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Post by lolaruns on Apr 11, 2011 15:36:11 GMT -5
I think at this point it would be pretty hard to deny that Christian does enjoy the sex with Olli And he does that regardless of how ok he is with a stripping Jess. That's exactly why I find this topic and an SL based on "Oh, Christian still likes women" completely late. I don't think that's something you have to analyze after 3 years of being with a man and after accepting to marry him. It could have been more or less appropiate or at least acceptable if this SL took place before his coming out. Not now. It's completely ridiculous to have doubts at this point. And of course, as everybody said, it's not a matter of liking, it's a matter of who you love or who you chose to be with for the rest of your life. We never noticed he doesn't enjoy sex with Olli , at least I don't remember ;D That doesn't make much sense to me either. I could *maybe* understand it if it was about a pregancy issue (but 1.) I don't think sex happened and 2.) they want to play Jana as sexy hot and trampy, not have her run around in a fake pregnancy belly for months), but other than that. If Christian was more into women, nobody forced him to stick with Olli and marry him, but he did. Why would he do that if he was missing something. I get why it's annoying to Olli that Christian tends to go to women in these situations, but shouldn't the sex of the person be only a "Schönheitsfehler"? The real problem is that Christian lashes out like that at all. It wouldn't be any better if ran around kissing random dudes when he is stressed in his marriage.
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Post by evajan2 on Apr 11, 2011 15:35:57 GMT -5
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Post by chrolliforever7 on Apr 11, 2011 15:37:38 GMT -5
AGREED. I wouldn't be able to take it.
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Trish
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Post by Trish on Apr 11, 2011 15:38:21 GMT -5
As evident when he was watching Olli laying at the bottom of the bed and decided he needed to be down there with him, he definitely enjoys having sex with Olli
I agree this is a subject that should have been addressed back in the Rebecca days, before they got married. Christian marrying Olli, even going so far as to ask him to marry him after he had already accepted Olli's proposal, shows that he's who he wants to spend the rest of his life with.
To me it's not that he slept with a women, which I don't think he did, it's that he slept with anyone. Do they want us to believe that if Christian slept with a man, Olli wouldn't have trouble with it? Maybe it's the baby issue again, since Olli can't give Christian one and a woman can.
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gelybi
Junior Member
Last passionate kiss???
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Post by gelybi on Apr 11, 2011 16:18:29 GMT -5
As evident when he was watching Olli laying at the bottom of the bed and decided he needed to be down there with him, he definitely enjoys having sex with Olli I agree this is a subject that should have been addressed back in the Rebecca days, before they got married. Christian marrying Olli, even going so far as to ask him to marry him after he had already accepted Olli's proposal, shows that he's who he wants to spend the rest of his life with. To me it's not that he slept with a women, which I don't think he did, it's that he slept with anyone. Do they want us to believe that if Christian slept with a man, Olli wouldn't have trouble with it? Maybe it's the baby issue again, since Olli can't give Christian one and a woman can. Yes, I think it's all about the baby issue. Olli's fears about Christian leaving him for a woman can be justified only if you think that a woman can give him what Olli can not. It's not logical to think that in the case of Christian leaving him, it'd feel better if it is for a man. If the person you love is going to leave you for someone else the gender of that person is the least important thing IMO.
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Post by teachgirl on Apr 11, 2011 16:27:35 GMT -5
That's exactly why I find this topic and an SL based on "Oh, Christian still likes women" completely late. I don't think that's something you have to analyze after 3 years of being with a man and after accepting to marry him. It could have been more or less appropiate or at least acceptable if this SL took place before his coming out. Not now. It's completely ridiculous to have doubts at this point. And of course, as everybody said, it's not a matter of liking, it's a matter of who you love or who you chose to be with for the rest of your life. We never noticed he doesn't enjoy sex with Olli , at least I don't remember ;D That doesn't make much sense to me either. I could *maybe* understand it if it was about a pregancy issue (but 1.) I don't think sex happened and 2.) they want to play Jana as sexy hot and trampy, not have her run around in a fake pregnancy belly for months), but other than that. If Christian was more into women, nobody forced him to stick with Olli and marry him, but he did. Why would he do that if he was missing something. I get why it's annoying to Olli that Christian tends to go to women in these situations, but shouldn't the sex of the person be only a "Schönheitsfehler"? The real problem is that Christian lashes out like that at all. It wouldn't be any better if ran around kissing random dudes when he is stressed in his marriage. Agreed. Repeating this behavior when he knows how much it hurts Olli is indefensible.
