Salatut elämät - General Discussion

[cheerios]

I'm sure that Jesse was very much a plot character and only around to stir things up with his drunken one night stand with Kalle. And to let the cat out of the bag to Elias whose is close friend/old flame/still has major feelings of Lari, the unknowing boyfriend of Kalle.

[HQ75]

Mar 21, 2016 16:46:41 GMT -5 gidi said:

You are wrong they were not separated when Elias met Miska ,his sleeping with Miska some way of fleeing.

When Elias slept with Miska, Lari was at a gay conversion camp and had told Elias that he never wanted to see him again and they were no longer a couple (right after having sex with Elias on the conversion camp couch). If that isn't broken up I don't know what broken up is.
Elias was still in love with Lari and only slept with Miska because he was heartbroken. How was Elias supposed to know that Lari was going to suddenly change his mind about never wanting to see Elias again and sneak out of the conversion camp and creep into Elias' room while Elias was asleep to see him in bed with Miska?

When your boyfriend leaves you to attend a gay conversion camp, a camp that is supposed to talk you out of being gay and the he sends you away from that camp when you try to save him you are most definitely broken up.

These are the last time Elias saw Lari before he slept with Miska and then right after. Elias believed he and Lari had broken up. That seems very clear to me regardless of how Elias felt about Lari. The only reason Elias feels that he cheated is because HE was not done with his feelings for Lari. Lari made it very clear in this video that HE was done then he magically changed his mind the next day without bothering to let Elias know.

[gidi]

Mar 23, 2016 20:54:43 GMT -5 HQ75 said:

Mar 21, 2016 16:46:41 GMT -5 gidi said:

You are wrong they were not separated when Elias met Miska ,his sleeping with Miska some way of fleeing.

When Elias slept with Miska, Lari was at a gay conversion camp and had told Elias that he never wanted to see him again and they were no longer a couple (right after having sex with Elias on the conversion camp couch). If that isn't broken up I don't know what broken up is.
Elias was still in love with Lari and only slept with Miska because he was heartbroken. How was Elias supposed to know that Lari was going to suddenly change his mind about never wanting to see Elias again and sneak out of the conversion camp and creep into Elias' room while Elias was asleep to see him in bed with Miska?

When your boyfriend leaves you to attend a gay conversion camp, a camp that is supposed to talk you out of being gay and the he sends you away from that camp when you try to save him you are most definitely broken up.

These are the last time Elias saw Lari before he slept with Miska and then right after. Elias believed he and Lari had broken up. That seems very clear to me regardless of how Elias felt about Lari. The only reason Elias feels that he cheated is because HE was not done with his feelings for Lari. Lari made it very clear in this video that HE was done then he magically changed his mind the next day without bothering to let Elias know.

If you look on their body language, it was after they discusson about Lari believe his father will accept him after falure of this camp ,Elias coming was not helping Lari so this happen.. don't think they really broke up if Elias wait little more he would get back his love.. this is the way I see it.

[LadyArmand]

I don't see why Elias should've had to wait (yet again) for Lari to make up his damn mind. Maybe it's just me, but all I've seen Elias do when it comes to Lari is wait and be patient with him and for his patience get repeatedly kicked square in the teeth. When Lari told him to leave the Camp and that it was over, Elias took him at his word, excuse him for not being a mind reader or being able to predict the future. Lari had hurt him (yet again) and he was seeking comfort. From everything that Lari had told him and the way he acted towards him, Elias thought their relationship was over. So he didn't cheat. The reason Elias considers it cheating is because he was still very much in love with Lari when he slept with Miska, not to mention he's allowed Lari to play the injured party in all of this, which is bullshit.

I really wish the writers of this show would allow Elias to get over Lari and move on completely. I wish they'd stop continually dragging Elias into the shit fest which is the relationship between Lari and Kalle. Elias deserves so much better than Lari and his nonsense.

[gidi]

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[Zathras]

This show moves so slowly. I'd like for things to pick up again. Get the secret out already.

[LadyArmand]

So Lari sees Jesse flirting with Elias. Of course he's confused by it because people keep lying to him. And I just bet he's going to go and talk to Elias about it. I think because Shanni keeps insisting that Jesse is 100% straight that he's going to think that Jesse is playing some kind of sick twisted game and is going to hurt Elias in some way (and we all know that Lari likes to be the only one who hurts Elias) so he's going to try to get to the bottom of all this.

