Spoiler Discussion - Goede Tijden Slechte Tijden

[LadyArmand]

May 25, 2013 13:32:10 GMT -5 GTSTfanMark said:

I watched the episode again and I still think it's manslaughter. I think for murder it should have been Aysen's intention to kill Danny. That the reason she was there was to kill him. And I don't believe it was.

Just to be clear, I'm not defending that psycho girl. I think she should go to jail for several years. There's no excuse. She broke into the apartment. She had no reason to be there. And she should have known that Danny wouldn't be happy to see her there. She should have left when Danny told her so.

I did a Wikipedia search and I saw there are two different versions of manslaughter. Voluntary manslaughter and involuntary manslaughter. I think voluntary manslaughter is what happened with Aysen and Danny:

"Voluntary manslaughter occurs either when the defendant kills with malice aforethought (intention to kill or cause serious harm), but there are mitigating circumstances which reduce culpability, or when the defendant kills only with an intent to cause serious bodily harm."

I also saw that for manslaughter in the Netherlands you can get a prison sentence of 15 years. Not sure if that information is still accurate. I think Aysen, because she covered it up and planted false evidence, should get the maximum sentence.

Oh well, I'm not a legal expert. And the legal system on soaps can be different than the legal system in real life. The important thing is that Aysen will be caught. ;D

May 25, 2013 10:41:11 GMT -5 Hawthorne said:

Did she tell Nuran everything?

Yes, Nuran knows everything.

In America it might be considered homicide with mitigating circumstances, because his death occurred during the commission of another crime. It might not have been her intention to kill him, but as a direct result of her actions he died. A case could be made she was looking for an excuse because of the malice she held towards him because of her sister. That and the fact that she lied to cover herself coupled with the fact that she planted and tampered with evidence. But like you said Mark soap justice is completely different than real justice. I'm just glad she is going to get caught, because I never liked the character. I've never found anything even slightly redeeming or sympattic about her.

[Hawthorne]

I think you are right, Mark, because GTST is a Dutch show and where Dutch people view the line between manslaughter and murder is probably what the writers intended.

Here in the U.S. the line varies by state, but in general it is much easier to get charged with murder. I took this from a legal dictionary and I think it applies to what Aysen did:

"Many states use the California definition of implied malice to describe an unintentional killing that is charged as murder because the defendant intended to do serious bodily injury, or acted with extreme recklessness. For example, if an aggressor punches a victim in the nose, intending only to injure the victim's face, the aggressor may be charged with murder if the victim dies from the blow. The infliction of serious bodily injury becomes the equivalent of an intent to kill when the victim dies. Although the aggressor in such a case did not have the express desire to kill the victim, he or she would not be charged with assault, but with murder. To understand why, it is helpful to consider the alternative: When a person dies at the hands of an aggressor, it does not sit well with the public conscience to preclude a murder charge simply because the aggressor intended only to do serious bodily injury."

So to most Americans, I think, it's clearly murder. But Aysen might still face a murder charge in the show because she's the only one who knows she wasn't planning to kill Danny. All the evidence points to murder.

I'm glad I now know that Nuran knows everything because it's an obvious setup for the drama of her bringing down her sister at a certain point. I can enjoy the Menno-Lucas romance more without constantly fretting that Lucas is going to make it possible for Aysen to escape.

[GTSTfanMark]

I've added new spoilers, including these for June 6:

Noud has a lot to explain when Lucas asks him about what his relationship with Wiet is like right now. Menno accuses Aysen of corruption.

[GTSTfanMark]

Not sure what to think of the new spoilers. I refuse to believe this is the end for Lucas and Menno (and I don't think it is). It looks like they get caught and Aysen gets off the hook. Maybe that's why Menno ends things with Lucas. For now. But there's still Nuran who knows everything about Danny's death.

I do like that Sjoerd goes to Lucas. Maybe Lucas will help Sjoerd go through all of this.