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Post by teachgirl on Apr 11, 2011 16:35:08 GMT -5
As evident when he was watching Olli laying at the bottom of the bed and decided he needed to be down there with him, he definitely enjoys having sex with Olli I agree this is a subject that should have been addressed back in the Rebecca days, before they got married. Christian marrying Olli, even going so far as to ask him to marry him after he had already accepted Olli's proposal, shows that he's who he wants to spend the rest of his life with. To me it's not that he slept with a women, which I don't think he did, it's that he slept with anyone. Do they want us to believe that if Christian slept with a man, Olli wouldn't have trouble with it? Maybe it's the baby issue again, since Olli can't give Christian one and a woman can. Yes, I think it's all about the baby issue. Olli's fears about Christian leaving him for a woman can be justified only if you think that a woman can give him what Olli can not. It's not logical to think that in the case of Christian leaving him, it'd feel better if it is for a man. If the person you love is going to leave you for someone else the gender of that person is the least important thing IMO. I hadn't thought about this, but I think you are right. I was thinking of the Henriette-visit episode when Olli spoke about disappointing his mother by not being able to give her grandchildren and then joking about Christian not being Christina or something. And then at the beginning of the baby storyline when Olli was so relieved when Christian swore he was finished with women, even for babymaking (the lesbian couple were obviously unthreatening in that regard). Can't believe I'm finding actual consistency in the writing here .
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88chrolli
Full Member
Chrolli f?r immer zusammen
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Post by 88chrolli on Apr 11, 2011 16:54:53 GMT -5
It was disgusting and ridiculous And the last scene with Olli - alone in the forest - it was heartbreaking (sorry, but IMO is Jana the worst actress in the whole VL-show ) I hate, i really hate this episode and i'm agree with you, the final with Olli, it's horrible. I hate see Olli lioke this, but Chris's eyes are too insupportable to watch. He wants it terribly. someone asked me if I was angry against him, but I'm sorry I can not. I hate Jessica? I can't say that i Hate Jana because i don't know her. Although I admit that I have a little trouble with the idea that she is with Thore. Unfortunately, this episode is just the beginning and I do not know if I'm having the courage to see them suffer, the one and another.
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Trish
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Post by Trish on Apr 11, 2011 17:03:31 GMT -5
As long as they're suffering, because they can't stand the fact that they can't be together, I'll be okay. I might have trouble with Olli thinking that Christian is lusting after every woman he meets. Afterall Jessica is a slut, so she's not a threat, so Olli can't think that Christian would want her over him.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2011 17:11:43 GMT -5
It was disgusting and ridiculous And the last scene with Olli - alone in the forest - it was heartbreaking (sorry, but IMO is Jana the worst actress in the whole VL-show ) I hate, i really hate this episode and i'm agree with you, the final with Olli, it's horrible. I hate see Olli lioke this, but Chris's eyes are too insupportable to watch. He wants it terribly. someone asked me if I was angry against him, but I'm sorry I can not. I hate Jessica? I can't say that i Hate Jana because i don't know her. Although I admit that I have a little trouble with the idea that she is with Thore. Unfortunately, this episode is just the beginning and I do not know if I'm having the courage to see them suffer, the one and another. Please don't get me wrong ... I have no problem with Jana .. I don't like her "acting" that's all
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88chrolli
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Chrolli f?r immer zusammen
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Post by 88chrolli on Apr 11, 2011 17:27:08 GMT -5
I hate, i really hate this episode and i'm agree with you, the final with Olli, it's horrible. I hate see Olli lioke this, but Chris's eyes are too insupportable to watch. He wants it terribly. someone asked me if I was angry against him, but I'm sorry I can not. I hate Jessica? I can't say that i Hate Jana because i don't know her. Although I admit that I have a little trouble with the idea that she is with Thore. Unfortunately, this episode is just the beginning and I do not know if I'm having the courage to see them suffer, the one and another. Please don't get me wrong ... I have no problem with Jana .. I don't like her "acting" that's all I know do not worry, I understood and I'm the same opinion as you. It's just my opinion I wrote.