Maybe it's just me, but watching Lari and Kalle together is like watching paint dry slowly in the sweltering heat of summer. I've had root canals that were more interesting, and less painful. Maybe it's because to me Lari and Kalle have absolutely no chemistry together. It was like the writers got in the writing room and said "Lari's gay and Kalle's gay so let's stick them together". It doesn't seem to matter that its stupid or that the two have as much in common as oil and water. And in the middle of all this the writers refuse to allow Elias to move on with his life apart from Lari. He shouldn't care at this point if Kalle cheated on Lari. If he wants to date Jesse he should regardless of Kalle and his lies. It has nothing to do with him, but of course the show is going to involve him because it seems that they have a plan for Elias and Lari. I hate it when characters I like get saddled with assholes. I hate it because usually the character has to lose too many brains cells in order to make the relationship work. Like Elias insisting the cheated on lunk head or allowing Lari to play the wounded party because it.

First love is a wonderful thing, it's something to be cherished, learned from and finally moved on from. I really wish that when it comes to gay characters that soaps would stop insisting that first love means only lasting love. Because not only is it stupid, and unrealistic (for anyone) but it's insulting.

[kevvoi]

Mar 31, 2016 10:03:48 GMT -5 LadyArmand said:

(and we all know that Lari likes to be the only one who hurts Elias)

Please refrain from blanket statements like this - everyone has their own opinion on the nature of these characters and the nature of the relationship between them.

[kevvoi]

New clip courtesy of MissFinlandia:

[LadyArmand]

Mar 31, 2016 19:56:44 GMT -5 kevvoi said:

Mar 31, 2016 10:03:48 GMT -5 LadyArmand said:

(and we all know that Lari likes to be the only one who hurts Elias)

Please refrain from blanket statements like this - everyone has their own opinion on the nature of these characters and the nature of the relationship between them.

Please refrain from telling me what I should refrain from. If you don't understand what sarcasm is that's not my problem. Nor do I necessarily care.


ETA: And that's all I have to say about that.

[Zathras]

Seriously, that's the attitude you're going with, LadyArmand? Chill out. You know better than to be so rude to other members. You've also been around long enough to know that using unmarked sarcasm in text is just asking for trouble. It's hard enough to convey attitude and intention with simple text as it is.

[Zathras]

Anyway...

At least Elias confronting Kalle is some forward movement for the story.

[HQ75]

If I was Elias I would have gone straight to Kalle as soon as I found out. Kalle and Elias have their own relationship separate from Lari that proceeds Lari and Kalle dating. Elias and Kalle used to live together. They know each other well. It is a horrible position for anyone who cares about Lari to know what Kalle did and say nothing. If Kalle was stealing from Lari or had stolen from Lari I don't think folks would be so quick to say Lari doesn't deserve to know. The truth is going to come out. The gay community in the show is too small for it not to. They all live in the same building. Well Kalle and Elias do but Lari is close enough. I don't know how Kalle thinks he can keep this secret when so many people know but it's not fair on his friends and family to have to help him cover up his one night stand. Lari might actually be able to forgive Kalle if he tells him himself. If it comes from anyone else it will feel worse. Kalle got drunk and made some very bad choices. If anyone can relate to that it's Lari.

[LadyArmand]

About my attitude...yeah, seriously. And I'm always chill.

Anyway...

Elias really doesn't owe Kalle anything. Kalle is the one who cheated, he is the one who keeps lying about it and he is the one who keeps dragging people into the lie. It's not like Elias went looking for this information, he was simply out on a date and this information landed in his lap. He could have told Lari, but he decided not to because he knew it would hurt Lari and he felt it wasn't his place. But things are changing because Lari has seen him with Jesse at this point and it puts him in a very awkward position. It's one thing not to tell Lari what he knows, it is another all together to lie to Lari's face.

[Zathras]

I'm a bit torn because they are all (kind of) friends. If I set aside for a moment the romantic issues, Elias now has information about one of his friends. There's kind of a general principle here: is it ever a good idea to interfere in your friend's romantic relationship when information comes to you? Some would say that, yes, a good friend would tell what they know. Others would say that it's better to not get involved. Both paths can have good and bad consequences.

