elliot
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Post by elliot on Dec 12, 2011 8:37:45 GMT -5
I agree about Jo/Thore's chemisty, the scenes in the hospital were wonderful, but I do get where you're coming from when you say that something was missing. Sonia, you said jumping off a bridge, I actually would have liked if Olli was almost hit by the car and the old lady helped him out of the street. Another thing that bothered me was that we saw Christian's connection to Olli, in after Olli cried out for him he came back and was stable. When Christian cried out for Olli, Olli didn't seem to feel him. I would have liked to have seen a connection then. With all the times that Olli pushed Christian away, it would have been nice in the moment for to see that Olli was still connect to Christian, but we never did. While he was with R he was so busy pushing him away. Christian call him and he ignored it. Christian was standing across the hall from him and if for just a moment he hesitated and felt something was wrong, even if he ignored it, it would have shown that he was battling to break the connection. I would like to see that. Charlie said that there is a special connection between the two of them. I've seen Christian's, I'd like to see an example of Olli's. ciao twatts! sorry, I prefer if nothing bad will happen to our boys in the future, they have been so many pain! About the connection between them, it's a soap and fortunately it's not a snort one, like with clones, resurrections or brain transplant! I liked too to see the coincidence of Olli crying and Christian wake up, but IMO it's only a soapy thing; their connection is more deep than a sort of "telephaty", it's a natural correspondance of feeling and it's evident when they are together. Or, if you like this kind of things, do you remember Christian saying "Ich liebe dich so sehr" and Olli waking up? soooo soapy! A psychic connection of some sort would surely have done away with much of the tension as wouldn't it have meant that Olli have known immediately that Christian's heart had been restarted and wouldn't he then have rushed back to the gym rather than wander the streets believing that Christian was dead? For me it's enough that they simply don't feel complete without the other and that is important enough to keep them together despite whatever obstacles and troubles life throws their way. I do agree that the scene with the old lady could have been played out to much better effect. I would have liked her to tell Olli that she was happy that she had not wasted a second of the time she'd had with her husband and that she could look back on their relationship with no regrets prompting Olli to do just that the second he realises that he has been given a second change. But at the end of the day it was nothing more than a clunky plot device to get him back to the hospital.
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Trish
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Post by Trish on Dec 12, 2011 9:19:36 GMT -5
I have to agree elliot. It was just a way to get Olli to the hospital.
Olli told R that he gave up on Christian even though he loved him and in that eppy, they showed him still doing that. He left the ring, instead of staying there and begging Christian to come back to him. He was at the hospital and he couldn't bare the thought of seeing him in a cold room. It was like him running away with R, because he didn't want to say goodbye, when he thought he was moving. I just wanted to see Olli stand by Christian and fight for him, the way the Christian faught for Olli in the ring, but he never did. Yet he was rewarded with finding out that Christian lived.
And philos, I don't want any ill will to the boys. They are happy and I want them to stay that way for a long time. I was extremely happy with Tuesday's eppy, it's just that Monday's fell flat for me, I think think with just a few changes, that it could have been so much better.
