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Post by dane323 on Nov 20, 2009 15:54:05 GMT -5
 Wow! I'm practically speechless! No wait, here comes my mouth... The situation sounds a lot like what you guys have mentioned about Lenny getting ganged up on at the Bund. Perhaps this event is something of a bookend for that previous event, and Lenny chooses to finally get through his own issues/fears over the past couple years, and in a role reversal from that previous Bund gang event, he comes to Carsten's [eventual] rescue. But too late. Which adds to his guilt. |
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Post by dane323 on Nov 20, 2009 15:55:48 GMT -5
Oh, and I hope Carsten wakes up from his coma and suddenly speaks English instead. Yay for me! (What! could happen!)
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Post by lovecars100 on Nov 20, 2009 19:16:19 GMT -5
Try as I might the only speck of hope I see in the spoilers is that Lenny didnt run away when the bashing started.. At least he tried to protect Carsten.. And as Sheepie said, we've hit the bottom  Pls Carsten, forgive Lenny, for he does not know what he's doing. and the gang really sucks... bunch of neanderthals! So True! and I always viewed Tuner as a bit clueless, bit stupid but ultimately understanding guy  |
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Post by Duskysoda on Nov 20, 2009 23:54:22 GMT -5
Lenny did horrible things to Carsten leading him to the trap but he couldn't actually hit him as planned and then Lenny lost consciousness and was in the hospital with Carsten as well. What other explanation could there be accept at the last second he tried to protect Carsten from the Tuner gang attack and got beaten up himself?
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Post by romancejunkie on Nov 21, 2009 0:23:09 GMT -5
Even when beaten in the Bund, Lenny was not led into the conflict by someone he trusted. Lenny leading Carsten into the trap is a monumental betrayal. Whether he recants at the last moment and attempts to protect Carsten hardly assuages his guilt. No amount of rage and denial of self can justify such a cowardly act. If this spoiler is indeed accurate, then Lenny proves himself to be less than a man and undeserving of Carsten. He's earns his pieces of silver!
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Nitty
Full Member
I will eat your brains and gain your knowledge...
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Post by Nitty on Nov 21, 2009 0:28:18 GMT -5
Oh, and I hope Carsten wakes up from his coma and suddenly speaks English instead. Yay for me! (What! could happen!) -Hehehe! ;D The new spoilers are C-R-A-Z-Y! I really can't imagine the gang being that horrible to Carsten...and eventually to Lenny, when he tries protect Carsten.(I'm assuming) I don't want to see the attack; it sounds scary!  |
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mycatfox
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"One sees clearly only with the heart. What is essential is invisible to the eye"
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Post by mycatfox on Nov 21, 2009 0:44:06 GMT -5
Oh, and I hope Carsten wakes up from his coma and suddenly speaks English instead. Yay for me! (What! could happen!) ;D LOL! That would be the frost on the cake, really. This is a soap opera, so the unthinkable could happen...  |
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Post by romancejunkie on Nov 21, 2009 0:51:33 GMT -5
Obviously, I'm a tad upset by these spoilers. Certainly these events may prove to be the flux which precipitates Lenny's meltdown. Perhaps he can then recast himself. I just wonder if anyone will remain who cares. As for the gang: how can you predict the action of a group of highly suggestible dim bulbs? Individually they may have redeeming qualities, but, together, they're a mob. And.....religious intolerance, racial and ethnic bigotry, homophobia and sexism still thrive in such groups.
(I reread these lines and realize I sound a bit harsh. Hmmmmm.....I just think Lenny crossed a line.)
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jnn111
Junior Member
McDean Forever!!!!!
