kes
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Without community, there is no liberation. Audre Lorde
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Post by kes on Aug 8, 2009 13:37:24 GMT -5
this is so true - for me at least. and i've been thinking about it recently. i don't out and out hate the olli character but certainly there are things about him that bug me, and i don't cut as much slack as i do with the christian character. it's fascinating to me because it's something i've been thinking about a lot recently and over a long period of time. these are entirely my own opinions and i don't imagine anyone else to share them: i don't know why, but it's when olli is more noticeably 'camp' (god how i hate that word!) than christian, or takes an overly nurturing (sometimes to the point of controlling) role that i get the little pinches of annoyance. and to be annoyed by those aspects of his character is ridiculous: 1) because i myself have been mercilessly teased at junior school for being 'camp' (or obviously gay, whatever you want to call it ) 2) because there is nothing that he's doing should annoy me. but it does. and when i notice this in myself i notice it in other sections of the gay community. as i've got older i've noticed a lot of bitching goes on about certain different types of gay men and i've been to places in london, gay bars - where there is a stigma attached to walking in with a queen on your arm. i mean i'm not saying olli annoys me because he's more overt with his sexuality than christian. maybe, there's a little part of me that's still sort of stuck in that tiresome cycle of self-hate and the character of olli just touches a nerve for some reason. maybe it's just me. i can't even get out what i'm saying because i'm really uneasy about voicing my opinion on this. i love olli almost all the time, and he is full of wonderful virtues and flaws that make him very realistic, i'm just very aware that i prefer the christian character - and how ever much i'm ashamed to admit the reasons why, i do know them. thought i'd share. because what rhiannon pointed out was interesting because i noticed myself always siding with christian and i was wondering why before she said it. (plus, i think christian's more stereotypically 'heterosexual' qualities certainly highlight olli's... differences - oh and i don't like the way olli's wardrobe is going but that's an issue i could harp on about for hours so i won't (although C&O used to dress similarly and now, well - they don't ;D)).. hmmm... worried that i look like a homophobic, self hating gay now... also, please don't think i'm accusing anyone of having the same twisted opinions on olli as me.. i am honestly just interested because i am sort of annoying myself now... Wow, what a thoughtful response. I am not a gay man, and cannot begin to address what you speak of here. I think you are right that we have a stigma about people who live on the edges of society. When has a realy stone-butch dyke ever been featured on the L-Word? I know that I struggle with the "butch" part of myself. :)However, maybe we can be light about this. Maybe people who like Christian just like Christian because he is a good guy and they identify with him more? As Rhia said, in the end, we don't want to over-read each other's words, or our own. If we love Olli, we love Olli. If we tend to love Olli, we'll defend him against criticism. If we love Christian, we will do the same. We are humans. I hope this is helpful! There is so richness in what you have to say, I know I am not addressing it well enough.
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IvVi
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Post by IvVi on Aug 8, 2009 13:52:30 GMT -5
but I don't see what is wrong for being more Olli-centric or Christian-centric in the first place? isn't that in real life the same way? I like one person more or understand more her/his way to react in certain situations. That doesn't instantly mean I disapprove other person's behavior. reading here all the pros and contras just makes it all more colorful and gives more depth, because brings out things I would never thought about myself in certain ways. I really hope that no one feels that can't share his/hers thoughts here because of disapproval of others. different opinions and vivid discussions (and love, but that's another subject) makes life interesting, so why give it up?.
I'm not sure that Christian is kicked out of school. Didn't they talk about other classes or changing his major shortly after the hospital? But why he hasn't changed it, not sure. Maybe he just waits when he gets better and he can continue what he started.
