Coronation Street - General Discussion

[atlanticslide]

I'm not sure I agree that Todd was thrown to the curb other than by Sean. Eileen was clearly struggling with supporting both Sean and Todd, since she cares about them both as is sympathetic towards Sean, but when push really came to shove and Sean was forcing her to choose between them, she wouldn't throw Todd out as Sean wanted and never said anything negative or angry to Todd when Sean was in earshot. I think she was just doing her best in a really awkward situation, and I loved her smackdown of Phelan when he was being nasty about Todd (too bad she took him back so soon after). She's annoyed with Todd about the situation, but I get the sense that it's a fleeting annoyance that'll pass soon enough.

I also like how there are others clearly on Todds side, like Sarah telling him that he deserves someone like Billy (though, sidenote, how did she find out about them? Only Tracy and Eileen knew about them by that point), or Tracy's barely contained glee when she found out Billy had split with Sean and marching him into the flower shop to tell Todd that Billy was now single. So at least Todd's not totally on his own.

And I think part of what makes Sean's behavior more tolerable to me is that while I think we're meant to sympathize with him, I don't think we're meant to find his winging acceptable - Phelan snapped at him, Eileen snapped at both him and Todd, the bosses at the factory (whose names I can't remember) seemed kind of irritated that he called out sick from work because of his "broken heart," Eva snapped at him for whining about his own problems while she was trying to talk about hers, etc. It's easier for me to find it amusing instead of annoying when I feel like the show isn't condoning the bad behavior or expecting us to think it's okay.

I think I'm in the minority in that I don't think Anthony Cotton's acting is all that bad (I'm the opposite on Finn vs. Sean - I absolutely hate Joe Gill's acting and am really happy that he's not onscreen more, while I generally don't mind Anthony Cotton and like Sean well enough).

[cheerios]

Aug 9, 2016 21:13:12 GMT -5 atlanticslide said:

I'm not sure I agree that Todd was thrown to the curb other than by Sean. Eileen was clearly struggling with supporting both Sean and Todd, since she cares about them both as is sympathetic towards Sean, but when push really came to shove and Sean was forcing her to choose between them, she wouldn't throw Todd out as Sean wanted and never said anything negative or angry to Todd when Sean was in earshot. I think she was just doing her best in a really awkward situation, and I loved her smackdown of Phelan when he was being nasty about Todd (too bad she took him back so soon after). She's annoyed with Todd about the situation, but I get the sense that it's a fleeting annoyance that'll pass soon enough.

Todd may be many things, but he is still her son and she loves him. She's just annoyed with him at the moment. And she's blinded by her love of Sean and her hurt over what has happen to her home. Plus it doesn't help that Phelan is being an evil snake blinding her to his true colors.

I also like how there are others clearly on Todds side, like Sarah telling him that he deserves someone like Billy (though, sidenote, how did she find out about them? Only Tracy and Eileen knew about them by that point), or Tracy's barely contained glee when she found out Billy had split with Sean and marching him into the flower shop to tell Todd that Billy was now single. So at least Todd's not totally on his own.

I think that was just one of those off camera conversations that UK soaps do all time, so Sarah now knows about Billy and Todd. Though it always annoys me when UK soaps tell instead of show a story part. I get they have less time than US soaps, and that's just the UK way with a lot of their medias I have seen over the years. But come on this was a valuable moment, they could have just had Sarah ask why Todd is so angry about what it's doing to Billy and Todd mention that Billy and him are seeing each other. And Sarah says something like, "that's great news." A few lines and it would have filled in so much.

And I think part of what makes Sean's behavior more tolerable to me is that while I think we're meant to sympathize with him, I don't think we're meant to find his winging acceptable - Phelan snapped at him, Eileen snapped at both him and Todd, the bosses at the factory (whose names I can't remember) seemed kind of irritated that he called out sick from work because of his "broken heart," Eva snapped at him for whining about his own problems while she was trying to talk about hers, etc. It's easier for me to find it amusing instead of annoying when I feel like the show isn't condoning the bad behavior or expecting us to think it's okay.

I'm sorry he called sick into work over a broken heart? Is he trying to get fired (something else he will probably blame on Todd) I get that he's hurting and in a bad shape. But he said so himself he has got a week of sightseeing in London to pay for. And now that he's without a roof over his head, he should be saving up money to find a permanent place to live. Not canceling work because he's heartbroken. Yes it hurts and yes work will suck, but having that money to help with bills will be one less thing weighing him down. I like Sean well enough, but he's a grown man, it's time he starts to act like one and grow up.

I think I'm in the minority in that I don't think Anthony Cotton's acting is all that bad (I'm the opposite on Finn vs. Sean - I absolutely hate Joe Gill's acting and am really happy that he's not onscreen more, while I generally don't mind Anthony Cotton and like Sean well enough).

Honestly I'm 50/50 when it comes to Anthony Cotton's acting and Joe Gill's acting. I like them both well enough and I have seen them both do good scenes. But I have also seen bits, where I think they could improve. Though the show is very limited with what they give them.

[cheerios]

Forgot to bring this over. Someone made a Todd and Billy video.




I think the show sees the chemistry between Bruno and Daniel and as long as both boys stick around. I think the show might be trying for this to be something real and long lasting. They did start off as friends first, there was no affair, they're honest with each other for the most part, Todd is genuinely trying this time, it's not just about sex, etc.

[overtherainbow]

Aug 9, 2016 21:13:12 GMT -5 atlanticslide said:

I'm not sure I agree that Todd was thrown to the curb other than by Sean. Eileen was clearly struggling with supporting both Sean and Todd, since she cares about them both as is sympathetic towards Sean, but when push really came to shove and Sean was forcing her to choose between them, she wouldn't throw Todd out as Sean wanted and never said anything negative or angry to Todd when Sean was in earshot. I think she was just doing her best in a really awkward situation, and I loved her smackdown of Phelan when he was being nasty about Todd (too bad she took him back so soon after). She's annoyed with Todd about the situation, but I get the sense that it's a fleeting annoyance that'll pass soon enough.

I also like how there are others clearly on Todds side, like Sarah telling him that he deserves someone like Billy (though, sidenote, how did she find out about them? Only Tracy and Eileen knew about them by that point), or Tracy's barely contained glee when she found out Billy had split with Sean and marching him into the flower shop to tell Todd that Billy was now single. So at least Todd's not totally on his own.