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jos87
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Post by jos87 on Apr 11, 2011 18:12:29 GMT -5
I don't know what think about this episode. Some scenes are totally pathetic (the flashbacks).The final part was very good. But i'm agree with what mitsaso said in his first post when he said: But did Christian cheat? Absolutely not. And watching a woman strip in a stag party and comment on her is not a betrayal to Olli by any meaning of the word. Not to mention that Christian kept slipping into "Thore mode" during those scenes, especially in the stripping scene... he all but said "look how hot my girlfriend is! And I'm tapping that!! *fist bump*"!
As for the photo... it's obvious that Christian was already asleep when it was taken... that poor woman is struggling to keep him balanced on her chest..!!! lolol
However i think that a married man should not put himself in that situation;touch another body (no metter if male or female...i think this) is not a betrayal but is something that a man with a husband/wife must not do.
i don't like Jana as actress,too. Hope that she can improve in her future storylines
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Post by sonia38 on Apr 11, 2011 18:20:59 GMT -5
I really don't see what all the fuss is about, the episode did not seem so bad to me. These two grown men look father stupid being duped by the maid Jessica, you would think by now the two of them would have more sense but it seems they have the IQ of a one year old.
All I know is, if Olli ever sees that picture of Christian's hand on Jessica's ta ta, it will be bye bye Christian. I'm sorry to say but the two of them just look foolish being taken in by Jessica.
I guess after Christian said I was sorry, he expected Olli to do what he always does and forgive him and fall back into his waiting arms but he was shocked this time, cause this time sorry just does not cut it. It really looks like Olli is fed up with all his crap. Christian should have had the common sense to speak to his husband in the privacy of their own home or anywhere in privacy but in NL with the waitress looking on and most likely hearing what was said was inexcusable.
If the shoe was on the other foot Christian would have a coronary.
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Trish
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Post by Trish on Apr 11, 2011 18:57:26 GMT -5
It is safe to give bad news in public. It hopefully keeps them from geting too upset.
I agree, you would think that they would know better than to listen to anything Jessica said, even with the pictures. Seeing her lurking in the bckground she is obviously going to milk this for all it's worth. Even if Olli is hurt, I'm glad Christian told Olli, that way she won't be lurking in the shadows trying to blackmail him too.
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jos87
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Post by jos87 on Apr 11, 2011 18:58:10 GMT -5
i see this episode for the second time and my reaction is a little different respect before. But i continue to find pathetic some flashback moments where,like I said in another post, seem to see Thore and Jana,and not Christian and Jessica. We'll see tomorrow what will happen. I appreciate that Christian says the truth but i understand that is insufficient for Olli to forgive him in short time
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joanna
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Former Verbotene Liebe Champion.
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Post by joanna on Apr 11, 2011 19:39:35 GMT -5
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jos87
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Post by jos87 on Apr 11, 2011 19:46:13 GMT -5
Thank you joanna. What's your opinion about the episode?if you want,i'd like to know your opinion. If you don't want no problem
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joanna
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Former Verbotene Liebe Champion.