[LadyArmand]

I don't know Mark, the spoilers as usual are vauge. But it sounds to me like Lucas may want/need more right now than Menno is able or willing to give. Prehaps this is because of the investigation. Maybe Lucas is a distraction and he feels he can't divide his attention in that way right now espeically because Lucas is part of the investigation. The victory thing could be about what Aysen is trying to do to Bing as revenge for bringing the investigation down on her head, which is why he wants to get back at her. I don't think its the inevestigation because later that week Bing rubs in Aysen's face that she's running for her life. Now either Menno has found out about Danny or he's about to.

ETA

One of the great thing to come out of Edwin's death is the strength of the friendship between Lucas and Sjoerd. The dynamic between them is similar to that of Lucas and Noud, but with the added connection of the love they have for and grief of losing Edwin. I think he goes to Lucas because he knows that Lucas won't judge him and that if he can Lucas will help him.

[GTSTfanMark]

You're right. The spoilers are vague. Like always. But it's fun to speculate.

I agree with you about Lucas/Sjoerd. I'm sure Lucas wouldn't judge him. And not just because he went through something similar after Edwin died (although it didn't get so far out of control like it did with Sjoerd right now). I've always loved their friendship. Maybe even more after Edwin died.

[ari]

I hope the Menno causing grief for Lucas
spoiler won't be him hurting Lucas physically.
It seems like it won't, but I'm cautious because
of what Lucas has been through in the past.
He hasn't been physically abused for most of
the season. I hope he can make it through
without it ever happening again.

[lureme19]

I don't think it will be physical. Menno is right - they do have different personalities. He probably thinks it is a bad thing and just needs a little nudge in the right direction to see that opposities can attract . Also, this clash was foretold by Dave Mantel in his first interview when he mentioned their difference in personalities. I think a revelation of feelings for Menno might play into the season finale - perhaps something happens to Lucas?

[GTSTfanMark]

I just watched tomorrow's episode. Beautiful scenes. Lucas tells Menno about Edwin.

[GTSTfanMark]

I've updated the spoilers, including this one for June 14:

There's a warm surprise on Lucas' doorstep.


No idea how to interpret 'warm' in this sentence so I went for a literal translation.

[daleeryohm]

What a weirdly worded spoiler.

My mind went all over the place, from a puppy to Aysen leaving a bag of poo or a bomb, to someone from his past

But it's most likely Menno of course, and I guess the 'warm' meaning is that he wants to make up. But is the case over? Would he go to Lucas in the out and open like that yet?

[GTSTfanMark]

A pile of poo crossed my mind as well. I'd love for it to be Stefano. But I agree with you, it's probably Menno.

[lureme19]

I hope its Menno - I get the feeling this is the calm before the storm. However, it is a Friday episode so I'm wondering if it is something more sinister and there will be a cliffhanger. I suppose we will have to deduce from the following week's spoilers.

[GTSTfanMark]

Something else... A lot of people (including me) think they know what the cliffhanger might be about this year. Maxime is the wedding planner for Rik and Nuran and last week she had an idea for their bachelor/bachelorette party. Her idea is to go parachute jumping with a big group. A plane crash is probably not possible with GTST's budget, but what if one of the parachutes doesn't work?

[Hawthorne]

Jun 2, 2013 6:44:58 GMT -5 GTSTfanMark said:

Something else... A lot of people (including me) think they know what the cliffhanger might be about this year. Maxime is the wedding planner for Rik and Nuran and last week she had an idea for their bachelor/bachelorette party. Her idea is to go parachute jumping with a big group. A plane crash is probably not possible with GTST's budget, but what if one of the parachutes doesn't work?

Please let it be Lorena's chute that doesn't open. In fact, I'm going to email the GTST writers and ask them to write me into the script. A Lorena-despising American comes to Meerdijk and sabotages her parachute.