And I think part of what makes Sean's behavior more tolerable to me is that while I think we're meant to sympathize with him, I don't think we're meant to find his winging acceptable - Phelan snapped at him, Eileen snapped at both him and Todd, the bosses at the factory (whose names I can't remember) seemed kind of irritated that he called out sick from work because of his "broken heart," Eva snapped at him for whining about his own problems while she was trying to talk about hers, etc. It's easier for me to find it amusing instead of annoying when I feel like the show isn't condoning the bad behavior or expecting us to think it's okay.

I think I'm in the minority in that I don't think Anthony Cotton's acting is all that bad (I'm the opposite on Finn vs. Sean - I absolutely hate Joe Gill's acting and am really happy that he's not onscreen more, while I generally don't mind Anthony Cotton and like Sean well enough).

I understand where Sean is coming from. I understand that it sucks to get dumped, but I still can't feel sorry for him. It pisses me off how the writers OBVIOUSLY want us to feel sorry for him with his "poor me" attitude, but I just can't. He made it all about himself. Again, I understand that he is hurting, but not once did he ask Todd about how he feels. Instead he accused him of lying and cheating. He was really nasty towards Todd. I really just wanted to slap Sean. He would have deserved it. Todd was willing to put his own happiness aside as to not hurt Sean (aka he took back his love confession to Billy). Yet Sean still can't grasp this, Todd is the devil apparently who was out to hurt him and cheat on him. He can't see that Todd did nothing wrong, actually Todd was really amazing considering he could have kissed Billy long before Billy actually broke up with Sean, yet he didn't because he didn't want to do that to Sean.

As for Eileen favoring Sean it's pretty obvious, I mean come on.. Eileen has always had a soft spot for Sean, and again I get it. Todd has hurt her a lot in the past. Todd is a "bad boy", and she doesn't know if she can trust him. Still though, he is her son and she needs to realize family means everything to Todd. She should have been more supportive. She should have supported Todd instead of blaming him for what happened. Once again he got the blame when he didn't deserve it. Everything is apparently Todd's fault, even when it isn't. It pisses me off.

Yes, at least Todd has someone on his side, like Sarah and Tracy. He needs it after his own mother basically picked Sean over him. Then there's Sarah finding out about Todd.. don't even get me started, as close to perfect as this storyline has been up till now, that was one of a few scenes I think they could have done better. Not Todd's conversation with Sarah, that was amazing and Bruno Langley showed what a good actor he is. I'm talking about everyone finding out at Kylie's funeral. I'm fine with Sean finding out that way, but the rest of them? No. I was actually disappointed in the scene all together for it lasted for a split second. If they wanted to make it obvious, if they wanted everyone to get that they are a couple, then that scene should have lasted longer than it did. All it looked like was Billy just calming him down, nothing more. But apparently "everyone" realized they were a couple from those two seconds. I get that it made it obvious for Sean, he didn't need more than those two seconds, because like he said "you never looked at me like that". But it's a bit of a stretch for them all to realize they're a couple from those two seconds?! Again, I wish the scene was long, it could have been a really sweet and romantic moment, maybe Todd could have told him the truth too, but he didn't. Idk, the scene was just too short, not as powerful as it should have been. Besides, I wish Todd had actually sat down with Sarah and told her he has feelings for Billy (I love their friendship) instead of Sarah just saying a throw away line of "don't mess it up" after seeing them together for a split second. I wish the writers had separated the "who killed Callum" thing from everyone finding out about them, it was just too much happening at once, and the whole "Billy & Todd reveal" suffered. I still wonder if that embrace on Kylie's grave was supposed to last longer and if it ended up on the cutting room floor, I wouldn't be surprised at all if that was the case.

Again, if the writers want us to sympathize with Sean they should have written it better. Sean was a self pitying mess. I did not feel sorry for him at all. Had he actually told Todd "I know this can't be easy for you either, you did nothing wrong, it's still difficult for me and you need to accept that I need time to get over it because I really loved Billy" THEN I'd sympathize with him. But he didn't say that at all. Instead he blamed Todd for EVERYTHING. He said some really nasty things about Todd, and that's what pisses me off. He never put himself in Todd's shoes. He never thought how this might not be easy for Todd either because Sean is his friend.

Antony Cotton was good in the angry scenes, but the heartbroken scenes he sounded really insincere, it just sounded so fake. I didn't buy his "heartbreak" at all, especially considering his voice cracked several times. It's like he as an actor didn't really believe what he was saying, and that made it really difficult for me as a viewer to get into the scene. Daniel Brocklebank as Billy was quite good. Antony Cotton was not that good. Sorry, it's just my opinion.

[atlanticslide]

Ah, see, I just don't think the writers are aiming for us to feel that sorry for Sean, or to see Eileen as siding with Todd. Again, when push came to shove, she stood by Todd and let Sean move out, when she could've kicked Todd out (as she's done in the past), and wouldn't let Phelan talk shit about Todd, tried to broker peace between Sean and Todd, argued that Todd doesn't just hurt people for fun (albeit a bit weakly, although I think that's kind of understandable given how awkward the situation was). I like that she's conflicted about this, it feels realistic - she's angry with Todd for the situation and she cares about Sean, but Todd's her son and she even outright said that she'd support him, so I don't really see how she's picked Sean over him I think by the time she gets back from Thailand her anger will probably have blown over.

And I think we're probably supposed to feel a bit for Sean, especially in the first episode when he found out, but it seems like all of the other characters, even the ones who are friends with him, are getting a little fed up with his "poor me" attitude, so I don't think we're supposed to be sympathizing all that much anymore since he's behaving kind of obnoxiously.

All it looked like was Billy just calming him down, nothing more. But apparently "everyone" realized they were a couple from those two seconds.

Oh, maybe that was when Sarah was supposed to have found out. I was really thinking that there was a deleted scene somewhere or something else that we'd missed. If that really was supposed to be everyone finding out, yeah, that's a bit silly - Sean realizing it makes sense, especially since he was standing right there and since he knows both Todd and Billy fairly well, but everyone else standing at a pretty good distance away being able to tell that Billy was intimately comforting Todd because they have feelings for each other is a stretch. I'd love to see Sarah and Todd talk some more about the relationship, especially since I'd love to see Todd talk some more about why he's done some of the things he's done, why he did what he did with Marcus, why this relationship is different, and I think Sarah's one of the few people that he would be totally honest with.

[Zathras]

So I moved Corrie up to the main page. From here on out, please use this thread for general discussion (no spoilers!).

[atlanticslide]

omg yay! Happy to see this on the main page!