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Post by rhiannonhero on Aug 8, 2009 14:00:09 GMT -5
First, johnny89, I wanted to thank you for sharing such personal insights about your reaction to the characters. I think it is really amazing the way fictional characters can make us really think about our own lives in ways both superficial and deep. This sounds like a deep thought process, and I imagine it is hard to express. I find that I have a hard time expressing myself with regards to what the characters mean to me, too. Well, I say that based on how often I'm misunderstood when expressing myself with regards to these characters, so clearly I must be having a hard time with the expression of my thoughts and feelings. I don't think you're a homophobic, self-hating gay man because of what you said. I think that you're functioning in a society where certain things like that are triggers for many people, straight and gay alike. (I actually just had a conversation this morning with my sister-in-law about these kinds of issues with regards to my nephew and his effeminate behaviors, but that is definitely something that is PM material...maybe. : ) ) Second, kes, I've always found you to be an Olli-positive person on this board, and not because you think he can do no wrong, but because you clearly think he can do a lot of wrong, and seem to genuinely like him anyway. So, yeah, my comments weren't really intended for you. Nor were they intended for any specific individual. Lastly, if it isn't clear from all that I wrote that this statement, "Even better, not to find one character WRONG and the other RIGHT, but just see them as two people struggling in a relationship?", is exactly what I was trying to say from the very beginning of my comments, then I clearly cannot express myself in a way that other people understand, and I should just shut up. And, so I will. *zips it*
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kes
Full Member
Without community, there is no liberation. Audre Lorde
Posts: 1,583
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Post by kes on Aug 8, 2009 15:14:41 GMT -5
Rhia: What wonderful comments! You bring so much to these boards! Thank you!!!!
I love this community.
Forgive my communication. Before I posted, I though "Hmm, maybe I should get rid of that first paragraph." However, I thought it illustated how we can all see things differently.
Anyway, today I'm going to write my fanfic in which Gregor believes Olli to be the ultimate evil. I believe he will be set straight today (well, not straight, exactly) . . .
What fun.
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Post by jj8899 on Aug 8, 2009 16:36:22 GMT -5
rhiannon, kes... first off: call me johnny! wow, everyone is so much more intelligent and clear thinking than i am - i just bash out all the mess in my head straight onto the keyboard. i do want to say that i agree about the two people struggling in a relationship.. i don't hate olli because i like christian, or find one wrong because the other is right. they aren't direct opposites of eachother and i wouldn't compare them as such, (although i stand by the idea that certain behaviour in christian highlights differing behaviour in his boyfriend and vice versa) they deserve to be judged as individual parts of a functioning couple. however when i noticed that i preferred christian and the reasons why gradually became clear to me, i was a little taken aback. actually it was more about realising that i didn't always like olli actually! rhiannon i like what you said about triggers because it was very much like that, i had absolutely no problems with either of them when i started watching this show, i wasn't that deeply involved to begin with. but then as i became a regular viewer the aspects of olli's behaviour that had been just little idiosyncrasies of his really began to bug me and stick out. i mean i know the christian character can be stubborn and *whispers* a little bit dim at times (emotionally), it's almost as if i know that but it doesn't matter and doesn't annoy me about him. and it's the nature of these prejudices that are interesting to me with regards to the olli character, rather than the fact i prefer one or the other. partly because they are so ingrained within me i can't imagine ever not being annoyed by some of the ways olli and others like him (probably myself included) behave in certain situations. partly because these are obviously learnt prejudices as i cannot have inherently been like this, and it's only got stronger the more deeply i associate myself with 'the gay community'.. oh dear i rabbited on forever.. i don't even know what i mean, i just am interested in other people's opinions really. my own confuse and bore me in equal measure! EDIT: ashamed to admit i LOVED the l word, and although they don't have out and out dykes, kate moennig does something to me which no other woman to date has ever managed to do!! she's gorgeous and i love her voice... and tasha was quite dykey, minus the fact that she wasn't in real life.. i'm such a hypocrite, i don't like out and out gays on tv but then i get mad if the out and out gays on my tv aren't played by out and out gays in real life!! i'm joking of course - i'm pleased to see everything, including the heterosexual 'norm' being embraced by the tv industry!! wouldn't want to be accused of discrimination, positive or otherwise!! ;D
