Gute Zeiten Schlechte Zeiten - General Discussion

[safety]

Hi guys it's been a while since my last CENNY vid, but this is a special occasion because it is a birthday present for me and my friends and what else satisfying than to celebrate with a video of my favorite couple? ^~^ - nothing - so ENJOY THE VID & I HOPE YOU LIKE IT!!

[maggie]

Yesterday Lenny and Carsten were mentioned. Lenny send Iris a Ticket to Rosenheim, because he want that she spend Christmas with him and Carsten. So she's going...

Merry Christmas to all of you...

[Zathras]

Yay! Thanks for the note, maggie

[a]

Dec 23, 2010 14:11:54 GMT -5 maggie said:

Yesterday Lenny and Carsten were mentioned. Lenny send Iris a Ticket to Rosenheim, because he want that she spend Christmas with him and Carsten. So she's going...

[dm]video/xg9hj5_gzsz-21-22-23-12-2010_shortfilms[/dm]
Merry Christmas!!!

[Zathras]

Danke, alienamy!

So, is Iris gone from the show now? It sure sounded like it.

[rtgtx]

Thanks Amy. Is Alexander going to Uganda and leaving the show as well?

[sonnenstern]

Dec 24, 2010 12:32:44 GMT -5 rtgtx said:

Thanks Amy. Is Alexander going to Uganda and leaving the show as well?

No Alexander stay in Berlin.

[safety]

I Will never forget this storyline! *Lenny and Carsten will be Forever in my Heart*



Enjoy it! ^~^

[Zathras]

Nice

[beached11]

Where can i watch this storyline with english subs?

[Zathras]

See this post by rtgtx a couple of threads down. I'm not aware of any links other than what she posted there. That post is about 5 months old, and I haven't checked that all of those clips are still there.

[Duskysoda]

I wonder how this show deals with Lenny and Carsten's absence in december 2011? Are they ever mentioned?

[emarti10]

hey guys i'm new to this site but i've been watching the lenny/carsten story with english from 2 places

first part:
www.dailymotion.com/video/xcej2j_lenny-carsten-26-02-10-english-subt_shortfilms

second part from rtgtx, but i haven't found the VERY beginning, as in when they met each other.

[Zathras]

Welcome .

rtgtx posted a good list of episode clips here. I just checked a few of the very old links, and they've since been removed. I don't know if there are any other sources around.

[chocofrog]

Just wanted to drop by and say that I'm currently rewatching a bit. Those were really good times, talking with you guys about them etc.! I'm still watching the series a bit now and am currently a shipper of Patrick and Dominik if you remember them (Carsten's friend and his cousin that he always complained about), but of course they're not officially a couple, they're "brothers" (Patrick has been adopted) now. xD

[patenze]

I discovered the story of Lenny and Carsten rather late, which is a shame, because I would've had the possibility to see everything on TV, as I live in Germany. Sadly, it's rather hard to find any videos from before November 2009, when muerte0805 started posting. Still, I've had some luck.

Here is the profile of a YouTube user who has posted many of the missing videos from the end of 2008 and the beginning of 2009:

www.youtube.com/user/pehuda/videos?view=1

The first and the third playlists are subtitled, the second one isn't.

There are several parts missing, e.g. between parts 55 and 56 almost a month has passed. I could find some of the missing parts from September 2009 here:

www.youtube.com/user/dabamilu/videos

The last three videos are from 16.09., 17.09. and 18.09. No subtitles again.

I could also find several key subtitled videos on 56.com, like the only missing video from muerte's playlist from 15.02.2010 (part 75), the video where Carsten calls Emily 'alibi girlfriend', one of my personal favourites - the video in which Lenny is jealous of Dominik, some of the Carsten/Dominik videos, the video with Lenny and Carsten on the lake, where the story starts, etc., but honestly, this site sucks so much and I'm totally frustrated with it. It won't load about any video I've tried, the best it has managed is about 5 minutes and then it just stops loading. I've managed to see only three videos so far, and I've been trying for over a week... so if anyone has a cure, please share it with me. Otherwise, if anyone finds some of these videos on another site, please let me know. Subtitles are not needed in my case, I speak German.