[overtherainbow]

Aug 12, 2016 18:56:09 GMT -5 atlanticslide said:

Ah, see, I just don't think the writers are aiming for us to feel that sorry for Sean, or to see Eileen as siding with Todd. Again, when push came to shove, she stood by Todd and let Sean move out, when she could've kicked Todd out (as she's done in the past), and wouldn't let Phelan talk shit about Todd, tried to broker peace between Sean and Todd, argued that Todd doesn't just hurt people for fun (albeit a bit weakly, although I think that's kind of understandable given how awkward the situation was). I like that she's conflicted about this, it feels realistic - she's angry with Todd for the situation and she cares about Sean, but Todd's her son and she even outright said that she'd support him, so I don't really see how she's picked Sean over him I think by the time she gets back from Thailand her anger will probably have blown over.

And I think we're probably supposed to feel a bit for Sean, especially in the first episode when he found out, but it seems like all of the other characters, even the ones who are friends with him, are getting a little fed up with his "poor me" attitude, so I don't think we're supposed to be sympathizing all that much anymore since he's behaving kind of obnoxiously.

All it looked like was Billy just calming him down, nothing more. But apparently "everyone" realized they were a couple from those two seconds.

Oh, maybe that was when Sarah was supposed to have found out. I was really thinking that there was a deleted scene somewhere or something else that we'd missed. If that really was supposed to be everyone finding out, yeah, that's a bit silly - Sean realizing it makes sense, especially since he was standing right there and since he knows both Todd and Billy fairly well, but everyone else standing at a pretty good distance away being able to tell that Billy was intimately comforting Todd because they have feelings for each other is a stretch. I'd love to see Sarah and Todd talk some more about the relationship, especially since I'd love to see Todd talk some more about why he's done some of the things he's done, why he did what he did with Marcus, why this relationship is different, and I think Sarah's one of the few people that he would be totally honest with.

Yeah, maybe you're right about Eileen. She was conflicted. It's just... even when she left she still sorta blamed Todd. She said "try and not make things worse while I'm away". I understand why Todd snapped and said "yeah, blame Todd. Whatever happens that's your default position innit". Just because it was so effing accurate, lol. So she still doesn't trust Todd. But with Todd hurting her in the past I get it, she is being careful. But at the same time Todd is her son and I think maybe she should try and trust him, because he has changed. I know she defended him when Phelan talked sh** about him though, so that's something at least. And yeah, you're right, she could have thrown him out but she didn't.

I still think the writers went out of their ways to have us feel sorry for Sean, especially with Eileen and Sean's scene in the alleyway. But yeah, at the same time I'm at least glad they had other characters, even his friends, call him out on his bs and self pitying. What bugs me with all of this, and I've seen so many people defend Sean, is that people say "Todd just wanted to hurt Sean, Todd hasn't changed at all, poor Sean, Todd cheated on him" when none of these things are true imo. I understand that Sean is hurt, but the truth is Todd could have started the relationship with Billy much sooner than he did, but he didn't, because he didn't want to hurt Sean. He was a good friend to Sean, he put his own feelings aside because he didn't want to hurt his friend. Yet Sean can't see that because he's too upset and he makes it all about himself, like.. he doesn't see that Todd never meant for this to happen, and that it might not be easy for Todd either. He just accused him for lying and cheating. I wish, as a friend, Sean would see Todd's pov too. Oh well, maybe with time he will.

Sarah's comment.. yeah. The whole thing was a big mess. I think we're all suppose to assume that *everybody* knew from watching them at the grave, but that scene didn't last long enough for it to be obvious? Had they started making out, then yeah sure it would be obvious. But Billy literally just calmed him down? Sean knowing both Billy and Todd realized what was going on from those two seconds, so it makes sense, and also he was standing much closer, but for the rest of them? The whole thing just felt so odd. I too wonder if they cut out some scenes, or just made that scene on the grave shorter than it should have been? Because it should have lasted several seconds more for it to be that obvious, and it would have been nice to actually see their reactions when they realized Todd and Billy were a couple, yet we never actually saw those things. It kinda bugged me a bit, just because up till now everything has been so good, and I appreciate Corrie actually having things play out on screen, not off, like certain other soaps. But yeah, that scene on the grave and everybody finding out was a mess, I wish it was done better. But that's what happens when you cram too much into one episode. Maybe it would have been done better if they had separated the Callum murder thing from everyone finding out about them. I know it's still not too late for Sarah and Todd to have a chat and Todd saying how he feels about Billy. I just wish that would be how Sarah found out about them, from Todd confiding in her, being honest and vulnerable, instead of a lame reveal on Kylie's grave. Anyway, it's just my opinion.

Oh, and one more thing, I wish Todd had told Billy the truth about Callum's murder, having watched soaps for years I know all about the tricks, and this for sure means it will come out at a later time. Secrets never last long on soaps. That's why it was a mistake for Todd to not tell Billy the truth. I just hope if/when the truth does come out they'll be able to handle it and get through it. I don't want them breaking up over this.

[cheerios]

Aug 12, 2016 10:22:11 GMT -5 overtherainbow said:

Aug 9, 2016 21:13:12 GMT -5 atlanticslide said:

I'm not sure I agree that Todd was thrown to the curb other than by Sean. Eileen was clearly struggling with supporting both Sean and Todd, since she cares about them both as is sympathetic towards Sean, but when push really came to shove and Sean was forcing her to choose between them, she wouldn't throw Todd out as Sean wanted and never said anything negative or angry to Todd when Sean was in earshot. I think she was just doing her best in a really awkward situation, and I loved her smackdown of Phelan when he was being nasty about Todd (too bad she took him back so soon after). She's annoyed with Todd about the situation, but I get the sense that it's a fleeting annoyance that'll pass soon enough.

I also like how there are others clearly on Todds side, like Sarah telling him that he deserves someone like Billy (though, sidenote, how did she find out about them? Only Tracy and Eileen knew about them by that point), or Tracy's barely contained glee when she found out Billy had split with Sean and marching him into the flower shop to tell Todd that Billy was now single. So at least Todd's not totally on his own.

And I think part of what makes Sean's behavior more tolerable to me is that while I think we're meant to sympathize with him, I don't think we're meant to find his winging acceptable - Phelan snapped at him, Eileen snapped at both him and Todd, the bosses at the factory (whose names I can't remember) seemed kind of irritated that he called out sick from work because of his "broken heart," Eva snapped at him for whining about his own problems while she was trying to talk about hers, etc. It's easier for me to find it amusing instead of annoying when I feel like the show isn't condoning the bad behavior or expecting us to think it's okay.

I think I'm in the minority in that I don't think Anthony Cotton's acting is all that bad (I'm the opposite on Finn vs. Sean - I absolutely hate Joe Gill's acting and am really happy that he's not onscreen more, while I generally don't mind Anthony Cotton and like Sean well enough).

