General Discussion - EastEnders

[jnn111]

Jul 14, 2009 2:19:49 GMT -5 dalia said:

i think my biggest problem with the storyline is Christian is so INTO Syed - but why? i dunno, it seems to have come out of nowhere, they kissed and suddenly Christian is totally hot for him. i wish they had built it up a bit more.

That is a valid point, but I was under the impression that they were good friends and to for Christian to find out that Sayed may be gay may be a motivation. Of course, I don't really follow the show, so eh...

[HQ75]

Jul 14, 2009 2:19:49 GMT -5 dalia said:

i think my biggest problem with the storyline is Christian is so INTO Syed - but why? i dunno, it seems to have come out of nowhere, they kissed and suddenly Christian is totally hot for him. i wish they had built it up a bit more.

I think Christian and Syed didn't just kiss, they must have had sex the night they kissed (we just didn't see it on screen)

Having heard them talk about it yesterday (July 13) now makes Christian's response make a lot more sense.

I wish the show runners of the program has been able to be a bit more overt at the time just so folks weren't so confused.

I think sex can change the way you feel about someone. I don't think Christian is in love with Syed, but they obviously have a lot of affection for each other before the kiss (which Syed resisted by snarking all the time) and once you sleep with some, there are consequences.

Christian has had a lot of rejection lately and it's made him really think about where is life is going (romantically). I think part of him wants to be "open" to somebody and Syed happened to make a move on him in the midst of his thinking about these kinds of things and he sees potential for them together.

Christian says to Syed that he (Christian) has had a lot of one night stands himself and he knows the difference between "just sex" and sex that's meaningful and he thinks that Syed does as well.

Christian's saying that the felt something real when they went to bed together and it's obvious that Syed felt something or he wouldn't be behaving so crazy every time Christian brings up another man.

I get why Christian thinks it's wrong that Syed (who made the first move, after all) would just ignore those feelings in order to live a life with Amira that's a lie.

But I also understand where Syed is coming from (tradition and all)

I think the Most Important Thing from yesterday is the revelation that Syed has had 4 different one night stands with men so this attraction is not new to him and his acting on his feeling with Christian takes on a different light for me.

I don't think Syed has ever slept with Amira (as is the custom) so he's never had to deal with the potential sexual aspect of their relationship (I don't even know if he's ever had sex with a woman, it would make sense that he hasn't)

If Syed couldn't control his attraction to Christian (in such dangerous, close quarters with his family around him constantly) it is reasonable to expect that he would continue to have flings with men once he is married to Amira and probably get caught doing so (Amira is not stupid).

So there are many issues at stake.

Syed's attraction to men in general and his ability to repress it.

Syed's feelings for Christian (you don't get jealous unless you care)

Syed's relationship with Amira (I actually really like her, she's snarky and funny and a bit manipulative but seems to have a heart)

Syed's desire for his mother's approval (THE BIGGEST ISSUE)

I think Syed's relationship to his religion has already been tested and he's clearly made "allowances" for his behavior regarding men, which to me just means that maybe some of the beliefs of Islam are harder for him to adhere to (much like many young folks brought up in a religious environment)

I love Christian and it make sad that's always so isolated and never gets to have an inner life. Like he should be able to talk to his sister about what's happening and know that she will keep his trust. He needs to talk to someone because Syed is in no condition to deal.

I love Christian as a character. He's what I call an integrated man (someone who's comfortable with both the feminine and masculine aspects of his identity) and he's proud to be gay which I love and he doesn't let anyone treat him badly without giving them a piece of his mind but he's loyal and loving and a great friend/brother/uncle.

[HQ75]

Syed loves Amira. I believe that. He loves his family and his culture. Loving is not the same as being "in love" and we have no idea if Syed is physically attracted to Amira because it hasn't been discussed yet. Thousands of men marry women they truly love but don't have a physical desire for (due to family, societal or religious pressure). Syed would be no different in that respect should he chose to marry Amira.

