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Post by rosebud on May 3, 2010 21:11:45 GMT -5
I've just realized that I've known people like Olli. They see and create problems in their relationships where no problems truly exist. Not sure why except the desperate need for attention. Olli is obviously desperate for Christian's attention so he does stupid things to get it. Christian gives him that attention by showing jealousy because that's the reaction Olli's stupid actions inspire. But when Olli gets Christian's attention (which is what he really wants in the first place) he pushes Christian further away. It's a sick cycle.
In fairness to Olli, I'm trying to put myself in his shoes. If my significant other truly expressed concern or dislike for a friend/colleague, I would not invite that friend/colleague to my house for breakfast, lunch and dinner. I wouldn't give up the friendship, but I would respect my SO's wishes to the extent possible because, obviously, that relationship is more important. The whole "poor me, Christian doesn't understand me..boo hoo hoo" is getting on my last nerve. Isn't my boyfriend "doesn't understand me" code for I'm getting ready to cheat? What bothered me about the vlog was not Olli's continued whining and complaining but he said something to the affect that Rob gets him and Christian doesn't. This tells me the relationship with Rob as spilled from professional to personal. He's made Rob his friend, even knowing this could be an even bigger deal breaker for Christian. Damn right Christian is pissed and with good reason. This "new" Olli sucks eggs. (Ok, let the crapstorm begin! ;-)
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Post by irinobabe on May 3, 2010 21:48:32 GMT -5
In fairness to Olli, I'm trying to put myself in his shoes. If my significant other truly expressed concern or dislike for a friend/colleague, I would not invite that friend/colleague to my house for breakfast, lunch and dinner. I wouldn't give up the friendship, but I would respect my SO's wishes to the extent possible because, obviously, that relationship is more important. The whole "poor me, Christian doesn't understand me..boo hoo hoo" is getting on my last nerve. Isn't my boyfriend "doesn't understand me" code for I'm getting ready to cheat? What bothered me about the vlog was not Olli's continued whining and complaining but he said something to the affect that Rob gets him and Christian doesn't. This tells me the relationship with Rob as spilled from professional to personal. He's made Rob his friend, even knowing this could be an even bigger deal breaker for Christian. Damn right Christian is pissed and with good reason. This "new" Olli sucks eggs. (Ok, let the crapstorm begin! ;-) I'm so there. It's kinda defending the indefensible. Would I hang out with a boss who was harassing me? Sure he holds power over my future, and I can use him to get ahead, but at what cost? He even ends up naked in OUR apartment. Urgh. I don't want to always take sides over who's right or wrong in this situation; my fear is not buying their love again because of the character assassinations. I fervently hope that their *prays* eventual reconciliation will be a believable rebuilding of their relationship and trust, and not just a quickie patch up.
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bsgnut
Junior Member
Posts: 790
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Post by bsgnut on May 3, 2010 21:49:18 GMT -5
Wow, this episode has really whipped folks into a frenzy. I'm sure the writers would be happy about that! ;D
For the record, I think Olli's more in the wrong here. He is clearly risking the health of his relationship to advance his career. And this notion that Rob "gets" him is such a flimsy excuse for continuing to fall for such patently obvious manipulations.
Sure, Christian acts childish and overreacts to everything, but to say he hasn't been supportive of Olli's work at No Limits is just not true. He's helped out, he's gone to the parties. While Christian hasn't been the perfect boyfriend, he's proven his love over and over again (ahem, like basically ruining his boxing career by kissing Olli in the ring! sigh).
I just can't see how their current "rough patch" can be blamed on Christian's failings. I think it's mainly because Olli wants something so badly he's willing to do anything to get it. Christian's fault is just not knowing how to let go of his hurt and jealousy long enough to get to the real issue. He just needs to ask Olli something like, "What is missing in your life that you need this success so badly?"
And one more thing: doesn't Dusseldorf have other party promoters? Olli, dude, check the Yellow Pages!
