SF
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Post by SF on May 24, 2011 13:22:14 GMT -5
hmm..
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SF
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Post by SF on May 24, 2011 13:08:10 GMT -5
soap lighting, excluding america but especially in europe, washes people out and makes them look so much LESS attractive than they actually are. i find it really bizarre. maybe they have less of a budget and more time restraints to take into consideration on these sorts of shows. but then again, cd covers aren't exactly true to life either. still i doubt your average bloke could look like that even if mariah careys retoucher spent a week photoshopping.
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SF
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Post by SF on May 24, 2011 11:25:02 GMT -5
mark, sorry to bother you with more questions. i know you've explained how sjors, jack and nina are all related. and how her dad died in the bath. but what happened to wiet's mum? i can't remember you mentioning that! did she die?! and also have jack and sjors (you said they were born on the show right?) been SORAS'd past wiet? did she start off older than them?
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SF
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Post by SF on May 23, 2011 18:21:24 GMT -5
christian owes olli time to think over his decision. the way christian talked about olli with charlie and rebecca today it was as if he hated him. christian hasn't excepted his responsibility yet. at least not in my eyes.
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SF
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Post by SF on May 23, 2011 17:17:54 GMT -5
i'm sorry but i really feel for wiet. i always get the impression she's trying her damned hardest just to fit in. she's still a baby. what happened to her mum and dad?!
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SF
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Post by SF on May 23, 2011 16:50:11 GMT -5
i don't not want them back together, i just think they shouldn't get back together at the end of this current tangental SL with theresa. i don't not like christian - and i don't appreciate words getting put in my mouth. i just think olli is the wronged party in this scenario. if i were a divorce lawyer dividing their assets i would certainly take a harsh line with christian, because he's the one who broke the promises they made to eachother. from a non-legalistic point of view, olli was there emotionally for christian. he wanted to talk to him, he was available. and christian ran away. he can't expect olli to wait endlessly for him. christian treats dana nicer than he treats olli. he has way more time for her. if he went and listened to olli the way he listens to dana, maybe i'd have some faith.
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SF
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Post by SF on May 23, 2011 16:17:12 GMT -5
it's not just pru. christian has acted like the fool he seems to have become. instead of talking to his husband he runs away - and this time he ran into the arms of jessica. olli works hard at their relationship. anyone remember the timetable? christian just expects it to 'feel right' and the moment it doesn't he runs away. there is never any effort on his part. it's immature. right now he doesn't feel like fighting for his relationship. so instead he sleeps with theresa. i mean it's just ridiculous!!
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SF
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Post by SF on May 23, 2011 15:12:40 GMT -5
Suddenly Wiet is guilty of the mess that was Ludwin at the begining? Sorry but no, in fact she was the most innocent part of the triangle. There was a main responsible of all what happens then and that was Edwin. He was the one who kissed Lucas, he was the one who kissed Wiet i agree. i too think edwin was largely at fault. it was understandable, he wasn't ready to come out yet. and no one gets to decide that for you. but i think he was wrong to make wiet believe he had the capacity to be in love with her. it's slightly forgivable because he was scared. but every time he looked at lucas staring him out and then knowingly took wiet in his arms and kissed her, to prove his 'heterosexuality' - that was wrong. and all this "wiet you were the perfect girl for me. but sadly i'm gay" business - i don't know how much i believe that either. but then again you always try to be nice to someone when you're breaking up with them and they don't deserve it. point is. wiet didn't deserve the hand she got dealt. and i still feel sorry for her because of it. and i admire how she prioritized her friendship with lucas over her own pride in the aftermath of the break up. i don't think i would be strong enough.
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SF
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Post by SF on May 23, 2011 14:58:01 GMT -5
something big?! hmm intriguing...
wonder if he gets his memory back? is that likely?!
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SF
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Post by SF on May 23, 2011 14:27:43 GMT -5
oh my god that boy is stunning.