Hope I could help, at least a little. :-)

[HQ75]

miss mimi is uploading this storyline
LC - 03.09.2009 - Eng Sub

[justinate]

Seeing this makes me sad. It's a painful reminder of how exclusionary German soaps have become. They used to lead the world in representing gays and especially male intimacy, and now ... sigh. I'd be curious to know what made the current predicament come about. Do the showrunners think we live in a post-gay world? Germany is the only country in Western Europe (besides Italy) to deny marriage equality, so I find that hard to swallow. Did they get reprimanded by the censors for the steamy gay love scenes they used to show? Or have German viewers expressed revulsion at gay representation on their soaps? Obviously the country is going through big demographic and ideological shifts; I can't help fearing that is what's to blame.

[angel]

I am a german, and I dont know the reason for sure. But it makes me also sad.
I think it have mostly do with a few reasons that had changed:
1. Other persons are in charge in the TV business now in general, than 1-2 decades back.
2. No Gays and Lesbian celebs and in the TV business anymore in germany: which said their opinion out loud and in the cameras.
3. Also a little bit, LGBT its nothing special anymore, a few decades back, it was something new, something that gots headlines, something to promote a show, also word of mouth. Now its mostly a regardless mentality in the society, like who cares.

Maybe tommorow I can explain the points more in detail, when I have more time.

[ronweasley]

I'm not sure if I should post this, because it's still possible that it leads to nothing. So please take it with a grain of salt.

This week a new main cast arrived arrived in GZSZ (Moritz Bode played by Lennart Borchert), and it's at least possible if not somewhat likely that he's gay. I know I'm not the only one who suspects this. And Soaps aren't exactly subtle with their hints/foreshadowing. Also, according to the spoilers a for the (straight) Nihat character unknown male person tries to flirt with him. It could very well be Moritz, as the scene is supposed to take place in Jo Gerner's office, and Moritz is Gerner's stepson and moved in with him.

But a few things:

1. As I said, it's still not sure yet. It might not be Moritz.
2. Even if it is, soaps in Germany currently run under Corona regulations. Which basically means all the actors have to keep their distance. Also this week, long time character Alexander Cöster (Lenny's father) died, and thanks to Corona none of her friends could even hug Alexander's widow to console her. They basically all stand at the different end of the room and look sad. So there's no way, that there's a new love story, or at least one that involves physical contact onscreen, right now.
3. And also, even if there is one at some point, I don't think it will be with the character Nihat. Because not only is Nihat significantly older than Moritz (who is either a teenager or a very young twen), I also can't see him as gay at all. But one never knows in soaps. I couldn't see a lot of things working, and some of them did in the end.

[justinate]

Thanks for the news/rumour.

I really hope you are right about the introduction of a gay character on GZSZ. It's been a very long time since they had a gay character, and gay representation on German soaps in general has declined badly in recent years, which is especially sad considering how they used to lead the way globally. Long before any of the English speaking countries would even contemplate having a regular gay character, the Germans were actually depicting gay sex onscreen.

Unless I'm mistaken, the only German soap flying the flag for gay representation these days is Unter Uns, since Lindenstrasse was cancelled earlier this year (anyway their gay couple was very peripheral and only appeared in the last few months of the show). Even AWZ, which had a couple of very memorable, internationally popular gay romances, has now been gay-free for years. (Deniz is still there but I don't count him since they were clear he will never fall in love with a man ever again.)