I feel the way that I feel. Yes that scene with Chris holding hands in the hospital was soapy, but like him wiling Olli to wake up, it was his thought of Olli, along with Olivia of course, that kept him from beating Axel. So there was a mutual connection there. Here there wasn't.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2011 9:34:26 GMT -5
if I should honestly say what I think about that lovely Chrolli reconciliation - beside really good acting !!! and some cute lovey -dovey scenes in the hospital - It was the most stupid reconciliation ever ! one fool proved and demonstrated his endless love for his ex-hubby through stupid and excessive violence in the boxing ring and almost killed himself - how romantic and the other fool through shock therapy immediately forgot all his fears, disappointments and pain last few months and swore eternal love to his resurrected ex-hubby hallelujah ! Chrolli4ever sorry I'm not in a romatic mood today
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philos
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Post by philos on Dec 12, 2011 9:45:53 GMT -5
I have to agree elliot. It was just a way to get Olli to the hospital. Olli told R that he gave up on Christian even though he loved him and in that eppy, they showed him still doing that. He left the ring, instead of staying there and begging Christian to come back to him. He was at the hospital and he couldn't bare the thought of seeing him in a cold room. It was like him running away with R, because he didn't want to say goodbye, when he thought he was moving. I just wanted to see Olli stand by Christian and fight for him, the way the Christian faught for Olli in the ring, but he never did. Yet he was rewarded with finding out that Christian lived. And philos, I don't want any ill will to the boys. They are happy and I want them to stay that way for a long time. I was extremely happy with Tuesday's eppy, it's just that Monday's fell flat for me, I think think with just a few changes, that it could have been so much better. I feel the way that I feel. Yes that scene with Chris holding hands in the hospital was soapy, but like him wiling Olli to wake up, it was his thought of Olli, along with Olivia of course, that kept him from beating Axel. So there was a mutual connection there. Here there wasn't. Sorry, twatts, I can't agree with you; the way one person is reacting to his pain is different than another; Olli probably is one that can't stand with a so big dolor, so we prefer to not see him. He runs from the ring when Chris was pratically death and Daniel stopped briefly to reanimate him. He was destroyed, so in the Hospital too he couldn't support to see the body of Chris; about the fight for him, what should he do? He runs immediatly when he knew Chris was boxing. Last remark about the old scene in the hospital: Christian did the same, he left Olli alone to have his revenge; without Olivia he hasn't know what happened to Olli. My dear friend, in any case naturally you are free to feel as you are, I hope that you'll recover a better feeling asap; for myself, I'm so happy to see them together and about the last two ep, in my mind are exactly the mirror of the one that I mentioned before. The differences are that now it will represent the end of a so bad period and ... that for me our two guys are a lot more gorgeous!
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Trish
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Post by Trish on Dec 12, 2011 10:03:20 GMT -5
I have to agree elliot. It was just a way to get Olli to the hospital. Olli told R that he gave up on Christian even though he loved him and in that eppy, they showed him still doing that. He left the ring, instead of staying there and begging Christian to come back to him. He was at the hospital and he couldn't bare the thought of seeing him in a cold room. It was like him running away with R, because he didn't want to say goodbye, when he thought he was moving. I just wanted to see Olli stand by Christian and fight for him, the way the Christian faught for Olli in the ring, but he never did. Yet he was rewarded with finding out that Christian lived. And philos, I don't want any ill will to the boys. They are happy and I want them to stay that way for a long time. I was extremely happy with Tuesday's eppy, it's just that Monday's fell flat for me, I think think with just a few changes, that it could have been so much better. I feel the way that I feel. Yes that scene with Chris holding hands in the hospital was soapy, but like him wiling Olli to wake up, it was his thought of Olli, along with Olivia of course, that kept him from beating Axel. So there was a mutual connection there. Here there wasn't. Sorry, twatts, I can't agree with you; the way one person is reacting to his pain is different than another; Olli probably is one that can't stand with a so big dolor, so we prefer to not see him. He runs from the ring when Chris was pratically death and Daniel stopped briefly to reanimate him. He was destroyed, so in the Hospital too he couldn't support to see the body of Chris; about the fight for him, what should he do? He runs immediatly when he knew Chris was boxing. Last remark about the old scene in the hospital: Christian did the same, he left Olli alone to have his revenge; without Olivia he hasn't know what happened to Olli. My dear friend, in any case naturally you are free to feel as you are, I hope that you'll recover a better feeling asap; for myself, I'm so happy to see them together and about the last two ep, in my mind are exactly the mirror of the one that I mentioned before. The differences are that now it will represent the end of a so bad period and ... that for me our two guys are a lot more gorgeous! I said that I'm happy they are together philos, so I don't see the problem. My thinking that they could have done Olli's grief better has nothing to do with that. Like with Chrisitan not thinking and almost ruining his life because he thought that he might lose Olli, that's why I thought it would have been beter if Olli was almost hit by the car. Not thinking about what he was doing and the old lady walking him out of the street and telling him that Christian wouldn't want him doing what he was doing. That would have been very similar. Him saving the old lady made less sense. This again is my opinion and it won't change. I'm glad you like it. I didn't hate it, I just thought it oculd have been better.
