationship between Patrick and Kevin crumbles to pieces just when Patrick thought he had everything he always wanted. I'm glad that Augustin and Dom disappoved of Patrick moving in so fast with Kevin. Maybe one day Patrick will actually listen to his friends. The Field of Dreams poster, I couldn't stop myself from making a backstory for that. Jon's in sports medicine, works for the Giants...maybe he's a baseball fan, maybe that was his favorite movie. That is a good back story, because when getting out of a relationship with someone, your possessions can get mixed with your exes items and sometimes, you just leave stuff. Some folks, really didn't want Jon to be brought up at all and I do think,that's one of the very many reasons why, both Kevin and Patrick chose to not talk about what they each wanted in a relationship and from each other, before moving in together. They wanted to avoid the messy things, which resulted in adding another level of messiness to their beginning relationship. Notice how, it was Patrick who was still awake, while Kevin was asleep? Kevin thinks, that since they had that talk and aired everything and him even saying to Patrick, that he would try to "control" himself and his desires, that everything is fine with them. He has absolutely no idea, how his boyfriend functions. That entire fight/conversation is on constant loop in his mind. Patrick's "I'm ready", wasn't about him trying again with Richie. I would love to see if Patrick could realize that he could have Richie in his life, but only as his friend. To know, that he isn't at all ready for a relationship and that he shouldn't keep thinking of Richie, as someone, he could keep in his back pocket, as a future possibility. Let Patrick find somebody else, when he is ready to try again.
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Post by Difficult Diva on Mar 24, 2015 7:56:34 GMT -5
Kevin definitely seems to have found his home there, his own little heaven even. His response to Patrick - of all people - pointing out the homogenous and pretty whiteness at the party was also oddly telling. His condescension, cutely infected intonations and moves like the sliding across the floor, which have become his trademark in trying to deflect or downplay a situation, were also in full display. No luck with Patrick, who'd for his part lost the memo on the likelihood of getting done to you what was done with you.Tonight's episode was delicious and delivered on all accounts for me. The Stepford Clones. Kevin's particular amusement of them, while Patrick was horrified. The "Rompford" reveal. The knowledge of seeing both Patrick and Kevin, basically wanting different things. Patrick realizing, that he went from the "new dick" to Jon's old role, in Kevin's mind. What was brilliant about the writing in this episode is that even that pairing's fans can’t in all reasonableness deny the absolute truth in it. It connected all the dots that were scattered not just since the beginning of this season, but since the very first season. Not a single lie was told in the Patrick/Kevin fight; they were no longer lying to each other or themselves. Yet it wasn’t preachy, just too real to be faulted. And as usual, the technical and crafting work was really great. Oh, Macari. It's already being called "sloppy writing", that both Kevin and Patrick chose to not talk about what they each wanted before they moved in together. Yet, that was resolved, when Patrick said that he wanted to prove to himself, friends, family and world that he could be in a relationship. Along with Kevin saying that he didn't want to bring up the topic of opening their relationship, on the first day of them moving in together. Also, some folks cannot figure out, why Kevin told Patrick, that he wanted to give their relationship a shot, with "just us" and then say that he wants an open relationship. Kevin explained that as well, in the talk he had with Patrick. He even doesn't want to feel guilty over his desires,like how he ever felt with Jon and based on how he got with Patrick, he assumed that he would also understand. Again: Kevin having absolutely no clue on who Patrick is and how he functions. The whole belief and idea,that those two, were a "perfect match", was imploded in the season finale.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2015 10:08:38 GMT -5
