softfurbear
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Post by softfurbear on Jul 8, 2009 0:21:07 GMT -5
davedoty, in answer to your question I personally was a Doctor Who fan before Torchwood. Although in general I'm a sci-fi fan, I'd never heard of Doctor Who until I lived in England and had several friends who were huge fans. I first started watching the NEW series and then Torchwood when it came out. Each show is fantastic in it's own way* and I still plan on watching the classic series someday ;D *although Torchwood holds a special place in my heart as a fandom that doesn't require slash to see the leading man with another man
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Post by davedoty on Jul 8, 2009 0:43:50 GMT -5
Just keep in mind the original series ran for over 700 episodes, so make sure you've got a comfy chair.
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Post by illimen on Jul 8, 2009 1:31:40 GMT -5
Captain Jack Harkness and Ianto Jones in Torchwood : Children of Earth Day Two.
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softfurbear
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this lovely avatar is by evilgeniuslady
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Post by softfurbear on Jul 8, 2009 1:37:32 GMT -5
Just keep in mind the original series ran for over 700 episodes, so make sure you've got a comfy chair. LOL... hence the "someday". However, it is a goal! Thank you for the videos illimen! Btw, does anyone know if they will be making any episodes of "Torchwood Declassified" for this season?
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nana29
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Post by nana29 on Jul 8, 2009 10:37:00 GMT -5
Btw, does anyone know if they will be making any episodes of "Torchwood Declassified" for this season? BBC America is going to have a 15 minutes "Inside Look" after each Torchwood Episode, since the show is going to run from 9-10:15 which hopefully means less editing by the network. not sure how long usually Torchwood Declassified is, maybe one of the U.K. viewers can let us know, i would love to see them. they usually include them in the DVD set? right, and that is going to be released at the end of the month. Spoilers for ep2: Loved it!! Gwen was awesome, Rhys was awesome!! Ianto smart and clever found Jack all on his own with the help from his sister ;D I'm Lois sticks around more for the next series. Though from the upcoming previews i'm worries about Jack and Ianto's family. oh! and a nakey JB always good!
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softfurbear
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this lovely avatar is by evilgeniuslady
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Post by softfurbear on Jul 8, 2009 12:11:35 GMT -5
not sure how long usually Torchwood Declassified is, maybe one of the U.K. viewers can let us know, i would love to see them. they usually include them in the DVD set? Thanks for mentioning "Inside Look", I'd forgotten about that. The Torchwood Declassified episodes that I've watched have each been 10 mins and yes, so far have been included in the DVD sets. I'm guessing "Inside Look" will take it's place/cover the same things? If you want to watch the ones done for season one and two you shouldn't have any problem finding them on You Tube.
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carld2
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Post by carld2 on Jul 8, 2009 15:14:42 GMT -5
Also, forgot to comment on the rest of your post. I don't see your comment about Moffat being an "exculsionary" writer at all. He's written some of the most popular episodes of the series to date, not just among Who fans, but the general public. When everyone knew the new show had "made it" was when schoolyards were full of kids running around playing "are you my mummy?" the day after the episode aired. Diversity is all well and good, but a bloated, swollen franchise tends to implode on itself. I'm just not sure how long a franchise can keep three (perceived four) shows in the public eye before people get sick of overexposure. Look how much people complain about overexposure of CSI or Law&Order. CSI managed to maintain three popular shows for many years. They have each experienced some erosion but I think that's due to the problems on the shows (mainly CSI with all the cast changes). L&O was the same way. I think the Doctor Who shows are different because they have far fewer episodes a year. This is a way to keep viewers sated. Like this gap year between Tennant and Smith. How many viewers will be tempted to just lose all interest, but are now staying involved because they have Torchwood and SJA to tide them over? Moffat used to be a good writer, but I thought the two-parter about the library was the worst type of Doctor Who writing, very ponderous, very much recycling his greatest hits, with very unlikeable characters (what a waste of Alex Kingston) and one of the most insulting "happy endings" I have ever seen.
