|
Post by daleeryohm on Jan 1, 2014 22:07:57 GMT -5
The unsuspecting couple is Robbie and Phoebe.
|
|
|
Post by candyflossuk on Jan 2, 2014 10:13:46 GMT -5
Thanks for the link kevvoi . There are a few things I find slightly strange about this article however. This quote for example: I find it difficult to believe that at 16, Finn doesn't know what rape is. He obviously doesn't think it's consensual since we've been told so many times that he's getting off on the feeling of having power over JP and humiliating him. So what exactly does he think he's doing if not rape? If they are going to go down the unpleasant route that Finn thinks that because JP is gay anyway then what he does to him isn't really a big deal, again that doesn't really add up because where does the sense of power, control and humiliation over JP come into it if he doesn't think what he's done is anything too bad? Then he says: Which not only is completely awful in terms of isn't rape and bullying enough misery to pile on JP without having it continue as a long term thing post-rape but also contradicts with hat Keith says here: If Finn feels that he doesn't have to go after JP again then why is the bullying continuing? And finally, is it really appropriate for Keith to say this: Your character raping someone is hardly a 'brilliant journey'. I hope this isn't another hint that some attempt at redeeming Finn will be made. The only 'journey' Finn should be taking is straight to prison!
|
|
dio
New Member
Posts: 124
|
Post by dio on Jan 2, 2014 11:40:55 GMT -5
imo, peeps read too much into spoilers + occurrences on the show and see them as seeds. And then when thy don't 'blossom' peeps get their nose out of joint and cry 'bad writing!!'. Like Father Kieron - he was born to die, in a matter of speaking, yet peeps still don't get that. i really don't think Ste/JP will happen, and it's totally obvious they won't, too. Romantic couples NEVER happen like that. The viewers' 'thirst' is never quenched that quickly/easily. JP/Ste ALREADY KISSED, so you can basically write off any romantical journey, unless HO is going to go the 2 losers get together = striking GOLD ala Todd&Blair on OLTL or Chandler&Monica on Friends, but that is a very specific and 'nothing to lose, so why not?' approach, and I don't think JP/Ste are anywhere near that point as far as interesting stuff they can get up to. JP/Ste getting together is waaaaaay down the road stuff for if Craig or Brendan ever return, imo. my money is on either Joe or Robbie being JP's next love interest. The writing is there for either of them to be closet-cases - Joe as über-butch straight guy, Robbie as the closeted gay teen that acts out, etc. I'd love it to be Ziggy, doe... i really do believe one of the Roscoe boys will be gay. Honestly, you don't bring 5 guys on a show that's got a large gay-friendly fanbase and none of them be gay. Also, a long-ass time ago I read a statistic that 1 in 5 guys are gay (LOL), or something. That got me and my mates to begin debating which member of NSYNC and BSB would come out as gay? This was before Lance Bass came out... hmm... reads like PJ Brennan and BK's interviews where they waxed on about how long for HO Doug was and all the plans they had for him, and Ste being a 'tent-pole' character... LOL R.I.P, Finn. I guess.
|
|
|
Post by ceecee on Jan 2, 2014 17:42:28 GMT -5
I'm going to guess he doesn't think it's rape because he does it with an object, like a broom, or something.
|
|
|
Post by daleeryohm on Jan 2, 2014 22:09:21 GMT -5
imo, peeps read too much into spoilers + occurrences on the show and see them as seeds. And then when thy don't 'blossom' peeps get their nose out of joint and cry 'bad writing!!'. Like Father Kieron - he was born to die, in a matter of speaking, yet peeps still don't get that. i really don't think Ste/JP will happen, and it's totally obvious they won't, too. Romantic couples NEVER happen like that. The viewers' 'thirst' is never quenched that quickly/easily. I don't think it matters that they've already kissed. It's true that the OMG aspect of Ste and JP is already gone now with that kiss, but it seems clear that they're headed the typical way of a romance because really why else would they continue this different interaction now of them not hating each other? And they're clearly going out of their way to shoehorn Ste into the storyline, and there's no other reason why they would that I can tell. It's just a waiting game now. And it won't even be that long, in fact, they're probably sure to rush it because they don't seem interested in dealing with the aftermath of the rape in much of a serious way (as in would JP even be in any condition for a love life and a sex life for a long time?), and they're keeping Ste a floater character right now without a storyline. And the longer they wait to 'go there' with those 2, the more and more of a stretch it becomes because they won't be able to not move those characters on and keep them in the moment for it to happen for weeks to months. There's no reason Ste shouldn't meet someone else in the meantime otherwise, and JP would have enough to deal with, and there's no great dynamic to Ste and JP anyway for them to want to flesh out. It's convenient for extra drama and they can't afford to wait. The next round of spoilers will probably see Ste, Danny and JP all going even more steps in that direction.
