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Post by tubedout on Oct 13, 2009 17:52:24 GMT -5
Thanks for the latest scenes hach, and smash for helping out!! I'll get to work on subtitling them for YouTube as soon as I can. Unfortunately, the upload site teradepot is down at the moment, so I can't download the clips. But it usually comes back up within an hour or so, so I'll have them soon enough. And I agree - I had gotten the feeling that the actor playing Fonsi was a bit awkward in kissing a guy. It's too bad we won't get to see how this couple could be on screen after he loosened up a bit.
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hach
Junior Member
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Post by hach on Oct 14, 2009 2:03:06 GMT -5
I think the kiss in 1x59 was OK. Well, let's say the most recent kiss wasn't as bad as the ones before. Maybe the actor who played Fonsi didn't know what he signed up for. ;D I wouldn't be surprised if Fonsi originally wasn't meant to be bi and start a romantic relationship with Alberto in the end. I suppose the authors made that decision only after it had become clear there wouldn't be a second season. I can't download the clips. But it usually comes back up within an hour or so, so I'll have them soon enough. Sorry for the delay. Yesterday evening before I posted the translations, TeraDepot worked fine but I see that it's still down now. Here is an alternative download in case TD is still down later: www.megaupload.com/?d=A2YDBNF6www.megaupload.com/?d=AVUD9M86www.megaupload.com/?d=B3BW565Jwww.megaupload.com/?d=BBXSPH70
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maya
Full Member
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Post by maya on Oct 14, 2009 2:55:04 GMT -5
thank you hach
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Post by tubedout on Oct 14, 2009 15:09:12 GMT -5
Thanks, hach, for posting the mirrors! Usually the site doesn't go down for long. Don't know why it decided to get temperamental on me. It must know we're fast approaching the end, and decided to make us wait it out a bit longer! I've posted the clip to YouTube, and will post the link now in the clips thread.
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HQ75
Full Member
Do I contradict myself? Very well then I contradict myself, (I am large, I contain multitudes.)
Posts: 4,200
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Post by HQ75 on Oct 14, 2009 19:36:08 GMT -5
Why would a director allow an actor's personal feelings about kissing effect the character he's playing? That's just sloppy direction. I'm sure they could easily find 5 other male actors his age to play the part who would be comfortable kissing a boy. Lots of male actors have no problem with it and it's a soap, not Shakespeare so it's not like they need to have that particular actor or the part requires special skills. I can't imagine an actor being allowed to be that unprofessional on any tv show and not get fired. I never bought that excuse with Hollyoaks either. Actors are payed to play the part as written and I assume whatever we actually see on screen is whatever the director intended because unlike a play, they can do more than one take and re-shoot scenes if they're bad. I know folks blame stuff on actors but at the end of the day, whatever get's to be the final shot is whatever the director wanted so CLEARLY this director didn't think it was necessary for the kisses between Alberto and Fonsi to be passionate or believable and that makes me sad. I think it wouldn't have been so obvious if I hadn't had to watch Alberto kiss Nina or watch Fonsi kiss Nina and Lourdes so there was actually a lot to compare it to and the difference felt glaring for me Not that it is the end of the world but I just think get annoyed when shows commit only to the "idea" of gay characters and gay love stories but not to the the visual representation on screen. And with this story, we've seen the boys already have such a comfortable relationship sleeping together (which in my mind is a very intimate thing) so it should have been a natural progression to just add more romance and passion to their relationship. Okay, I'll stop complaining.
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Post by tubedout on Oct 14, 2009 23:21:21 GMT -5
Well, a director really can't "allow" or "disallow" an actor anything. At the end of the day, the actor is the one controlling his portrayal. If a director could control an actor like that, we wouldn't see so many terrible performances on so many shows, lol. What is "written" is that Fonsi kisses Alberto. That's what the actor did. If he didn't put enough feeling into it, that is the actor's choice.
Not to mention, this is a soap opera. It's not a movie or even a primetime show. It does not have the luxury of multiple takes and reshoots as they try to get something just right. I know for American soaps, they say they rarely get a single retake. I can't imagine the budget for these telenovelas is much higher.
Now could the show fire the actor and hire someone more willing? Sure. That's the exact scandal we saw go down on Y&R. But it was still a big deal, and caused a lot of controvery. Not to mention, again, it was an American soap. Foreign soaps seem far less likely to simply recast. And definitely not in the midst of a season.
Nor does it really seem necessary. The actor simply looks a bit awkward with it. I don't begrudge him that any more than a begrude a new actor taking over an established role taking a few weeks to "find his sea legs," so to speak. It's a new and - based on Fonsi's history on the show - unexpected twist to the character that has the actor doing something entirely new. I've seen many an awkward kiss between straight pairings on shows, when the actors were uncomfortable. I'm okay with the fact that sometimes actors just need a little bit of time to settle in, and that time is often played out on our screens since there is so little prep time for soaps.
