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Post by overtherainbow on Jul 19, 2016 15:06:29 GMT -5
I cried my eyes out from tonight's episode It was so sad and heartbreaking Harry Reid is a fantastic actor and really should be nominated for an award, or else there is something seriously wrong with the world. The way he acted when Phil called Paul his "friend", wow, that was some riveting stuff. I've never seen something quite like it on tv, let alone a soap. This is why EastEnders will continue to be my favorite soap.
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Post by Zathras on Jul 19, 2016 19:55:23 GMT -5
Oh, man. I'm waiting with bated breath for Tuesday's scenes to be posted, though I'm not entirely sure I want to watch. This episode just felt odd. They really could have played up the tension with the Mitchells worrying about Ben and then thinking he was dead, but it mostly just fell totally flat. That said, the reveal of Paul at the very end was quite sad, and Ian and Phil's relief was really well done. I guess I'm not really sure what I expected, but I also didn't really "feel" it. I didn't get the sense of tension. Maybe it's because I already knew what was going to happen. Not sure. I hate that they killed off Paul. Not just because he's yet another dead gay man on a soap. I hate that the show couldn't be arsed to do a decent job of showing us the circumstances. Sadly, even in death Paul's role is still about everyone else, not about himself. Just like his entire tenure on EE. I didn't think the show ever bothered to really develop Paul on his own; he was always supporting. If it was a gay bashing, then as painful as it might be I think it would have been worth showing, if only to show (as you say) that it still happens. Whatever the circumstances, I don't expect we'll get a flashback, either. Sounds like we'll get Ben's reaction. I also will hate to see Les & Pam's reactions. RIP Paul Coker
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Post by kevvoi on Jul 20, 2016 6:37:17 GMT -5
New clip courtesy of Winter Hymn:
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Post by kevvoi on Jul 20, 2016 6:51:41 GMT -5
And another new clip courtesy of Winter Hymn:
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Post by Zathras on Jul 20, 2016 19:46:16 GMT -5
Okay, felt it today. Bravo to Harry Reid for Ben's gut-wrenching reaction. Even as Ben said, incredulously, "my friend," I thought he would lunge at Phil for saying that shit, and sure enough he did. Phil gets no leeway from me for that. Phil couldn't even say to that detective that Paul was Ben's boyfriend. It was really hard to watch Pam's denial. I don't blame her one bit for not wanting to believe it, but it was still rough. It finally started sinking in at the end. From what I gather they had to bury a son once, now they have to bury a grandson. It sounds like maybe it was "just" a mugging, and not necessarily a gay bashing. Not sure what I think about that as the mechanism for Paul's exit.
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Post by atlanticslide on Jul 20, 2016 23:33:30 GMT -5
It seems like there's a fair bit of speculation about what exactly happened, and the fact that they didn't actually show what happened leads me to believe that we don't yet know the real story - I read an article today suggesting that Ben's story doesn't quite add up and speculating what may have really happened (homophobic attack? Max seeking revenge on Phil by hurting/killing Ben and accidentally killing Paul instead? Ben panicking over his sexuality again and attacking Paul?) Out of those options, homophobic attack seems the most likely to me, and I've been wondering if maybe Ben is hiding something, like maybe he panicked and left Paul behind and then felt guilty about it, and so lied about them getting separated? Just wildly speculating here, but it does seem like there's more to this story that's yet to be revealed.
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Post by overtherainbow on Jul 21, 2016 17:06:23 GMT -5
Unfortunately Ben revealed in today's episode that it was a gay bashing.
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Post by kevvoi on Jul 21, 2016 17:09:24 GMT -5
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Post by Zathras on Jul 21, 2016 20:47:08 GMT -5
Thanks for the clip. Hmm. So it was a gay-bashing. I guess I'm going to have to wait and see how this plays out before I decide whether I think it was a "worthy" exit for Paul. This could be good, or really bad. (BTW, I didn't see any spoilers in that DS article.)
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Post by atlanticslide on Jul 21, 2016 22:47:10 GMT -5
Sad episode tonight, but quite good. I'm glad they didn't drag out the reveal of what really happened, though I wonder how long it might be before Ben tells anyone else the truth, if he ever does. The scene in the pub was awful - Pam's anger at Ben was horrible and sad, but it's also hard not to feel for her. I'm curious about how this will continue to play out, especially considering how horrible and tragic it is for Ben to have just managed to feel comfortable with himself and being open about his relationship.
On another note, looks like Ben stole Aaron Dingle's black hoody!