It's a pity how coronavirus has wreaked havoc on filming, especially physical contact, but I hope they won't let it impede any romantic or coming-out story for another year (or more) until a vaccine is available. I will be the first to admit the difficulty of telling a romance (gay or straight) without physical intimacy, but at least it's something uniformly applied to all couples regardless of sexuality. I still find UU bizarre in that their married gay couple are the only ones who don't get intimate scenes - even though both actors have done bed scenes with other male characters. (Do the actors have a problem with each other?)

The actor playing Moritz is 21, so I assume his character's the same age if not younger. So I do hope they give him an age-appropriate love interest. Nothing against May-December romances but unfortunately it tends to feed into some bigoted stereotypes.

On a separate note, how did they explain Lenny's absence for his father's funeral? I presume he did not return for it.

[ronweasley]

Jun 20, 2020 11:17:10 GMT -5 justinate said:

Thanks for the news/rumour.

I really hope you are right about the introduction of a gay character on GZSZ. It's been a very long time since they had a gay character, and gay representation on German soaps in general has declined badly in recent years, which is especially sad considering how they used to lead the way globally. Long before any of the English speaking countries would even contemplate having a regular gay character, the Germans were actually depicting gay sex onscreen.

Unless I'm mistaken, the only German soap flying the flag for gay representation these days is Unter Uns, since Lindenstrasse was cancelled earlier this year (anyway their gay couple was very peripheral and only appeared in the last few months of the show). Even AWZ, which had a couple of very memorable, internationally popular gay romances, has now been gay-free for years. (Deniz is still there but I don't count him since they were clear he will never fall in love with a man ever again.)

It's a pity how coronavirus has wreaked havoc on filming, especially physical contact, but I hope they won't let it impede any romantic or coming-out story for another year (or more) until a vaccine is available. I will be the first to admit the difficulty of telling a romance (gay or straight) without physical intimacy, but at least it's something uniformly applied to all couples regardless of sexuality. I still find UU bizarre in that their married gay couple are the only ones who don't get intimate scenes - even though both actors have done bed scenes with other male characters. (Do the actors have a problem with each other?)

The actor playing Moritz is 21, so I assume his character's the same age if not younger. So I do hope they give him an age-appropriate love interest. Nothing against May-December romances but unfortunately it tends to feed into some bigoted stereotypes.

On a separate note, how did they explain Lenny's absence for his father's funeral? I presume he did not return for it.

With the exception of the final episode, I haven't seen Lindenstraße for a very long time. So I can't say how their gay couple in the end was treated. In fact, I have no idea who this couple was. But this show already depicted homosexual love storys back in the 1980s, when quite a few people still considered it a scandal. There was even an outcry in some media, but they never wavered and kept their homosexual couples. Sometimes even several at a time, helped by the fact, that they also had about twice as much main cast members as the German dailys.

@unter uns: Nope, Lars Steinhöfel and Timothy Boldt are pretty close friends. At least as far as I can tell from social media, I freely admit that it can be misleading, but I don't think it is in this case. Years before the Ringsy storyline began and when the two characters were still enemies (so it was nothing to push the couple), Steinhöfel and Boldt already posted pics in Social Media about them doing stuff like Partying together, doing stuff together etc. And that remained over the years and is still the case. And it's not that they are doing this with every UU cast member. 

According to rumours, it were Timothy Boldt and Eric Stehfest (Yannick) who didn't like each other very much. But I don't know if that's true.

@gzsz: I may have expressed myself badly, but the age difference wouldn't be a May-December romance either. Nihat is in his early thirties. For me it's more the age difference coupled with the fact that I don't think they would write Nihat as gay.

@funeral: It did not happen yet. But there were some casting news a while ago from a source that proved to be pretty reliable in the past, that Sarah Tkotsch as Lucy Cöster would return for a guest appearance. This was long before any rumours about Alexander's death sicked through. Judging from the time she was supposed to shoot, it could very well have been for the funeral, and there's a possibility that the other Cösters could have returned as well. However, it is doubtful, if we'll see the funeral. Because it must have been shot around April, and at this time it was forbidden to meet more than one person at the same time, that isn't part of your household => Corona regulations. So they may have scrapped the funeral.