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Post by silverkitsune33 on May 4, 2010 0:41:09 GMT -5
I really liked that Olli finally voiced that he thinks Christian finds his party planning dream "stupid and unimportant". Whether Christian means some of his comments to sound as harsh as they do, and whether the root of his annoyance with Olli spending all of his time with No Limits is actually fear that Olli is ditching him for better things like...pretty much everyone else in his life has done, Christian does come off sounding like Olli's dream is "stupid and unimportant" quite a lot. Yes, Christian helps out, and physically attends the parties, but he also makes a lot of biting comments.
Olli's making a lot of bad decisions across the board, but I always look back on the Christian and Wolle storyline. There's a line Christian has where Olli asks if he could find a different promoter and Christian says something along the line of "Yes, because they hang out on every corner."
Rob's a very evil dude who should not dance...like ever, but he also seems to know a LOT of people in the scene Olli wants to be a part of. Rob's the in guy on this. Olli's fending off his advances, but probably realizes that if he wants to continue getting his foot in the door of these places (it's all about who you know 99.9% of the time) he can't piss Rob off...that much. (Didn't Rob originally show up because he was part of some big deal party planning organization?) I think Olli sees Rob as a necessary evil that he can distance himself from just as soon as he's secure in this new career path.
Also, I get a new project that I love, and I want to talk about it. When Olli tells Andi "he gets me" I also hear "He'll let me talk about this work I'm doing that I love that I think Christian will mock".
The lying is a bad idea, but again if Olli sees Rob as a necessary evil, and understands that Christian hates him with every fiber of his being, than he's most likely decided that the less he says about Rob the better.....which in the end is also another bad idea since saying nothing allows Christian's imagination to paint a pretty horrible picture.
The communication lines between them have been shot to hell, and every time there's a chance to fix it they either fall into the same patterns that have kept this drama going for so long or they don't say anything at all.
p.s. I've changed my mind. If Rob will grow a big black mustache and twirl it diabolically while he shimmy-shakes the hilarity of that image could get me to enjoy his dancing.
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Post by Lightness on May 4, 2010 1:32:23 GMT -5
Olli is obviously desperate for Christian's attention so he does stupid things to get it. I would say it's more about recognition. And I don't think Olli creates problems, but Rob does and Olli just reacts.
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Post by ivaniv on May 4, 2010 4:18:28 GMT -5
I find it strange how fatalistic they are about their relationship. They gave up on trying to do anything, they are each in their corner doing nothing. Just when Christian thought Olli would dump him he did some effort to restore the status quo and that was all. Pity Christian backs off each time Olli does something he does not like instead of telling him that he cares and that's why he did this or that despite of not liking everything Olli does. He really looks like a child throwing toys out of the pram And Olli, he flirts with Ropp, let him behave in WG like at home, almost let him put his dick in his hand and all he can do is to tell him "Du, du, du!" And then he starts waterworks when Christian reacts. I do not know what the writers' intentions are, but it looks like they want to keep them fighting till something big happens, I am guessing drugs will be found out at NL party. I'd wish they break up, to find out if and how much they want each other.
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Post by JustaMannsMan on May 4, 2010 4:36:54 GMT -5
I really liked that Olli finally voiced that he thinks Christian finds his party planning dream "stupid and unimportant". Ironically, just as Christian was on the phone to Gregor convincing him not to sell a part of NL out from under Olli. (oh, and as Rob was sitting naked on their couch.) Funny you mention that scene. I was just thinking about it as well since it's the scene where Christian fires Wolle because he can't stand being near the guy, because he insults and assaults his bf, because he tries to force drugs (steroids) on him, because he constantly butts into his personal life, complicating it, hurting it, because he's a shitball of a human being and Christian would rather toss his dream than associate with someone like that. Christian tells Wolle that he'll get another promoter and the line you quote is, I'm pretty sure, uttered by Wolle: "Of course they're standing on every corner in Dusseldorf waving euros." So even though we're told that Wolle is the only game in town, Christian not only threatens to expose his drug (steroid) pushing, he fires him. Unfortunately I don't believe Olli wasn't in that scene. Shame, really. Olli could've learned something about boundaries, priorities, faith, courage and love. ETA: lol, I just looked at the clip and the very next scene is Christian, Olli and Judith in the flat; Christian says he just fired Wolle and Olli says, "But why?"