I understand where Sean is coming from. I understand that it sucks to get dumped, but I still can't feel sorry for him. It pisses me off how the writers OBVIOUSLY want us to feel sorry for him with his "poor me" attitude, but I just can't. He made it all about himself. Again, I understand that he is hurting, but not once did he ask Todd about how he feels. Instead he accused him of lying and cheating. He was really nasty towards Todd. I really just wanted to slap Sean. He would have deserved it. Todd was willing to put his own happiness aside as to not hurt Sean (aka he took back his love confession to Billy). Yet Sean still can't grasp this, Todd is the devil apparently who was out to hurt him and cheat on him. He can't see that Todd did nothing wrong, actually Todd was really amazing considering he could have kissed Billy long before Billy actually broke up with Sean, yet he didn't because he didn't want to do that to Sean.

As for Eileen favoring Sean it's pretty obvious, I mean come on.. Eileen has always had a soft spot for Sean, and again I get it. Todd has hurt her a lot in the past. Todd is a "bad boy", and she doesn't know if she can trust him. Still though, he is her son and she needs to realize family means everything to Todd. She should have been more supportive. She should have supported Todd instead of blaming him for what happened. Once again he got the blame when he didn't deserve it. Everything is apparently Todd's fault, even when it isn't. It pisses me off.

Yes, at least Todd has someone on his side, like Sarah and Tracy. He needs it after his own mother basically picked Sean over him. Then there's Sarah finding out about Todd.. don't even get me started, as close to perfect as this storyline has been up till now, that was one of a few scenes I think they could have done better. Not Todd's conversation with Sarah, that was amazing and Bruno Langley showed what a good actor he is. I'm talking about everyone finding out at Kylie's funeral. I'm fine with Sean finding out that way, but the rest of them? No. I was actually disappointed in the scene all together for it lasted for a split second. If they wanted to make it obvious, if they wanted everyone to get that they are a couple, then that scene should have lasted longer than it did. All it looked like was Billy just calming him down, nothing more. But apparently "everyone" realized they were a couple from those two seconds. I get that it made it obvious for Sean, he didn't need more than those two seconds, because like he said "you never looked at me like that". But it's a bit of a stretch for them all to realize they're a couple from those two seconds?! Again, I wish the scene was long, it could have been a really sweet and romantic moment, maybe Todd could have told him the truth too, but he didn't. Idk, the scene was just too short, not as powerful as it should have been. Besides, I wish Todd had actually sat down with Sarah and told her he has feelings for Billy (I love their friendship) instead of Sarah just saying a throw away line of "don't mess it up" after seeing them together for a split second. I wish the writers had separated the "who killed Callum" thing from everyone finding out about them, it was just too much happening at once, and the whole "Billy & Todd reveal" suffered. I still wonder if that embrace on Kylie's grave was supposed to last longer and if it ended up on the cutting room floor, I wouldn't be surprised at all if that was the case.

Again, if the writers want us to sympathize with Sean they should have written it better. Sean was a self pitying mess. I did not feel sorry for him at all. Had he actually told Todd "I know this can't be easy for you either, you did nothing wrong, it's still difficult for me and you need to accept that I need time to get over it because I really loved Billy" THEN I'd sympathize with him. But he didn't say that at all. Instead he blamed Todd for EVERYTHING. He said some really nasty things about Todd, and that's what pisses me off. He never put himself in Todd's shoes. He never thought how this might not be easy for Todd either because Sean is his friend.

Antony Cotton was good in the angry scenes, but the heartbroken scenes he sounded really insincere, it just sounded so fake. I didn't buy his "heartbreak" at all, especially considering his voice cracked several times. It's like he as an actor didn't really believe what he was saying, and that made it really difficult for me as a viewer to get into the scene. Daniel Brocklebank as Billy was quite good. Antony Cotton was not that good. Sorry, it's just my opinion.

I don't know much about Sean, I always saw him as the stereotypical gay who in window dressing to fill a scene and have some funny lines or funny moments. So I may be way off on his character. But him not putting himself in Todd's shoes is believable to me, he comes off to me before all this happened as selfish, self centered, and over dramatic. All he would see is his pain and how he was "wronged" by someone he saw as a mate. He wouldn't once think about their side because nothing matter but his side. I agree his me, me, me is wearing thin and we didn't need so much of it on screens to get the point across that he's suffering greatly. I would hope the show would take this moment to have him grow as a character and stop being such a pillock, but I don't see that happening. I would have loved to see more of Billy and more of Todd and Billy instead of the forced upon us melodrama of Sean for two straight days.

Though I liked Anthony's acting in the church when Billy and him in the flat when he found Eileen knew well enough. I didn't mind the voice cracking, I thought it was just showing how he has so many emotions flying about now that he's found out all these big truths in his life. It made him more human for me and less of a caricature. Though him acting like the world was attacking him was a bit much for me. I get that he keeps feeling wronged and abandoned by the world, but his behavior doesn't help matters. And I just wish he would do some soul searching and realizes he's needs to own his behavior and choices. Todd acted mature in those scenes with Seam, he's really has improved with his behavior. Billy has been a good improvement on him, though I think Todd in a way is tired of being out in the cold when it comes to the people he loves.

I hate the UK soaps whole "tell, don't show" because it takes a lot of great story moments that could explain a lot about the story, the characters, the relationships between the characters. I get that they don't have as much time as other soaps from say the US. It's still important to show the movement of a story naturally and genially instead of just bullet points.

[LadyArmand]

I know Todd has been a prat in the past and thus it is nearly impossible for the people who know hm and the people he's hurt (which is almost everyone he knows) to give him the benefit of the doubt. I know Sean is hurt and it's only natural that he'd lash out at Todd given Todd's (not so distant) past. However, as well as he knows Todd, isn't he meant to also know Billy? And while it hurts like hell to love someone who has fallen out of love with you and in love with a friend of yours, Sean is still meant to know Billy pretty well. And for him to continue to believe that Billy cheated on him, when Billy told him that's not the case is what gets on my nerves. Todd is an easy target, I get it. However, he's known and been intimate with Billy for a while, and he should know that given who Billy is, that he wouldn't lie about something like cheating.

I'm not saying he has to ever be happy for Todd and Billy. I'm not saying that considering how much he loved/still loves Billy, that he's not entitled to be up in his feeling for a minute about how and why things ended. What I am saying is that I wish the show would allow Sean the grow beyond the self-pitying, self-centered, drama queen that he is. To me his character has been one continuous, obnoxious, droning note for a very long time. With everything Todd is, he's never boring, and he's been allowed to grow as a character so much so that I understand what Billy sees in him and why he loves him. I can't say the same about Billy being with Sean. To me Todd and Billy make more sense as a couple than Billy and Sean.