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bel7003
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Post by bel7003 on Dec 12, 2011 10:30:20 GMT -5
Sorry, twatts, I can't agree with you; the way one person is reacting to his pain is different than another; Olli probably is one that can't stand with a so big dolor, so we prefer to not see him. He runs from the ring when Chris was pratically death and Daniel stopped briefly to reanimate him. He was destroyed, so in the Hospital too he couldn't support to see the body of Chris; about the fight for him, what should he do? He runs immediatly when he knew Chris was boxing. Last remark about the old scene in the hospital: Christian did the same, he left Olli alone to have his revenge; without Olivia he hasn't know what happened to Olli. My dear friend, in any case naturally you are free to feel as you are, I hope that you'll recover a better feeling asap; for myself, I'm so happy to see them together and about the last two ep, in my mind are exactly the mirror of the one that I mentioned before. The differences are that now it will represent the end of a so bad period and ... that for me our two guys are a lot more gorgeous! I said that I'm happy they are together philos, so I don't see the problem. My thinking that they could have done Olli's grief better has nothing to do with that. Like with Chrisitan not thinking and almost ruining his life because he thought that he might lose Olli, that's why I thought it would have been beter if Olli was almost hit by the car. Not thinking about what he was doing and the old lady walking him out of the street and telling him that Christian wouldn't want him doing what he was doing. That would have been very similar. Him saving the old lady made less sense. This again is my opinion and it won't change. I'm glad you like it. I didn't hate it, I just thought it oculd have been better. I think that it would have been great if things happened the way you describe. I would have liked to see that. But VL chose another way and I also liked it. The way I see things, after all the mess of the past months and all the hurt caused by/to both of them, both characters seemed to have come to a point in which they had already forgotten what brought them apart, in the first place. They both seemed to have got over Jessica and Lilly; the only thing that remained was the frustration and the feeling of not being loved by the other one, anymore. And they let themselves get caught in a spiral of "hate" and misconceptions, each one only seeing his own pain and failing to see the hurt they were causing the other. So, when it comes to the bottom line, I think they were so happy to see that the other one still loved them, neither one needed to say much to the other. In that scene where Olli finds out Christian is still alive and tells him that he loves him, the way both characters look at each other and the economy of words conveys that notion: there's no need to say or explain anything; they just need to know they are still loved.
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elliot
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Post by elliot on Dec 12, 2011 10:50:36 GMT -5
I said that I'm happy they are together philos, so I don't see the problem. My thinking that they could have done Olli's grief better has nothing to do with that. Like with Chrisitan not thinking and almost ruining his life because he thought that he might lose Olli, that's why I thought it would have been beter if Olli was almost hit by the car. Not thinking about what he was doing and the old lady walking him out of the street and telling him that Christian wouldn't want him doing what he was doing. That would have been very similar. Him saving the old lady made less sense. This again is my opinion and it won't change. I'm glad you like it. I didn't hate it, I just thought it oculd have been better. I think that it would have been great if things happened the way you describe. I would have liked to see that. But VL chose another way and I also liked it. The way I see things, after all the mess of the past months and all the hurt caused by/to both of them, both characters seemed to have come to a point in which they had already forgotten what brought them apart, in the first place. They both seemed to have got over Jessica and Lilly; the only thing that remained was the frustration and the feeling of not being loved by the other one, anymore. And they let themselves get caught in a spiral of "hate" and misconceptions, each one only seeing his own pain and failing to see the hurt they were causing the other. So, when it comes to the bottom line, I think they were so happy to see that the other one still loved them, neither one needed to say much to the other. In that scene where Olli finds out Christian is still alive and tells him that he loves him, the way both characters look at each other and the economy of words conveys that notion: there's no need to say or explain anything; they just need to know they are still loved. I hope they haven't permanently gotten over the Jessica/Lily issues as I think talking through resolving both things is surely important to the future of their marriage. It throws any kind of believability out of the window if they just both pretend nothing ever happened because Christian had a heart attack. They tried that before remember and it didn't work. I know it's not going to happen but I would love to see them take a crack at counselling like Helandi, mainly because it always feels that they're never given scenes where they get a chance to really express themselves at length. It's either romance or rows in tiny bite sized chunks that leave you dissatisfied.
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Trish
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Post by Trish on Dec 12, 2011 10:54:27 GMT -5
I totally agree bel. That's why I can get past Monday's show. From the point when Olli came into the room, nothing else mattered.