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thunderkat
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By Scissorknot
Posts: 2,053
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Post by thunderkat on May 4, 2010 4:46:34 GMT -5
Rob uses them as rolling papers. poor olli just can't catch a break
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kish
New Member
True love is not finding someone else, but finding your other half!
Posts: 70
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Post by kish on May 4, 2010 5:24:18 GMT -5
Well I really think that both make mistakes, they are not on the same page. But this time it was Olli turn to be really foolish, ignoring Andis advice and having a little flirty cooking with good old Rob and than hide it from Christian? ? Chris obviously knew what happened, and remember Ollli was the one who talked lately about honesty and no more secrets! Sorry but I am in a very bad mood today, watched a sweet movie with a very disturbing ending and it made all "awwwwwwa" It was about lost opportunites and suddenly it was too late, it just kind of reminded me of our sweeties. Hey thunderkat, next time Rob sneaks around I`ll send him to you! If he strips in front of you, you wouldn`t just stand there! Probably get down on your knees ...(no not that you naughty little girl) and pray and thank me, and then chase him through the flat!
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Post by luckycharm on May 4, 2010 19:52:53 GMT -5
Checking out the comments for these Chrolli videos are always entertaining....but, there are some real FREAKS out there. One suggested that if it was real life, they would like to pour gasoline on Olli and torch him, for what he's doing to Christian. Like, seriously? WTF! Sanity, firm grip on reality, a luxury not afforded to all.
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Post by ivaniv on May 5, 2010 0:51:31 GMT -5
Those people What's wrong with shagging him senseless as a punishment?
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Post by JustaMannsMan on May 5, 2010 2:26:23 GMT -5
What's wrong with shagging him senseless as a punishment? I think that bell's been rung.
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cheerios
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If we could decide who we loved, it would be much simpler, but less magical.
Posts: 2,886
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Post by cheerios on May 5, 2010 2:48:04 GMT -5
I get that Rob is a necessary evil of the job, we have all had to put up with things to get what want at work or keep our jobs. But Olli seems to be blurring the line in the sand on letting Rob get too close. If he truly feels nothing for Rob, then he really can stop spending so much time with him.
A career doesn't make your favorite dinner when you've had a bad day or plan a special gift for your birthday or keep you warm at night. I'm all for Ollie having the career he wants, but not at the expense of who he is. Olli just seems to be changing into something I'm not sure I like, I really don't like the effect Rob has on him.
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Post by ivaniv on May 5, 2010 3:27:18 GMT -5
What's wrong with shagging him senseless as a punishment? I think that bell's been rung. Nothing like a good old tradition The problem with Olli is that Ropp isn't a necessary evil for him. Ropp "gets him", he's doing what he likes and Olli is probably flattered, too, that Ropp is interested in him sexually. It's Christian who is spoiling it all for him.
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thunderkat
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By Scissorknot
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Post by thunderkat on May 5, 2010 7:01:05 GMT -5
yeah...i wouldn't be thankin' ya hon...i'd be discovering a new source of floss.... if his torso is any indication...
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sio127
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Post by sio127 on May 5, 2010 7:20:42 GMT -5
^ are you trying to steal the crown of Miss Smut away from me? What is your "paryt piece" then?
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kes
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Without community, there is no liberation. Audre Lorde
Posts: 1,583
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Post by kes on May 5, 2010 8:10:02 GMT -5
Ivan, you finally made me break down and comment. I love what you have to say.
I have to admit, I have had a hard time faulting Olli or Christian. The writing has seemed the issue for me --
but I'll keep on listening. It's easy to be negative.
Anyway, I thought your point was a good one, Ivan. Also, I like Olli being a little sly . . . but in this case, he's being no such thing. He was such a goody goody on Monday! For me, it was a dissapointment, but from a relationship point-of-view, he proved himself and then some.
Before Monday, I was more on Christian's "side" -- if there are "sides" in such a situation. I liked Olli being in the wrong, because I like Olli to have a bit of chutzbah.
But now, Olli has proven himself to be the goody-goody, do-everything-for-Christian once again.
(EEK!!! I will probably have many folks angry at me!!! But then, I wanted Olli and Rob to . . . Ob on Monday, so this post is an improvement for me. Anyway -- what I really want is an interesting, credible story.)