I just wish we got to see this couple after the actor had loosened up a bit more.
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Post by ivaniv on Oct 14, 2009 23:29:43 GMT -5
If you take the first scene in this latest video, there was a lot of touching in a comforting way and there was nothing awkward about it. And those kisses over the table at the end were much better. I think they would have gotten there if they had gotten a chance.
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HQ75
Full Member
Do I contradict myself? Very well then I contradict myself, (I am large, I contain multitudes.)
Posts: 4,200
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Post by HQ75 on Oct 15, 2009 12:31:24 GMT -5
On US Soaps, when a director or show runner doesn't like the way an actor is performing they get fired, quickly. The controversy on Y&R wasn't about the actor being fired, it was about the actor walking of the set when he had a contract. Completely different situation having nothing to do with his performance of the part. In fact because soaps have such high volumes of actors coming an going in the US you could have the same part played by 3 different actors in the same year (if the actors don't have a contract). Obviously things must be different in Europe and I don't claim to have knowledge of how tv works there but I've lived in NYC my whole life and every acting friend I've had has worked on a soap and yes, they don't do a lot of retakes but because they have such a directl relationship to the audience (and audience feedback) they are a lot less likely to keep an actor if he sucks. or isn't believable in a role (particularly on a new show or in a new part). Obvious what does or doesn't suck is a matter of taste so maybe that's really where we differ. It's entirely possible that the show runners think the actor playing Fonsi's kisses with Alberto are super hot on fire sexy but I think it's more likely that the writers and directors keep their romance more tame on purpose. Actors have almost no say in how a scene is directed or what's written in the script and even their delivery of a line will be tweaked if it's wrong for the scene. Every soap actor will tell you that (in the US). They have the "freedom" to do the scene as they understand it but if they do it and it sucks and the director THINKS that it sucks, he or she is not going to just be like "Oh, well, it sucks but if that's how you want to do it, go right ahead, you're the actor". No way does that ever happen. If a character looks uncomfortable with a kiss then the CHARACTER is uncomfortable with the kiss (we're not looking at the actor in that moment) and when Fonsi looks uncomfortable with a kiss that's what I see which makes his declaration of love feel a bit empty in relation. I simply don't ascribe character attributes to actors so when people say "Oh, well the actor playing Fonsi is nervous so that's why the kisses are timid" it feels to me like a cop out. How he does or doesn't feel is irrelevant to playing the part as far as I'm concerned and if he personal feelings about a particular line or a scene are bleeding through so that the viewers can tell that he's nervous then he's doing his character a disservice. I think the actor who plays Fonsi is fine, great facial expressions, great delivery (particularly in scenes where he's annoyed with Alberto). Good comedic timing, etc. I simply don't buy the assumptions about why his romantic scenes with Alberto are so drastically different from the scenes the he had with women. I think it has very little to do with acting choices and more to do with the showrunners fear of "offending" the viewers since they are the onces in control. How hard it is to kiss someone and look like you mean it if you're an actor? It's like 101 of acting and as someone else said, you have to kiss every kind of person in acting school or when you're running through shows. It can't be that difficult if you really are an actor. Also, have we scene them waking up in bed together even once since they've been a couple? Almost every other episode had them walking up or going to bed together when they were just sharing a bed, now that they are acting "doing it", we haven't even seen them in a bedroom together. Which is what makes think it's about catering to the fear of homophobic backlash and not just personal actors choices. The only reason I'm talking about it so much is because with Lourdes it was just so glaring. She kissed him 3 times, passionately before he stopped her and those were "real" kisses and the juxtaposition between those and the kiss with Alberto moments later was just like a flashing neon sign. Had that not happened, I probably would have just keep my gob shut
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Post by tubedout on Oct 15, 2009 16:17:14 GMT -5
I think where we're disagreeing is that you feel that because actors SHOULD do something, then they must. When that's not the case. End of the day, the directors cannot get inside the actors bodies and MAKE them portray something in a certain way. Absolutely, they could fire them. But that's generally an extreme, and does not happen at the first failure to perform perfectly. And, again, recasts are not NEARLY as common on foreign soaps as they are US.
As a case in point, one of my all time favorite on-screen couples is Veronica and Logan on Veronica Mars. They had a sweet first kiss. But in the DVD commentary and interviews, the producers and director revealed that the script called for him to grab her roughly, and for it to be a very passionate kiss. But that the two actors were just too brother/sisterly with each other, and could not get comfortable enough to play it that way. How it ultimately played out was totally acceptable with the fans. Certainly, the actors weren't going to get fired because of it. But it wasn't what the director wanted.