In this case, Elias not only has been romantically linked with Lari, but he still harbors feelings for him. He definitely has a conflict of interest and I'm not sure he can be impartial. That aspect of this situation opens up other good and bad consequences.

Basically, it seems to me Elias has no good options. So I can't really judge him too harshly for whatever he chooses to do (with regard to talking with either Kalle or Lari about Kalle cheating).

[cheerios]

I'm not a big fan of cheating, but I do believe it's best when the cheater is the one who tells the person they cheated on and they don't hear it from elsewhere. It's one thing to find out your partner cheated, it's quite another to find out that everyone and their brother knew before you did. Kalle had a drunken night stand and hasn't engaged in a long time affair. I think Elias should encourage Kalle to tell Lari the truth, the whole truth, especially about everyone knowing. Now if Kalle was having a long time affair that would be different and I still think Elias should encourage Kalle to tell Lari the truth. But make it clear that if he didn't step up that Elias would.

[LadyArmand]

I think the thing that would be the most unforgivable is the fact that Kalle has had absolutely no trouble telling everyone else what he's done. He's done everything but put out a news letter about it. If I were Lari I would also blanch at the hypocrisy of the whole thing. In that Kalle wants him to be honest with him, and yet the one chance he has to be honest about a drunken mistake he lies about, and encourages everyone he's told to lie to Lari as well.

All of this puts Elias in a bad position. It isn't his place to tell Lari, but as I've said it's one thing not to tell what he knows because it will hurt someone he cares deeply for, and it's something else to actively lie to Lari. Elias also shouldn't have to encourage Kalle to tell the truth. Kalle should know by now that nothing stays secret, especially something like this. Plus he keeps telling people every chance he gets, and yet the only person who should know because he has a right to know, he hasn't told.

Everyone makes mistakes, Lari knows this better than anyone. What Kalle should know better than anyone is that the lying about the mistake makes everything worse.

[justinate]

I've never been a fan of Elias/Lari - I could never understand why the original recipe Elias, who stood up for himself and didn't take any shit for being gay, would willingly enter into a relationship with the bully who'd made his school life hell for months on end and now wished to cheat on Elias's best friend with him. But I grew to accept it because it was so soapy and the boys had solid chemistry and (for teenagers on a soap opera) steamy love scenes.

Of course, over the years, Elias's strength of character has been diluted so much that I no longer bat an eyelid to see him mooning over over hs former bully, who's now in a relationship with Elias's ex-pseudo-stepfather. (I will always regret that they did not play out that beat during the initial storyline of Lari getting together with Kalle. Instead of Elias being jealous I would've preferred to see him confused and hurt.)

I only hope the eventual reunion of Lari and Elias - and you know it's coming, although I give the writers credit for holding off on it for years - will result in some good sex scenes. Honestly, that's the only positive I see. Maybe this time we will FINALLY get Lari naked. Jeez, why does the guy with the hottest body have to be the only one on the cast to stop short of nudity?

The trajectory of Kalle's alcoholism storyline (I assume this is actually leading to that) has been pretty good, although I do roll my eyes at Lari's innocent interactions with Elias being the trigger for it. I mean, this is a guy whose parents have both struggled over his sexuality, whose colleagues are a bunch of bigots, whose boyfriend raped him, whose foray into heterosexuality ended badly, who was dumped at the altar by his spineless fiance who impregnated his sister ... through all that Kalle stayed sober but now he is hitting the bottle hard? I wonder if Kalle will be packed off to an offscreen rehab when all this goes down, or will they reveal he was the drunk hit-and-run driver after all - we never did find out who that was who nearly ran over Oliver and ended up hitting Lari's cousin instead - and send him to prison instead?

As for Jesse, I'm glad they showed us what actually happened that night. He does come off as sleazy but Kalle did not appear blackout drunk during their tryst. It would have been really excessive to have the same character raped twice.

[HQ75]

Kalle was drunk Jesse was ALSO drunk. They were both drunk. There has never been any indication that Kalle blacked out or didn't remember what happened. 2 drunk people get together and have sex all the time and it doesn't have to mean anything nefarious has happened.
Kalle has long had a problem with drinking too much under duress so it's really just part of his character, not a new thing resulting from his current situation

Jesse to me seems like a really nice guy who is young and single and dating. I saw nothing sleazy about him at all but obviously that is subjective and we each have our own boundaries vis a vis sexual activity outside of a relationship.