[atlanticslide]

That's a good point about Billy - it's rather disrespectful for Sean to assume that Billy must have cheated on him simply because he fell for Todd and because Todd has done it in the past. While it's understandable, it's still rather sad and a bit cruel that Sean told Billy several times that his relationship with Todd is just part of a joke or a game on Todd's part.

I read an interesting interview with Daniel Brocklebank (it might've been posted here) about how he was glad they didn't have Billy cheat on Sean with Todd and instead break up with Sean before getting together with Todd, which I thought made a lot of sense. For one, it really isn't in Billy's nature to do something like that, and I appreciate that they held true with his character even though the more soapy option may have been an affair storyline. For another, they've done affair storylines with Todd several times now, and I like that for once he really did the right thing, did his best not to hurt his friend, but there's still damage and fallout because it's hard for others to believe that he did nothing wrong here.

To me Todd and Billy make more sense as a couple than Billy and Sean.

Agreed. Seems like with Sean/Billy, both of them were rather stagnant as people/characters. Todd/Billy has a lot of potential for growth and development for both characters, and I think we've seen a bit of it on Todd's part already.

[overtherainbow]

Aug 13, 2016 2:53:59 GMT -5 cheerios said:

Aug 12, 2016 10:22:11 GMT -5 overtherainbow said:

I understand where Sean is coming from. I understand that it sucks to get dumped, but I still can't feel sorry for him. It pisses me off how the writers OBVIOUSLY want us to feel sorry for him with his "poor me" attitude, but I just can't. He made it all about himself. Again, I understand that he is hurting, but not once did he ask Todd about how he feels. Instead he accused him of lying and cheating. He was really nasty towards Todd. I really just wanted to slap Sean. He would have deserved it. Todd was willing to put his own happiness aside as to not hurt Sean (aka he took back his love confession to Billy). Yet Sean still can't grasp this, Todd is the devil apparently who was out to hurt him and cheat on him. He can't see that Todd did nothing wrong, actually Todd was really amazing considering he could have kissed Billy long before Billy actually broke up with Sean, yet he didn't because he didn't want to do that to Sean.

As for Eileen favoring Sean it's pretty obvious, I mean come on.. Eileen has always had a soft spot for Sean, and again I get it. Todd has hurt her a lot in the past. Todd is a "bad boy", and she doesn't know if she can trust him. Still though, he is her son and she needs to realize family means everything to Todd. She should have been more supportive. She should have supported Todd instead of blaming him for what happened. Once again he got the blame when he didn't deserve it. Everything is apparently Todd's fault, even when it isn't. It pisses me off.

Yes, at least Todd has someone on his side, like Sarah and Tracy. He needs it after his own mother basically picked Sean over him. Then there's Sarah finding out about Todd.. don't even get me started, as close to perfect as this storyline has been up till now, that was one of a few scenes I think they could have done better. Not Todd's conversation with Sarah, that was amazing and Bruno Langley showed what a good actor he is. I'm talking about everyone finding out at Kylie's funeral. I'm fine with Sean finding out that way, but the rest of them? No. I was actually disappointed in the scene all together for it lasted for a split second. If they wanted to make it obvious, if they wanted everyone to get that they are a couple, then that scene should have lasted longer than it did. All it looked like was Billy just calming him down, nothing more. But apparently "everyone" realized they were a couple from those two seconds. I get that it made it obvious for Sean, he didn't need more than those two seconds, because like he said "you never looked at me like that". But it's a bit of a stretch for them all to realize they're a couple from those two seconds?! Again, I wish the scene was long, it could have been a really sweet and romantic moment, maybe Todd could have told him the truth too, but he didn't. Idk, the scene was just too short, not as powerful as it should have been. Besides, I wish Todd had actually sat down with Sarah and told her he has feelings for Billy (I love their friendship) instead of Sarah just saying a throw away line of "don't mess it up" after seeing them together for a split second. I wish the writers had separated the "who killed Callum" thing from everyone finding out about them, it was just too much happening at once, and the whole "Billy & Todd reveal" suffered. I still wonder if that embrace on Kylie's grave was supposed to last longer and if it ended up on the cutting room floor, I wouldn't be surprised at all if that was the case.

Again, if the writers want us to sympathize with Sean they should have written it better. Sean was a self pitying mess. I did not feel sorry for him at all. Had he actually told Todd "I know this can't be easy for you either, you did nothing wrong, it's still difficult for me and you need to accept that I need time to get over it because I really loved Billy" THEN I'd sympathize with him. But he didn't say that at all. Instead he blamed Todd for EVERYTHING. He said some really nasty things about Todd, and that's what pisses me off. He never put himself in Todd's shoes. He never thought how this might not be easy for Todd either because Sean is his friend.

Antony Cotton was good in the angry scenes, but the heartbroken scenes he sounded really insincere, it just sounded so fake. I didn't buy his "heartbreak" at all, especially considering his voice cracked several times. It's like he as an actor didn't really believe what he was saying, and that made it really difficult for me as a viewer to get into the scene. Daniel Brocklebank as Billy was quite good. Antony Cotton was not that good. Sorry, it's just my opinion.

I don't know much about Sean, I always saw him as the stereotypical gay who in window dressing to fill a scene and have some funny lines or funny moments. So I may be way off on his character. But him not putting himself in Todd's shoes is believable to me, he comes off to me before all this happened as selfish, self centered, and over dramatic. All he would see is his pain and how he was "wronged" by someone he saw as a mate. He wouldn't once think about their side because nothing matter but his side. I agree his me, me, me is wearing thin and we didn't need so much of it on screens to get the point across that he's suffering greatly. I would hope the show would take this moment to have him grow as a character and stop being such a pillock, but I don't see that happening. I would have loved to see more of Billy and more of Todd and Billy instead of the forced upon us melodrama of Sean for two straight days.

Though I liked Anthony's acting in the church when Billy and him in the flat when he found Eileen knew well enough. I didn't mind the voice cracking, I thought it was just showing how he has so many emotions flying about now that he's found out all these big truths in his life. It made him more human for me and less of a caricature. Though him acting like the world was attacking him was a bit much for me. I get that he keeps feeling wronged and abandoned by the world, but his behavior doesn't help matters. And I just wish he would do some soul searching and realizes he's needs to own his behavior and choices. Todd acted mature in those scenes with Seam, he's really has improved with his behavior. Billy has been a good improvement on him, though I think Todd in a way is tired of being out in the cold when it comes to the people he loves.