Oh, Macari. It's already being called "sloppy writing", that both Kevin and Patrick chose to not talk about what they each wanted before they moved in together. Yet, that was resolved, when Patrick said that he wanted to prove to himself, friends, family and world that he could be in a relationship. Along with Kevin saying that he didn't want to bring up the topic of opening their relationship, on the first day of them moving in together. Also, some folks cannot figure out, why Kevin told Patrick, that he wanted to give their relationship a shot, with "just us" and then say that he wants an open relationship. Kevin explained that as well, in the talk he had with Patrick. He even doesn't want to feel guilty over his desires,like how he ever felt with Jon and based on how he got with Patrick, he assumed that he would also understand. Again: Kevin having absolutely no clue on who Patrick is and how he functions. The whole belief and idea,that those two, were a "perfect match", was imploded in the season finale. Ha, that's why I wrote "in all reasonableness". I've come to expect certain things from the interworkings of the hardcore shipping minds. "Sloppy writing" and "out of character" tend to be phrases of choice for the dismissal of truth and reality. Everyone else would appreciate the honest and true to character writing. Personally, when almost every single thing I've thought and even written throughout the whole season gets jam packed into one single episode, I can tell myself that I wasn't completely off the mark and was watching the show properly. Chemistry sells everything to some and turns blind and/or deaf like no other, it seems. That "perfection" never existed. This season has gone to great lengths to show why Patrick and Richie should IMO never get together romantically again. And I would not be willing to accept seeing Richie as the sweet, trustworthy but pathetic rebound who’s never allowed to truly move on, or some token secondary choice who gets to pick up Patrick’s pieces and make him see the wrongness of his ways and choices. Richie shouldn’t be the one made to feel or look that way. I actually might have minded Richie's limited screen time a little less if looking back, a fair chunk of it hadn’t been essentially wasted on furthering the semblance of a non-existent love triangle over a guy who’s far from a prize for him, but this is Patrick's world being looked into.
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Post by Difficult Diva on Mar 24, 2015 20:15:11 GMT -5
I was taking a look back at how folks reviewed the first season, in comparison to what resulted for the second. My thoughts still haven't changed. None of those things really describe Richie, but for a lot of people he Latino, so he must be thuggish. And Kevin is the pretty, perfect, white boy, which is why of course, you see so many folks thinking Kevin and Patrick are 'destiny', even though Kevin is a liar and a cheat who manipulated his employee into having sex at the office. Cause they are the foundations of a long lasting relationship and a boyfriend you can trust. It's pretty sad to say, but I really do agree with you in your opinion on why Richie and Kevin are seen in that way by some viewers. Kevin really hasn't been honest. Not at all. Either to his boyfriend, who moved his entire life to be with him in the same city, to Patrick - who is his employee and lastly be honest with himself. All the times he was flirting, inappropiately with Patrick, he was waiting on him to get the clue to make the first move. He already let him know about the "problems" with his long distance relationship, but Patrick didn't take the bait. That was before Patrick thought that he had another chance with Richie. Weeks go by and Kevin must have known that something was up with Patrick. He was coming in late, probably with a spring in his step due to Richie AND he probably wasn't open to the flirting anymore. Patrick didn't even know that Jon had permanently made the move to SF, until Kevin (and Jon) "accidentally" ran into Pat, his friends and his boyfriend in the park that day. None of their interactions have been on the up and up. It's been one manipulation after the next. Some viewers can say that since the boyfriend wasn't shown all the time, that he doesn't really matter to the future status of Kevin and Patrick, but he does. He's the big pink elephant in the room. He's in Kevin's life. The idea that Patrick would be more at ease, in being the other man, booty call, side piece to his boss over being romantically involved with a Latino barber is just really sad and maybe the real eye opening statement about how some folks interpret the "perfect man" persona. Kevin's supposedly the "perfect man" in regards to pedigree, education, status, money, looks and ethnicity.
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dalia
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Post by dalia on Mar 24, 2015 21:12:55 GMT -5
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Post by kevvoi on Mar 25, 2015 8:23:21 GMT -5
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Post by leemil on Mar 25, 2015 9:18:34 GMT -5
Damn that sucks. No cucumber or looking... Disappointing but I cant say that im too surprised.
