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Post by lolaruns on Jul 13, 2008 20:32:43 GMT -5
I have met people who liked all kinds of couples (gay, straight, and lesbian) in a fannish way. I have met people who liked only non-straight relationships (so either gay or lesbian). I have met people (female people) who liked exclusively boy/boy (personally I always found that hard to swallow, but to each their own). I have met people who are like you, like you with gay&straight, but not lesbian and people who liked straight and dabbled a bit in lesbian and vice versa. Particularly the last type seemed to me to be about the person in question as loving women and loving female characters. They like them so much that enjoy seeing them with anybody whether in a straight or lesbian relationship. Me? I tend to think that I can like any type of story thought lesbians are often a harder sell to me. Since having at least one guy in the pairing brings the hotness factor for me as a straight woman. But if the story is good, why not? I have liked it in the combo of again really liking the female character and therefore liking anything she is in. And if the story is really good (for example, I quite liked Xena and Gabrielle, probably because it is such a "classic" scenario. The blonde and the dark haired. The tall one and the short one. The physical one and the emotional/moral one.). I keep trying to invest the time to watch Carla/Hanna online because on description alone it sounds like the kind of story that would appeal to me. It's also often a question of degree. I like straight couples. I like straight love stories. But gay couples are more rare and therefore there is often a deeper emotional involvement in it. Take soap operas. There is one gay couple and about 5 or more straight couples (Ansgar/Nathalie, Rebecca/Gregor, Judith/Fabian, Sebastian/Lydia, Katja/Matthias, Sarah/Leonard and those are just the active ones. Not the very recent or potentially upcoming ones). If I like one of them and it doesn't work out, it's usually no biggie. I can just find a different show with a similar couple and see if they work out better. Even if a couple I really like doesn't work out, I sort of don't see it personally. Sh*t happens. Also, when there is a straight couple on tv I usually feel less desire to "add" to the story whether it is through posting or seeking out fanfiction. Because most of the time you can just settle back and see them do all the important things on screen. Something that often isn't the case with gay couples or even just with two guys who have lots of chemistry. Because often it seems like the cards are stacked against them. If I want a good straight romance I can just plop in a soap opera, a chick flick or a tearjerker Bollywood movie. I can usually find something for next to every type of and flavor of straight relationship (SciFi! Action movie! Active woman! Smart woman! Funny interaction! Angst! Heartbreak! Princess! Tomboy!). But for gay relationships not as much variety exists. I often wonder if for women the problem is that that they like sensitive men, but when they see a mostly sensitive man in a straight love story it's hard not to see it as a negative things (with all the prejudices against "beta" and "gamma" men). Maybe it's that watching a straight love story sort of locks you in, because even if you feel more for the male character, you still have some kinship with the female character. Or maybe it's the appeal in seeing men in situations that many straight men would never dream of finding themselves in. Or characters (inside or outside the relationship) having to question the status quo. Everybody is going to be different. But again, if you check out slash or yaoi, they exist in all levels of explicitness, down to very explicit. You might want to for example look at a typical reclist of some female fans. It might give you an insight what kind of stories (some) female fans like and why. [I can't speak to the quality of this, this is just a simple google search for examples. I don't read most of these fandoms. One, Two, Three, Four, Five] Of course it can be argued that not always slash and yaoi are necessarily about "gay sex" but rather the female take on gay sex and relationships. (for example when a woman were to write a gay love story she might find certain gay culture aspects less interesting than a gay man would because they don't mean much to her emotionally; or they might care about some aspects, but not others; and with aspects I mean cultural aspects from the status of AIDS or how to deal with ones self-identity or generally the more mundane or less romantic aspects that real gay life might entail) That's why I think that women who love gay storylines and gay men who want representation have a lot of things in common, but they aren't the same necessarily in what their interests are and what they get out of it. Fortunately, in a lot of cases that won't matter, I'm just saying it's possible that at one point they might hit a wall where the male and the female fans might see very differently.