|
|
|
Post by atlanticslide on Jan 2, 2014 22:55:42 GMT -5
i really don't think Ste/JP will happen, and it's totally obvious they won't, too. Romantic couples NEVER happen like that. The viewers' 'thirst' is never quenched that quickly/easily. JP/Ste ALREADY KISSED, so you can basically write off any romantical journey, unless HO is going to go the 2 losers get together = striking GOLD ala Todd&Blair on OLTL or Chandler&Monica on Friends, but that is a very specific and 'nothing to lose, so why not?' approach, and I don't think JP/Ste are anywhere near that point as far as interesting stuff they can get up to. JP/Ste getting together is waaaaaay down the road stuff for if Craig or Brendan ever return, imo. I'm not really seeing your reasoning here. Fictional couples don't always get together in the same way, so I'm not sure why you think that they never get together "like that" (though I'm not actually sure what you mean by "like that") - some are thrown together quickly and without much build up, some inch towards one another over a long period, some get together, break up for a period, get back together, etc. Characters aren't always brought in with a set storyline in mind - actors and characters are frequently chem-tested with one another to see who works well and looks good with who and who would make an interesting pair, and sometimes characters are on shows together for years before they're paired off (just look at how long Nancy and Darren were around each other, sharing a family, before they got together). I'm not saying that Ste and John Paul are definitely going to have a romantic relationship, or that they definitely will anytime soon, but I don't really see any reason to believe that they definitely won't just because they've kissed once. If both actors stick around for the indefinite future, there are any number of things that could be done with the characters. Soap characters tend to bounce around from relationship to relationship, and it's harder to do that with gay characters (which is why it happens more often that new gay characters are introduced specifically for romance purposes, like Spike or Kieron or Noah), but considering how many gay characters Hollyoaks has currently and has had over the last few years (as opposed to many other soaps that tend to only have two or three at a time) it's a bit easier to have them jump from relationship to relationship just like the straight characters. So even if Ste and JP don't get together in the next few months, there's still no reason (in my opinion) to assume that they never, ever will anytime down the road. Unfortunately, I think there's still a commonly held belief that men can't be raped, that rape is something that only happens to women, so maybe that's what his thinking is, that he assaulted John Paul but couldn't have raped him because John Paul's a man.
|
|
dio
New Member
Posts: 124
|
Post by dio on Jan 2, 2014 23:58:03 GMT -5
I don't think it matters that they've already kissed. It's true that the OMG aspect of Ste and JP is already gone now with that kiss, but it seems clear that they're headed the typical way of a romance because really why else would they continue this different interaction now of them not hating each other? And they're clearly going out of their way to shoehorn Ste into the storyline, and there's no other reason why they would that I can tell. It's just a waiting game now. And it won't even be that long, in fact, they're probably sure to rush it because they don't seem interested in dealing with the aftermath of the rape in much of a serious way (as in would JP even be in any condition for a love life and a sex life for a long time?), and they're keeping Ste a floater character right now without a storyline. And the longer they wait to 'go there' with those 2, the more and more of a stretch it becomes because they won't be able to not move those characters on and keep them in the moment for it to happen for weeks to months. There's no reason Ste shouldn't meet someone else in the meantime otherwise, and JP would have enough to deal with, and there's no great dynamic to Ste and JP anyway for them to want to flesh out. It's convenient for extra drama and they can't afford to wait. The next round of spoilers will probably see Ste, Danny and JP all going even more steps in that direction. at most, Danny will probably find out Ste/JP kissed and flip his shiit. as I've said in the past, Ste is back to being a supporting character. He really can't anchor a SL by himself, which is why he stays supporting the 'main' characters like JP. He's the new Doug, tbh. I'm not really seeing your reasoning here. Fictional couples don't always get together in the same way, so I'm not sure why you think that they never get together "like that" (though I'm not actually sure what you mean by "like that") - some are thrown together quickly and without much build up, some inch towards one another over a long period, some get together, break up for a period, get back together, etc. Characters aren't always brought in with a set storyline in mind - actors and characters are frequently chem-tested with one another to see who works well and looks good with who and who would make an interesting pair, and sometimes characters are on shows together for years before they're paired off (just look at how long Nancy and Darren were around each other, sharing a family, before they got together). I'm not saying that Ste and John Paul are definitely going to have a romantic relationship, or that they definitely will anytime soon, but I don't really see any reason to believe that they definitely won't just because they've kissed once. If both actors stick around for the indefinite future, there are any number of things that could be done with the characters. Soap characters tend to bounce around from relationship to relationship, and it's harder to do that with gay characters (which is why it happens more often that new gay characters are introduced specifically for romance purposes, like Spike or Kieron or Noah), but considering how many gay characters Hollyoaks has currently and has had over the last few years (as opposed to many other soaps that tend to only have two or three at a time) it's a bit easier to have them jump from relationship to relationship just like the straight characters. So even if Ste and JP don't get together in the next few months, there's still no reason (in my opinion) to assume that they never, ever will anytime down the road. Nancy + Darren is an example of what I was talking about. A case of the writers/producers basically going 'whatever, let's see how this goes?' LOL Sure, they can go that route with JP/Ste, but I don't see it happening. There's still so much that can be done, and hooking them up at this stage would mean that one of them would be just about out the door, or Craig/Brendan are returning to put a wrench in it. But also, I just don't think BK is that interested in Ste being happy or romantically involved. I just don't see it. I think, ultimately, Ste will be a tragic character in the same way Doug was... not that he will die, but I just don't think he'll ever be loved up or have his own SL ever again. I mean HO basically created an entire family for Ste - but not FOR Ste, no. They were created to pad JP's story... LOL I find that really hilarious, especially when peeps say that James/JP isn't BK's 'favorite' still. anyway, yeah. I said if they ever get together it will be way down the road.