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Post by sunshine0786 on Mar 25, 2015 16:55:42 GMT -5
At least they're going to do a movie, give the show a real ending. Not many cancelled shows get that opportunity.
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Post by Difficult Diva on Mar 25, 2015 18:19:10 GMT -5
Well, I'm definitely going to miss my winter fix of seeing San Francisco, through the eyes of Pato and his people (even sometimes Kevin) on Sunday nights. I really do not place blame on HBO for chosing to cancel the series. The series didn't "speak" to the majority of the audience, that the network thought that it would speak to. At times, I felt like some of the audience didn't want to hear or see what was being shown. At least, we'll have the tv movie (if it happens) and the dvds to add to our home collections.
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Post by Difficult Diva on Mar 26, 2015 7:13:15 GMT -5
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2015 18:04:47 GMT -5
At times, I felt like some of the audience didn't want to hear or see what was being shown. Only 'at times'? Sad and too bad considering the scarcity in the TV landscape of the show's subject matter(s) as well as technical and crafty work, but far from unexpected. At least there's something left to look forward to.
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Post by kevvoi on Mar 26, 2015 18:50:49 GMT -5
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trini
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living and loving life
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Post by trini on Mar 26, 2015 21:01:42 GMT -5
Finally finished the season overall I thought the season was good so I'm sad to hear that it is getting cancelled.While I liked the show I do understand why so many couldn't get into the slower paced indie feel of the show, I think this show would have world better if it was on Netflicks where you could have watched the full season at once. “Looking” at that pesky reality settling in like an iceberg in the middle of the ocean. What a concept, throwing ‘I love you’s and moving in before even actually getting to know each other. That was bound to end well. This didn’t even feel like a thundering crash to me (and to anyone who wasn’t as delusional as Patrick, really), but rather like a natural progression of a faultily built train both characters set in motion. I can hardly fault Kevin for things that should have been so obvious; they certainly were to everyone else. I had to laugh at Patrick’s dumbfounded reaction to Kevin saying he was glad he cheated on Jon. Freaking priceless. It took just one pang of reality to get the both of them to rehash their whole (individual and dual) messy history all on their own. No outside parties they'd ignored or tried to prove wrong up to now to remind them of their shaky foundations and of the fact that they didn’t seek to know anything about what they each want within the relationship. Here I am, feeling sorry for neither of these fools. I like the end for both Dom and Agustin. Dom might not be as happy as Agustin, but I think he has a better understanding of himself and what he needs to do. Paradoxically, I think that by putting some distance somewhat between them, Dom and Doris brought an additional element of selflessness within their relationship. I hope it works for each of them. I could have done without Patrick running to Richie yet again, even though seeing him for 2 seconds is always welcome. Suddenly he realizes that believing in ‘love!’ isn’t everything and that trust might end up being even more grounding in a relationship. Yes, Richie is the trustworthy and reliable one. Now, get your haircut if you must and leave him alone. Nice job telling it like it is, Looking. I have a couple of gripes, but still enjoyed a lot in the writing and construction of these episodes. Hopefully the show gets that elusive third season. Okay that fight between Patrick and Kevin was epic, it was what this show does best real, raw and honest. I didn't feel sorry for Patrick at all he was ignoring the truth and overcompensating by moving way too fast. I think he turned this relationship into an epic passionate love affair so he could justified his behaviour. Not surprised that Patrick ran back to Richie, I think through out the season there where little scenes that indicated that Patrick reconnecting with Richie was not solely for platonic reasons, he wanted Richie as his fall back guy. I did like the development of all the characters over this season. Agustin's was a nice surprised.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2015 0:29:12 GMT -5