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kes
Full Member
Without community, there is no liberation. Audre Lorde
Posts: 1,583
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Post by kes on Aug 8, 2009 17:35:27 GMT -5
Hi Johnny! Wow -- I love what you and Rhia say about "triggers." Certain things bug us about people, and others . . . I am a "need for relationship space" person, so I tend to get a bit annoyed when Olli wants Christian to give more emotionally (i.e. back in December). Olli was not at all wrong, it's just that I get defensive in those situations, so I got defensive with Olli. Right now, I get defensive in a different way. I don't want Olli to have to be perfect. I want him to have the same freedom to be selfish sometimes that we all do. And I want Christian to able to be human in his way: sulky and noncommunicative. I want them both to be able to f---k up. Perhaps, then, I need to let the writers f--k up, too, once in a while. I can get so critical! Anyway, I want Tanja to be able to be loved even after murdering people, too, so I'm wierd. (Don't serial killers deserve our love?) About the L word: I've just started to watch it on Netflix. I love it (though season two is . . . ) I find the women totally hot, I just get annoyed when, for example, they go to the Dinah Shore golf thing and all the women look like Hollywood models. I find it 1. just stupidly insulting to the audience (like even het men can't stand watching normal women at all) 2. not-reflective of the lesbian or straight female community and 3. ultimately a turn-off. I love femme women, but butch women have a special place in my heart. (Ahh, Shane!) I suppose I would wish that all kinds of people, straight and gay, could be honored more. Anyway, end of speeches. Thanks so much for your sharing and caring.
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Post by ivaniv on Aug 9, 2009 1:46:32 GMT -5
I haven't read everything here, I do not like reading and writing long essays, so I may repeat something already said. I think this episode was about Christian trying to take back a control of his life. It was taken away from him when he got the diagnosis, but it was taken away not by Olli, but by the illness. To get it back, again, not from Olli, he had to do it all by himself. He didn't like Olli trying to give him an illusion of achieving something himself when it was a lie. He didn't like a help from Olli and Rebecca, it had to be all his doing. That's why he was so happy when he managed to get the job all by himself. Now it's a question if it's a failure for him due to what kind of a job it was or if he finally lets people to help him.
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Post by lolaruns on Aug 9, 2009 8:25:21 GMT -5
IMO, I think the current story is skewed towards Christian's POV. We don't see much of Olli's plight (or even whether there is much of it). The boxing story was also skewed towards Christian's POV but there Olli was portrayed as clearly helpful, supporting self-negating. In this story Olli is often shown as counter productive from Christian's POV aka from the story itself since it is from Christian's POV.
IF we had a story about Olli, from Olli's POV and Christian was being unhelpful, then Christian's negative and unhelpful characteristics would also stick out more and there would be more people calling for him to change them.
But recently Olli hasn't really had much chance to show much "soul" on the show and as a result comes off as a less likable or identifyable character. Just like I'm sure that Olli probably provoked the most sympathy and fan ardour at the very beginning of the story when he was pining for Christian, when he got to show pain and weakness, when the story was told from his POV.
IMO the percentages of people arguing for one or the other would most likely flip the other way if a story was actually told from Olli's POV and about Olli and Christian was the unhelpful one.
By that logic, control freak issues would imply insecurity which would mean a rather unhealthy situation in their relationship. Which means that if their relationship was actually happier (a stituation where Olli can actually feel secure and fullfilled) he wouldn't be so much of a control freak (respectively if Olli was in a relationship with somebody who made him feel more secure he would be happier and it would show itself by him feeling less desire to be controlling). It would suggest that control freak Olli is a sympton of things not being very happy or secure somewhere underneath.
I'm not saying that that is how the Ollian relationship really is. It's just where things lead me when I follow up the connections. Or why I have such a hard time where if I would to take this as face value, would have to see it as a symptom of a rather unhappy relationship aka would have a hard time ever seeing it as cute/adorable/something that should be kept.
