realgal21
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Post by realgal21 on May 3, 2010 15:38:32 GMT -5
Olli not being honest sends wrong signals. Last time it happened, he was hiding the kiss. So what it he hiding now? Is it something he decided for himself is not important or is it something worse? Y do I get the feeling that Olli is attracted to ...(Rob).
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realgal21
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Post by realgal21 on May 3, 2010 15:39:39 GMT -5
At this point i wish they break up and Olli goes to jail.
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Post by luckycharm on May 3, 2010 15:39:53 GMT -5
Olli not being honest sends wrong signals. Last time it happened, he was hiding the kiss. So what it he hiding now? Is it something he decided for himself is not important or is it something worse? YES! And that's exactly what would be running through Christian's mind. Why (WHAT) is Olli hiding? Because he was not afforded the truth before his mind could go wild with speculations of "what ifs". His mind was not put at ease....it was left with even more and holes, because Olli evaded the situation..... At this point i wish they break up and Olli goes to jail. I would never wish jail on anyone who hasn't actually committed the crime. Especially when their biggest fault is ignorance and naivete.
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joanna
Senior Member
Former Verbotene Liebe Champion.
Posts: 8,547
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Post by joanna on May 3, 2010 15:41:11 GMT -5
Caps are now up in the thread opener. Would have had them up A LOT sooner but for the Mediathek acting like a HORRIBLY uncooperative teenager on me! Grrrrrumble... VL 3 MAY 2010 CAPS ALBUM[/url] Rebecca checking out a bit of MANN 'behind'...
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SF
Junior Member
Posts: 759
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Post by SF on May 3, 2010 15:42:24 GMT -5
okay - first thing is. i don't think olli was 'dishonest' with christian and i think if christian had confronted him and got his own view out there, i don't think olli would have lied to his face. and secondly olli is only protecting christian from his own reaction. he almost knows christian better than himself. he knows the heartbreak it will cause both of them COMPLETELY NEEDLESSLY if he pops up with; "just had old rob over for lunch while you were out. funny story.... blah blah naked, ginger rob blah blah your towel, blah blah blah borrowed my clothes" as soon as christian comes through the door. you can't honestly say you don't think christian's reaction would be extreme and disproportionate to what happened however fishy it looked. and why must olli be blamed for staying in a relationship where he feels victimised. why is he such an idiot because christian has near psychopathic bouts of rage?! (and by this i mean the instances where it looks like christian's about to throw a punch). why can't it be that olli gets to keep the man he loves, but the Mann he loves works on his temperament so olli isn't fearful of his reactions and his epic, uncontrollable jealousy. why can't we, for a second, put this firmly on the shoulders of christian? say: he has a problem. that problem is jealousy. he needs to work on it. if christian's jealousy (and i don't mean the natural, don't sleaze all over my bf jealousy, but the extreme drive a knife of guilt through sleazed upon bf's heart for what is essentially NOT his fault jealousy) evaporated tomorrow then where would they be? in a good place as characters and story wise. maybe we could forget this he said, he said - he did, he did nonsense and focus on the actual interesting parts of the story. plus i have no doubt all the dice would fall in christian's favour - when rob's eventually bastardness is revealed (drugs related bastardness) if he cooled it with the crazyeyes for just two seconds. olli can't see past the jealousy, because christian actively LETS that become the focus, it's the playground "do you like him better than me?" and nothing olli does can allay his suspicions. i actually think christian's jealousy is part of the reason (not all) that olli can't see past rob - especially after the vlog tonight - and WHY OH WHY dear god in heaven above, should olli be to blame for christian's being jealous or feeling threatened. he loves christian - not rob - and he has voiced this to both of them. christian has some **SERIOUS** issues. probably to do with abandonment. if he were a real person, i would recommend counseling. and some time out from his relationship to learn to be on his own. learn who he is, and how he feels about that. but olli isn't the villain of the piece and it really puzzles me how he can get painted like that to save christian's backside in an argument, when he's only attempting to save christian from hurt most of the time.
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Post by fillelina on May 3, 2010 15:49:11 GMT -5
It's true that Christian isn't very good at dealing with his emotions. Like you said soapfan, emotional honesty and sincerity is so important! For me it's so easy to identify with Christian here and because I understand him so well it also makes me so mad at him! Christian should show his vulnerability to Olli, and not to Rebecca!