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digby
New Member
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Post by digby on May 5, 2010 9:02:39 GMT -5
i personally think they are both being idioctic, but i also understand the idiocy. There are serious problems in this relationship right now, and when you don't sit down and TALK about the issues every stupid little thing just become bigger and the wall get a little higher.
Interesting way they are writing this storyline,i think in some ways it's very well written and in other ways more work can be done.
ps. where did all this talk about christian being 'abusive' come from, been watching this show for awhile, and i never ever saw christian being abusive or a 'psychopath'.
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Post by rosebud on May 5, 2010 10:58:41 GMT -5
I have to admit, I have had a hard time faulting Olli or Christian. The writing has seemed the issue for me -- I agree with Kes. The real issue is the writing. When Tom wrote the Chrolli storyline Christian and Olli didn't have any more airtime but their words and actions seemed more weighted. Storylines had a beginning, an arc and closure. I may be overly negative (sorry, Kes) but the current writers don't seem to put as much thought either in what the actors say or what they don't say, which is just as important. The dialog and character portrayals appear spotty and not in an intentional way but rather because of poor writing and/or planning. As fans we then guess at the motivation and intent. Consequently, we begin to imbue both characters with characteristics which, at least recently, are very unflattering. Props to Jo and Thore for their acting. Anyone else and I daresay it would be impossible to watch.
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kes
Full Member
Without community, there is no liberation. Audre Lorde
Posts: 1,583
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Post by kes on May 5, 2010 11:49:54 GMT -5
I have to admit, I have had a hard time faulting Olli or Christian. The writing has seemed the issue for me -- I agree with Kes. The real issue is the writing. When Tom wrote the Chrolli storyline Christian and Olli didn't have any more airtime but their words and actions seemed more weighted. Storylines had a beginning, an arc and closure. I may be overly negative (sorry, Kes) but the current writers don't seem to put as much thought either in what the actors say or what they don't say, which is just as important. The dialog and character portrayals appear spotty and not in an intentional way but rather because of poor writing and/or planning. As fans we then guess at the motivation and intent. Consequently, we begin to imbue both characters with characteristics which, at least recently, are very unflattering. Props to Jo and Thore for their acting. Anyone else and I daresay it would be impossible to watch. Rosebud, I think you put it well. I like Max, but lets face it, Rob has been written to be a one-note villain; Max made him interesting and sexy. So I understand people who feel Olli is being made to look stupid for hanging around with him. Ivan helps me be more positive.
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Post by luckycharm on May 5, 2010 12:53:35 GMT -5
I seriously think that VL (and its writers) has gotten gun-shy with the Chrolli storyline, given that they know of its dedicated followers. This storyline feels like they're trying to walk a tightrope. Rock the boat, but, not dare to really rock it. So, this storyline feels like it's " trying to deliver conflict" but "people, people, it's not really that bad, not real conflict, because we're going to make the characters and their actions seem so stupid with idiotic miscommunications, and blatant character extremes, that all the conflict will seem silly, if/once it's resolved." ^ not a spoiler, that's just how the storyline vibes to me. So, they pulled back on really exploring character psyches, and made it very black and white, with good/evil. It could also be that the new writers just don't have the flair to go that deep, like Chroust did. ....and, if it's due to the gun-shy reason, I can see how they may be that way, given the debacle that are the audience's feedback when ANYTHING resembling NOT fluffy bunnies, peace, love and Chrolli, is thrown their way. ESPECIALLY, when the conflict involves other characters entering the holy grail of CHROLLI! Take for example how they tore apart Jasmin Lord (not just the Rebecca character) on the Chrolli blog. Then, taking Max to task. Commenting on Thore's RL girlfriend, Jana. Or some ridiculous comments like, "I hate this storyline, I want them to stop fighting and be in looooooooveeeeeee, I'll stop watching if this continues!" It's like *facepalm*...it's a soap opera, (1) embrace conflict, (2) separate reality from fiction. Jeez. FFS! Chrolli is no longer a subset of VL, it's taken on epic proportions of its own, as this stand-alone phenomenon.......which is daunting, I'd guess, in figuring out how to maneuver such a phenomenon. Keeping the audience happy, keeping the audience not bored, keeping the ratings up (i.e., drama), but, also, keeping the peace. What's wrong with shagging him senseless as a punishment? +1 Until Olli can't form complete sentences and is left gurgling, "Ro..who? wha...?" ;D
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Post by fillelina on May 5, 2010 13:37:57 GMT -5
I absolutely agree with you luckycharm. I have noticed it too. They are trying to be almost too careful and sometimes when this SL seems to be badly written IMO it is actually due to the fact that they don't want to cross the line and lose all the fans. That's frustrating but at the same time I feel symphaty for the writers... And after all, i haven't got any solution for this "problem". I could be one of those who quit following VL if this mess will get worse...don't know...