I agree that things change and get more casual over time. Or that you present yourself in a certain way (like intentionally or unintentionally being on your best behavior) but grow more lax overtime. But I would still say that there are issues where it really either borders on deceptions or unacceptable behavior gets displayed later ("He/she seemed nice at first but then turned out to be an abuser/total control freak/rampantly jealous/a secret gambler"). And I would also say that special considerations have to be made for things that made you fall in love with somebody. Many things change, but wouldn't the thing that made you fall in love with somebody chaning/being untrue/being just the opposite be enough to really change somebody's feelings.
Again not really saying or even thinking that that is the case with Ollian. Just saying why it's not the kind of thing that I would necessarily brush off as not being a big deal.
SPOILER It just seems to me that whatever their communication problems are, it seems fairly obvious to me that more control from Olli is not the answer. I don't think that it's a coincidence that where Christian apparently finds his happiness in the current situation is away from Olli with the horses, in the end one of the oldest visual symbols for freedom. Seems to me that Christian hence very much has a need for it. Of course there are moments which one can see as Christian liking cues and support from Olli. But to me there are at least as many signs of Christian yearning for more freedom even as he loves Olli and has no intention to be completely free of him (aka dissolve the relationship). It seems to me that Christian very definitely still wants his areas of freedom and solitude even though he has every intention of coming home to Olli at the end of the day. (like going off into the woods, not calling, then coming home and telling Olli that he is happy that there is somebody who will wait for him. Sounds to me that that is what Christian wants. Rather than him wanting somebody who controlls him every moment and is on his case all the time)
And even Olli seems to know that he has to grant Christian that even as this behavior frustrates him. Logically the middle ground should be somewhere in the middle. Christian shouldn't have to have to give up his alone time freedom, his own processing time, but never sharing his feelings at the end of it for example wouldn't be healthy either.
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Post by husky14620 on Aug 9, 2009 9:31:38 GMT -5
Ivan, I agree with your view that right now, everything Chris does/has is spiraling out of his control. As a result, his life is falling apart and he NEEDS to feel in control, at least of some part of it. Olli doesn't see this on his own, as this is really the first time Chris has been in such a depressing situation while they've known each other. And with Olli overwhelmed at NoLimits, due to Gregor's irresponsibility about the business, Olli really doesn't seem to have the opportunity to recognize this about Chris right now. And Olli could be connecting some of his feelings about Gregor's irresponsibility to NL with Chris's irresponsibility about taking care of his illness as first priority. The brother's are very similar in many respects...
The best thing would be if Chris and Olli could have some together alone time, like the day they went to the beach. But unlike that day, for Chris to assert himself a little again, and make Olli listen, as well as listen to Olli at the same time. I think some of what is currently going on is each misunderstanding the other's motivation, and the other's problems right now. (It could make for a great Judith story, the two boys barely speaking to each other, she acting as a buffer to get them talking, able to rephrase what one says so the other understands it, sort of acting as an interpreter until they catch on and start speaking each other's language again.)