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Post by aussie54 on Jul 13, 2008 21:28:07 GMT -5
*hides from lolaruns Well, that is how I am at the moment. Not much interested in straight stories or lesbian stories in a fannish way at all. Hard to say why, but that's the way it is. We all follow the beat of different drums, I guess. Sheepie - lots of things to think about with your post. I would fall out of your experience, because I'm probably a lot older than you. I've never been to clubs, and only know one gay guy in RL, and he's one of my daughter's friends. That brings daughters into the equation! I have a grown up son, and a grown up daughter. My daughter is one of the very few RL people who knows about my interest in m/m relationships. She appears to be very accepting of gay people, but doesn't share my interest in watching or reading about them in a fannish situation. (Although she has mentioned TWincest recently ... ) My son's been living in New Zealand for seven years, so we don't talk about such things. He may know about my interests, but it's rarely mentioned. It's sad that he lives so far away, and we don't get the chance to talk about such things. I was surprised to read that you wondered why you were here if you weren't here to procreate ... I know many women who haven't had children, and it never occurred to me that they would think that. Is it a guy thing? But perhaps your circumstances are such that it does make you wonder. Another thing - you were surprised that Nanna was a female ... over at LJ, in the HP fandom, I always assume everyone is female. It's a little strange when one of my friends turns out to be a bloke ... nice, but quite unusual. And what's this about YT Boards? There are Boards at YT?
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Post by lolaruns on Jul 13, 2008 21:36:40 GMT -5
Yes, but having no fannish interest in it, it different from having no interest in it in all or disliking it in a general way I always twitch a bit when I see a female slash fan going "Ewww, girl parts" or "female characters are boring/never any interesting characters". Because it always seems a bit self-hating to me to categorically think that female characters could never be interesting or that all references to female sex are wrong and disgusting. I have no problem if people seek their straight entertainment in other forms, but when somebody makes statements like this, I can't help being weirded out a bit.
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Post by Bonobochick on Jul 13, 2008 21:49:26 GMT -5
Yes, but having no fannish interest in it, it different from having no interest in it in all or disliking it in a general way I always twitch a bit when I see a female slash fan going "Ewww, girl parts" or "female characters are boring/never any interesting characters". Because it always seems a bit self-hating to me to categorically think that female characters could never be interesting or that all references to female sex are wrong and disgusting. I have no problem if people seek their straight entertainment in other forms, but when somebody makes statements like this, I can't help being weirded out a bit. Yes. I have seen some women get grossed out at "breeders" or bitch excessively about women in a gay storyline, even tangent appearances. Me, I don't like to see gay couplings I like break up due to a woman randomly *coughsatAWZandATWTcoughs* but it bothers me as well to see some women post deprecating remarks about every female they come across on a show where the main attraction is a gay storyline. It's totally ok to love a storyline with gay men but when you start knocking your own sex for no legitimate reason than the females 'have the nerve to appear in the storyline at all' or be flirtatiously-friendly with one of the gay characters (cause that never happens in real life : , it is time to take a step back. And then there's mpreg.
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Post by aussie54 on Jul 13, 2008 22:36:30 GMT -5
Mpreg!!!
...
...
...
Really runs away and hides this time ... ;D
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andru
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Post by andru on Jul 14, 2008 9:20:15 GMT -5
To be honest: I do think it makes a difference. I have nothing against female/female pairings, because I think people sound be free to love who ever they want to love, no matter their gender. But like you I'm not enamoured with lesbian love stories. I have seen some, but I'm not drawn to them at all. Not like heterosexual and gay love stories. Maybe it's indeed all about getting emotionally and personally involved in the stories and I just can't get that with female/female pairings because I can't imagine falling in love with a woman myself. I totally agree. The same applies to me. On top of my personal "relationship skala" definitely are gay relationship. After that follow hetero relationships and at the end there are the lesbian relationships. But I don't have a problem with watching them either. They just can't give me any emotion. There are many hetero love stories which I love to see and I find absolutely cute but they are not to compare with a wonderful gay love story between two men. The question why it is this way is hard to answer for me. Of course you can try to explain it with many different aspects but I don't think that this could expain the sticking point to it. Presumably it's a psychological thing for which no explainable cause exists. Or maybe it's just an individual thing which you can't universalize.