[justinate]

Jun 20, 2020 13:05:04 GMT -5 ronweasley said:

With the exception of the final episode, I haven't seen Lindenstraße for a very long time. So I can't say how their gay couple in the end was treated. In fact, I have no idea who this couple was. But this show already depicted homosexual love storys back in the 1980s, when quite a few people still considered it a scandal. There was even an outcry in some media, but they never wavered and kept their homosexual couples. Sometimes even several at a time, helped by the fact, that they also had about twice as much main cast members as the German dailys.

@unter uns: Nope, Lars Steinhöfel and Timothy Boldt are pretty close friends. At least as far as I can tell from social media, I freely admit that it can be misleading, but I don't think it is in this case. Years before the Ringsy storyline began and when the two characters were still enemies (so it was nothing to push the couple), Steinhöfel and Boldt already posted pics in Social Media about them doing stuff like Partying together, doing stuff together etc. And that remained over the years and is still the case. And it's not that they are doing this with every UU cast member. 

According to rumours, it were Timothy Boldt and Eric Stehfest (Yannick) who didn't like each other very much. But I don't know if that's true.

@gzsz: I may have expressed myself badly, but the age difference wouldn't be a May-December romance either. Nihat is in his early thirties. For me it's more the age difference coupled with the fact that I don't think they would write Nihat as gay.

@funeral: It did not happen yet. But there were some casting news a while ago from a source that proved to be pretty reliable in the past, that Sarah Tkotsch as Lucy Cöster would return for a guest appearance. This was long before any rumours about Alexander's death sicked through. Judging from the time she was supposed to shoot, it could very well have been for the funeral, and there's a possibility that the other Cösters could have returned as well. However, it is doubtful, if we'll see the funeral. Because it must have been shot around April, and at this time it was forbidden to meet more than one person at the same time, that isn't part of your household => Corona regulations. So they may have scrapped the funeral.

Thanks for addressing all my points!

I'm sorry I missed the earlier gay couples on Lindenstraße. I actually thought this was their first one. It only came to my attention late last year when a long-running teen character, Paul, came out to his parents (also long-time characters). He had an on-off-on again relationship with another, slightly older teen named Mika (not part of the main cast) who lived in a hippie commune, which caused some conflict with Paul's parents, particularly his mother. But it was resolved fairly quickly and they were back together by the end of the show and accepted by Paul's parents. The boys' relationship was never the main story of any episode, and after the initial coupling, their airtime focused more on how the parents reacted to Paul getting sucked into Mika's activism. At the same time they had a trans character (didn't follow their story so not sure if they were supposed to be transgender or cross-dressing) played by Martin Walde who I remembered from his appearance on AWZ.

Regarding UU, maybe the actors are too good friends and they find it weird portraying sexual scenes with each other. It would be more believable as an excuse in their case than when EastEnders' Danny Walters justified not wanting to do a romantic story with Harry Reid, before Danny's historic homophobic tweets were exposed. At least both Timothy and Lars have done intimate scenes with other actors before (and Lars is openly gay). But I still think it hurts their story and gives the impression that they aren't being treated equally with the straight couples.

As for Nihat-Moritz (if indeed they will be a couple), I would classify that as having a May-December element if Moritz is still a teen and Nihat is ~15 years older. It's not only when 50/60 year olds have affairs with people in their 20s/30s. Is there any other existing character on the show right now who might be gay/bi and therefore could be a love interest for a new gay character? It would be iffy to bring in two new gay characters and pair them up. While it would be nice (personally) to see a 30/40-something couple who are already established in their sexuality, that's something UU already have.