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SF
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Post by SF on May 23, 2011 14:24:25 GMT -5
christian is a CHEATER. i'm sorry. that's not bending facts or anything, that's just what he is.
i think trying to justify his behaviour is wrong on SO many levels. if olli needs to break up with him then GOOD and if he can't find it within himself to forgive him then i support olli in that as well.
i think their relationship isn't what it was, and yes they've both changed and maybe they don't work the way they used to and maybe they haven't for a long time, so i'm interesting to see christian in another relationship. it's interesting that the spoilers don't mention any intense regret on christian's part after what happened with theresa.
sorry thats just the way i feel.
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SF
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Post by SF on May 23, 2011 9:51:28 GMT -5
i don't think you can ever expect proustian-esque standards from these kind of shows, for the very reasons you've just given. and because soap scripts are essentially quite formulaic and repetitive. if you look at some of the dialogue from the lucas/marco days "i don't want to lose you." "i don't want to lose you either" (from the scene in charlies) - it's almost as if they lifted it completely unchanged and shoved it straight into the lucas/edwin story. but then i guess that's where the acting comes in. you kind of rely on ferry the actor to indicate to you the viewer lucas true feelings. so watching those scenes i know lucas is creeped out by marco's clingyness but feels bad for the guy and doesn't want to hurt his feelings - whereas lucas is genuinely experiencing new feelings - be they love or whatever - for edwin. that's why i think it is very hard to analyze soap writing. and to try and come to definitive conclusions on things - like the whole debate on here recently about whether edwin was justifiable in his treatment of lucas. the writing, when you look at, doesn't tell you anything really. it's all instinctual and about what is coming across from the acting and the circumstances. everyone's opinion is so individual on those kinds of subjects that you're bound to have differences. that's where it gets interesting though, because it's amazing how disparate two opinions can be. i love it when people say "are we watching the same show?" because inevitably, you're not.
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SF
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Post by SF on May 23, 2011 7:02:51 GMT -5
to me, wiet is an insecure girl whose dealt with a lot of blows without the cushioned safety net nina (and at times lucas) has, or the backup of a loving family (edwin, rikki, sjoerd). i know she does some inadvisable things sometimes, but i don't think she sets out with malicious intent. more, the world lets her down so she fights the world back. and why shouldn't she?! no one else has got her corner. she's an amazing friend to lucas - i don't blame her for what happened between her and edwin. edwin was giving her all these 'come hither' signals, and as far as she could tell he was straight and into girls (specifically her), so what right did lucas have to him? i mean wiet liked edwin from the beginning as well, but i doubt lucas would have turned him down with the bros before hos excuse if he had made himself a little more available?! i like nina - sometimes - i just don't like her with noud as i don't think they've got the magic that even lucas and noud had (man, they really were great together back in the day!) and i don't like when she does the whole spoilt bitch routine when things aren't going exactly to plan. can't she think of anything to entice noud away from the hiking trip?! maybe she could ask rikki for some advice on how to stresslessly distract your man?!