People arrange marriages based upon who they think will be a beneficial match. It has very little to do with desire, attraction or love. Even a man who has questions about his sexuality or is choosing to be closeted still wants to feel loved and marrying someone you love is a much better prospect than marrying a complete strange.

Syed and Christian are both gorgeous men who are intelligent and have business savvy. They don't need to be with each other to be successful or to have a boyfriend and I think how they feel about each other is obviously deeper than just physical attraction or a calculated business move being even thinking about being together puts them BOTH at risk personally and professional (Syed all the moreso)

We don't actually know anything about what Christian and Syed's feelings for each other are explicitly. We know that they are attracted to in each other and that they have a great affection for each other.

There is no evidence that being rejected by your father makes you gay or bisexual. No one likes to be rejected by a parent. It hurts you regardless of who you are but it's a more than a bit reductive and to see some one-to-one correlation between being rejected by your father and "becoming" a gay or bisexual man.

Maybe being rejected by a parent makes you rebel or feel crazy or careless or might inspire you to be reckless in your behavior but it doesn't alter your sexual orientation (and it wouldn't explain the "Christian" situation).

I don't buy the idea that Syed sleeps with men because his father rejected him or that all men just look at each other like pretty coats they want to try on

I would think Syed sleeps with men (has done so repeatedly) is because he likes having sex with men. He could easily sleep with girls or drink heavily or get lots of tattoos and piercings if he just wanted to be "unchaste" or to rebel against his father.

But, enough said by me. I don't want to get into a back and forth about it. I'll leave it to the rest of the folks to weigh in with what they think.

[dorothy]

I loved that Christian and Syed were finally able to have a real conversation about what happened between them. I just hope that somewhere down the road Syed can reconcile his desire to be a "good boy" with his sexual orientation. He has a long way to go. Christian may be able to help if they can talk (as they did yesterday) without all the threats and posturing. I think they've set up a potentially very interesting story -- I hope they don't trivialize it by wrapping it all up neatly and quickly. It's Syed's journey that has so much promise.

[final81]

Christian & Syed Part 10

[ivaniv]

I just realised one sad difference between German and British soaps. In German ones they do things, in British they talk about doing them If something changes on Thursday I'll take it back, but I think I won't have to

[yahoorain]

Jul 14, 2009 16:03:06 GMT -5 @ivaniv said:

I just realised one sad difference between German and British soaps. In German ones they do things, in British they talk about doing them If something changes on Thursday I'll take it back, but I think I won't have to

I believe if the spoilers are correct between this episode and the next one they will have slept together....

[harmonium]

Thanks for the new clip. Just needed clarification on something. They haven't slept together rite? Coz it's pretty confusing when they were talking about "one night stands" previously. Coz after careful listening to that particular conversation (yes, I'm crazy. Hehehe), it seems like they have sealed the deal, but I thought it was just a kiss and nothing after that has suggested that they had sex together. Weird. But it's funny that the spoilers are stating they will be sleeping together (unless that's for the 2nd time but wouldn't it be weird if they decide to mention the 2nd time and not the 1st time?)

Anyway, it's nice to see that Syed is slowly giving into "temptation". It's clearly seen that he is less uptight when he is not resisting Christian. I guess why Christian appeals to Syed is because Christian is a complete opposite of what he is and maybe sub-consciously aspired to be - a free, open and confident man. That's why opposite attracts.

I just hope all things end well even if they didn't end up together. And I hope Amira will be alright. I like Amira, even though she is a spoilt brat but she did try her best to change herself for Syed's sake.

[ivaniv]

From what they talked about I understood they already had sex and that now Christian asked him again. It would seem a bit too much all the agonising over one kiss that hardly took 1 second before they rolled the credits and that was it.

[HQ75]

Ivan. I agree.
When Christian says the thing about "Have you done this before" to Syed, there is no way that he's just talking about "a kiss". He talks about having had "one night stands" and knowing the difference between those one-offs and being with Syed feeling "real".

I don't get why that's so hard for people to believe just because they didn't "see" it happen.

Also, when Christian is in the pub (when he was teasing Amira about kissing a girl at school) and says "What happened between us", it was clear that they'd has sex, not just kissed.