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Post by lolaruns on Aug 9, 2009 10:47:14 GMT -5
Personally, I find smothering behavior deeply unattractive and disrespectful regardless of whether it happens from woman to man (Lydia to Sebastian), man to woman (Leo to Sarah) or woman to woman (though not affection smothering, Carla's pretty bossy attitude in the recent episode with Stella I found really unattractive.) It's actually an interesting situation. Stella imo both with Charlie and now Carla has ended up in relationships where she gets a bit taken for a ride and lets herself be jerked around. First of course Charlie with her hot and cold gay problems. And now with Carla the relationship started out with Carla first sort of overruling/overwhelming Stella with the idea that they should keep the relationship secret (and IMO Stella going along with it even though she wasn't too sure because she is too nice for her own good in situations like that), then Carla coming to Stella for some make out time and just sexy-smothering Stella's objections that they could be seen by the rest of the staff. (actually to me that reminded me a lot of the discussions about the strategies Olli uses or supposedly uses to overrule Christian). But even though this is actually Stella's second relationship where she ends up in a situation like that (something that actually can't be said for Christian) I never got the impression that Stella actually wants to be treated badly/enjoys being treated badly. Yes, she does fall for these women, but I still don't get the impression that she wants anything other than an equal relationship with them, even though she is willing to stick things out. Respectively that IMO Stella will be happiest in a relationship that is equal/not skewed against her. (and for example, not every woman who has a thing for bad boys actually has an underlying need to be treated badly by them; in fact for many it's just the opposite) ( this is the Stella/Carla episode I mean, particularly their interaction in the piano room and in the very last scene) (for the record, I neither hate Lydia, nor Leo, nor Olli in this scenario, I just think that it's a very poor and unsupportable status quo for a relationship. A similar scenario to me btw is the infamous "I'm leaving you/pushing you away for your own good" (for example frequently practised by Leo in regards to Sarah). Even if sometimes more or less good reasons are behind it, to me it still smacks of something disrespectful of the person in question, because it basically overrules their feelings and suggests that they don't get to make their own decisions or trust their own feelings (and it would be the same if Gregor pulled the same on Luise, treating her like a child). And I still think that the kind of temporary insanity Sarah and Sebastian went through is still more healthy than to categorically suppressing those feelings. Sometimes people have to go through their dark valley in order to come out. Sure their loved ones should be there for them, but it's better to support them rather than trying to obsessively keep them from the valley completely. )
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scarpien
Junior Member
Olli & Christian Forever
Posts: 491
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Post by scarpien on Aug 10, 2009 9:29:46 GMT -5
I can't see Olli as the controlling type because of his tone when he talked to Stella. It was absolutely sweet but also unsure. He just heard Christian saying, that he can't be in the flatshare the whole day and of course he wants to help. It's not like he said "Stella, Christian is getting on my nerves, give him a job". I think as much as Olli is acting like a "Mutti" here, as much is Christian acting a little bit like a kid. (and deep down he's happy Olli is doing this) I think there's at least a balance. There were times when Olli seemed like a child (NL story) and Christian was the more "grown up" who was sweet with Olli. Or when Olli was sick his "go to bed", also a little bit "Mutti". I'm sure if it was the other way around Christian would also do a lot to help Olli. So, it's the situation and not their own flaws. This is Christians problem right now and he would react like that no matter what people do. Like Olli would freak when he was in Christians situation. I think that's why many people wished for a story about Olli, to lose that pattern. Just look at Christian/Coco. When Coco lost her job, Christian was also trying to give her at least something, offering her to work at NL and she was all "Don't you get it?". Christian was mad then but that's exactly what Olli is doing better in this case. IMO Olli is perfectly doing it. He's giving Christian space for his problems, he isn't making a drama out of his freakouts, because he doesn't want to give Christian more problems. And even if it's too much for Christian right now, it's not easier for Olli. (Olli needed a person like that in his drug carrier phase and it would've been a lot easier for him) The last scene was absolutely sweet when Olli was glad about Christians little success. He would do anything to make Christian smile in this situation. And that he has this "My Chrissie baby" way isn't new. When Christian had problems he was always acting that way (His way of protecting where Christian is protecting in the "macho way") I'm glad Christian can "take that", it also shows his love for Olli, that he let's him to be that way I think. It's hard for him to let people close in this phase. He knows he can rely on Olli and I think I even liked one thing very much in this episode, the talking. It wasn't the big relationship talk but I liked it. I would find a lot creepier if Olli wouldn't act like he does now. His stress was shown in NL, he has to do a lot to bring it all under control. IMO Christian is even a little bit more controlling with his freakouts. Most of the times, he's making the decisions (when to make up etc. letting Olli in the air with fights for one night and so on). Right now Christian is making the rules, when they can be fluffy, when he's grumpy etc. But that's also normal. When he's coming to NL, Olli has to be there for him (being surprised Olli isn't noticing him) I truly enjoyed reading this. Alot of forethought went into its creation. Thanks!