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Post by jnn111 on Nov 21, 2009 1:53:16 GMT -5
Obviously, I'm a tad upset by these spoilers. Certainly these events may prove to be the flux which precipitates Lenny's meltdown. Perhaps he can then recast himself. I just wonder if anyone will remain who cares. As for the gang: how can you predict the action of a group of highly suggestible dim bulbs? Individually they may have redeeming qualities, but, together, they're a mob. And.....religious intolerance, racial and ethnic bigotry, homophobia and sexism still exist and thrive in such groups. (I reread these lines and realize I sound a bit harsh. Hmmmmm.....I just think Lenny crossed a line.) I'm also upset about the spoilers and I agree with you romancejunkie that religious intolerance, racial and ethnic bigotry, homophobia and sexism still thrive in such groups. We may not like it, but unfortunately it still happens and needs to shown to the viewing public, so they can witness the evilness of it. As for Lenny, I'm waiting to see the actual episode before I pass any judgment on him. I still believe they can be together. |
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Post by dane323 on Nov 21, 2009 2:40:15 GMT -5
After reading these spoilers, here's how I see Lenny...
He's falling deeper & deeper into self-preservation mode. In his mind, literally life & death decisions for him. Fight or Flight...the two most basic of human instincts. And this entire journey towards his homosexual side has been flight flight flight... But when the ultimate choice is laid bare at his feet -- your life or your love's life -- he finally conquers his flight instinct and finds the strength within to finally fight. In the end, he will choose the life of his love over his own life. But will it be too late?
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Post by stl29tide on Nov 21, 2009 3:14:24 GMT -5
After reading these spoilers, here's how I see Lenny... He's falling deeper & deeper into self-preservation mode. In his mind, literally life & death decisions for him. Fight or Flight...the two most basic of human instincts. And this entire journey towards his homosexual side has been flight flight flight... But when the ultimate choice is laid bare at his feet -- your life or your love's life -- he finally conquers his flight instinct and finds the strength within to finally fight. In the end, he will choose the life of his love over his own life. But will it be too late? Oh, I liked that. I hate that it does happen so late though. But, I guess that's a soap for you. I'm really looking forward to the hospital scenes though. That's where we're going to see Lenny finally break and I'm expecting some intense stuff. After he hits rock bottom they can start rebuilding him again. |
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valso
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Post by valso on Nov 21, 2009 9:03:43 GMT -5
I have to be honest, after reading the new spoilers I spent 10 minutes staring at my screen speechless! I'm totally shocked and still upset.
If Lenny and Carsten are still the endgame for the writers (which I still think they are) there is a VERY long way ahead of them to be together because I really can't see Carsten forgive Lenny anytime soon.
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maya
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Post by maya on Nov 21, 2009 15:13:39 GMT -5
After the initial shock I have to say it wasn't a complete surprise for me because I was expecting something major would happen considering the way Lenny was acting.
This was his wake up call but maybe it's too late.
I'm a romantic so I still want Lenny and Carsten end up together but right now I think it would take a lot of time before this would happen. I think that Carsten will stay in the hospital during Felix theater tour and in the meantime I think we will get to see Lenny desperate, guilty and facing the consequences of what he's done and it will be interesting.
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Post by isakja on Nov 21, 2009 16:15:23 GMT -5
Yes, i was expecting that, too. There has to be a "baaam" for Lenny, otherwise he will be aggressive till ... whatever. I for one take the whole story as it comes and then i judge. I mean, there could be nice scences: Lenny regreting his behaviour before (and there a lots of stuff he schould make up for, not only for Carsten beaten up, the last months he was really a jerk), intense scences in the hospital, revenge, fighting for Carsten (i guess, the writers don't make it easy for Lenny (and for us)) and some other things.  |
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Post by placebo on Nov 21, 2009 18:09:57 GMT -5
Grrr, I'm still really unhappy with the latest set of spoilers. I totally get what all of you are saying about Lenny having to reach a point that sends him over the top, having to hit bottom before he can start working out his issues.
However, I don't like the way they send him over the top. I think they could've done it in a less blatant way, IDK, but something that is more based on subtle emotion that make the walls he's built around himself crumble, until he finally reaches a point of "I can't f*ckin do this anymore."