I just don't like the automatic assumption that Jesse bad guy. He had no way of knowing Elias would know who is story was about and it was a funny anecdote and I would have thought it was funny if I don't know folks personally involved.

Many Western cultures are not as reserved about sexual activity and nudity and I think it's good to be mindful of that when we are watching shows set in countries that aren't our own because it allows us to view people behaviors in a different context than how we in our own lives might perceive them.

Lari and Elias were 15 and 16 when we first met them. A lot of horrible things happened to both of them over the years and it makes sense that those things would effect how they behaved. I don't think it's about moral character but more about getting through hard things. Elias lost 3 mother figures he was close to, was shot, fell in love for the first time and got dragged through Hell becaus eof it, learned about a secret little brother, was kidnapped, his mother went on the run, his step mother turned out to be an imposter, he boyfriend went to conversion camp, I mean... A LOT has happened to Elias. He got through it, went home and now he's in a different place.

If Elias had gone through all of that and it not had any negative effect on him he'd have to be a robot.

They are bound to change and become more complex and nuanced and less black and white as they get older and have more life experience. Now they are young men 19 and 20, that is a very different situation. We have to allow characters to make mistakes, learn from them and grow otherwise they wouldn't be 3 dimensional and I really like that Secret Lives (as they said on Degrassi) Goes there! with its characters.

[gidi]

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[gidi]

MissFinlandia send next clip
sorry I mssed it

[cybersparky]

Apr 3, 2016 19:39:18 GMT -5 HQ75 said:

Kalle was drunk Jesse was ALSO drunk. They were both drunk. There has never been any indication that Kalle blacked out or didn't remember what happened. 2 drunk people get together and have sex all the time and it doesn't have to mean anything nefarious has happened.
Kalle has long had a problem with drinking too much under duress so it's really just part of his character, not a new thing resulting from his current situation

Jesse to me seems like a really nice guy who is young and single and dating. I saw nothing sleazy about him at all but obviously that is subjective and we each have our own boundaries vis a vis sexual activity outside of a relationship.

I just don't like the automatic assumption that Jesse bad guy. He had no way of knowing Elias would know who is story was about and it was a funny anecdote and I would have thought it was funny if I don't know folks personally involved.

Many Western cultures are not as reserved about sexual activity and nudity and I think it's good to be mindful of that when we are watching shows set in countries that aren't our own because it allows us to view people behaviors in a different context than how we in our own lives might perceive them.

Lari and Elias were 15 and 16 when we first met them. A lot of horrible things happened to both of them over the years and it makes sense that those things would effect how they behaved. I don't think it's about moral character but more about getting through hard things. Elias lost 3 mother figures he was close to, was shot, fell in love for the first time and got dragged through Hell becaus eof it, learned about a secret little brother, was kidnapped, his mother went on the run, his step mother turned out to be an imposter, he boyfriend went to conversion camp, I mean... A LOT has happened to Elias. He got through it, went home and now he's in a different place.

If Elias had gone through all of that and it not had any negative effect on him he'd have to be a robot.

They are bound to change and become more complex and nuanced and less black and white as they get older and have more life experience. Now they are young men 19 and 20, that is a very different situation. We have to allow characters to make mistakes, learn from them and grow otherwise they wouldn't be 3 dimensional and I really like that Secret Lives (as they said on Degrassi) Goes there! with its characters.

This just all of this couldn't have said it better, if i tried.





Its nice to have 3 dimensional soap characters, and the fact that secrete lives does this is a great relief, they are not using a cookie cutter for their characters that defines them in one shape and mind set but shows actual development of them, and not having them make the same mistakes and in similar situations, every single time, just for the drama of it all.





Its something that has been missing from story telling on alot of soap's for a long time now, where they now just have a build up and then a big reveal and then on to the next drama, with no actual character development,
i find it really refreshing that there is some change in the characters and they are more engaging to me as a viewer, as i can empathise with them more for their growth as a "person". 

[gidi]

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[gidi]

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[gidi]

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