I totally agree that Fonsi's kisses with Alberto are extremely more tepid than those with women. Everyone has pretty much echoed that sentiment. But I also agree with Ivan that he was already loosening up in the last episode, and likely would have been fine with just a bit more time, just like Craig on Hollyoaks was. I'm hard pressed to believe that it was the show's intent to keep the kisses so tame, given the content previously has all been so risque. They've had no problem with 3somes, no problem with showing the guys in bed together, no problem with blatant sexual inuendoes, and no problem with copious physical affection between the guys (unlike, say, ATWT, which clearly avoids all kinds of physical intimacy). I think that complaining about no bedroom scenes since the sex seems rather premature, when we've had about 3 episodes. It's not like every single episode had them in the bedroom before. Despite not being in the bedroom, they have been in their underwear together on the couch, which is just as suggestive. Like most soap couples, their scenes typically take place outside the bedroom, because that is where the story happens. It doesn't make sense that they would just randomly decide passionate kissing is just too much. Especially, again, when it already appeared like the kissing was improving.
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Post by Duskysoda on Oct 15, 2009 22:29:24 GMT -5
The actor is hired to play a part and Fonsi performed horribly as an actor in the kiss we are discussing. The Director should have demanded another take. It was pathetic. It is THE job of the Director to get inside his actor. They very clearly CAN "make" an actor perform the way they want. It is their perogative.
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Post by tubedout on Oct 16, 2009 1:52:19 GMT -5
Just an FYI - I'm going out of town for the weekend, so if hach uploads another (the final! *tear*) part in the next two days, I won't be able to get it up on YouTube until Sunday night/Monday.
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Post by ivaniv on Oct 16, 2009 2:58:15 GMT -5
BTW do you have the subtitles as text files (srt, sub)? I'd love to have them to play them with hach's AVI files.
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Post by tubedout on Oct 18, 2009 19:17:43 GMT -5
Sorry it took me so long to respond, Ivan. I was away for the weekend.
Yes, I do have srt files. But the problem is, I combine the separate videos that hach uploads into one video for each episode. It's just easier for me to get it all subtitled and uploaded to YouTube if I can do it all at once. So the srt files are for that single video, and not for hach's separate files. I could definitely upload them, but you would have to join the separate files together for it to be of any use to you.
I have gotten a few messages on YouTube from people looking for subtitled downloads, so I may hard-sub the clips later. But right now, it's not on the schedule, lol. Maybe after we finish with this last episode. Eek! I can't believe it's almost over.
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Post by ivaniv on Oct 18, 2009 19:37:45 GMT -5
Joining the files is no problem for me
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Post by tubedout on Oct 18, 2009 19:51:50 GMT -5
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Post by ivaniv on Oct 18, 2009 20:10:34 GMT -5
Thanks
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Post by tubedout on Oct 20, 2009 16:53:44 GMT -5
Just to let everyone know - I am going out of town again this weekend, Thursday through Monday, so if the final (sob!) clip is posted then, I won't be able to subtitle until next week. Sorry for all this inconvenience.
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maya
Full Member
Posts: 2,137
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Post by maya on Oct 21, 2009 7:52:03 GMT -5
don't worry, we will wait for you Have a great time!
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Post by tubedout on Oct 27, 2009 11:30:49 GMT -5
I'm back! So whenever hach gets the final episode clipped and translated, I'm ready to subtitle.
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Post by jblaze08 on Oct 28, 2009 3:11:07 GMT -5
welcome back!!! Hope u had a great wknd..
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HQ75
Full Member
Do I contradict myself? Very well then I contradict myself, (I am large, I contain multitudes.)
Posts: 4,200
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Post by HQ75 on Nov 5, 2009 16:39:23 GMT -5
So is the show over now? I now it's no longer on tv but I thought were were a few more episodes left to sub? Just curious. Thanks all.
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Post by ivaniv on Nov 5, 2009 17:01:04 GMT -5
One episode is left to be subtitled, not much happened there IIRC, they were wrapping up the stories.
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Post by heterophobia on Nov 25, 2009 3:31:18 GMT -5
One episode is left to be subtitled, not much happened there IIRC, they were wrapping up the stories. So.... ......what happen to Fonsi and Alberto at the end?? Did Fonsi leave Alberto and run into a girl? or they became a lovely couple?? I cant find any clips about the end on Youtube. Could anyone provide the link if possible. I really appreicated of your kind help. Thanks ya..
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Post by ivaniv on Nov 28, 2009 3:01:44 GMT -5
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Post by heterophobia on Nov 28, 2009 10:09:14 GMT -5
Muchas Gracias.. .....IvanIV Looking forward to seeing next new episode of UGDS. I'll keep my eye on it....
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