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Post by ivaniv on May 3, 2010 15:49:18 GMT -5
Aaawww
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SF
Junior Member
Posts: 759
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Post by SF on May 3, 2010 15:55:52 GMT -5
my question to the christian supporters out there would be: if olli were to tell rob to stick it, and rob stuck it - far far away from NLs, (probably not before messing things up for olli with all his nasty drugs and bothersome police enquiries), and NLs went down the shitter, olli lost his dream - but hey, he still had christian and they went away on some fancy trip, and christian gave in and proposed - because olli was a good boy and had seen the light - then the ring went on the finger and Mr Mann started providing for his husband who went back to a job he could be trusted at - but was Oh So Happy to be wed and watered... would that be a good ending for this couple?!? would that make anyone happy?! or be true to what they were about in the beginning?!? support through anything!?!? however tough it got?!!? however much the shit hit the fan?!!? and whoever ended up taking a beating for it?!!? as long as they were achieving their hopes and dreams together?!?! a chrolli wedding in any circumstances other than those would make me want to vomit and i would irreparably hate christian. however irrational that is. my dream scenario is that christian gets over what he needs to get over and is there for olli when it all goes tits up with the ginger lord of darkness. that he doesn't pull him up and stomp on him with 'i told you so's' or recriminations - but that he's able to say what olli said to him "none of this matters - because i love you." and if that takes them breaking up so christian can realise how cooshy he had it - then so be it.
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realgal21
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Post by realgal21 on May 3, 2010 15:57:55 GMT -5
I would never wish jail on anyone who hasn't actually committed the crime. Especially when their biggest fault is ignorance and naivete. and utter blind faith in someone everyone else is warning him against MIRIAM CHRISTIAN (boyfriend) AND ANDI(your ages old best friend) I think my bff and bf are definitely more trust worthy than some tom dickwad ropp who just landed on my doorstep yesterday. Why did the writers give Olli a lobotomy? AND CHRISTIAN How old are you 10? Sheesh!!!! Tell Olli you cleared up stuff with Gregor then guilt trip him that is how you get your boyfriend to confess Darling.
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Post by JustaMannsMan on May 3, 2010 16:04:56 GMT -5
my question to the christian supporters out there would be: if olli were to tell rob to stick it, and rob stuck it - far far away from NLs, (probably not before messing things up for olli with all his nasty drugs and bothersome police enquiries), and NLs went down the shitter, olli lost his dream - but hey, he still had christian and they went away on some fancy trip, and christian gave in and proposed - because olli was a good boy and had seen the light - then the ring went on the finger and Mr Mann started providing for his husband who went back to a job he could be trusted at - but was Oh So Happy to be wed and watered... would that be a good ending for this couple?!? No.
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realgal21
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Love! Love!! Love!!!
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Post by realgal21 on May 3, 2010 16:12:35 GMT -5
I'm 1001% sure Rob is straighter than an electric pole.
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realgal21
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Love! Love!! Love!!!
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Post by realgal21 on May 3, 2010 16:19:07 GMT -5
WE are all fighting over fictitious characters. Dudes lets go to NL and write fic to tell us how YOU would fix it.
How Rob should be caught the way you want it. HEY i just thought up a challenge.