|
|
|
Post by atlanticslide on Jan 3, 2014 0:23:24 GMT -5
as I've said in the past, Ste is back to being a supporting character. He really can't anchor a SL by himself, which is why he stays supporting the 'main' characters like JP. He's the new Doug, tbh. I don't really get what you're basing this on - Ste's been at the center of a number of big storylines and carried some heavy stuff over the last few years. Even before he came out, there was his abuse of Amy, then raising the kids in Amy's absence and redeeming himself, then coming out and his first go round with Brendan + Brendan's abuse of him, then starting the business with Doug, then he and Doug falling in love, then the triangle with Brendan and Doug, the second go round with Brendan, his downward spiral after Brendan's arrest, Doug's death, connecting with his family - I agree that they've kind of neglected the Danny/Ste relationship recently, but I really disagree with the idea that the Lomax family was brought in to add to John Paul's story. Ste/Kieron Richardson has anchored a number of storylines and been at the forefront on the show for years now. Nancy + Darren is an example of what I was talking about. A case of the writers/producers basically going 'whatever, let's see how this goes?'Well, sure, but that's pretty much half the soap couples out there - the writers think "who haven't we tried? Oh, how about these two, let's see how they work together." The other half is creating a new character with the specific intention of pairing them off with someone else (like John Paul/Kieron) or pairing two characters together in order to facilitate a storyline they want to tell (like Riley/Mercedes/Carl). Loads of soap couples are hooked up because the writers/producers say "whatever, let's see how this goes." Off the top of my head I'd say Darren/Nancy, Darren/Hannah, Tony/Jacqui, Jacqui/Rhys, Kris/Nancy, Nancy/Ravi, Nancy/Russ, Callum/Maddie, Ruby/Jono, Sinead/Bart, Steph/Gilly all might fall under that category of characters that were paired off with one another just to see how they'd go and what would stick. hooking them up at this stage would mean that one of them would be just about out the door, or Craig/Brendan are returning to put a wrench in it. What makes you say that? Hollyoaks has a seriously high body count lately, but there's lots they can do with characters who are in a relationship, even if it's just breaking them up or having them cheat a few months after getting together - which I don't particularly want to see and I think would be rather lazy storytelling, but I'm not really sure why them getting together would be a harbinger of death, especially when these are two rather stable, long term characters who the producers seem dedicated to keeping.
|
|
|
Post by daleeryohm on Jan 3, 2014 0:56:39 GMT -5
Yeah, it's pretty proven that Ste/Kieron Richardson is quite the star character/actor. He's done brilliant work and carried a number of storylines over the past few years. They just gave Brendan most of the focus and giving him another top storyline doesn't seem to be their top priority at the moment. But who's to say in another couple of months. Even now he's still an important character. He'll never be Doug, lol.
But I will agree that the Lomaxs in effect have been more about a storyline for JP than been about Ste's character, which is terribly shameless and wrong of this show to do imo. You give them other interactions and everything, but you don't bring in an entire family for a character but revolve them just as much or even more around another character. Tegan and Leela have so far been pretty pointless, and Danny/Sam have been more about creating anything at all for JP to do because he's not a very complicated interesting character, than being for anything like what could have been another epic storyline for Ste and adding to his complicated backstory. And now Ste's got to fall for JP by default and revolve around JP's character too himself! Danny hasn't even said two words about Pauline and is just a useless redundant character now in that respect since Ste has a more compelling father in Tony. This was the one biological father Ste was ever going to be able to have, and they've wasted what potential there was with it.