I hate the UK soaps whole "tell, don't show" because it takes a lot of great story moments that could explain a lot about the story, the characters, the relationships between the characters. I get that they don't have as much time as other soaps from say the US. It's still important to show the movement of a story naturally and genially instead of just bullet points.

Don't get me wrong, him not believing Todd makes sense. I get why he doesn't trust Todd, because lets face it.. he does has a shady past and he is known to lie. I agree that he is selfish and self-centered and overly dramatic, so yeah.. his reaction definitely fits the character. He would never put himself in someone else's shoes. It still doesn't make it less annoying though. His me attitude is wearing thin. We got too much of it too, it just made it all the more annoying. And yeah.. the lack of character development for Sean is awful. Though that said, maybe Kate Oates can work her magic? One can only hope. Her episodes start airing next week btw. Will be interesting to see if she manage to develop him into a complex character, more than just the stereotypical overly dramatic selfish guy we have seen up till now. What annoys me is that Sean was the main focus of those two episodes, not Todd & Billy. I would have loved to see more of Todd & Billy's reaction, instead like you said we just got more of Sean's annoying melodrama. It just wasn't well done imo. Todd & Billy should have gotten more screen time, instead they fed us and overly dramatic Sean in two whole episodes, it just got too much.

But like you said, Sean "poor me" attitude is maybe why he is "wronged by the world" in the first place. Maybe he should do some soul searching, maybe it's not always everybody else's fault, maybe he is to blame sometimes too. His behavior can be grading to some. In this case though I don't think he did anything wrong in the relationship with Billy, sometimes people just fall out of love, which is what happened here. Yeah, Todd was mature, and I'm really pleased for Bruno Langley. He is an amazing actor and I'm happy they give Todd more screen time, because Todd is an interesting guy and Bruno's acting is fantastic, so it's well deserved. And I like the fact that they allowed Todd to grow as a character (basically the opposite of what they've done to Sean). Todd is not the "bad guy" anymore. I mean, he still has that manipulative side to him, but this time he uses it for something good, like taking down Phelan to protect his family. His heart is in the right place. He really cares about the people close to him, the people he considers family, Jason, EIleen, Sarah and yes even Sean. He has been very mature through all of this. It's wonderful to see. I think the writers did the right thing by softening his character. Seeing him caring about people was the right thing to do. It just made the character more relatable, and not a villain through and through.

The problem I have with Antony Cotton is that it came across as fake and insincere. I just didn't believe him. His voice cracking sounded so dodgy. Like he himself as an actor didn't believe what he was saying. And his fake crying was just annoying. I've said it before but I'll say it again: the guy cannot act. I feel the opposite of many people about the Sean and Billy scene in the church and Sean and Eileen's scene in the alleyway. I know many people praised Antony Cotton's acting, but to me he just came across as an even worse actor than usual. Sorry, just my opinion. I'm fine with people disagreeing though, obviously. I know I'm in the minority because many people praised his acting. I still think his acting sucked, even in those scenes where he was supposed to be good.

Yeah, British soaps can get annoying sometimes, with their "tell, not show" attitude. That's why I was so positively surprised by Corrie. We actually saw what happened on screen, not off. Todd & Billy have been allowed to get together and let their relationship grow on screen. They showed them falling for each other, and the affection and deeply caring for each other when they actually did get together. They show them being close and actually communicating. It's wonderful to see. I guess that's why I was so disappointed by the scenes on Kylie's grave. Everyone was supposed to get Todd and Billy being together from those two split seconds?! If that was the intention then they should have made it more obvious and had the scene lasting for longer. The fact that people got confused as to how Sarah knew about them just proves the fact that the scene on the grave was not well done, at all. It should have lasted longer instead of getting crammed into an episode with 3-4 storylines going on at once, I think that ruined it. I do wonder if the scene was originally supposed to last longer and that it got cut in post-production, hmm..

[overtherainbow]

Just gonna reply to this in a new post, would have been way too much for just one post

Aug 13, 2016 18:25:19 GMT -5 LadyArmand said:

I know Todd has been a prat in the past and thus it is nearly impossible for the people who know hm and the people he's hurt (which is almost everyone he knows) to give him the benefit of the doubt. I know Sean is hurt and it's only natural that he'd lash out at Todd given Todd's (not so distant) past. However, as well as he knows Todd, isn't he meant to also know Billy? And while it hurts like hell to love someone who has fallen out of love with you and in love with a friend of yours, Sean is still meant to know Billy pretty well. And for him to continue to believe that Billy cheated on him, when Billy told him that's not the case is what gets on my nerves. Todd is an easy target, I get it. However, he's known and been intimate with Billy for a while, and he should know that given who Billy is, that he wouldn't lie about something like cheating.

I'm not saying he has to ever be happy for Todd and Billy. I'm not saying that considering how much he loved/still loves Billy, that he's not entitled to be up in his feeling for a minute about how and why things ended. What I am saying is that I wish the show would allow Sean the grow beyond the self-pitying, self-centered, drama queen that he is. To me his character has been one continuous, obnoxious, droning note for a very long time. With everything Todd is, he's never boring, and he's been allowed to grow as a character so much so that I understand what Billy sees in him and why he loves him. I can't say the same about Billy being with Sean. To me Todd and Billy make more sense as a couple than Billy and Sean.

Yeah, I know it's weird I just feel so protective of Todd. I know he has done some terrible things in the past, but for once he actually did the right thing and now people won't believe him. Well.. at least not Sean. I get why Sean won't believe him, with everything Todd has done in the past it makes total sense, but it still doesn't make it any less hurtful for Todd, because Todd has really grown as a character. He is trying so hard to do the right thing, to be a better person, and it hurts because Sean is supposed to be his best friend yet he won't believe him. Instead Sean throws out the most hurtful insults, saying Todd "enjoys hurting people" and Todd always lies and cheat when that isn't the case at all.. or at least not anymore.

You make a really good point about Billy. He's supposed to know Billy, they were together for a long time. Yet he didn't believe Billy in the church when he said he didn't lie? I just find that so odd. It's like he believes Billy can't think for himself, that this is just another one of Todd's schemes and Billy is the innocent victim. The truth is though that there are two people in a relationship. Why wouldn't he listen to Billy when he said he had fallen for Todd and he couldn't help how he feels, and that they never meant to hurt Sean. He drew a conclusion right away, that Todd set out to hurt Sean and that this is all Todd's fault and Billy has fallen for Todd's many lies. Again, I get why he would think that about Todd, but why Billy? They were together for so long. Did it never occur to him that Billy has a mind of his own? That Billy may not have been manipulated into the relationship, but that he actually feels the same for Todd?