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Post by synapticmisfire on Jul 14, 2008 14:17:10 GMT -5
Same here. I think it's for the reasons lolaruns outlined above - I don't have to look hard to see straight stories that are well-told and objectively enjoyable to watch. There are entertaining and positive heterosexual love stories everywhere, and by positive, I don't necessarily mean "saccharine and overly PC", just stories that aren't weighed down by too much melodrama and heartache. There are so few male/male romances that it makes the ones that do exist that bit more special, and also means that the minority-within-a-minority that don't end in AIDS, death, violence or general misery really appeal to me. It's completely a case of blurring fiction and reality and needing to see someone in the story as a personal proxy, but I'm kinda OK with that And while I'm not necessarily against lesbian stories (I'd watch a good f/f romance over a straight one for similar reasons of rarity), they just don't do as much for me as there's no personal appeal to the "relationship" part of it - I am, above all, a shallow creature, and while seeing Olli and Christian make out every few episodes isn't the only thing that draws me to this story, it is a significant part. It's incredibly rare to see that much affection on an ongoing basis. (Plus? They're very hot) Heh - I can't count how many times I've been mistaked for female because I write slash. The reactions have never been negative though, just confused (though lord knows why - I'm always shocked there aren't more male writers) I will (shame-facedly) admit that I have read one mpreg fiction that I liked, once, because it involved a show where magic was commonplace and was treated as "two men have a baby" not "two women in men's bodies have a baby", and was played for almost entirely for laughs. I'll even admit that the genre as a whole has some interesting potential within the realm of sci-fi/fantasy shows as a commentary on gender-reversal and whatnot. But nothing, and I mean nothing irritates the shit out of me like men in normal stories suddenly becoming pregnant with no explanation and immediately becoming completely feminine and OOC just because. Oh, the burning rage...
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Post by aussie54 on Jul 14, 2008 16:10:51 GMT -5
Synapticmisfire ... I'm also surprised there aren't more male slash writers. Another surprising thing I've noticed in published m/m fiction is that many female writers use names that could be seen as being male. Apparently the reason is that gay males would be more inclined to buy their books if they thought the writers were male. Regarding Mpreg ... in the magical world of Harry Potter, anything is possible! I have a soft spot for a well written Mpreg story, especially when humour's involved. There's something appealing in seeing how a macho wizard copes with all the inconveniences of being pregnant. ;D
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Post by lolaruns on Jul 15, 2008 9:21:20 GMT -5
I have read one MPREG that I liked and that was in the X-Files fandom and it was treated as horror rather than sap and it didn't gloss over the horror aspect. (the guy who was in this experiment always kept some emotional distance to the kid which made a lot of sense to me considering how the whole thing happened).
May I ask, what fandoms do you write?
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I ♥ Blaine
Full Member
....new kid. You'll fit right in!
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Post by I ♥ Blaine on Jul 15, 2008 12:53:47 GMT -5
As others have also said, there needs to be some emotional attachment along the way. Love rather than just sex. Which is why I enjoy watching Christian and Olli so much, because their love shines through all their scenes. Jo and Thore have amazing on-screen chemistry! It's like they were born for these roles. ditto! Totally agree, we don't need to see Olli and Christian in bed everyday to know there is love in their relationship. I think the first gay couple I saw was Brian and Justin from QAF, I mostly watched the whole series on YT, till my friend gave me his Season 2 dvd set. I liked it, I'm probably the minority in that but I liked them. They had their issues, but still. Well first let me say that he was suprised that I knew what QAF was ;D and Sheepie, no offense taken. You made good points. I don't have any children but I do hope if I do in the future that both my daughters and sons are open-minded. It would be really stupid of me not be open-mided about people when I have friends and family who are gay and lesbians. I love your banner.. It's so - dare I say it - gay. Where is your avatar from?
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eldanesh
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insane in the membrane.
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Post by eldanesh on Jul 16, 2008 13:01:16 GMT -5
And then there's mpreg. hmmm, someone here is going to have to explain to me what mpreg is. as far as i can tell from these posts, it has to do with magic....?
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Post by lolaruns on Jul 16, 2008 13:07:41 GMT -5
Believe me, you don't want to know.
It stands for male pregnancy aka assbabies, you know like Arnold Schwarzenegger in Junior.
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eldanesh
Junior Member
insane in the membrane.
Posts: 251
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Post by eldanesh on Jul 16, 2008 13:16:13 GMT -5
oh.
hmm, i guess ignorance sometimes can be bliss, huh?
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Post by synapticmisfire on Jul 16, 2008 17:22:35 GMT -5
oh. hmm, i guess ignorance sometimes can be bliss, huh? Pretty much. That's why I'm always so happy May I ask, what fandoms do you write? Mainly Jossverse (i.e. Buffy, Angel & Firefly), but I've written plenty of random bits and pieces over the past few years (Dawson's Creek, Empire Records and Boy Meets World all spring to mind). Nothing special or widely acclaimed or anything ;D but it's very therapeutic to get all the random ideas that buzz around my head written down somewhere. Do you write yourself?