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Post by justinate on Jul 22, 2016 2:26:21 GMT -5
As we had feared - Ben and Paul were the victims of a gay bashing that was fatal to Paul. I am not sure why the show decided to play this storyline. While homophobic attacks are not as rare as we'd like in modern Britain, I can't recall any recent case that resulted in death. I can't help wondering if the attack would have ended differently if the show hadn't decided to let Jonny Labey go. I don't really believe it was for the drama of the misidentified body because they resolved it too quickly, failing to milk Ben's "death" for all it was worth. Phil, who is dying of cirrhosis unless he gets a liver transplant, having to face the death of his only son, just weeks after the death of his beloved mother. Kathy returned from the dead, despite the possible legal repercussions, because she wanted to have a relationship with her sons - instead facing the death of yet another child. Ian, who has effectively lost two children, now losing his little brother that he helped raise. Louise, who always had a fraught relationship with her brother, losing her only sibling. Jay, who has lost everything on a false accusation, losing one of the few people who'd stood by him.
But they didn't really play any of that - except for a brief mention of Lucy by Ian. Kathy didn't even mention that this would be the second child she'd lost (after her daughter). Heck, Kathy was told the news offscreen. What's the point? There are some solid actors in that group, they should have played out the beats to let them showcase their talent and get some mileage out of the misidentification.
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Post by kevvoi on Jul 22, 2016 7:27:34 GMT -5
New clip courtesy of Winter Hymn:
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Post by kevvoi on Jul 22, 2016 8:23:20 GMT -5
And the second part courtesy of Winter Hymn:
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Post by Zathras on Jul 22, 2016 20:55:46 GMT -5
Ouch. I try to give grieving people some leeway to lash out, and not hold it against them. Even considering that, Pam's public outburst was really low. I suppose there's a bit of truth to her feeling that Ben was ultimately bad for Paul, but Paul being murdered isn't in any way Ben's fault. My expectation is that eventually Ben will tell the police the truth, for whatever good it might do. I liked seeing Jay able to support Ben like that. And Phil keeping his beak shut. I wonder if Ben told Jay what he told Johnny. I also find it interesting that Johnny is supporting Ben more prominently than I might have expected. They were never very close and haven't interacted much in a long time. So why now? I actually would have expected to see Ben confide in Jay first. As we had feared - Ben and Paul were the victims of a gay bashing that was fatal to Paul. I am not sure why the show decided to play this storyline. While homophobic attacks are not as rare as we'd like in modern Britain, I can't recall any recent case that resulted in death. I can't help wondering if the attack would have ended differently if the show hadn't decided to let Jonny Labey go. I don't really believe it was for the drama of the misidentified body because they resolved it too quickly, failing to milk Ben's "death" for all it was worth. Phil, who is dying of cirrhosis unless he gets a liver transplant, having to face the death of his only son, just weeks after the death of his beloved mother. Kathy returned from the dead, despite the possible legal repercussions, because she wanted to have a relationship with her sons - instead facing the death of yet another child. Ian, who has effectively lost two children, now losing his little brother that he helped raise. Louise, who always had a fraught relationship with her brother, losing her only sibling. Jay, who has lost everything on a false accusation, losing one of the few people who'd stood by him. But they didn't really play any of that - except for a brief mention of Lucy by Ian. Kathy didn't even mention that this would be the second child she'd lost (after her daughter). Heck, Kathy was told the news offscreen. What's the point? There are some solid actors in that group, they should have played out the beats to let them showcase their talent and get some mileage out of the misidentification. On the one hand I totally agree. EE squandered a huge opportunity to explore all of those angles. On the other hand, if Ben had stayed away for too long it wouldn't have been believable for him to just show up. And it would be hard to play all of those angles in a short period of time. They could maybe have made Ben comatose for a time in a different hospital, but then the reactions would have been more about fear over Ben's whereabouts rather than his death. Didn't Jonny Labey quit? (As opposed to the show letting him go?)
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Post by atlanticslide on Jul 23, 2016 0:33:00 GMT -5
I also find it interesting that Johnny is supporting Ben more prominently than I might have expected. They were never very close and haven't interacted much in a long time. So why now? I actually would have expected to see Ben confide in Jay first. I've seen it suggested that they're setting the stage for a Johnny/Ben romance sometime down the road, hence all of the Johnny/Ben scenes in the last few episodes. I'm not sure how I feel about that possibility, mostly because I don't care much for Johnny, but we'll see how it all plays out. For an in-universe explanation, I can see how Johnny might feel particularly sensitive to the situation as a gay man since it was a homophobic attack, and Johnny and Ben did have a (kind of volatile) flirtation going before Johnny left to go traveling, so I can also see him feeling some attachment, for lack of a better word, to Ben since he saw first hand how much Ben struggled with his sexuality. I'm not sure whether Johny Labey quit or was let go, but I believe he was recently cast in a play. Not sure if he took the part because he was let go from EE or quit EE to take the part, though.