I agree that the lack of character development on Sean's part has been annoying. They have treated him as a one note character for far too long now, it would have been nice to see him actually putting himself in other people's shoes for once, to see that it's not always about him. Maybe this isn't easy for Todd either. But no.. the writers had him be more self-centered and ott than usual. It is just so grading. The writers had the perfect opportunity to actually let Sean grow as a character, but they didn't. And like you said, they have let Todd grown a lot these past few months. They have softened his character, it's obvious he really does care about his family and friends and would do anything to protect them. Todd still has that "bad boy" side, but that's not all he is. So if the writers managed to develop the Todd character, why couldn't they do that with the Sean character?

It makes total sense that Billy fell for Todd. Todd may not be perfect, Todd may have his flaws, and Billy is well aware of his past. Billy still fell for him because Todd has good sides too, Todd is a caring person and he was there for Billy when Billy needed someone to talk to about his brother, and even the Callum murder mystery. They grew closer, and it didn't feel forced at all, it actually felt natural and genuine. They were there for each other and they communicated well, and they comforted each other. I feel like while Billy could never be good enough for Sean, he was always complaining about work taking up to much of Billy's time, it's different with Todd. Todd likes Billy for who he is. Todd isn't even a very religious person, yet he never felt the need to change that part about Billy, he accepts Billy for who he is, just as Billy accepts Todd for who he is, flaws and all. That's why I think this relationship is much more genuine, and healthier, than when Sean was with Billy. Billy could never live up to Sean's expectations, and whatever Billy did he could never be good enough. The relationship wasn't healthy, and I'm glad Billy is in a better and more equal relationship with Todd. I completely agree with you saying Billy & Todd makes much more sense as a couple than Billy & Sean.

Aug 13, 2016 20:26:58 GMT -5 atlanticslide said:

That's a good point about Billy - it's rather disrespectful for Sean to assume that Billy must have cheated on him simply because he fell for Todd and because Todd has done it in the past. While it's understandable, it's still rather sad and a bit cruel that Sean told Billy several times that his relationship with Todd is just part of a joke or a game on Todd's part.

I read an interesting interview with Daniel Brocklebank (it might've been posted here) about how he was glad they didn't have Billy cheat on Sean with Todd and instead break up with Sean before getting together with Todd, which I thought made a lot of sense. For one, it really isn't in Billy's nature to do something like that, and I appreciate that they held true with his character even though the more soapy option may have been an affair storyline. For another, they've done affair storylines with Todd several times now, and I like that for once he really did the right thing, did his best not to hurt his friend, but there's still damage and fallout because it's hard for others to believe that he did nothing wrong here.

To me Todd and Billy make more sense as a couple than Billy and Sean.

Agreed. Seems like with Sean/Billy, both of them were rather stagnant as people/characters. Todd/Billy has a lot of potential for growth and development for both characters, and I think we've seen a bit of it on Todd's part already.

Yes! I'm glad glad about the fact that they didn't go down the soapy route, because they could have, they could have made Billy cheat on Sean with Todd, but they didn't. I appreciate the fact that they respect Billy's character enough to know that Billy would never do that. I'm glad they had Billy break up with Sean before getting together with Todd. Sean is still hurt, and Sean still feels betrayed by Todd. It makes sense because it isn't easy. But like I said I still wish the writers used the opportunity for Sean as a character to grow, to once actually listen to Todd and Billy instead of just slinging out insults. It would have been refreshing and it would have made it easier for people to relate and to feel bad for him, instead he came across as an annoying queen, self-centered and even more selfish than usual. And yes, I agree another affair storyline with Todd would have been boring. I'm glad they didn't fall into that trope.

Yep, I agree. Todd & Billy as a couple makes much more sense. Todd has already grown as a character, and although it started before he got together with Billy I still think Billy has been a positive influence on him. And also, like I said, Todd and Billy work because they actually accept each other with flaws and all, they don't try to change each other the way Sean tried to change Billy when he was with him. It's a more equal and healthy relationship.

[cheerios]

Aug 13, 2016 18:25:19 GMT -5 LadyArmand said:

I know Todd has been a prat in the past and thus it is nearly impossible for the people who know hm and the people he's hurt (which is almost everyone he knows) to give him the benefit of the doubt. I know Sean is hurt and it's only natural that he'd lash out at Todd given Todd's (not so distant) past. However, as well as he knows Todd, isn't he meant to also know Billy? And while it hurts like hell to love someone who has fallen out of love with you and in love with a friend of yours, Sean is still meant to know Billy pretty well. And for him to continue to believe that Billy cheated on him, when Billy told him that's not the case is what gets on my nerves. Todd is an easy target, I get it. However, he's known and been intimate with Billy for a while, and he should know that given who Billy is, that he wouldn't lie about something like cheating.

I'm not saying he has to ever be happy for Todd and Billy. I'm not saying that considering how much he loved/still loves Billy, that he's not entitled to be up in his feeling for a minute about how and why things ended. What I am saying is that I wish the show would allow Sean the grow beyond the self-pitying, self-centered, drama queen that he is. To me his character has been one continuous, obnoxious, droning note for a very long time. With everything Todd is, he's never boring, and he's been allowed to grow as a character so much so that I understand what Billy sees in him and why he loves him. I can't say the same about Billy being with Sean. To me Todd and Billy make more sense as a couple than Billy and Sean.

Thank you for putting in to words everything I feel about this whole mess. Sean shows that he has no respect for Billy if he honestly believes that Todd could just march in twirl his evil mustache, Billy would swoon and they would have this long affair mocking Sean the entire time. Billy is his own person with his own heart and mind, he is not the cheating type. He made the choice to go alone, Todd kept rejecting him. Yet he knew he didn't care for Sean anymore the way a boyfriend should, so he walked away. Also what were they suppose to meet him at the train making out, so he wasn't kept in the dark for I believe one or two days. Then taking away the attention from Kylie and her funeral? Does Sean remember her, the lady who was apparently his mate, who was murdered leaving behind a husband and two children. Todd and Billy wanted her funeral to come first and then they were going to tell him after.

That does bug me about Sean that he's so self centered, that his mind set is so set on him (and him only for the most part) that it seems to have little room for other people or things. It's like he has to be the center of attention, I mean Billy has a demanding job (that he loves and is a big part of who he is) and I don't think Sean ever understood that or respected it. And from the little I saw that even when Sean and Billy were spending time together as a couple the focus had to be on Sean. I mean there is even a scene I saw of tumblr, where Sean keeps going on about himself and he says the line, "What am I like?" And Billy replies, "Right now? Annoying, petty minded, and self-obsessed."