Posts: 8,547
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Post by joanna on Apr 11, 2011 21:31:21 GMT -5
Thank you joanna. What's your opinion about the episode?if you want,i'd like to know your opinion. If you don't want no problem Having spent ALL night going through most of this 'fun' episode frame-by-wuvverly freeze frame and it now being the middle of the night, I haven't got much space in my (now sort of spaced out!) head left for commenting, I'm afraid! I'll give it a lil go, though...with no guarantees at all that any of it will make sense (or that I won't regret typing it later!)... I don't think it's certain at all that either Christian or Andi 'did anything' with Jessica...."It's your turn, Fritzsche"...*cue Jessica taking 'incriminating' piccy after no doubt just taking one with Christian.* She was already seemingly trying to 'liven' Andi up by shoving ice cubes down his top as he was so out of it...So just in terms of them both being in any 'fit state' to even be able to 'do' anything with her, it's not in any way at all plausible. Andi was SO drunk that he wasn't even physically able to get Jessica's shoe to his mouth to drink the champagne out of it....but he's with it enough to 'perform', huh? And Christian looks a lil bit like he's asleep (or at least very out of it if he's still awake) in that mobile phone pic Jessica had of them. The thing is, though, 'the show' hasn't made it crystal clear either way...so IF[/u] it's meant to be that they really have both slept with her (makes me cringe typing that)....well, that's the point...we're stuck on 'IF'....and will be forever stuck on it if no 'reveal' comes. I personally think that if you're going to do something so serious to Chrolli, then, if it really happened, you absolutely confirm it to the audience/fans in some way. I personally don't think it's fair to forever have them wonder, as there's then the problem of moving on from the unresolved... So, yes, I think there's either going to be some kind of 'reveal' at some point or it really is 'all' meant to have really happened and so we'll maybe not be filled in anymore on it...and if the latter, then that means doubts over Christian's fidelity will forever hang over many fans' heads, wondering on the 'reveal' that will never come. Won't say more on what I think to that... ...However, as I first said, I think it's TOO unclear that they did anything with her...I'm thinking Jessica is totally playing them (and on their not remembering whether they did anything with her or not) and that they, yes, behaved 'inappropriately' with her, but didn't go further than that. And what might be key is the fact Christian and Andi can remember ALMOST everything but actually sleeping with her... Btw, that 'nodding/dirty' look they had Christian give to Andi/the camera...I think that regardless of what he is or isn't meant to have done with Jessica, that was completely unnecessary for VL to add in. That shouldn't have gone in at all, in my opinion. They weren't exactly painting Christian in the best of lights to begin with... I think at least one more 'cabin' scene is now NEEDED. I don't know how many Chrolli fans said 'cabin' has been essentially ruined for now...so I think they need to have Christian and Olli be seen there at least once more, so it becomes a 'happy Chrolli place' again.
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Post by lolaruns on Apr 11, 2011 23:25:26 GMT -5
Some side thoughts: - I don't think that Jessica used KO Tropfen/knockout drugs (the thing she used on Andi the last time) on them. For that they were too lively still in the scenes we saw and Jessica seemed to be surprised when she heard they had blackouts. The scene where she asks whether Olli's husband knows that Christian has something left for women too she also looked vaguely surprised? irritated? Like it wasn't something she expected. - Like I said Jessica didn't really look like somebody who had just had sex. But I think she was planning to use their inappropriate behavior with her to annoy them and their partners, particularly Helena. - I'm not really pleased that Christian's first reaction was also to lie to Olli/do the mad caper antics with hiding Jessica's corsett, before he saw Jessica's picture proof of his "guilt". I definitely would have liked more introspection of him, more "OMG, what's that gonna do to my relationship/to Olli", visible, more than the voice over. - I don't think that Christian was knocked out in his picture. I thought the sequence was to mean that Christian remembers it when he saw the photo. Jessica goes over to Andi and says it's Andi's turn now (indicating that she shot the picture with Christian first), but if Christian remembers Jessica shooting the picture with Andi (his shakey POV shot and the initial zoom to his face before they show it) that means that he was awake-ish after his pic was taken (of course he could still have been zoned out during the picture and woken up slightly when she dropped him to move over to Andi), but there is also the issue of his kinda grabby hand from below.