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SF
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Post by SF on May 23, 2011 6:51:10 GMT -5
actually the beeb has always been much more reticent than any other of the other old 'terrestrial' channels, as it is the only publicly funded broadcaster in the UK. so christian and syed have never been as explicit as other non-beeb uk couplings. their most audacious scene was probably that one on the floor of syed and amira's new flat. and eastenders is very good at making you think you've seen more than you actually have. but regardless they don't set out to challenge in that way, they are more likely to face a backlash here than any other soap purely because of the "we're paying for it" attitude. in a way they are comparable to emmerdale, although both shows have a very different demographic. emmerdale has a reputation of being written for the grannies, just in time for teatime, it's very lilting and certainly not designed to shock or challenge. alternatively eastenders is watched by a lot of younger kids as well, (perhaps more so than corrie, and almost as much as HO), but as a show that relies on public funding from all sectors, they still have to take into consideration wide swathes of the public, including all the grannies - because it's that lot who are liable to pick up the phone to ofsted or subscirbe to forums on mumsnet, despite having no idea about the show as a whole. eastenders treads a very fine line between 'entertainment' and 'raising awareness' - i don't know when the latter became what soap had to be about - but eastenders more than any other pays for this. they can never be seen to be gratuitous. and the threat of cuts to funding is VERY real if they fall short. especially now with the beeb already dealing with the government decrees on the arts. in fact the beeb introduced digital channels like BBC3 to compete with the kind of service 4 was offering and all the digital ITV stations. 3 is specifically designed to challenge and provoke and push their broadcasting in a younger more controversial direction. and they make clever use of different viewing platforms as well, so when they did the young eastenders spin-off E20 they made it available on the net. they're very clever. as far as the government backing goes - the BBC much more so than any other channel is completely sensitive to whoever is sat in parliament with the big boy hat on. the tories have a reputation for colourless austerity - i don't doubt that as soon as gordon brown left buckingham palace, changes were being made. before they were announced you know? this has probably been in pipeline for a long, long time. i've noticed a general change in programming since the changeover in government. it's interesting to see, outside of soap, what kind of programmes are getting the funding to be made now. we've had a constant stream of biopics about traditionally 'british' heroines ('enid' enid blyton, 'hattie' hattie james, 'vera' vera lynn), then there's the "big society, big supermarket" (a reality-docu about camerons ideas on community) and "young mums behaving badly" (an undisguised attack on 'benefit mums' and their lifestyle) "john bishop's britain" (a love song to the 'middle man' of everyday british life) etc.. i could go on. it's change on a subtle scale that makes a massive difference.
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SF
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Post by SF on May 21, 2011 17:55:19 GMT -5
i agree camjakefan - i don't think wiet is specifically out to steal noud from nina. i think noud's been the most considerate person toward her in the last few weeks, and she feels close to him. and wiet is starved of attention and very young. and now, all of a sudden she has to compete with nina again, nina who (irrationally?) hates her. wiet may be a little demanding in terms of attention - but i see a lot of insecurity there. and it's amazing considering how bad she must have felt after edwin acted out his 'straight boy' disguise on her - that she managed to get over it so quickly and be the sort of friend to lucas that could suggest a romantic trip like this in the first place. regardless of whether or not she walked into her own trap when it came to edwin and lucas or not. her relationship with lucas is sweet. if i was wiet - i probably wouldn't have gone on holiday with three couples - but then again, these are her friends (minus nina) and why should she be excluded just because she's single?! if nina relaxed around her and told her calmly they didn't want to go hiking at the crack of dawn, like rikki and sjoerd told her to leave, then maybe the holiday could have been more fun for everyone. but then that doesn't make good drama. i still side mostly with wiet though. i don't think she's doing anything *wrong* yet. i think she's lonely, and feels neglected - and it's making her act a bit crazy - but it's not her fault. nina, on the otherhand - like you say camjakefan - has everything, so she could be a little more gracious about it and not talk to wiet like she's an inconvenience.
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SF
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Post by SF on May 21, 2011 8:10:47 GMT -5
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SF
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Post by SF on May 21, 2011 6:31:38 GMT -5
i agree about sjoerd and rikki. the more i see of rikki the more she reminds me of a young bianca. balanced, warm, considerate and gracious. haha - don't know what that says about sjoerd. as for nina and wiet - i would probably agree about siding with nina, because wiet is hanging all over noud. but only if i didn't love the drama. i'm not really invested in nina and noud (sorry to anyone who is), so the idea of wiet coming between them doesn't upset me as much as it would if it were sjoerd and rikki for example - and i kind of think nina and wiet are the perfect bitchy rivals. i can't wait to see the drama.
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SF
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Post by SF on May 20, 2011 16:55:18 GMT -5
yeah i think nina and noud were very deliberately spaced out. i really wonder what's going to happen with wiet there? as for rikki and sjoerd; i love their relationship because they actually talk through their problems and come out the other side.