Not surprised that Patrick ran back to Richie, I think through out the season there where little scenes that indicated that Patrick reconnecting with Richie was not solely for platonic reasons, he wanted Richie as his fall back guy. Aside from the overwhelming amount of signs indicating throughout the season and this final episode that the Patrick/Kevin thing was DOA, I’ll admit that I did think Richie’s been all over this season. It’s just that since I don’t ever want this Richie with this Patrick, as we know them, romantically, the way his non-screen time appearances have been significant may not necessarily please me. And were there a 3rd and more seasons, I can see where it might be going. The fake Richie in episode 1 wasn’t needed, but it was there. The one time Patrick virulently insulted Kevin was in response to the mention of his cheating on Richie. The escapulario, symbol of faith and, well, Richie, being in the “valuables” box and as immediate response to Kevin’s final request to Patrick to give his trust, the determining factor to ground the relationship. Etc. I saw it all, I just don’t quite like it all. And as great as these writers and show runners are, it probably would have taken me more than one additional season to stop not liking it. I was taking a look back at how folks reviewed the first season, in comparison to what resulted for the second. My thoughts still haven't changed. None of those things really describe Richie, but for a lot of people he Latino, so he must be thuggish. And Kevin is the pretty, perfect, white boy, which is why of course, you see so many folks thinking Kevin and Patrick are 'destiny', even though Kevin is a liar and a cheat who manipulated his employee into having sex at the office. Cause they are the foundations of a long lasting relationship and a boyfriend you can trust. It's pretty sad to say, but I really do agree with you in your opinion on why Richie and Kevin are seen in that way by some viewers. I liked how the show has been acknowledging this, particularly more openly in the last episode. Did you notice the big poster next to Patrick at the beginning of the episode that said "Be together. Not the same", as he was symbolically locked out of Kevin's new found home/heaven? That was setting the tone.
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cheerios
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If we could decide who we loved, it would be much simpler, but less magical.
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Post by cheerios on Mar 28, 2015 2:17:37 GMT -5
I disappointed that the show got canceled, I thought it was getting really good. It was honest, complicated, raw, funny, and interesting. I am glad that there is at least going to be a wrap up movie.
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carld2
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Post by carld2 on Mar 28, 2015 17:44:42 GMT -5
I was taking a look back at how folks reviewed the first season, in comparison to what resulted for the second. My thoughts still haven't changed. I liked how the show has been acknowledging this, particularly more openly in the last episode. Did you notice the big poster next to Patrick at the beginning of the episode that said "Be together. Not the same", as he was symbolically locked out of Kevin's new found home/heaven? That was setting the tone. If the show had actually acknowledged it, instead of mostly focusing on white characters (even moreso in season 2), then I'd have more respect for them. As it is, I think they were trying to have it both ways. I'm sure that Patrick and Kevin did have a lot of support because they're white, but I think there were other factors. For one, Russell Tovey. For another, it's more exciting to see a story about an affair than to see a story about a saintly barber and the perpetually blathering screwup who has no real ability to understand Richie or treat him as anything but a fetish or an ideal, but might someday, so keep on hoping. I just don't think Patrick was a compelling enough character to lead a show. I don't think Jonathan Groff was the right actor for the role. I also don't think Patrick/Richie or Patrick/Kevin were compelling enough for a triangle, if it can even be called that. The only thing I found to be compelling about Patrick and Kevin was that Groff and Tovey looked hot when they were making out and rutting onscreen. But others felt differently, and I doubt it was just white skin they responded to. I think it was likely because Kevin was an actual character. Richie was never allowed to be a character. I think that two-hander said it all about the show's idea of Patrick/Richie - adorably awkward Patrick and the patient, kind man who was trying to help him find himself. All I saw was a cardboard figure who had to tolerate Patrick talking, talking some more, being patronizing and condescending toward him and his life, and then pausing for a few sexual encounters. Not to mention the show's odd decision to repeatedly treat Richie and his ethnicity and culture as a fetish and an oddity. I never wanted Patrick to mature so he could finally get Richie. I wanted Richie to move on and find a better man. If the show had done more with subjects like the tension between Richie and Agustin, instead of Patrick's gay version of Ally McBeal, I don't know if ratings would have been any better, but I know I would have cared more.