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scarpien
Junior Member
Olli & Christian Forever
Posts: 491
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Post by scarpien on Aug 10, 2009 10:06:05 GMT -5
I agree that things change and get more casual over time. Or that you present yourself in a certain way (like intentionally or unintentionally being on your best behavior) but grow more lax overtime. But I would still say that there are issues where it really either borders on deceptions or unacceptable behavior gets displayed later ("He/she seemed nice at first but then turned out to be an abuser/total control freak/rampantly jealous/a secret gambler"). And I would also say that special considerations have to be made for things that made you fall in love with somebody. Many things change, but wouldn't the thing that made you fall in love with somebody chaning/being untrue/being just the opposite be enough to really change somebody's feelings. Again not really saying or even thinking that that is the case with Ollian. Just saying why it's not the kind of thing that I would necessarily brush off as not being a big deal." I totally agree with your analysis. But to illustrate the difference between genuinely changing over time and just being plain deceptive, consider Olivia pretending to like David just to get to the true object of her affection [Sebastian] AND simultaneously get under Lydia's skin. David will soon come to know the true meaning of "My!! How you've changed!" I don't think Olli's feelings for Christian fall anywhere near that category. The only thing I can accuse Olli of is being over-zealous where Christian is concerned; Christian's happiness is Olli's top-priority and he sometimes goes overboard in his quest to ensure it. I've watched the Tolli episodes and Olli never acted this way with Tom, so that says alot. We even get to see some semblance of a "normal" Olli when he interacts with Olivia, but once Christian is factored into the equation we see, what some would call these "unusual" traits in Olli come to the surface. Now, having said that, it was interesting that in the last episode the VL writers addressed that very topic when Christian waltzed into NL totally unnoticed by Olli. Christian's facial expression said it all!! So, I think it's safe to say that if Olli were to dial back the intensity of his love for Christian (by even a few degrees), Christian would be the FIRST one to question why. That's what he loves about and have come to expect from Olli. And like I said before, a love like that is a double-edged sword.
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Post by brownsugar on Aug 10, 2009 21:51:40 GMT -5
I think Olli maybe overly zealous right now, but that's out of his love for Christian. What I see is Olli not being fully aware of just how bad Christian is feeling. And I think this situation has occurred because both these men have not sat down and really talked about the true impact of Christian's diagnoses. It doesn't help that time is an issue because Olli is so wrapped up in NL, which seems to be constantly busy and leaving him no time to really SEE and UNDERSTAND the current situation with Christian. What Olli is seeing is his boyfriend hanging out in NL, over eating (notice the reference to having to roll him out the flat) and seeing Christian loosing interest in making himself presentable each day. All signs of someone spiraling into a depression. I think Olli does believe that once Christian gets a job things will bounce back nicely. But for Christian, it's not just about getting a new job, it's having to give up what he's heart desired...boxing.
I don't fault either of them, since I don't see either Olli or Christian as being wrong, but just reacting to the situation as they naturally would. The way Christian is dealing with his sickness is what I would expect based on how we know what type of a personality Christian exhibits. And Olli is acting the way we would expect based on Olli's past behavior.
I think the VL writers are doing a terrific job because so much of this mirrors real life. I actually know a couple who were in a similar situation with the husband suffering heart troubles, and you saw the bitterness, depression and feelings of uselessness play out so very similar to what I see with Christian. It's pretty amazing how well this storyline is being written, especially for a SOAP where you would expect over-the-top reactions and behaviors. Instead we are seeing quite a layered storyline which is subtle with depth and realism.