Would've liked that. That would be a different kind of storytelling. Sure, gaybashing is still an issue and I usually like it when soaps decide to deal with the theme. But this was so predictable and it's exactly what Dero had to go through except quite possibly an even more cruel version of it.
And I can't picture them as a couple after that, because - putting myself in Carsten's shoes - I could never forgive Lenny. Also, putting myself in Lenny's shoes, I could never quite forgive myself, which might even lead to some interesting conflict.
Still, I'm so not satisfied with this. >.>
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Post by sheepiefarm on Nov 21, 2009 18:51:28 GMT -5
I tend to agree with Dane's notion of the "bookend" effect.
After all - Lenny & Carsten's friendship began in those hideous days when Lenny was getting bullied, beaten & assaulted at the Bund. It's kinda letting it come full circle and making the "violence" the "trigger" - after all, it was because of that violence that he changed into Pitbull.
Given that we know nothing beyond that point - it could be speculated that subsequently Carsten has a difficult time trusting or forgiving Lenny after this - effectively putting the shoe on the other foot and making Lenny the one yearning/pining after Carsten and having to earn his place by Carsten's side.
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Post by romancejunkie on Nov 21, 2009 20:29:59 GMT -5
I've always heard that good literature and stage/film/TV work enables the reader/viewer to project herself into the story, if not an actual participant, at least an intimate to the characters. Then I ask you, would it be easier to forgive the person who beat the shit out of you in a homosexual panic or the person who with malice and forethought led you into a trap. If, as Valso states, the writers' endgame is Cenny, there is one hell of a lot of repair work to do before a credible coupling can occur. I don't know....of course it's a soap opera, but still the writers must convince us that Lenny regains sufficient character to warrant a devoted relationship with Carsten. For me at least, that's going to require a herculean effort.
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Post by devillies on Nov 21, 2009 22:38:29 GMT -5
wow! the new spoilers, i read then over like 10 times im so shocked, Lenny definitely needs to realize all crappy things he is been doing and finally get it all out in the open i just hoped it would have happened in way that less violent and horrible to carsten .
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mycatfox
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"One sees clearly only with the heart. What is essential is invisible to the eye"
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Post by mycatfox on Nov 22, 2009 0:52:48 GMT -5
The new spoilers couldn't be more shocking, indeed; I still don't know how will I manage to watch the episode where Carsten is savagely beaten, that painful and sad is gonna be...The good thing is Lenny's finally break down comes after that, the so expected break-point that is suppose to bring the new him. The bad thing is the huge work that will have to be done to repair the damage caused during Lenny's big turmoil if the intention of the writers is to bring a credible couple. After what Lenny will do to Carsten, he will have to show BIG redeeming qualities if he wants Carsten (and us) to believe he really deserves him...
And please don't hate me for this, but I'm sure that he will. But don't ask me how, though (ask the writers)
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Post by francescavl on Nov 22, 2009 3:56:37 GMT -5
Despite the sound of the spoilers, I'm trying to stay positive... spoilers don't give out the whole picture, just part of it. They are asettic, they don't tell us the nuances, the emotions... I remember people freaking out at spoilers all the time during McDean (when Craig was going to beat up JP; when Craig fled to Zante with Sarah; when Craig proposed to Sarah, etc), thinking "this time Craig went too far, how are they going to get them together?", but the writers managed to do it in a believable way. Maybe Lenny will be so shaken by these events that we will be able to sympathize with him, and he will earn our and Carsten's forgiveness. I have faith!!! ;D
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Post by dane323 on Nov 22, 2009 4:12:54 GMT -5
I agree with everyone here. Lenny will obviously have some MAJOR hurdles to overcome if he is to regain Carsten's trust & love. Anyone care to make predictions? Here's mine...