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Post by Difficult Diva on Mar 29, 2015 5:14:23 GMT -5
I liked how the show has been acknowledging this, particularly more openly in the last episode. Did you notice the big poster next to Patrick at the beginning of the episode that said "Be together. Not the same", as he was symbolically locked out of Kevin's new found home/heaven? That was setting the tone. If the show had actually acknowledged it, instead of mostly focusing on white characters (even moreso in season 2), then I'd have more respect for them. As it is, I think they were trying to have it both ways. I'm sure that Patrick and Kevin did have a lot of support because they're white, but I think there were other factors. For one, Russell Tovey. For another, it's more exciting to see a story about an affair than to see a story about a saintly barber and the perpetually blathering screwup who has no real ability to understand Richie or treat him as anything but a fetish or an ideal, but might someday, so keep on hoping.I just don't think Patrick was a compelling enough character to lead a show. I don't think Jonathan Groff was the right actor for the role. I also don't think Patrick/Richie or Patrick/Kevin were compelling enough for a triangle, if it can even be called that. The only thing I found to be compelling about Patrick and Kevin was that Groff and Tovey looked hot when they were making out and rutting onscreen. But others felt differently, and I doubt it was just white skin they responded to. I think it was likely because Kevin was an actual character. Richie was never allowed to be a character.I think that two-hander said it all about the show's idea of Patrick/Richie - adorably awkward Patrick and the patient, kind man who was trying to help him find himself. All I saw was a cardboard figure who had to tolerate Patrick talking, talking some more, being patronizing and condescending toward him and his life, and then pausing for a few sexual encounters. Not to mention the show's odd decision to repeatedly treat Richie and his ethnicity and culture as a fetish and an oddity.I never wanted Patrick to mature so he could finally get Richie. I wanted Richie to move on and find a better man. If the show had done more with subjects like the tension between Richie and Agustin, instead of Patrick's gay version of Ally McBeal, I don't know if ratings would have been any better, but I know I would have cared more. So, in your mind, a patient and kind man, is a cardboard saintly figure? Patrick did come to understand Richie, but it was too late for him to even make any attempt to get Richie to trust him again, to want to be with him romantically. Richie was a character. He just wasn't an "exciting one" for some viewers. There wasn't the appeal, fantasy of trying to make him "change for love", like I kept seeing being wished for Patrick and Kevin. Kevin is also a fetish. The sexy, "complicated", established, successful and taken white guy, that will "change for love". I agree with you. The excitement and draw about Kevin and Patrick was based on seeing Groff/Tovey nakedly rutting on screen, in this affair, with the hopes of seeing Patrick getting his relationship and seeing Kevin devoting himself to him, in a way that he couldn't do with Jon. But, there was definitely a strong and hard sense of Kevin's whiteness, his education, job and financial position being "better and more perfect" for Patrick, than Richie's otherness and him being seen/viewed as a fetish. How some viewers have been having issues, in what Kevin had said to Patrick, during their fight, revealed to me, that they had the same thought that Patrick had about Kevin: that he had fully chosen Patrick and that there would be no possibility of cheating or other men in their lives together. Some viewers, just like Patrick, were absolutely shocked to find out, that Kevin had been cheating on Jon, with other men, besides Patrick. Absolutely shocked. Which doesn't make any sense, but it wasn't based on rational thinking. Patrick and some of the audience, didn’t want to know anything about Jon and how Kevin treated him and their relationship. They just didn't care, until Patrick and Kevin, finally started to talk real with one another.
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talula
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Post by talula on Mar 29, 2015 7:35:46 GMT -5
well, this is really disappointing we will not get a third season, but i'm glad they gonna make wrap up movie,it's better than nothing, hope all the guys will be in it,anyone knows when they plan to shoot the film?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2015 10:08:15 GMT -5
There was acknowledgment of the racial, class and cultural thing from the show a handful of times, what there wasn't is moralizing, some kind of epiphany, giving a full picture/lecture, or dealing with it at once through its characters. One reason is the construct of the show. I think the moment we get from the show a full picture with little to no blank spaces left about something, like we did with Kevin and his relationship with Patrick, then the chapter on it is probably getting closed.