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Post by kevvoi on Jul 23, 2016 6:55:44 GMT -5
New clip courtesy of Winter Hymn:
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Post by kevvoi on Jul 26, 2016 11:15:49 GMT -5
New clip courtesy of Winter Hymn:
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Post by Zathras on Jul 26, 2016 19:53:10 GMT -5
It's nice that Ben has someone to lean on. He surely has some feelings about the attack that only Johnny can relate to (as a gay man). Phil is useless (what a surprise ). Kathy is off doing something else, I guess. I suppose his sister is trying. I wish Jay was around, but at least Johnny was able to pull him in a bit. I've also been wondering whether they might be setting up for a romance between the two later, all things considered. Johnny suddenly being in Ben's orbit does make me wonder. Of course it's still far too soon. When Johnny's mom was listening at the door I was wondering what was going through her head. I wonder if she really understood why Johnny wants to support Ben. At any rate, I have a feeling that Ben might have some Mitchell "justice" in mind rather than the police route. He only really went back to the police because of Johnny's prodding. I actually was a bit surprised that the driver didn't recognize Ben outside the police station. Lastly, I have a feeling that Les' attempt to bury the Christine persona is going to fail miserably ... sooner or later. He's under a lot of stress and needs to grieve. Pam doesn't seem to be giving him much support.
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Post by kevvoi on Jul 27, 2016 8:00:49 GMT -5
New clip courtesy of Winter Hymn:
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Post by Zathras on Jul 27, 2016 19:58:52 GMT -5
Ah, yes, Mitchell "justice". I doubt he'll end up going through with it, but I guess we'll see. Those conversations with Phil were so telling, and kind of sad. Phil is still utterly useless at supporting Ben. Always has been. And when Ben needs it the most, Phil was still dismissive of Ben's relationship with Paul - implying he could just "get over it." Part of me was kind of hoping that Phil might actually use the word "boyfriend" in reference to Paul, but I didn't really expect it. Sadly I don't expect Phil will ever say that word. I've long thought that Ben (and the others) should cut Phil out of his life; they would be better off without him. Ben is grieving and I get him being upset. He was still pretty harsh on Johnny and Kathy. He did have a point about Johnny, though: Johnny has been trying awfully hard to help him. I think Ben was wrong about the reason, but I still can't quite put my finger on it.
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Post by kevvoi on Jul 29, 2016 6:54:12 GMT -5
New clip courtesy of Winter Hymn:
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Post by atlanticslide on Jul 29, 2016 20:29:38 GMT -5
I find Ben and Phil's relationship kind of fascinating, even if Phil is a terrible, terrible father, so I really enjoyed Thursday's episode - I loved the awkwardness of Phil trying to keep his son from going totally off the rails but still unable to say the things that Ben needs from him. The whole episode seemed very in character for Ben, who has such a volatile personality, going from simmering with rage to depressed to exploding with rage. I'm really interested to see how this continues to play out, but I'd love to see more interaction between Ben and Jay or Ben and the Cokers.
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dmagiclight
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OPEN YOUR MIND AND ANY THING IS CAN HAPPEN
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Post by dmagiclight on Jul 31, 2016 16:48:31 GMT -5
I hope there not going to have Johnny falling for Ben
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Post by Zathras on Jul 31, 2016 19:48:08 GMT -5
Finally got to watch Thursday's clip. Up until the last minute, I was starting to be impressed that Phil did as well as he did supporting Ben in his grief. As awkward as he was, it was still nice to see. Their conversation was remarkably frank, considering their relationship. After the last minute, I'm not quite sure what to think. I guess I'm inclined to believe that he was being honest about trying to build bridges with Ben, though with Phil it's sometimes hard to tell. And then he decided it was a good idea to tell Ben that he had deceived him. Phil was uncharacteristically open, so I don't blame Ben getting angry, thinking Phil manipulated him. One step forward, one step back. Sigh.
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Post by kevvoi on Aug 2, 2016 5:49:53 GMT -5
New clip courtesy of Winter Hymn:
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