As I said, it's just that everything prior to that just didn't seem quite dramatic enough. Yes Olli cried, but you think about the day before. Christian had 2 flashbacks when he was at the boxing club. As distraught as Olli was, he had none. The last ones they showed him having were the 3some and Olli throwing away his ring.
Yeah he told R that he made a mistake pushing Chrstian away, but I bit more of him lost in his own thoughts would have been good. JMO.
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Post by phoenix-feather on Dec 12, 2011 11:23:08 GMT -5
Yeah he told R that he made a mistake pushing Chrstian away, but I bit more of him lost in his own thoughts would have been good. JMO. I didn't expect Olli to be able to utter a single word at that point... for someone who is so distraught! I expected him to react the way he did when he witnessed Philip's accident
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Post by blaykee on Dec 12, 2011 11:24:59 GMT -5
Olli was more distraught when he saw Philip get hit by a car. This was his husband and I didn't buy that he really thought he was dead.
I just can't ever see them really talking things out. like elliot said all we ever get is bite sized chunks of things. I always feel like they speak a different language to each other. or us. (and no I don't mean german) lol
We will get that they are past those issues but the only reason they are past them is because time passed. I don't feel like we got Olli working through the 3some. Did he ever really think about it aside from blind anger for his husband? And not one of them even thought about Lily in the past 8 months, so i don't feel like either one tackled that personally either.
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Post by teachgirl on Dec 12, 2011 11:34:20 GMT -5
Olli was more distraught when he saw Philip get hit by a car. This was his husband and I didn't buy that he really thought he was dead. I just can't ever see them really talking things out. like elliot said all we ever get is bite sized chunks of things. I always feel like they speak a different language to each other. or us. (and no I don't mean german) lol We will get that they are past those issues but the only reason they are past them is because time passed. I don't feel like we got Olli working through the 3some. Did he ever really think about it aside from blind anger for his husband? And not one of them even thought about Lily in the past 8 months, so i don't feel like either one tackled that personally either. If the writers knew where this story was going from the beginning (and I'm pretty sure they did -- the whole arc is usually mapped out in advance), then the whole Philip accident reaction makes no sense. Either Olli's reaction here should have matched his previous one, or the previous one should never have been so over the top. The incidents really are parallel -- Olli blamed himself for Phili accident and, as he told Rafael, he blamed himself for Christian's collapse. Olli's grief is realistic to me the way Jo acted it when it stands alone, but the implicit comparison to the Philip reaction -- walking into the street, etc., mucks it up. The whole thing is effective for me emotionally because of the scenes in the hospital and the unspoken looks between them, especially that one where Olli says "I'm into you"; that look between them at the end conveys the real seriousness of the situation without them having to say anything. In other words, the acting saves it once again.
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Post by phoenix-feather on Dec 12, 2011 11:39:34 GMT -5
We will get that they are past those issues but the only reason they are past them is because time passed. I don't feel like we got Olli working through the 3some. Did he ever really think about it aside from blind anger for his husband? And not one of them even thought about Lily in the past 8 months, so i don't feel like either one tackled that personally either. I suppose they want us to believe it all happened off-screen.... and when they don't verbally resolve their issues onscreen, it leaves them with a convenient option to do a copy-paste the next time
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Post by sonia38 on Dec 12, 2011 11:57:51 GMT -5
Olli was pretty distraught about Phillip, Phillip was lying up in that hospital bed a pretty long time which gave Olli so much time to wallow in self pity of guilt and despair over an accident he thought was his fault. He found out that Christian was alive the same day he thought he was dead, he showed enough grief. Once he saw the guy in the ring gave the sign that Chris was gone so was Olli, when he left that ring he was practically incoherent, he could not even see what was taken place in the ring because his vision was so blurry. He went home bawling, realized what a mistake he made with Chris and he wandered the street in a daze. He looked pretty distraught to me. I just don’t understand what people wanted him to do, attempt to kill himself because he thought he lost Chris for good? Would that have shown how distraught he was?
We really don’t know what’s going to happened next, do we? They might surprise us and have their talk about all their issues but we have to wait and see instead of jumping to conclusions.