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Post by luckycharm on Apr 11, 2011 23:46:56 GMT -5
So many random thoughts. 1) Drinking out of a worn shoe, that a woman has been wearing all day long, and dancing and sweating in.....EW! EW! EW! I have no idea how Olli will forgive such repulsive behaviour from Christian or want to ever kiss that mouth. (foreshadowing? Foot-in-mouth syndrome? Brava, VL, you clever you! ;D) 2) The whole flashback reminds me of an acid trip .....it was a psychedelic funhouse mind-fuck. They should have played Jefferson Airplane in the background. Reminds me of Placebo's song, "Meds" "I was alone, falling free, trying my best not to forget. What happened to us, what happened to me, what happened as I let it slip. I was confused by the powers that be, forgetting names and faces...."3) I felt awkward for Thore and Jana, as individuals, and as a couple. Thore's expressions when showing "lewd appreciation" for Jessica seemed quite forced. In a way, I felt like they were exploited a bit by VL, due to their RL status. Imagine having to act like the character that is played by the love of your life, and the hypothetical mother of your children, is just a sexual object to be leered at, her ass in front of their faces, while you are present, amongst your boys. Skeezy! [I guess it comes with the job/territory....but still....I'm just recalling Sebastian/Olivia at Sebastian's bachelor's party.....it felt a lot more empowering, in terms of Olivia's role, even as a "sex object", than it did for Jessica in this instance, likely because Olivia was a much more stronger character than Jessica, and the actress playing Olivia was a much stronger talent than Jana. I feel as if Jessica's characterization is not given any attention by VL, and that she's seen ONLY as a commodity for the "sexual allure" aspect] 4) Christian's attraction to women - it's not an either/or, as we can't help our attractions and he's never NOT been into women. His fidelity, however, is very much an either/or....as it's within his conscious control/action. 5) Christian going back to alcohol when he feels neglected/unheard and/or betrayed/hurt by Olli is a pattern of his, so, it's a nice continuity, esp. as we get how his current actions were directly after he caught Olli "going behind his back" and still keeping "fostering" an open option for them. In a way, Christian's subsequent actions with Jessica was saying, "you want me to be like a breeder that bad....let's go!" 6) Andi is an IDIOT - "fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice...." Hasn't he been in this exact position with Jessica before? 7) Olli going back to "the beginning"/cabin was a really nice symbolic touch. Every beginning is an end to something previous, and every end is a new beginning. 8) Why the fuck would Andi and Christian not question whether they not only slept with Jessice, but each other? Esp. after waking up "holding hands"? I call BULLSHIT, VL! BULLSHIT! 9) Jessica is way too happy that they didn't remember anything. If she was really that proud of her sexual prowess that ANY man can't resist her charms, that's a huge hit to take. "You rocked me that hard that I totally forgot about it!"..........unless she is/was always wanting to, use this as an opportunity to GAIN SOMETHING (and not just her vanity stroked). Ofc, bad guys can't win, in the long run, so there must be a foil to her GAIN (e.g., not wholly achieving what she set out to GAIN, in the first place, which calls into question the likelihood of either of them sleeping with her).....and DUH! Jessica having the camera ready (for evidence) is a blaring GIANT CLUE to her "plan"!!! 10) Chrolli SL needs a hard fall, in order for any depth in redemption to connect with viewers. So, it had to be, in some ways, "hard to watch".....and if they achieved that, with the viewers, then they set out to do what they intended. Redemption will be that much more riveting to watch, because the cause had to pull from us SOME outrage/reaction, in order for the effect to matter/for us to care. So, for those who are upset/couldn't stomach the scene, good, keep that feeling/that outrage/that emotion......the unfolding of the subsequent storyline will be that much more appetizing to watch. 11) LOVING THIS STORYLINE! Finally, no more 2 episodes story arches! Woot! 12) Bring on the angst, I'z ready! 13) Our angels, MercuryMay and Joanna, we would be as lost as Christian without his Olli, without you both. Danke! Danke!
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Post by fillelina on Apr 12, 2011 3:46:14 GMT -5
Thank you MM and Joanna.
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jos87
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Post by jos87 on Apr 12, 2011 7:33:53 GMT -5
Thanks to everyone for sharing your opinions about this episode. Reading all opinions seem that a great part of us don't believe that the cheating happened that night and that the flashback with Christian and Jessica (when she streaps in front of Christian and he does a stupid expression to the Andi/camera)was a little ridicoulous. And about this last point i think the same thing of luckycharm.
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Post by sonia38 on Apr 12, 2011 8:19:54 GMT -5
I just wanted to point out, as some as posted that Christian and Andy were holding hand, in fact they were not holding hands. Yes, their hands did touch, but in no way were they holding hands.
If you look at that picture closely, Christian looks practically asleep on Jessica’s chest. How did she get him to do that and take the picture at the same time? I certainly don’t believe that Christian was in his right mind when Jessica was taking those pictures or he would have must think that eventually Olli would see them and knowing something like that would drive him shitless. I believe he was so out of it he did not have a clue what he was doing. When Jessica was undoing his belt, he seems like he was in touch with his faculties so I don’t know how to explain that one away.
All I know is, I can’t wait to see what happens next.
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Trish
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Post by Trish on Apr 12, 2011 16:55:15 GMT -5
The belt thing was probably innocent. He didn't want to spoil Hagen's bachelor party.
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