There have been plenty of "straight" male characters who've had sex with a gay man and then tried to pretend it never happened right to the gay man's face. It's magical thinking on their part brought on by fear or whatever.

I loved Monday's episode so much because that conversation was so necessary and real.

I know that the writers are trying to be careful and respectful in telling Syed's story but I think it does a disservice to the story that things aren't more explicitly stated in some of the conversations.

I think the halted, stilted way of half talking is probably more realistic given who the characters are and how uptight and terrified Syed is but for some of the viewers just don't do "nuance" or "reading between the lines' very well and miss out on key elements of the story because the dialogue is fast and furious and Syed and Christian don't get tons of screen time.

[dorothy]

I have to agree that after their conversation on Monday it would seem that first kiss led to much more than we were shown. Perhaps the point is that the physical aspects of this relationship aren't what's important, that it's Syed's ambivalence and the growing affection between the two that matters.

Final81, thank you so much for posting clips!

[ivaniv]

It feels a bit strange with UK soaps, one has to have a shirt on, they only have to talk about it in riddles so that it goes over people's heads. It does not feel like we have 21st century already

[HQ75]

I think Diederick Santer meant that we wouldn't SEE the sexual relationship on screen (not that Christian and Syed wouldn't have a sexual relationship)


"This is not a story about Syed and Christian's physical relationship - we don't see anything beyond one kiss. It's more about the inner turmoil and conflict Syed endures trying to remain true to his faith while questioning his sexuality."

He doesn't say that there won't be a sexual relationship, just that we won't see it.

He was trying to say that what he intended to show (literally in terms of what folks saw on screen) was the emotional aspects of Syed's response and the romantic "traditional" love story aspects between Christian and Syed. The sex isn't really the issue for Syed when it comes to Christian (now that we know he's done it before), it's his feelings for Christian that matter this time.

I truly believe that he never meant to imply that Syed and Christian would not have sex but that it wasn't the most important thing.

For Syed's character, knowing that he's had sex with men before that was meaningless Christian (in terms of his heart)makes his relationship with Christian feel a lot more organic and real and significant because we no know that Syed knows what he's doing.

4 one night stands with other men is enough to know whether or not you want to be with men sexually (even if Syed isn't ready to deal with what that means for him religion, family and Amira wise)

Christian and Lee definitely had more explicit screen time (by British or US) standards than Christian and Syed so I think it's definitely the wanting to be respectful to Islam that might be keeping stuff off the screen for the most part.

I really do wish the UK and US could just get over this thing with gay men and lesbians and sex scenes. Romance and sex scenes are a big part of how you draw an audience in to a couple, how you engaged them and make them feel like they are part of the love story. The first kiss, the first time you make love, all of that is part of embracing a couple on screen and it's sad when that part is mostly left to the imagination if for no other reason than viewers can have completely different ideas of what's going on with the couple (sexually, physically) than what the writers intend because viewers need the visual imprint.

I would just so love to see Christian in a long term relationship and since the Masoods and and Christian's families are now completely dependent upon each other financially, if things don't work out it will be a disaster and I worry that Christian will be made the scapegoat.


Though I guess it remains to be seen what will happen if this storyline is well received.

[ivaniv]

We got Syed in _that_ shirt today

[final81]

Christian & Syed Part 11

[dorothy]

Thanks for the caps and the clip!

Poor Christian. Syed is so deep in denial. I'm enjoying this story, but I wish we could SEE a little more of the relationship between Syed and Christian.

[ivaniv]

BTW if we take away a religion angle that we did not see much of anyway, it's shaping itself a bit like Hollyoaks. And as I said - just talking about it They may not have offended all the crazies, but they are offending me a bit now.

[harmonium]

Thanks for the new clip. As usual and expected, Syed (aka the frantic confused GAY) decided to pull out the usual stunt. I feel so bad for Amira. She really doesn't deserve this. After what happened with her family, I can't imagine how will she feel or react once she finds out Syed is gay. And poor Christian, he has really poor luck with guys. Part of me wish he will give up Syed after what Syed has done to him. Can't wait to see how things play out. I just hope they don't make Christian the "bad" guy with him blurting out the truth. Syed needs a revelation FAST!!