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Post by illimen on Jul 8, 2009 21:57:31 GMT -5
Captain Jack Harkness and Ianto Jones in Torchwood : Children of Earth Day Three.
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Post by davedoty on Jul 8, 2009 23:36:37 GMT -5
Moffat used to be a good writer, but I thought the two-parter about the library was the worst type of Doctor Who writing, very ponderous, very much recycling his greatest hits, with very unlikeable characters (what a waste of Alex Kingston) and one of the most insulting "happy endings" I have ever seen. I agree that Silence in the Library was not his best work, but it's a bit premature to write him off as someone who "used to be a good writer" based on a single story, don't you think? Do you really think that people are incapable of writing an off story without becoming a has-been hack for the rest of their career? And I know lots of people who love that story. I (and now you) seem to be in a minority from what I can tell. I often want to shout "STFU about River Song!" during fan discussions. Which again, hardly goes to an argument that he's an "exclusionary" writer, unless an "inclusionary" writer is one who manages to please every single reader, every single time.
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Post by sheepiefarm on Jul 9, 2009 16:05:01 GMT -5
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2009 16:43:26 GMT -5
Sheepie: I thought you had posted a spoiler because of all that space under your post and I was like cool something to read while I wait for July 30th. Then I realized you hadn't posted any and my heart broke a little.
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Post by sheepiefarm on Jul 9, 2009 17:16:58 GMT -5
Sheepie: I thought you had posted a spoiler because of all that space under your post and I was like cool something to read while I wait for July 30th. Then I realized you hadn't posted any and my heart broke a little. ;D - it does look like that doesn't it Didn't post any spoilers cos I just didn't want to tempt anyone into reading them. I didn't know what was coming in this epi and I'm glad - it just made things resonate much more.
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carld2
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Post by carld2 on Jul 9, 2009 18:40:35 GMT -5
His other stories had the same elements. Mary Sues who were usually boiled down to their romantic relationships. Two of them were in love with the Doctor all through some backstory we barely or never saw, and of course they had to die. Big scare quotes and attempts at catchphrases.
Moffat may have his good points, but as a showrunner, I'm wary of what is to come, especially since I keep hearing so many act like he is already a legend and already much better than Russell Davies. When that type of mindset starts, where the creative name becomes more important to fans than the show itself, I think the show suffers (I think that's one of the reasons why the Joss Whedon shows began to fall apart).
I wanted to thank everyone for the heads up about the latest episode. I don't think I'll be watching. I enjoyed it while it lasted.
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Post by illimen on Jul 9, 2009 20:51:21 GMT -5
Captain Jack Harkness and Ianto Jones in Torchwood : Children of Earth Day Four.
Today has a lot of scenes with this couple,and very sad!
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Post by tw31988 on Jul 9, 2009 23:40:17 GMT -5
i knew there was a Torchwood thread! i didn't dreamed about it! XD
*****spoilers ahead******
(sorry, don't know how to make them transparent XD)
I'm just heartbroken! how??....i mean....i know how, it's just....how?!!! How can he be.... darn, i can't even say it! =(
The ways he said i love you and that Jack will forget about him.....that just killed me =(
Spoiler text color change -Bchick
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dalia
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Max & Iago Forever
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Post by dalia on Jul 10, 2009 1:07:47 GMT -5
just finished watching Torchwood Day 4 and...
this is the worst the WORST possible thing they could have done. i knew that pretty much anyone was expendable after last season, but why did they have to take Ianto? i mean how many people were attached to him? i don't even think i will carry on watching this show without him. he was my favorite character and now this show is over for me. i don't even feel like watching Day five anymore. and i can't stop crying... i haven't been this heartbroken over a tv character since Archie Kennedy died on Horatio Hornblower (but at least i knew that was coming)
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Post by davedoty on Jul 10, 2009 11:40:19 GMT -5
SOOO many thoughts.