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thunderkat
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Post by thunderkat on May 5, 2010 13:45:44 GMT -5
OUCH! i was just BITCHED out on Youtube?!! ok...i thought i'd bring my argument here to people who - oh who am i kidding, we're just as crazy as the commenters on youtube AND we have like no character limits, lol. I merely suggested that, to me, at the beginning of the SL, Olli seemed to basically sacrifice, or perhaps sublimate? his own wishes desires etc in the service of helping Christian. Now, there are many who would argue that what comes across as sublimation, might actually be construed as a very subtle sophisticated manipulation.... which kind of makes me hot for olli, not that it takes much mind you. But, i don't believe it was Chroust's intention to have Olli wielding this subtle manipulative power. That might be all due to Jo's lovely intricate delivery. <--this is a debate for a whole 'nother day At any rate. someone argued that Christian rushed to Olli and told him he'd give up boxing for him b/c Olli was his priority, his bigger dream. I agree with the poster that this was lovely and this is part of the reason we love Christian so, because when he says things like that, he freaking means it. He would've dropped boxing etc in a hot hot second, all Olli would've had to say was do it. What I argued is, that as wonderful a gesture as that is, it's pretty singular, and maybe Olli doesn't operate that way. Maybe olli isn't an all or nothing kind of guy, maybe he's an all and everything kind of guy, and he wants his BF and he wants his NL and he'll do what it takes to make sure he gets BOTH. (of course for me i'm hoping he'll do who it takes ;D). It doesn't mean he loves Christian any less, it just means he makes different gestures, which by the way we've all swooned at plenty. strawberries, picnics, crawling all over the bed w. his shoes to hold his baby's hand. I submit this to you dear TGODT members. Olli is an incrementalist and Christian is a Revolutionist. "Lets make a change, let's do it NOW and lets not look back G-d damnit" Sexuality? CHANGE IT! "I love you coco" SIKE! "God rebecca you're so annoying" JES' PLAYIN, we're bFFFFFFF 2025! <-- that's a long time , hope it's not true. So in this SL, the incremental and revolutionist styles are clashing because Rob is a fellow incrementalist, and Christian can't implement the grand scale reactions fast enough to counteract Rob's machinations. Till of course he kicks his ass... prompting Olli to comfort Rob by the hospital side and ...ok...off to the fanfic thread... Here's what the person wrote to me that prompted all of this. It's dangerous to be in Olli's camp these days... @juliench1 Just exactly what has Olli given up "to help Christian reach his dream" ? Christian's dream was shattered because of him, and he is now shoveling horse manure for a living. Olli was only a waiter at Schneider before he met Christian. Was that "everything" that he had sacrificed for Christian? If it weren't for Christian's brother Gregor agreeing to team up financially with his Aunt Charile, Olli would not now be managing NoLimits. Ingrates seldom deserve respect from other people.Ah, and person who wrote this, if you visit this forum, no harm no foul, it's difficult to adequately respond w/in the confines of the youtube character limit, you know? EDit: PS dressage riding is woooorlds away from shoveling horsey poo. plus Olli loves how it smells on him. No accounting for taste
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Post by luckycharm on May 5, 2010 13:54:20 GMT -5
Why you gotta be hatin' on my response to ya for? That ain't right, boo!
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thunderkat
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Post by thunderkat on May 5, 2010 13:57:57 GMT -5
LOL!! Schatz, have i told you lately how much i adore you? I think what rankled me was the "ingrate" thing... my Olli-pologist sensibilities kickd into high gear at that one...
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