Carsten will eventually wake from his coma. He won't remember what happened that fateful day that he was bludgeoned, nor how he wound up in the hospital. He'll simply open his eyes to see Lenny lying asleep next to him in the hospital bed. To Carsten, it will play out like he awoke to the most wonderful of dreams...the love of his life suddenly caring for him, no longer angry and scared. They share kisses and loving carresses, and Lenny eventually takes him home with him. However, an uneasy silence surrounds the events of that day months earlier. Of course, Carsten is told of what happened by Lucy & others. However, only Lenny knows the real truth of his own Judas involvement. Though Lenny remains racked with guilt, he keeps his role secret. But as Carsten's body heals, so does his mind. He begins remembering flashes...horrific snippets of memory...until finally the details of that day become clear again! Carsten is enraged. Lenny panics in a losing battle to explain himself. As Carsten leaves Lenny, Lucy too is horrified by the truth. Suddenly, Lenny finds that he has lost everyone who had remained in his life after his coming out. He starts drinking, loses his job, is thrown out of his apartment... He has basically given up on life. Lucy finds him. Seeing the dire straits that her brother is in, she takes him in to help rehabilitate him. She reaches out to Carsten to please re-enter Lenny's life, help him out of this abyss he has sunk himself into. Carsten is resistant. But that spark of love was never entirely extinguished. Once he actually sees the pitiful state Lenny has become, he finds it in his heart to forgive him. He embraces Lenny again, much to Lenny's sobbing sorrow, and Carsten's role as Lenny's savior is finally complete. Their relationship has begun to truly heal and move forward. They become daytime's newest supercouple....
Oh God, that is sooo incredibly cliche. LOL.
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cheerios
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Post by cheerios on Nov 22, 2009 5:36:53 GMT -5
Obviously, I'm a tad upset by these spoilers. Certainly these events may prove to be the flux which precipitates Lenny's meltdown. Perhaps he can then recast himself. I just wonder if anyone will remain who cares. As for the gang: how can you predict the action of a group of highly suggestible dim bulbs? Individually they may have redeeming qualities, but, together, they're a mob. And.....religious intolerance, racial and ethnic bigotry, homophobia and sexism still thrive in such groups. (I reread these lines and realize I sound a bit harsh. Hmmmmm.....I just think Lenny crossed a line.) You said it so well, the best way to break up a mob is remind them of their individuality. |
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Post by romancejunkie on Nov 22, 2009 9:19:44 GMT -5
Cliche? Perhaps. But beautiful nonetheless. Nice work Dane!
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mycatfox
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"One sees clearly only with the heart. What is essential is invisible to the eye"
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Post by mycatfox on Nov 22, 2009 11:50:45 GMT -5
...Carsten is resistant. But that spark of love was never entirely extinguished. Once he actually sees the pitiful state Lenny has become, he finds it in his heart to forgive him. He embraces Lenny again, much to Lenny's sobbing sorrow, and Carsten's role as Lenny's savior is finally complete. Their relationship has begun to truly heal and move forward. They become daytime's newest supercouple.... Oh God, that is sooo incredibly cliche. LOL. Seriously, brother, you definitely should write the next episodes, you just found a very satisfying resolution. And I specially like how it ends: after overcoming all the drama & angst, they really should become the daytime's newest super-couple. May be everything you wrote sounds cliche, but I love your cliche... |
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lizkarita
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Post by lizkarita on Nov 22, 2009 12:22:42 GMT -5
I agree with everyone else, Dane, your story sounds really awesome! I'd totally love it if it happened that way! It's a really great cliche. I like it especially, because they'd be together first for a while, therefore some love scenes involved, before they broke up again, instead of having to wait a loooong time until finally Carsten forgives Lenny and they can actually be together. However, I fear that we're in for a long wait until Carsten gets over everything and is ready to forgive Lenny... And, I also had tears in my eyes when I first read the spoilers, because suddenly I had beaten-up!Carsten in my head and I felt so bad for him! Sadness, in addition with great shock... The shock has slightly worn off and I'm partially scared, partially excited for this storyline, because there will be a lot of drama and much splendid acting involved, I'm sure... |
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Wow! I'm practically speechless! No wait, here comes my mouth...