First, talking about the episode itself outside the Janto Firestorm: OMFG! That may have been the most tense, riveting thing RTS has written for ANY of the Who shows, period. Un-believable. He's set the bar VERY high if he's going to top this come Christmas.
Now, Janto, broken into bits:
1) The relationship: I've always felt at odds with much of Janto fandom, as I've talked about before. I felt like I wasn't even watching the same show as them. I think the more distant view of the pair this season, keeping secrets, not really discussing their issues or problems, mostly just, well, F-buddies, is the way I've seen them. This season seems to suggest that that's what they've been, but becoming something more sort of snuck up on them. It's entirely possible that this relationship was doomed to fail. Flame as you must, but I think a lot of disappointment from Janto fans comes from them reading the relationship they wanted to see instead of what was there. I feel like this has given us a great, logical ending to the relationship as I saw it, which suggests that what I saw might have been closer to what was actually being put in by the people who wrote the series.
2) One of, if not THE, central conflicts of their relationship was the fact that Jack was going to live after Ianto was dead. The show was NOT going to last until Ianto died of old age. That problem could only be faced by Ianto dying young. I realize most Janto fans probably wanted them to pay lip service to that issue without confronting it, but being upset because they paid off the setup is a little silly.
3) Right from the pilot, and reaffirmed as recently as yesterday, was the idea that Torchwood agents have short lives and die young. Over half of the agents introduced in the pilot have died. Gwen has gone from being the rookie to being the senior non-immortal agent in the span of three years. Again, I'm sure many wanted them to pay lip service to the idea while ignoring it in practice, but getting upset because the product did what it said on the box is silly. For me, the problem isn't killing Ianto, it will be if the show comes back and doesn't put a big bull's-eye on Gwen. THAT will be cheating the setup. Moreover, this is most DEFINITELY in line with the way all of the straight (or Torchwood-straight, anyway) characters have been treated.
4) British shows in general have much higher cast turnover. The Star Trek ideal of a stable cast from beginning to end really doesn't even exist. All of my favorite British shows have a lot of turnover, and most of the action/adventure/SF shows do it violently.
5) Tragic lovers dying in each others' arms are a trope as old as literature. Those tragic stories usually have MORE power and lasting presence, in fact. If we're going to say we don't want the positive, happy, send-a-nice-message gays, well, surely we shouldn't demand exclusively happy endings.
6) Finally, and I know I'm inviting angry reactions with this one, so do what you must, but letting shippers hold the show hostage against the stories you want to tell is a recipe for disaster. You wind up with garbage like the CloneDoc/Rose, or the endless Ross and Rachel nonsense. If the story you want to tell has a logical conclusion (and, like it or not, this WAS a logical conclusion for Janto), then dragging it out to appease an angry segment of the fanbase is only going to result in a lacklustre show you're heart isn't in, which isn't going to suit ANYONE.
Of course, there may be a miracle resurrection in a few hours that makes all of us, both frantic screechers and defenders, blush in our premature posturings. But if this is the end, I'd rather have one of these than a dozen go-nowhere gay Ross-and-Rachels for people to sigh over blandly.
Okay, flame-retardant gear on: Go!
P.S to Gays of Daytime: I usually write my posts on AfterElton and copy them here, but I did it the other way this time, because I knew my login would expire over there while I typed. ;D
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carld2
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Post by carld2 on Jul 10, 2009 17:51:48 GMT -5
With a cast of only a small handful of people, I don't think it is about "shippers" so much as it is about those who want to enjoy the show. I don't care about Ianto/Jack. If they'd broken up, I would have understood. They had plenty of baggage which could have been used. I care about Ianto. I think he added a great deal of humor and personality to two leads who are often very dull, especially Gwen. The show only began to work for me when the Gwen Gwen Gwen All About Gwen material was dialed down.
I don't care about watching a show which is mainly Jack and Gwen, with anyone else killed off for shock value. Ianto was sacrificed so we could have a big sadface moment for Jack, and then he will be like Tosh, like Owen, and just a memory, a memory of good actors and characters who had far more mileage left in them. I would say far more than the two who are left behind.