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SF
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Post by SF on May 20, 2011 12:17:25 GMT -5
I think you're right about Lucas not trying to change Edwin. But I don't see Edwin putting up with that from Lucas. Look how Edwin was with Lucas about the fishing/cottage trip. i don't think janine has AS strong a hand in the direct raising of her children as someone like bianca. she's a wonderful mother and very involved with her children, but she's no earth mother, baking cookies in the kitchen. so, as such, i don't think lucas and nina have that grounding that would make them realise when they're being spoilt and need to tone down their behaviour. but i think janine has instilled in them the values that help them know right from wrong, they're both essentially good kids. i agree with you though, lucas isn't ludo's little princess in the way nina is. as for what you said about edwin, that's interesting because it says something about his character as well. anton says he's easily swayed - and even lucas tends to think of him as quiet and not knowing his own mind. but i don't see edwin that way; the stumbling gentle giant who couldn't hurt a fly, deliberately, if he tried. i agree he's a lot less tolerant than someone like noud (although i think a lot of edwin's qualities that make him attractive to lucas, are qualities he shares with noud), and a lot less patient. and i really think if edwin's pushed, he's not one to sit there quietly and take it. i wonder if this will come up in future SLs?!
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SF
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Post by SF on May 20, 2011 8:12:14 GMT -5
i was trying to think if lucas could be considered comparable in the brat stakes to his sister. and while lucas on the whole seems a bit more tolerant of a wide variety of people; he hasn't tried to change country-boy edwin to fit into the sandars palatial world the way nina tried with noud, there are some instances where their attitudes are comparable. when lucas and sjoerd were going through their 'phase' of being at eachothers throats it was a bit like nina and wiet. there was no way anyone could have told lucas to leave well enough alone. the time with noud at the snack bar, where they had him in head lock certainly springs to mind. maybe its just their family. i mean, i know they've had relatively different upbringings, but they definitely have a different more entitled attitude (they're both a lot more spoilt) than any of the other kids in the group.
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SF
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Post by SF on May 20, 2011 7:36:21 GMT -5
i actually LOVED the idea of flo and deniz when flo first turned up. but even that seems a little strange to me now. something in the last few months has made deniz seem so old and haggard as a character, i can't think of him with someone as young and carefree as flo. the gap between their ages seems like 20 years not five or so. plus despite the franziska/frank slip up - flo's about as hetero as they come now we've got to know him. there are just some characters in soap that you can't ever see being 'turned' (no matter how dramatic and far fetched the circumstances) and he's one of them. i'd be willing to eat my hat if they ever went down that particular road.
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SF
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Post by SF on May 20, 2011 7:30:43 GMT -5
I liked that Edwin apologized to Nina. Can't wait to see the cat hairs fly with Nina and Wiet. I am going to enjoy the new improved Anton. I have to say for an older gentleman I find Joep quite attractive. you're right about joep. (shame about the character he plays). the lady who plays bianca is also very attractive. i also think bianca is, aside from when she's siding with (/being steamrolled by) anton, the ideal soap mother. the bowhuises work very well as a family unit - they are very believable.
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SF
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Post by SF on May 20, 2011 7:24:48 GMT -5
oh and thanks for the recap mark
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Post by SF on May 20, 2011 7:24:27 GMT -5
nina can be such a little bitch sometimes. i know wiets probably giving as good as she gets, but i don't understand how you can be so downright insensitive and spoilt that you act up like that. i know it's for the drama and i'm enjoying it, i just think nina's a right cow every now and then. still love nina and lucas together though. and i'm still feeling the love for her after standing up for her brother against anton when no one else (including his bf) would.
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SF
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Post by SF on May 19, 2011 16:15:06 GMT -5
okay - so i'm not happy with the way lucas and edwin got back together. but a small part of me is still pleased they made up in time for the trip. they're all really sweet piling into that van. it makes me a bit nostalgic for those kind of days. i'll say it again - i LOVE the teens/young adults on this show, as a group. i even love the nina/wiet conflict. nina is her usual princess self again today, i see - but i loved her sticking up for lucas so i'm feeling less mean about her. i just think they work so nicely as a group and there's such an array of characters. i love how they've come together as well.
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