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Post by teachgirl on Dec 12, 2011 12:11:04 GMT -5
Olli was pretty distraught about Phillip, Phillip was lying up in that hospital bed a pretty long time which gave Olli so much time to wallow in self pity of guilt and despair over an accident he thought was his fault. He found out that Christian was alive the same day he thought he was dead, he showed enough grief. Once he saw the guy in the ring gave the sign that Chris was gone so was Olli, when he left that ring he was practically incoherent, he could not even see what was taken place in the ring because his vision was so blurry. He went home bawling, realized what a mistake he made with Chris and he wandered the street in a daze. He looked pretty distraught to me. I just don’t understand what people wanted him to do, attempt to kill himself because he thought he lost Chris for good? Would that have shown how distraught he was? We really don’t know what’s going to happened next, do we? They might surprise us and have their talk about all their issues but we have to wait and see instead of jumping to conclusions. Kind of ironic, isn't it, that Olli warns Christian about avoiding self-pity when he himself went a bit overboard on it over the accident? Could Olli actually have learned something?
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Post by sonia38 on Dec 12, 2011 12:18:17 GMT -5
Hopefully they will both learn from the tons of mistakes they both made.
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Trish
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Post by Trish on Dec 12, 2011 12:24:02 GMT -5
Olli was pretty distraught about Phillip, Phillip was lying up in that hospital bed a pretty long time which gave Olli so much time to wallow in self pity of guilt and despair over an accident he thought was his fault. He found out that Christian was alive the same day he thought he was dead, he showed enough grief. Once he saw the guy in the ring gave the sign that Chris was gone so was Olli, when he left that ring he was practically incoherent, he could not even see what was taken place in the ring because his vision was so blurry. He went home bawling, realized what a mistake he made with Chris and he wandered the street in a daze. He looked pretty distraught to me. I just don’t understand what people wanted him to do, attempt to kill himself because he thought he lost Chris for good? Would that have shown how distraught he was? We really don’t know what’s going to happened next, do we? They might surprise us and have their talk about all their issues but we have to wait and see instead of jumping to conclusions. No, as I said, I don't want Olli trying to kill himself, but Andi had just said, that he didn't want Olli doing anything stupid. He was completely out of it. Yet there's a skretching tire and that was enough to bring him out of his funk so that he could help the lady out of the street. The full effect of his sorrow would have been seen if he was the one almost hit and a senile old woman, has to bring him out of the street. The pieces were there, they just weren't used to the full potential. Like Christian asking if he was in heaven. That would have been more affective, if it happened before all those people came running in. Afterwards, it just seemed odd.
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elliot
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Post by elliot on Dec 12, 2011 12:31:45 GMT -5
We really don’t know what’s going to happened next, do we? They might surprise us and have their talk about all their issues but we have to wait and see instead of jumping to conclusions. If they do it will indeed be a surprise. The Rob and Rebecca SL dragged on for months and ended with the issues it threw up supposedly explained and resolved off screen. So while thinking that this SL will be given the same treatment may be jumping to conclusions, it's not as if VL have really given us any reason to think otherwise.
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Post by iritalia on Dec 13, 2011 12:13:11 GMT -5
Interesting to see how people see the same episodes so differently. You can get insights from other posts on those little moments that perhaps left you wondering. On a totally superficial level I really enjoyed the 5th and found it quite emotional. I thought Jo did a fabulous job with his scenes even if they were set up as a means to an end. The final reunion, although concise, was touching and worked well enough. As for the 6th it left me somewhat flat. Although the scenes together were very sweet and tender I felt Thore was just going through the motions. After it was over I thought to myself he was perhaps not comfortable having to get smoochy, smoochy again after such a long time. I didn't feel that before especially during the Brandenburg job offer episode, but on this occasion I thought he was rather nonchalant. Maybe it was the direction and it has improved after repeat watching but that first opinion still sticks in my head.
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LadyArmand
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Post by LadyArmand on Dec 13, 2011 12:39:37 GMT -5
I love it…although it’s not all together that surprising…which if you think about it is the sad part.
They’re back together and some people still find a reason/excuse to berate Olli because he didn’t grieve for Christian the way they wanted him to.