Wonder if anyone will take it *runs off to fanfic thread to post challenge*
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SF
Junior Member
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Post by SF on May 3, 2010 16:23:26 GMT -5
i'm not fighting babes. just maintaining a small olli stronghold in amidst the bastion of christian appreciation
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Post by luckycharm on May 3, 2010 16:27:59 GMT -5
okay - first thing is. i don't think olli was 'dishonest' with christian Why do you not think Olli was dishonest (i.e., lie of omission) with Christian when he made sure, even Andi does not let on, what happened in the kitchen? But, are you saying Olli did or didn't lie? As here you say (bolded)....... Why is Christian responsible for whether Olli does or does not lie? ^ That reads as either highly patronizing from Olli's end, for which I already took Christian to task when he patronizes Olli, so I cannot set up a double standard and exempt Olli from his patronizing towards Christian. Or...it reads as Olli being fearful of his boyfriend. Being scared of your boyfriend is not healthy. And, for victims of abuse, I wouldn't necessarily blame (only) them for staying with someone who they fear, but, that would not stop me from telling them to GTFO of the relationship, their boyfriend is bad news, and they're just enabling him. They have a part to play in it - it may not be "blame" but there is an active role on the part of the "victim", which continues the cycle of abuse. The same standard, I'm holding Olli to, when I said: If he is that fearful of Christian's jealousy, he shouldn't be with him (that would be the victim mentality you talk about). If he is frustrated with Christian's jealousy, but knows he did nothing wrong, he should let honesty dictate his actions, come hell or high water, from Christian and his jealousy. And, honestly, I think Olli is the latter, not the former. Meaning he is frustrated with Christian's jealousy, not fearful of it (for himself). Given that, I don't think the "victim" mentality really translates to Olli, as it would to others in a relationship with a boyfriend whose jealousy is one they are fearful of. Christian probably would be, but, that's not a justified reason for Olli evading the truth. Again, unless you feel that there is possibility of harm to you, rationalizing it as "don't want to rock the boat anymore, we have so many issues already, stemming from this" is weak. It creates more conflict - as the truth does indeed set you free - and hence, why we get the delicious drama we get in the SL. Them evading, not facing the truth of the matter(s). Christian, like you pointed out, does so with emotional stuff, Olli does it with other. But, Christian's faults does not justify Olli's faults (it makes it understandable, but it doesn't justify). Or vice versa. Ownership comes from recognizing autonomy of actions. Because he is staying in a relationship where he is victimized. Because he's staying with someone who has such "psyhopathic bouts of rage". Because that's delusional - "Oh, he will change". As much as you want your cake and to eat it too, if you know that the cake is poisoned, letting it sit out for a while isn't going to turn the cake any less poisonous. Because Christian and his faults does not absolve Olli of his faults. Yup. But, if Olli is the trigger, then, him staying around until/if/when Christian fixes the problem [of, as you call it, "fearful psychopathic jealousy] is quite short-sighted and not very rational. PS - I don't think it's to the level of psychopathic jealousy. They would be in another mess where Olli's unwillingness to take ownership for his lack of trust in his boyfriend creates another conflict (may not be jealousy this time, but, another, and another). Yeah, there are a lot of interesting things about the SL, but, character studies are so fascinating to me. The thing with me is, I can do a whole list of Christian's faults, and have in other instances, and this time, my focus was on Olli as a response to your question of "what more could Olli have done." I really don't ship one character over the other - I am pretty easygoing in finding faults in them both, as well as *swoon-worthy* aspects in both. I just don't do the whole, "Christian has a fault, so it's not Olli's fault." (or vice versa) One fault doesn't cancel out the other fault. Olli did wrong. To me, a legit justification to that is not: Oh yeah, but, Christian did wrong too, and it's "more" wrong. It undermines free will and autonomy, and, respect for them as "supposed" adults. I focus on one's fault one time, and next breath, the other's. Or, see the good in both, or the bad in both, and permutations and combinations therein. ;D EDIT: A really interesting thing of note, from the inception of Chrolli, even before they got together, was that, for all of Christian's rage, threat of violence towards Olli, the writers, I believe, consciously, made sure that Christian never raised a hand to Olli. Ever. Even when Olli was not in Christian's romantic radar. He got pulled by the scruff of his jackets, told to leave or he would get a smack on his kisser, even, kissed the raging straight-boy.......but, the writers made sure that Christian never raised a hand to Olli (even if it would make sense at the time, given that it is plausible that a somewhat "homophobic" "straight"-boy [at the time] being confronted by the guy who KISSED his girlfriend, and he is known for his livid jealousy, and then, that same guy dares to KISS HIM, in his boxing club, no less, got a shove backwards...and not a punch thrown to the face). I think it was out of respect for their future relationship as a couple. Christian was never meant to raise a hand to Olli, even from the beginning, no matter how bad the circumstances. The writers made sure of sending that message loud and clear.