Spoiler text color change -Bchick
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Post by Bonobochick on Jul 10, 2009 22:00:43 GMT -5
Reminder to please spoiler tag all thoughts of Torchwood: Children of Earth until it airs on BBCAmerica in the USA.
I've seen the first 4 parts and have the fifth to still watch but so far my thoughts are similar to davedoty, though not entirely the same.
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Post by illimen on Jul 11, 2009 1:34:21 GMT -5
Captain Jack Harkness and Ianto Jones in Torchwood : Children of Earth Day Five.
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Post by Bonobochick on Jul 11, 2009 2:33:26 GMT -5
I thought it was a bit anti-climactic, even with Jack sacrificing his grandson. Great series, to me, the strongest writing of the series in entirety.
I was glad the Prime Minister got his. I didn't like Frobischer and his actions were questionable at best throughout the series but the PM doublecrossing him like that was beyond disgusting. Hell, even that eugenics-lite bitch who wanted to save ""the best" children made me grudgingly approve of her disgust for the PM as well.
I was iffy on Lois and Bridget when the series first started but they won me over by the end.
I know some are still bummed about Ianto, but for me, Torchwood was more than the one pairing. Besides, my tears were shed with the death of the original Captain Jack Harkness.I read the AE recap of ep 5. I think he missed a few things in the recap that were important to the story but for those who want a rundown of it along with others' comments: www.afterelton.com/blog/momohassan/torchwood-children-earth-episode-five Also, digitalspy UK had a write-up commentary of each episode. Here's the link for "Day One" and the other days can be found there too: www.digitalspy.co.uk/cult/a163726/torchwoods-day-one-the-verdict.html
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valso
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Post by valso on Jul 11, 2009 4:40:31 GMT -5
I'm not happy at all with Torchwood Season 3 and this doesn't depend on the fact that I'm a Janto fan. Sure I liked Jack & Ianto together but they certainly weren't my best OTP man on man in the world, being a sci-fi fan coming from BSG and DWho I started watching TW out of curiosity but I wasn't really impressed with Season 1, the only reason I found that keep me coming back was that I fall in love with Ianto character and can't get enough of him on the show. He was for me the real heart of TW, the one funny and serious at the same time that with a line could change an entire scene or save an horrible episode.
I should say that Season 3 is most likely better written than the other two, but killing Ianto for me mean they killed the emotional connection I had with the show, so I'm sure I'm not going to enjoy the TW as I did before and frankly I hope there won't be a Season 4.
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carld2
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Post by carld2 on Jul 11, 2009 5:02:59 GMT -5
I agree. I don't care about fanbases, or making some statement on couples. Ianto was a very interesting character in his own right. I think Ianto was one of the only things which helped save the show from tedious angst overload which follows Gwen and Jack everywhere. I would have rather seen one of them written out. With them at the helm I don't think I will be interested in another season.
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Post by ivaniv on Jul 11, 2009 5:20:12 GMT -5
Just finished watching the 5th part. This TW series was no doubt Russell T Davies' masterpiece, up there with Queer As Folk, IMO. I found this miniseries with one story running through all episodes much much better than the previous Alien of the Week approach. I won't comment on the story itself till it's safe to write without spoiler tags, for now only this:
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maya
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Post by maya on Jul 11, 2009 5:30:27 GMT -5
Carld2 and Valso have already said what I think of Torchwood CoE.
Ianto was the character I enjoyed the most in TW and I wasn't so blind to think that he wouldn't die in the serie end, but I think he deserve a better demise to underline is exit from the show. His death was settled in few scenes and this is a really deprecating way of getting rid of a fanfavourite character. I'm pretty sure that there will be a Season 4, RTD has created a great buzz with Ianto's death and the annihilation of Captain Jack and at first he will collect the prize of this carnage but in the long run I'm not sure if this choice would pay.
Luckily I have no obligation to keep watching cause for me Torchwood ends with CoE.
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