Although from the beginning of this whole storyline not a hell of a lot as gone anywhere even remotely the way anyone has wanted it to…but I digress.
As soon as Olli heard that Christian was boxing the first thing he does is have Andi call Daniel to tell him that Christian shouldn’t be boxing because of his heart.
When that fails he immediately rushes out the door once he finds out that Andi knows where Christian and Daniel are. He is shown rushing down the street, then running moving people out of his way to get to the boxing club.
The moment he walks in Christian collapses, and then he rushes to the ring again pushing people out of his way to get to Christian.
Olli is seen first holding Christian’s hand and saying “Christian stay here, please…” (sounds a hell of a lot like begging him to stay….but maybe that’s just me and my old ass ears).
Unlike what has been said (because when it comes to Olli and his responses as opposed to Christian and his, some love to rewrite what was actually on screen) Olli don’t give up on Christian first. It’s not like he walked out of the ring while they were still working on Christian. Everyone including Daniel had stopped all who were trying to help Christian had dejected faces as if it were over. It was then that Olli slowly backed out of the ring and in a daze left the boxing club. Then Daniel got a second wind or something and started to work on Christian again.
People respond to grief differently. I think the comparison to him leaving with Rafa when Olli thought and Christian let him think he was leaving down, and what was going on for him during what happened with Philip are unwarranted and to me don’t make much sense, because the situations were all vastly different.
He didn’t want to remember Christian in a cold sterile white room. And yet if anyone who is bashing Olli and how he responded bothers to look, he was wandering the streets close enough to the hospital to find the old woman in the first place. So while on a conscious level he may not have wanted to see Christian that way, he was subconsciously being drawn near enough to the hospital to actually have made it there on his own.
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Post by blaykee on Dec 13, 2011 12:47:40 GMT -5
actually he did walk out of the ring while they were still working on him.
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ncecho
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Post by ncecho on Dec 13, 2011 13:13:40 GMT -5
I looked at the episode again and when Olli backed out of the ring it didn't look as if anyone was doing anything to Christian. When he was backing away and the vision was all blurry, Daniel had again started pumping. So I think that when Olli initially left the ring he believed that they couldn't bring him back and in his state didn't realize what he was seeing
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bel7003
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Post by bel7003 on Dec 13, 2011 13:53:27 GMT -5
To be honest, I don't see anything wrong with Olli's reaction. When he left the ring, he obviously thought Christian was dead. He witnessed the violence of Christian's attack on that asshole; he saw him fall flat on the ground; he saw Daniel and the other guy trying to revive him and failing. It was very clear he couldn't stand to see Christian dead, specially because he must have realized, at that precise moment, he would no longer be able to be with him; and he probably felt the weight of his guilt for having given up on him. His suffering was obvious and I really don't see what else he could have done to show it more. Except try to kill himself or get run over by a car because he wasn't paying attention. But if he did that, who would save him? No one knew where he was and Christian was unable to do it. And I loved the scene in the end, where Olli looks at Christian in amazement, as if he didn't believe his luck and was looking at the most precious thing in his life, almost afraid to touch it and break it. Of course VL could have done things differently, but, well... they could have done a lot of things differently.
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Post by teachgirl on Dec 13, 2011 14:04:23 GMT -5
And I loved the scene in the end, where Olli looks at Christian in amazement, as if he didn't believe his luck and was looking at the most precious thing in his life, almost afraid to touch it and break it. Aw, @bel, that is a beautiful description; it captures his expression exactly.
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Trish
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Post by Trish on Dec 13, 2011 14:43:03 GMT -5
actually he did walk out of the ring while they were still working on him. Thanks blaykee. The blurry vision that Olli has is of Daniel doing CPR on Christian, while he was backing out. Also, Christian didn't let Olli believe he was leaving. He kept trying to tell him that there was a reason for him to stay, but Olli said that there wasn't and that he was free to go. I guess it is obvious that we saw that scene differently as well.
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Post by sonia38 on Dec 13, 2011 15:24:43 GMT -5
Olli did not see a thing, we did but all olli saw was the guy giving the signal that Christian was gone. He backed up not noticing a thing, he was too far gone. It's funny for real, how we can truly see the same scene and get a a different interpretation from it.
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