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lyra85
Junior Member
Posts: 259
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Post by lyra85 on May 3, 2010 16:31:31 GMT -5
Olli not being honest sends wrong signals. Last time it happened, he was hiding the kiss. So what it he hiding now? Is it something he decided for himself is not important or is it something worse? Y do I get the feeling that Olli is attracted to .... because he is.
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Post by tihkon2 on May 3, 2010 16:35:49 GMT -5
moderator post
Posters may express their opinions on this board. Posters may agree or disagree with those opinions on this board.
Posters will not tell other posters they need to justify their opinions. People are under no obligation to "explain themselves" to other posters on this board.
And in other things that need to be taken care of....
Stop the actual insults about Rob's physique. That happens to be the actor, Max's, physique. He is not fat. People will not call him fat on this board.
People will also stop lecturing other posters. That is the job of your three moderators. Bonobochick, Gaytime, and myself.
If you think a post is out of line, then report it to one of us. Do NOT take it upon yourself to handle it.
The increasing combativeness displayed on this board over the past few months needs to stop.
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chrollifan211
Junior Member
Waiting with arms wide open for Chrolli to come back to me
Posts: 438
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Post by chrollifan211 on May 3, 2010 16:54:35 GMT -5
Whoa when did Christian become a abusive boyfriend? Yes he is jealous but abusive? NO WAY!!!! Olli is only a victim of Rob, not Christian IF anything, Olli needs to fear rob cause I am afraid that Rob will take what he wants even if its against Olli's will!!!
Christian Loves his boyfriend that why he gets so jealous if he didnt give a care about Olli then I would be worried!!!! BUT CHRISTIAN IS NO ABUSER!
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kes
Full Member
Without community, there is no liberation. Audre Lorde
Posts: 1,583
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Post by kes on May 3, 2010 17:01:14 GMT -5
moderator postPosters may express their opinions on this board. Posters may agree or disagree with those opinions on this board.
Posters will not tell other posters they need to justify their opinions. People are under no obligation to "explain themselves" to other posters on this board.And in other things that need to be taken care of....
Stop the actual insults about Rob's physique. That happens to be the actor, Max's, physique. He is not fat. People will not call him fat on this board.People will also stop lecturing other posters. That is the job of your three moderators. Bonobochick, Gaytime, and myself.
If you think a post is out of line, then report it to one of us. Do NOT take it upon yourself to handle it.The increasing combativeness displayed on this board over the past few months needs to stop. Tihkon: You so rock!!! Thanks for being here. Please let me know how I can help. What you say matters to me. What you do here means a lot to a lot of people! (While I'm at it: Thanks Nanna!!! I don't thank you enough!)
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SF
Junior Member
Posts: 759
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Post by SF on May 3, 2010 17:17:30 GMT -5
Whoa when did Christian become a abusive boyfriend? Yes he is jealous but abusive? NO WAY!!!! Olli is only a victim of Rob, not Christian IF anything, Olli needs to fear rob cause I am afraid that Rob will take what he wants even if its against Olli's will!!! Christian Loves his boyfriend that why he gets so jealous if he didnt give a care about Olli then I would be worried!!!! BUT CHRISTIAN IS NO ABUSER! i wouldn't (and didn't) actually accuse him of 'abusing' olli. he has an ability to be jealous in a way that i don't think is healthy - a way that causes him to endure a lot of needless stress - and a way that pushes him towards a violent outburst. he hasn't taken this out on olli yet. but he has on rob (and others). although he has come close to physicality with olli - for example throwing gregor's letter and actually being forced out his seat. and he immediately loses his argument. it's not constructive in his life. the reason i compared it to the wife beater in eastenders is because, he is attempting to exert a control over olli, in who he can see, when, where and how he goes about his business and life - or at least have a knowledge of all these things - that is unnecessary. and actually ends up destroying them. and for olli to back down and agree with christian would be, for me, like sacrificing who he is for the sake of the person he is with. which in my head i can draw parallels with abusive relationships with. it doesn't mean christian is an abuser, or the severity of what is going on here is anything LIKE domestic violence, but the controlling dynamic bred out of insecurity is familiar to me, if no one else. also as far as raising a hand to olli goes, christian has on two occasions. after he found out olli kissed coco - he shoved him more forcefully than i would say adds up to normal physical interactions. and the first time they had sex he grabbed him by the scruff and threatened to smack him in the mouth. whether he would have taken it further on either occasion is irrelevant. it is, for me again, demonstrative of christian's inability to channel his passionate emotions effectively.