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Post by brownsugar on Aug 10, 2009 22:36:27 GMT -5
I agree that things change and get more casual over time. Or that you present yourself in a certain way (like intentionally or unintentionally being on your best behavior) but grow more lax overtime. But I would still say that there are issues where it really either borders on deceptions or unacceptable behavior gets displayed later ("He/she seemed nice at first but then turned out to be an abuser/total control freak/rampantly jealous/a secret gambler"). And I would also say that special considerations have to be made for things that made you fall in love with somebody. Many things change, but wouldn't the thing that made you fall in love with somebody chaning/being untrue/being just the opposite be enough to really change somebody's feelings. Again not really saying or even thinking that that is the case with Ollian. Just saying why it's not the kind of thing that I would necessarily brush off as not being a big deal." I totally agree with your analysis. But to illustrate the difference between genuinely changing over time and just being plain deceptive, consider Olivia pretending to like David just to get to the true object of her affection [Sebastian] AND simultaneously get under Lydia's skin. David will soon come to know the true meaning of "My!! How you've changed!" I don't think Olli's feelings for Christian fall anywhere near that category. The only thing I can accuse Olli of is being over-zealous where Christian is concerned; Christian's happiness is Olli's top-priority and he sometimes goes overboard in his quest to ensure it. I've watched the Tolli episodes and Olli never acted this way with Tom, so that says alot. We even get to see some semblance of a "normal" Olli when he interacts with Olivia, but once Christian is factored into the equation we see, what some would call these "unusual" traits in Olli come to the surface. Now, having said that, it was interesting that in the last episode the VL writers addressed that very topic when Christian waltzed into NL totally unnoticed by Olli. Christian's facial expression said it all!! So, I think it's safe to say that if Olli were to dial back the intensity of his love for Christian (by even a few degrees), Christian would be the FIRST one to question why. That's what he loves about and have come to expect from Olli. And like I said before, a love like that is a double-edged sword. scarpien...the part highlighted in bold is an excellent point you made, which I don't think has been pointed out. It was an instant reaction from Christian when Olli didn't notice him sitting down or coming over to the bar. He acted hurt as if to say...how dare Olli not notice my presence. There is a definite neediness from Christian which Olli feeds to him like a drug. It's just the way the relationship between them has been run. It's only now with Christian's illness, which has resulted in feelings of uselessness but not wanting to feel useless, that Olli's attention feels more smothering. Still, as we saw in the bar scene, Christian needs Olli to live and breath him. I mean, look at Christian when he was looking at the watch in the newspaper (a scene I happened to love) he was acting like a little kid in a candy store wanting his mom to buy him something, only in this instance it's his boyfriend he wants to treat him. I really loved the sweetness of that scene because you got a glimpse into the balance of the relationship. Also it played out very natural.
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scarpien
Junior Member
Olli & Christian Forever
Posts: 491
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Post by scarpien on Aug 11, 2009 13:33:07 GMT -5
scarpien...the part highlighted in bold is an excellent point you made, which I don't think has been pointed out. It was an instant reaction from Christian when Olli didn't notice him sitting down or coming over to the bar. He acted hurt as if to say...how dare Olli not notice my presence. There is a definite neediness from Christian which Olli feeds to him like a drug. It's just the way the relationship between them has been run. It's only now with Christian's illness, which has resulted in feelings of uselessness but not wanting to feel useless, that Olli's attention feels more smothering. Still, as we saw in the bar scene, Christian needs Olli to live and breath him. I mean, look at Christian when he was looking at the watch in the newspaper (a scene I happened to love) he was acting like a little kid in a candy store wanting his mom to buy him something, only in this instance it's his boyfriend he wants to treat him. I really loved the sweetness of that scene because you got a glimpse into the balance of the relationship. Also it played out very natural. Thanks Brownsugar: I was so surprised when Christian reacted that way. I always knew he fed off of Olli's attention but I didn't realize how much until that scene. He tried to brush it off with sarcasm but Olli sensed that he was upset and apologized for not noticing him. Christian's dependence on Olli totally scare's him--because it's so new to him--so he tries to downplay it whenever he can but as it's been shown many times, he's come to rely on Olli more than he'd like to admit, whereas Olli isn't afraid to acknowledge how much he needs Christian.
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Post by jollian7221 on Aug 28, 2009 15:36:33 GMT -5
I luv the scene when christian's sitting down talking about the watch and olli's just stroking his neck. The little things like a look, touch etc that jo and thore add in are wonderful x
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