It’s also all happening through the eyes of Patrick, the often oblivious, hardly self-aware (just look at his shock over obvious things about Kevin in the last episode) one with the latent prejudices and fetishism issues. The way it was acknowledged is not without sense within that context. While the racial, class and cultural aspect might not have been much of a factor for some Patrick/Kevin fans, it was for Patrick himself (and to some extent Kevin), and that the show did make references to. That’s what I was alluding to more, though I also believe it’d be really naive to think that it carries no significance for some of the fans as well. Many even within the LGBT community itself do not try to hide this kind of mindset; it is a real thing. I can certainly understand why the frustration stemming from that and the very white second season we had might turn some people off. As a removed viewer, I had my own issues with some of it. But the show for the most part was told from a certain character’s viewpoint and was never going to be everything to everyone. In the story they chose to tell, the way they chose to tell it, they were mostly doing a decent job.
I wouldn’t say that Patrick needs saving. He never had to change and I doubt he would even feel all that unhappy if he never did; he’d just have to find a more commitment-friendly Kevin and believe in his happily ever after. But his status quo would likely make his journey more frustratingly stagnant and him increasingly unappealing as a character if there was no growth there somewhere. Yet even without said growth, he still isn't all that untrue to life on that standpoint, within and outside of the community. However, if the story of first self-reveal then self-discovery and growth is, like I've often thought, what show runners did intend to tell throughout more seasons, my preference would also be with Richie being far away and actually enjoying his own life, not just patiently standing on the sidelines and picking up someone's pieces. What I’ll never really get however is the saintly or cardboard rather dismissive thing in regards to Richie. I see a proud guy who recognizes his shortcomings but also tries to be decent to others and to himself, and a character whom we just still have to know more about, particularly in the second season where Patrick, who is still our lens on his story, was trying to invest his all into someone else.
Wishing for a different lead and focus is a matter of preference and a hardly unsupported opinion for this show. But I still don’t really get the Ally McBeal references. Patrick is neurotic and narcissistic for sure, but I see no excessive quirks, self talking, evasions into singsong lands or hallucinations, from my recollection of that show. There's a lot that's unappealing about these characters if they properly look at themselves in the mirror like we look at them through the show, and Patrick might not be flawed in the (sometimes in your face or “edgy”) way that passes the entertainment value test for a lot of viewers, but it's not at all without foundation in reality.
I have an appreciation for looking into those mirrors that don't quite fill all the blanks, happen to enjoy some relevant matters in substance and presentation outside of Patrick, and find it unfortunate that they didn’t get to tell the story they IMO deserved a shot at more extensively telling. In the end, we all had/have our way of watching and viewing the show, often based on expectations or lack thereof.
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carld2
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Post by carld2 on Mar 29, 2015 11:34:39 GMT -5
So, in your mind, a patient and kind man, is a cardboard saintly figure? Patrick did come to understand Richie, but it was too late for him to even make any attempt to get Richie to trust him again, to want to be with him romantically. Richie was a character. He just wasn't an "exciting one" for some viewers. There wasn't the appeal, fantasy of trying to make him "change for love", like I kept seeing being wished for Patrick and Kevin. Kevin is also a fetish. The sexy, "complicated", established, successful and taken white guy, that will "change for love". For me it's not about being a patient and kind man making him a cardboard figure, it's about him making a handful of appearances and most of those being solely about Patrick's development. Even issues that shouldn't have been about Patrick - like the tension with Agustin - were ultimately made about Patrick. He was never allowed to be his own person. When I say fetish, I mean things like Patrick leering over Richie having an uncut penis, or Patrick gawping at the egg future-reading Richie did, all the, "What are they saying?" and so on. It came across to me like a white person tee-heeing to himself for having his first POC boyfriend. It made me uncomfortable. I never felt like Kevin got that treatment.