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Post by lolaruns on Jul 17, 2008 3:32:39 GMT -5
Nope.
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lala
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Post by lala on Aug 4, 2008 19:24:08 GMT -5
I'd like to throw my $.02 in here. My perspective is slightly different as a bi, not straight, female, but I know one of the reasons that I enjoy following m/m storylines is because as someone on the queer spectrum, I can understand many of the same feelings and situations that the characters go through in relation to their gayness, but also, I enjoy it because men are hot. LOL.
I of course also enjoy f/f and m/f pairings, but I have to say that m/f tend to be the least interesting for me to follow, in the fictional universe at least. I definitely do have straight pairings I root for and enjoy, but generally, I find I relate more to f/f or m/m pairings, or at least f/m where there is some difficulty and boundaries for there relationship. Because, I think being a bi person, sometimes navigating relationships can be difficult because of stigmas, so it's not really fun to watch the stereotypical blonde cheerleader and blond football player get together.
Anyway...
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Post by floatilla on Aug 11, 2008 22:19:13 GMT -5
I have to agree with lala too on this one. m/f pairings are not very interesting in my opinion..I am drawn to glbt stories because I guess in my opinion there is the novelty factor. for the first time there are exclusive f/f or m/m storylines....(and then there is Nuke...but thats a different story altogether... ;D.. but seriously, stories like Ollian, Kieron and JP, and even serial shows like the L-Word add to visibility, which is a good thing IMHO. And as lala says,being someone who has straddled the fence between both genders, can be hard to classify, and for me thats the appeal of the Olli/Christian pairing....plus it does not hurt that both men are yummy...
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Post by Difficult Diva on Aug 12, 2008 10:47:56 GMT -5
I'm "into" GLBT fictionalized stories (be it books, theatre, tv shows, big-budget films and/or small indie films), because I'm a sucker for a good, compelling and entertaining LOVE STORY. For me, it's always about the pairing of the couple. If, the creator of the storyline, can find something compelling about the pairing and be able to convey that in the story, then I'm 100% behind it (like with my enjoyment of the Ollian relationship, what initially happened between Noah and Luke on ATWT in 2007, the Justin/Ethan relationship on QAF, the amazing and dysfunctional relationship between JPC on HO and the maturing relationship between JPK on HO).
I know that I initially started getting into GLBT stories, when I was 12 years-old. I was an AVID reader of any and all books in my youth. I started with the Beverly Cleary series, the Judy Blume books, the Sweet Valley High novels and then I finally hit the "Harlequin Romance" stage. I was in my local pharmacy/general store at the time and I came across this novel called, "A Measure of Madness" by Gordon Merrick. The cover of the novel, had a man's torso on it, with a tropical beach background. On the back of the novel, the short description of the story, featured a man dealing with some sort of love triangle between a woman in his life and another man. I purchased the novel and went home to read it. By the time, I got to page 30 or 40, I came to realize that the woman wasn't a factor in the love triangle at all and that you could do a LOT in a deserted farm house. That novel changed my life, forever. Don't even get me started on when I discovered Anne Rice.
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nerd
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Post by nerd on Aug 21, 2008 21:36:39 GMT -5
I'm a compulsive soap watcher, not sure why, it doesn't fit in much with my other likes in movies ,music. People think of soaps as cheesy and well they kind of are but I watch a lot of them anyway but have started recently to dislike the way a lot of women are portrayed as sapppy or stupid. And I like straight couples where the woman is very strong or moderately strong or at the very least not so needy that it makes you want to kill her.
I think gay relationships on these soaps are portrayed completely differently, theres love, theres sensitivity, and I think for the most part the men are usually portrayed as on an even level, ones not usually totally pathetic and waiting to be saved. Although I thought John Paul got a little Whiny on Hollyoaks when he kept saying he was a dirty little secret all the time, made me like him less even though he had a point.
I guess it also doesn't hurt that most of the guys in these soaps are really very attractive.