One point mentioned upthread that I find depressing (if true) is that German soaps no longer see featuring queer male characters as a priority because it's not "in trend". Simply having a queer character isn't a milestone anymore, and isn't a news-worthy item, but they should still weave such characters into the fabric of the show. The idea that they only featured queer male characters/romances in order to jump on a bandwagon that has now bolted, is extremely disappointing and frankly offensive.

[ronweasley]

Jun 21, 2020 7:34:09 GMT -5 justinate said:

Is there any other existing character on the show right now who might be gay/bi and therefore could be a love interest for a new gay character?

GZSZ has a lesbian recurring character and a female main cast member that at least once slept with another female, but I assume that's not what you mean.

I checked the cast list on wikipedia to make sure that I didn't forget someone, but after reading this Nihat might indeed the best fit for Moritz (or maybe the least unlikely?) of the current main cast. The Problem is, that they are all so old compared to Moritz. Almost all of them are in their mid-thirties to fourties. And none of them have given any signs so far to be into men.

The only one that is around Moritz' age is Jonas Seefeld. I am biased here, because he's one of my least favourite characters in this soap ever. I don't like the character, I don't like the acting and when the actor was on the German version of "I'm a celebrity, get me out of here" last year, I didn't like him very much either. But even trying to look at it from an unbiased point of view, I can't really see the character as gay. Just my opinion, others might disagree.

However, in one of his first scenes, Moritz got a phone call from someone called Henry, which he didn't answer. In the series, he returned from Australia. So he might have met someone there and maybe the character will follow him to Berlin. If the second character appears specifically because he already knew Moritz and wants to see him, it wouldn't be iffy.

By the way, the scenes with someone trying to flirt with Nihat in Gerner's office are supposed to air next week on TVNow. TVNow airs the episodes of their daily soaps one week prior to the TV broadcast. So I may at least tell you soon, if Moritz really is the character who tries to flirt with Nihat.

[justinate]

Jun 21, 2020 9:02:30 GMT -5 ronweasley said:

GZSZ has a lesbian recurring character and a female main cast member that at least once slept with another female, but I assume that's not what you mean.

I checked the cast list on wikipedia to make sure that I didn't forget someone, but after reading this Nihat might indeed the best fit for Moritz (or maybe the least unlikely?) of the current main cast. The Problem is, that they are all so old compared to Moritz. Almost all of them are in their mid-thirties to fourties. And none of them have given any signs so far to be into men.

The only one that is around Moritz' age is Jonas Seefeld. I am biased here, because he's one of my least favourite characters in this soap ever. I don't like the character, I don't like the acting and when the actor was on the German version of "I'm a celebrity, get me out of here" last year, I didn't like him very much either. But even trying to look at it from an unbiased point of view, I can't really see the character as gay. Just my opinion, others might disagree.

However, in one of his first scenes, Moritz got a phone call from someone called Henry, which he didn't answer. In the series, he returned from Australia. So he might have met someone there and maybe the character will follow him to Berlin. If the second character appears specifically because he already knew Moritz and wants to see him, it wouldn't be iffy.

By the way, the scenes with someone trying to flirt with Nihat in Gerner's office are supposed to air next week on TVNow. TVNow airs the episodes of their daily soaps one week prior to the TV broadcast. So I may at least tell you soon, if Moritz really is the character who tries to flirt with Nihat.

Cool, I look forward to finding out whether we'll get new gay representation on GZSZ. I checked out both Nihat and Jonas after you mentioned them - is it bad that my first reaction upon seeing both actors was "hey, isn't that the guy who appeared naked in ...?" LOL! (Timur is really attractive, and he doesn't really look that much older - although in real life the actors are 10 years apart.)

When I spoke about pairing up two new gay characters being iffy, I meant that the audience wouldn't have much of an investment in either character. At least with an established or legacy character (not sure if Moritz is one?), they are better attached to the fabric of the show and to the fanbase. I found that to be the problem of AWZ's last gay couple - neither Joscha nor Kai had any real roots on the show and they were swiftly written out once they got together.