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carld2
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Post by carld2 on Mar 29, 2015 11:38:13 GMT -5
Wishing for a different lead and focus is a matter of preference and a hardly unsupported opinion for this show. But I still don’t really get the Ally McBeal references. Patrick is neurotic and narcissistic for sure, but I see no excessive quirks, self talking, evasions into singsong lands or hallucinations, from my recollection of that show. Ally McBeal moments are characters making fools of themselves in public in part because they are screwed up messes, and viewers being invited to chuckle fondly because they are so adorable. His "meet cute" first interactions with Kevin and his hideous date where he told the man he'd tried to get sucked off in the park hours earlier are Ally McBeal haha moments. I think it takes a lot of work to make that type of thing tolerable, and it didn't work for me here, as it never did with her either.
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Post by Difficult Diva on Mar 29, 2015 14:24:52 GMT -5
So, in your mind, a patient and kind man, is a cardboard saintly figure? Patrick did come to understand Richie, but it was too late for him to even make any attempt to get Richie to trust him again, to want to be with him romantically. Richie was a character. He just wasn't an "exciting one" for some viewers. There wasn't the appeal, fantasy of trying to make him "change for love", like I kept seeing being wished for Patrick and Kevin. Kevin is also a fetish. The sexy, "complicated", established, successful and taken white guy, that will "change for love". For me it's not about being a patient and kind man making him a cardboard figure, it's about him making a handful of appearances and most of those being solely about Patrick's development. Even issues that shouldn't have been about Patrick - like the tension with Agustin - were ultimately made about Patrick. He was never allowed to be his own person. When I say fetish, I mean things like Patrick leering over Richie having an uncut penis, or Patrick gawping at the egg future-reading Richie did, all the, "What are they saying?" and so on. It came across to me like a white person tee-heeing to himself for having his first POC boyfriend. It made me uncomfortable. I never felt like Kevin got that treatment. Wait a minute. Kevin was given the very same treatment. We, the audience saw Kevin through Patrick’s eyes/point of view. Kevin got more scenes, this season, because he was the main guy in Patrick’s life during this time. From all we saw, Kevin doesn't have any friends of his own in San Francisco, outside of what he established with Jon. He's more "isolated" then Richie. We got a glimpse of Richie and his life, through Patrick’s eyes, in this past season. From the two cousins, to his new boyfriend, Brady and to how Agustin realized that Richie and his feelings, shouldn't trivialized/used by Patrick. Also the "tee-heeing" of Patrick's behavior towards Richie was supposed to make you feel uncomfortable. Richie's character is based on human traits and Patrick doesn't know or understand how to speak Spanish, nor did he understand that he was more than an "uncut penis", during their initial flirtation. This is something, that sadly, lots of people of color, regardless if they're straight, gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgender or cisgender have gone through, when they date a white person.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2015 15:13:17 GMT -5
When I say fetish, I mean things like Patrick leering over Richie having an uncut penis, or Patrick gawping at the egg future-reading Richie did, all the, "What are they saying?" and so on. It came across to me like a white person tee-heeing to himself for having his first POC boyfriend. It made me uncomfortable. I never felt like Kevin got that treatment. Well, I think that was the point. The comfort thing for Patrick in regards to Richie vs. Kevin was obviously a big part of the story. I also believe that when it comes to Patrick, the neurosis and clumsy ignorance weren't really meant to just be about adorable quirks. Richie certainly didn't always find it all endearing enough to put up with, but it was still intentionally presented as part of the very flawed character's persona, notably based on his WASP-y background. Viewers are free to take it or leave it, and many often didn't find it cute either, as evidenced by the fact that we can find numerous people rooting for Richie, but away from Patrick, something I believe the show runners are aware of. This was just an ongoing process/journey that's getting cut short early.
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