And I get it, his mother sounded like a horrible person and mother to him. And I get that those kind of scars run deep and how he keeps getting the short end of the stick will knock him back too. But did it ever dawn on him that his actions, like his selfish behavior, his self centerness, his whining, drama queen, his needy clingy behavior, etc. All these do not help to have a successful healthy relationship with anyone, let alone a lover. Towards the end I think before Todd, (from what I have seen) they just came off more as friend than boyfriends. I just wish Sean would own up to is hands in this. Billy and Sean had a lot more wrong with them, than just Billy falling for Todd and Todd returning the sentiment.

I'll have to rewatch it to see if I'm right, but Billy was going through somethings serious stuff with both his brother Lee and his drug habit. Plus covering for Sarah for Callum's murder and dealing with what that meant as a man and a vicar. He's was literately coming apart at the seams and I don't think Sean notice and if he noticed he didn't seem to do whatever it took to find out what was wrong and to help. Talk about not knowing your partner and being there for them.

But Todd noticed, Todd helped Billy out in a really dark moment in his life and help to lift him back up into the light. Sure it was a bit selfish because of Todd wanting to protect Sarah and somewhat his backside. But he cared for Billy and could see him suffering, so Todd stepped up and grew as a human being and was there for another person with no benefits to himself. Todd who Billy felt able to unburden a lot of stuff he's probably held on to for years. He let Todd see the pink underbelly of vulnerable and insecure man who thought no one would accept, love, trust him knowing his biggest shame. But Todd not only understood and accepted, Todd was there for Billy and help him process and deal with what he was going through. Billy is the vicar, he's usually the one with the answers and helping others, not the other way around.

And instead of complaining about Billy's work getting in the way or throwing a tantrum or accuse Billy of abandoning him for his flock. Todd shows up for Billy with his work and puts in the effort to be where Billy is when it comes to his job. They have such a chance to grow and evolve as a couple more than the stagnant relationship of Billy and Sean ever has.

[LadyArmand]

The one thing I think is good about Sean acting out in all of this is that it has brought Todd and Billy closer because Billy knows the truth. It's like them against the world at this point. Billy knows how hard Todd fought his feelings, he know how many times that Todd put his friendship with Sean above wanting him. He knows that he struggled and was trying so desperately to do the right thing by his friend. I think all of this will make Billy very protective of Todd (not that he needs protecting) because he knows and understands just how far Todd has come from being the person that Sean says/think/believes Todd still is.

Don't get me wrong I understand why Sean feels the way he does about Todd. But Billy was/is someone Sean is meant to love and know as a person, and yet he doesn't believe Billy? I just find it annoying that he thinks so little of Billy that he believes he can be so easily fooled by Todd. As if Billy hasn't been witness to some of the fallout when Todd has hurt people.

[atlanticslide]

Aug 14, 2016 12:38:07 GMT -5 cheerios said:

And instead of complaining about Billy's work getting in the way or throwing a tantrum or accuse Billy of abandoning him for his flock. Todd shows up for Billy with his work and puts in the effort to be where Billy is when it comes to his job. They have such a chance to grow and evolve as a couple more than the stagnant relationship of Billy and Sean ever has.

It is interesting that while Billy's job was one of the things that caused problems in his relationship with Sean, in the early days of his relationship with Todd the show made a point of demonstrating that Todd isn't put off by Billy's responsibilities, and in fact Todd happily joined in and supported Billy when his job took precedence over their plans.

[kevvoi]

Channel Todd Fan is posting clips from Todd's return in 2013 - very organized with playlist. Currently uploading clips from Todd's relationship with Marcus:

www.youtube.com/channel/UChFgY99vmgMZxWiNeLj6sXw

[cheerios]

Todd clips? Very organized with playlists? Two of my favorite things, goes off to watch. I never got to see that Todd really, I saw him with his relationship with Sarah and his affair with Karl and then he was gone. And now he's back and I still love him. Bruno does such a great job.

[HQ75]

I didn't recognize Daniel when he first showed upon Corrie but I can't believe how many of these movies & tv shows I've actually seen and I just didn't recognize him. He's amazing. Such a chameleon.

Daniel Brocklebank Showreel 2014

[overtherainbow]

Thanks for posting that video, HQ75. Since we're in a Tilly drought right now and there is literally nothing else to talk about I hope you don't mind that I post this clip of Dan Brocklebank when he was on Loose Women.

[atlanticslide]

Idly thinking about these two as we wait for aaaaaaaaaaaages for them to be back on screen (and I've been skimming through old episodes from around last December and working my way forwards).

Does anyone who's been watching for longer know what the deal is with Todd's father? Wikipedia only lists his name and it seems like he's never been in Todd's life at all, but I wonder if he's ever really been mentioned beyond just his name.

I'd love to see Todd's time away in London explored more (it seems like Kate Oates is interested in that backstory as well so I hope they delve into it at some point) - how he went from being a generally nice, warm, straight-and-narrow kid to being bitter and cynical and sarcastic and angry at the world. There are so many little hints that something happened to him - Eileen describes him at one point as thinking the world is out to get him and wanting to get his revenge in prematurely; Eileen telling him that he'll live a lonely life if he keeps treating people badly and he brushes it off with "I'm used to it"; he tells Jason at one point that Jason is a terrible liar and tells him he needs to practice at it more (like looking people in the eye when he lies) as Todd has presumably has. He's a really fascinating character, especially since we don't really know exactly why he behaves the way he does.

I'd also love to know more of Billy's backstory. In one of the episodes I just watched, Billy kind of flew off the handle in trying to break up a fight in the pub, and while everyone (especially Sean) was quite impressed, it was so interestingly out of character that it makes you wonder if there's something beneath the surface with him that has yet to be explored on the show. This scene is in the midst of building up to the reveal of his brother so he's stressed out and that's ostensibly why he lashes out, but it could be interesting to find out more about what his life was like before he became a vicar. I wonder if they'll ever bring Lee back and expand on the character and their relationship.

[HQ75]

For anyone interested someone has uploaded Todd's storylines again (pre Billy)
Todd Fan playlist
www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL4nb5UdiLATSrrFRMYh_NHVPDOAntVLyT

[kevvoi]

New clip courtesy of Megs:

[HQ75]

Bruno Langley aka Todd Grimshaw off Coronation St chats with Mr Deansgate about Coronation St

[atlanticslide]

Heh, I was watching an older clip, from when Todd first starts working at Tracy's pawn shop and he jams out for a few minutes on a drum set, and I wondered if that was a Bruno Langley talent that they decided to throw into the show for fun.