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Post by ilikemymann on May 3, 2010 17:18:43 GMT -5
Thank you thikon2 for your post!
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Post by ilikemymann on May 3, 2010 17:36:42 GMT -5
I think Olli really needs to set some proper boundaries with Rob and actually keep them. He needs to spell out that there is to be no touching at all. (He let's Rob continually flirt with him with seductive touches and suggestive comments which have been done in front of Christian and other people. Then he let's Rob hurl insults at Christian.) Another thing - all future business meetings to be conducted somewhere else other than the apartment. Come on - you know your BF is jealous, why would you allow this to happen and not expect more fuel added to the fire.
As for Christian being childish today - I do not think he was. Believe me, in the past he has acted extremely childish, but today - no. He discovered that Olli was hiding something again and that it most likely had to do with Rob. I think he did the best thing - leave without a confrontation. I think that shows more maturity and he can tell Olli about his talk with Gregor when he has calmed down.
As for a hairy guy, I like it if it is neatly trimmed. Rob - get out your shaver! But, sorry Rob - for me it would still be Christian all the way!!!
Anyways - those are my thoughts for today.
P.S. I just wish that the day will come soon where they talk and Olli realizes that Christian is actually behind him and is there to protect him.
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Post by luckycharm on May 3, 2010 17:45:19 GMT -5
also as far as raising a hand to olli goes, christian has on two occasions. after he found out olli kissed coco - he shoved him more forcefully than i would say adds up to normal physical interactions. I agree that physical violence or threat using one's physical being/environment, be it object, including shoving, etc. , is not an answer, in romantic relationship or otherwise...but, for me, it makes a lot more impact, when it is in a romantic relationship than, say between strangers, or acquaitences. That added dimension of implied trust of one's physical body at the hands of one's lover. So, it doesn't strike me as that "bad" Christian shoving Olli in the lockerroom, as they were two guys, at that time. Yeah, that could be interpreted as over the line. Christian, I agree, does have an inability to channel his passionate emotions effectively. Olli sometimes gets like that too. I remember him buying the ticket for Ibiza, and he kept poking Christian's chest on the bed, going "Du, du, du" ( or something), then throwing stuff around the room (including Erwin ), and throwing the ticket at Christian. I know it was meant to be comical though, and not as something "serious" as we may be interpreting it. And, with Weidner the food critic, and even the morning after his all-night out with Rob, Olli grabbed Christian by the arm, to either make him stay, or face him, etc. In an ideal situation, for me, all those above would be no-no, from Christian or Olli. They both have words at their disposal, use them! Oh, I also don't agree with Coco slapping Christian. Often females get a free pass towards raising a hand to men, but, that's not right, either.
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thunderkat
Full Member
By Scissorknot
Posts: 2,053
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Post by thunderkat on May 3, 2010 18:30:11 GMT -5
Am I the only one who WANTS to see Olli in a chastity belt? wooof. Christian might have the key...but Rob's an excellent lock pick god soapfan i know you don't mean to do it but you are saying ALL the right things. ;D HEE! ;D ;D But baby, truth evasion and non confrontation is Olli's bag unless it is INCREDIBLY SUPER SUPER critical. He ran away from dusseldorf after the drug fiasco. He ran away to Ibiza when things first got a little Rocky with Chrissie. I think Olli would just prefer to not deal than incur Christian's ire. the problem is that chrissie knows him too well by now to let him avoid anything. Tihkon...is it weird that i get all hot and bothered when you moderate? almost as good at doing the trick as rob Danke!
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Post by chellebell on May 3, 2010 19:27:15 GMT -5
just cant get enough of Christian's dance in the snow! <3 2 dances in 1 episode, hes on a roll thunderkat - OH GODD.. i love your avatar.. hahaha
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Post by husky14620 on May 3, 2010 19:41:29 GMT -5
I'd love to comment on this ep but a. i'm kind of oddly mesmerized by the almost day glow quality of max's nips b. i haven't seen it yet. c. That couch has seen worse. It used to be gregor's apartment. ROTF LMAO TRDMF
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