But I doubt I'll be so lucky. One possibility is that Aysen sabotages Rik's parachute because he's becoming too convinced that she killed Danny. Rik will survive, of course (probably by Noud grabbing hold of him and them both using his parachute), and Nuran will intuitively know that Aysen was behind it. That will be what prompts her to bring Aysen down.

[ari]

The last two cliffhangers involved someone trying to
kill Nina. I wonder if they'll go for a tri-fecta. Wiet
could try to kill her again. If it is something like that
I hope Lunno are safe because Menno has to return to solve
the case, and Lucas has to get in the way of the investigation,
along with other things they do together.

[spherical07]

I'm not happy to read that Menno is thinking of moving away, but I'm guessing that Lucas will talk him into staying and they work things out. I really think they are being set up to be somewhat long-term. Its about time Lucas have someone like Menno in his life who is not afraid to face the tough stuff head on. Menno is very good for Lucas and vice versa.

[GTSTfanMark]

It might not be that he wants to move away from Meerdijk but that he wants to move TO Meerdijk. The word 'away' is not in the Dutch spoiler. After all, the only reason for Menno to be in Meerdijk was the investigation. But we do know he's still in town on July 5. I wouldn't be surprised if something happens to Lucas. I know a lot of people don't like that, but I don't have a problem with it. Like his coma, it wouldn't be because he's gay. It would be because he's living in a crazy soap town.

[LadyArmand]

Mark, I agree with you. From yesterday's episode it looks like Menno is deterimened to protect Lucas from Aysen It wouldn't make sense that he would heave him if he felt there was still danger. Maybe he wants Lucas to leave town with him until all of this is resolved with Aysen. Maybe as you suggested he sees the problem with Aysen isn't going away anytime soon he so he decides he wants to move to make sure Lucas will be alright. Or prehaps while protecting Lucas he realizes that his feelings for him go deeper than he thought. This could be especially true if something were to happen to Lucas, like he got hurt or he goes missing and Menno has no idea where he is.

[Hawthorne]

It could be that Lucas is the one whose chute gets sabotaged. And it could indeed be that Lucas' ongoing need of protection from Aysen is the pretext for Menno moving to Meerdijk. He did personally guarantee Lucas' safety. I wonder if Menno is going to wire Lucas to record Aysen's threats.

[LadyArmand]

Putting a wire on Lucas would be dangerous because the core of the treats is exposing Lucas' relationship with Menno. They can't expose her without exosing Menno and having him be accused of a conflict of interest at the very least, which would then damage the case agaisnt Aysen.

[amthyste]

Jun 5, 2013 11:01:51 GMT -5 GTSTfanMark said:

. I wouldn't be surprised if something happens to Lucas. I know a lot of people don't like that, but I don't have a problem with it. Like his coma, it wouldn't be because he's gay. It would be because he's living in a crazy soap town.

I agree with you. I don't mind the drama and angst that might occur, so long as there's a happy ending at the end.

[amthyste]

Jun 5, 2013 11:13:52 GMT -5 LadyArmand said:

Maybe he wants Lucas to leave town with him until all of this is resolved with Aysen. Maybe as you suggested he sees the problem with Aysen isn't going away anytime soon he so he decides he wants to move to make sure Lucas will be alright. Or prehaps while protecting Lucas he realizes that his feelings for him go deeper than he thought. This could be especially true if something were to happen to Lucas, like he got hurt or he goes missing and Menno has no idea where he is.

I think this might actually happen. It's the 2nd time they show Lucas being terrified of what Aysen will do and Menno promising to protect him. Also, it looks like out of all the witnesses her main target is Lucas.

[ari]

Lucas is now in three s/ls so it's definitely possible
that he could get hurt. Thank goodness he doesn't have
to be out for three months (right?).

[GTSTfanMark]

It looks like the spoilers are mixed up. Tomorrow Menno ends the relationship because they're too different. That sounds a lot like the June 10 episode.

Anyway, also on tomorrow's episode:



Really nice Lucas/Noud scenes. It says a lot that Noud confided in Lucas about kissing Wiet.