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emma
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Post by emma on Aug 22, 2008 5:45:26 GMT -5
I think that we girls, love it because m/m pairing shows us a love that we don't see at every corner. And because a love between to mens is really different thant between one men and a women or between two womens. From what I can tell, and what I've seen on TV or movies or read, I believe that we see much passion between the couple, it's more "violent", and more sexy because two guys, really cute like in VL or ATWT, are really a pleasure for the eye. I'm not saying that there's no passion with the other couple but it's shows in a different way which not really entertain me now. It's just a personal vue ^^ And there is one more thing : when you protray a love relationship you have to have word, phrase or gests who shows to the audience that there is something between the couple otherwise we can't believe in it (like for example the Nuke story). And because it's involving two mens we are more...I don't know how I can put that...we are more charmed (I don't know if it's correct) when we see those things. I have noticed, and not only for VL but other shows which not imply gay storyline like Stargate Atlantis, so I've noticed that when you see looks between the characters, touchs, hugs, some words we react immediatly and kind of melt with it (well in my case it's true, I don't know for the others ^^).
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louisa
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Thanks to rayslady for the Merlin slashiness!
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Post by louisa on Sept 6, 2008 17:36:51 GMT -5
Thought I'd just add my thoughts here. A friend of mine actually asked me this recently when I'd been rabbiting on about VL and Shelter and Hollyoaks for ages, so I repost what I sent to him at the time.
Although, just to add, my love of Hollyoaks stems from being a huge fan of the soap since its beginning, not just for the JP stories.
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Post by sorriso on Sept 7, 2008 16:21:09 GMT -5
This is just the right topic for me *lol* I'm "into" GLBT fictionalized stories (be it books, theatre, tv shows, big-budget films and/or small indie films), because I'm a sucker for a good, compelling and entertaining LOVE STORY. For me, it's always about the pairing of the couple. Word. I couldn't have said it better. If, the creator of the storyline, can find something compelling about the pairing and be able to convey that in the story, then I'm 100% behind it I see it like that too. (I don't like Justin Ethan, but that's another story) Although I discover at myself, that f/m storylines are not interesting for me anymore. I can't find anything compelling about it, but I think that is something individual. I know of girls who love M/M storylines but watch the show for the f/m stories, and that's ok. I myself see it as a way to flee. Flee my own reality to something I can't have or don't really know. I only know two or three gay men in real life and their not hot and not in relationships were I can watch them kiss. And even if they had a relationship, I wouldn't want to intrude or stare like some silly girl So, two hot actors, characters on film, in books, where you can let your own imagination loose is perfect for me. I know that I initially started getting into GLBT stories, when I was 12 years-old. It was the same with me at that age. I didn't read that much, but I watched tv nearly religiously. So, I loved the storylines and couldn't bring myself to watch hets making out again, although I'm hetero myself *lol* Hopefully this made sense.
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Post by alessis on Sept 30, 2008 9:25:57 GMT -5
Allow me to complicate matters even further... My attraction for homoeroticism is something I discovered around the age of 9 or 10, the same age I discovered my own sexuality. Of course I didn't have words or concepts for either of those things at the time, but looking back I can see that I came to know who I was. I'm a bisexual female. Not 50/50 bisexual, more like 75% attraction for men and 25% for women. This might sound weird, but believe me, I'm old enough to know my own sexual orientation and this is what it is. When I was younger I liked straight pairings just as much as m/m ones, but there are just so MANY straight pairings and that appetite is so easy to feed. Over the years I feel like I've become numbed to them. I've seen too many straight love stories and they just don't peek my interest so much anymore. There would have to be something special about it. One straight couple that I did get excited about in recent years was Buffy/Spike, and there were certainly special circumstances/adversities there as well as hotness and chemistry. Also it has something to do with how women are portrayed. Buffy is one of few female characters on screen that I can truly respect and like. Too often female characters inspire more disgust and contempt on my part, I'm afraid. To be perfectly clear: it's the CHARACTERS, in no way the actors or any actual women! Women are just – still – portrayed unfairly in a belittling way, that's how I feel anyway. I think that's also one of the reasons why f/f pairings don't attract me much. But not the whole reason. You would think, as a bisexual woman, f/f pairings would be attractive to me, but truth be told I don't find them more interesting generally than straight pairings. I really don't know why. Like many others of the women here I'm not quite sure why I'm so drawn to m/m pairings. To me it almost seems to be a matter of orientation. Most women I know don't feel the same way I do about this (they're completely gay-friendly as a rule but just don't see the attraction), but I know from the world of slash that there is a large segment of women (mostly but not all straight) who have this fascination. I've had a couple of female RL friends who shared it too. I've almost developed a "gaydar" about it now – I can quickly tell when another woman is likeminded. I call it the International Sisterhood of Perverts. In the days before the Internet I guess many of us became "f*g hags" (I don't like the expression but there is an underlying reality). I've been asked before whether I'm turned on by a smoking m/m love scene, and I can't really give a straight (haha) answer there either. Mainly the answer is no, but sometimes to a small degree it can also be yes. There is a sense of excitement and a minor part of it can be sexual, sure. But, like most of the other women here again, I'm not interested in watching gay porn. Straight porn does more for me in that respect. With m/m scenes, there has to be an emotional connection there for the scene to be interesting. I need to know the characters and care about them. I even need to like the emotional setting of the scene. Picky, I know. I probably didn't make anything clearer to anyone, but these are very interesting questions to discuss. I'm so glad to finally have found the right place for that!