[jnn111]

OMG, very predictable, but i LOVED IT!!!

I do believe they are waiting for the religion aspect until Syed comes out.


Awwww... Hollyoaks and McDean.. Le sigh.. ;D ;D I miss them...

[jnn111]

Jul 16, 2009 16:02:17 GMT -5 @ivaniv said:

We got Syed in _that_ shirt today

Thank you Ivan... HOT HOT HOT!!! ;D

[HQ75]

I want Christian to walk away. Get some distance. Don't give Syed the satisfaction of seeing how much he has hurt him. Syed did that in public to make a point to Christian. Point made.

They may have to work together but Christian needs to get some distance AND find someone he can trust to talk to that isn't Roxie or Jane (maybe that friend who showed up for his birthday)

If Syed cares at all about Christian he should have to step up and be man about it and deal with the mess he has made.

He's not the first gay muslim and he won't be the last.

I have been out since I was 17 and I'm 41 now and it's hard to be gay.
There is no way around it. It takes courage to be a honest, open, out gay person who is PROUD to be gay (despite the fact that the world WANTS you to be ashamed.)

You have to put up with crap that straight people simply don't and you have to deal with society judging and evaluating your most private and personal decision (children, marriage, etc)

People like to throw out the "love is love" "it doesn't matter who you love" "gender doesn't matter"

When you are gay or a bisexual dating someone of the same gender, it DOES matter. It's matters all the time (unless you are isolated in some rural community or closeted).

Homophobia and heterosexism put some much social, religious and legal pressure on gays and lesbians ABOUT our romantic lives that it's amazing we ever manage to get together and have happy, healthy relationships and sex lives.

But we do, ever minute of every second of every day, we come out, we deal with the crap and we make a way out of now way.

That's why I resent people who chose to be closeted. I know folks make that choice. I know it is their personal right to make that choice.

But there are all kinds of personal choices that people make about their lives that have a ripple effect on others and I guess that's the context in which I see Syed.

Syed's personal choice to be closeted is hurting not just himself and Christian but will inevitably hurt Amira and his parents.

He's has 4 one night stands in the past and has now slept with Christian twice and as Christian says, he would do it again and deny it again and rinse, repeat if Christian lets him.

I love the energy between these characters which is a testament to the actors because so much of what you usually need from a romantic pairing is the romance (the kissing, the physical intimacy, the pillow talk).

We feel their desire and affection for each other only because the actors have been able to pull it off so I give them much kudos.

I don't really think of them as being in a relationship yet. I don't now that that's the right word because there is no commitment on Syed's part (not even a commitment to acknowledge that they care about each other in a romantic way).

I hope they give this story a lot of time and don't rush through it the way they did with Lee or cop out by having Syed run away but I also don't see how they could possible deal with the fallout that would be created if Syed ever came out.

[carld2]

Jul 17, 2009 0:45:49 GMT -5 @ivaniv said:

BTW if we take away a religion angle that we did not see much of anyway, it's shaping itself a bit like Hollyoaks. And as I said - just talking about it They may not have offended all the crazies, but they are offending me a bit now.

Hollyoaks was better paced than this story. McDean became very plot-driven but I at least understood most of why they fell in love and were drawn to each other, even if the writing never quite went into detail of why they fell for each other.

Everything with Syed and Christian is so fast. Since almost all the relationship takes place offcamera, I have no way of knowing why they care about each other, or if they even do. Is this only about Christian's pride? Is Syed only trying to enjoy a forbidden life?

I don't think anyone in this story comes across sympathetically and it's too bad because this is a story which could have built for a long time. Instead everything is rushed and they almost don't seem to want viewers to be invested. Is the subject matter too hot for the show to delve into, so instead they only wanted the headlines?

[final81]

Christian & Syed Part 12

[karina]

Thank you, thank you, thank you!

[karina]

They won't be on next week?