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Aldi
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Post by Aldi on Oct 3, 2008 12:16:08 GMT -5
Alessis, like I said elsewhere, I found that a really interesting perspective, just as I find this thread fascinating in general. I'm always interested in other people's answers to this question, mainly because I don't really have a comprehensive answer for myself. I've been into Harry Potter slash and a bunch of other fandoms for years and whenever one of my friends (especially the male ones) bemusedly wants to know why the heck I'm into blokes snogging each other, I can talk and talk and talk but utterly fail at explaining. I think to some degree it's one of those things that you either get or you don't. Sexual orientation aside, I'm primarily into interesting pairings. Interesting in my book usually equals loads of conflict, and as others here have pointed out, gay pairings just tend to have a lot more of that. Obstacle parcours of emotion and angst, yes! I'm all there Mind you, I'm just as happy to obsess about a straight pairing if it has something compelling to offer, but - again, like someone else already said (I'm just parroting around here apparently) - a lot of the traditional boy-meets-girl stories are just not terribly interesting these days. There are exceptions - Joss Whedon, for example, is a master of developing real and heartbreaking relationships in general, and I can get pretty much into any pairing he writes. Buffy/Spike and Mal/Inara (from Firefly) are my prime counter-argument when anyone rolls their eyes at my boy-on-boy obsession. But that's a rare talent, and in general I just find m/m or f/f relationships more compelling, because they often make the characters question themselves, be brave, take a leap, do something unaccustomed. Or run away and hide, whatever. Or be totally okay with it! Either way, whether we have huge angsty coming out drama or just a sweet, understated love story or something violent and messy, I usually just find it the more refreshing tale to follow. I think it also has to do with stereotypes and gender roles, to a degree. Enlightened or not, we still associate certain behaviours and patterns with a m/f relationship, sexually and otherwise. What I find interesting about m/m and f/f relationships is when you don't have those conventions, there is no role that you're supposed to naturally fall into. (Yeah, okay, there's a thousand gay pairings where one is the "man" and the other the "woman". I really don't like those much.) I find it fascinating to watch two people just figure out what they are to each other without being able to rely on such pre-cast moulds. It's not that it's more balanced, at all, it just seems a little more freestyle (sirtaki or freestyle, yay!), less shackled in convention and therefore instantly more appealing. (I'm pretty sure none of that made any sense whatsoever ) And, uhm, also, it's pretty ;D
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Post by amber80 on Oct 3, 2008 12:23:06 GMT -5
But that's a rare talent, and in general I just find m/m or f/f relationships more compelling, because they often make the characters question themselves, be brave, take a leap, do something unaccustomed. Or run away and hide, whatever. Or be totally okay with it! Either way, whether we have huge angsty coming out drama or just a sweet, understated love story or something violent and messy, I usually just find it the more refreshing tale to follow. I think it also has to do with stereotypes and gender roles, to a degree. Enlightened or not, we still associate certain behaviours and patterns with a m/f relationship, sexually and otherwise. What I find interesting about m/m and f/f relationships is when you don't have those conventions, there is no role that you're supposed to naturally fall into. (Yeah, okay, there's a thousand gay pairings where one is the "man" and the other the "woman". I really don't like those much.) I find it fascinating to watch two people just figure out what they are to each other without being able to rely on such pre-cast moulds. It's not that it's more balanced, at all, it just seems a little more freestyle (sirtaki or freestyle, yay!), less shackled in convention and therefore instantly more appealing. (I'm pretty sure none of that made any sense whatsoever ) It definitely made sense to me! Especially the last thing you said; I never really thought about that, but that is a very interesting point. And, uhm, also, it's pretty ;D Uhm... Yes, it is. ;D
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