I want you to be right though dio. But they won't leave Ste and JP at just that one freak kiss. I don't think they're thinking about the long-term at all. They just see they're two long-standing remaining gay characters and how economic it is to put them together. Ste and JP don't have anywhere near the kind of chemistry and pull and depth to be one of those power couples that can be off and on over and over again for years. It'll be another Stug. If they get them together, are they going to be able to co-exist on the same show when the novelty's gone after and they're just boring and the show has to do other things with them again?
|
|
dio
New Member
Posts: 124
|
Post by dio on Jan 3, 2014 1:48:57 GMT -5
I don't really get what you're basing this on - Ste's been at the center of a number of big storylines and carried some heavy stuff over the last few years. Even before he came out, there was his abuse of Amy, then raising the kids in Amy's absence and redeeming himself, then coming out and his first go round with Brendan + Brendan's abuse of him, then starting the business with Doug, then he and Doug falling in love, then the triangle with Brendan and Doug, the second go round with Brendan, his downward spiral after Brendan's arrest, Doug's death, connecting with his family - I agree that they've kind of neglected the Danny/Ste relationship recently, but I really disagree with the idea that the Lomax family was brought in to add to John Paul's story. Ste/Kieron Richardson has anchored a number of storylines and been at the forefront on the show for years now. post-abusive Ste was all about Brendan. I mean did Ste even have a coming out story FOR HIMSELF? LOL It was like Oh, hey... I'm gay? Cool! And then proceed with Brendan using him as a heavy-bag as he works some personal shiiit out... mess. the entire point of of Danny + his family is to create as much 'casualties' when JP/Danny's affair is exposed as possible. It was a pointless, nothing affair that HO/BK built a pretty big cast around so that when it's exposed it will have a very big impact. it had nothing to do with Ste. Yes, that they are connected to Ste roots them deeper in the village, but it's still nothing to do with Ste as far as rhyme or reason. tbph, Ste is set to become the Kris Fisher of the current HO cast. there's really no point, tho. There's nothing big that will come out of it. No one would care what Danny thinks, and what else is there? It would be one note, and too clean. And HO is not at the point with JP that they will just go 'whatever' and see what sticks. Sure. peeps might think that because that's pretty much the story of JP + Doug, but that was more (imo) busy work for James/PJ while they waited for JP's big SL and Doug's exit. tbh, JP/Ste cancel each other out on the canvas and takeaway potential story from each other. And JP/James is the bigger draw (let's be honest) as far as drawing attention to HO overall, so of course he would get priority. anyway, I've been thinking on it, and I believe HO miiight have Ste fall (alone in love) for JP. And that might be his storyline for a while... ETA: actually, tho. I guess this rape SL will be used to change/darken JP's character considerably? Then Ste/JP won't interfere with each other on the canvas as much... hmm!
|
|
|
Post by ceecee on Jan 3, 2014 2:22:51 GMT -5
I don't really get what you're basing this on - Ste's been at the center of a number of big storylines and carried some heavy stuff over the last few years. Even before he came out, there was his abuse of Amy, then raising the kids in Amy's absence and redeeming himself, then coming out and his first go round with Brendan + Brendan's abuse of him, then starting the business with Doug, then he and Doug falling in love, then the triangle with Brendan and Doug, the second go round with Brendan, his downward spiral after Brendan's arrest, Doug's death, connecting with his family - I agree that they've kind of neglected the Danny/Ste relationship recently, but I really disagree with the idea that the Lomax family was brought in to add to John Paul's story. Ste/Kieron Richardson has anchored a number of storylines and been at the forefront on the show for years now. post-abusive Ste was all about Brendan. I mean did Ste even have a coming out story FOR HIMSELF? LOL It was like Oh, hey... I'm gay? Cool! And then proceed with Brendan using him as a heavy-bag as he works some personal shiiit out... mess. the entire point of of Danny + his family is to create as much 'casualties' when JP/Danny's affair is exposed as possible. It was a pointless, nothing affair that HO/BK built a pretty big cast around so that when it's exposed it will have a very big impact. it had nothing to do with Ste. Yes, that they are connected to Ste roots them deeper in the village, but it's still nothing to do with Ste as far as rhyme or reason. Just because Ste didn't have a tortured coming out story didn't mean he had a coming out story. Not everyone has to have a tormented time coming out. And post-abused Ste was not all about Brendan. The start of Carter and Hay/the start of Stug was about Ste and Doug, Brendan was an interloper/secondary character in that story. Brendan became more of a main character later on but in the beginning, he wasn't. Also, Ste returning to crime and killing his mom was about no one else but Ste. ESPECIALLY him killing his mom. Can we please stop thinking the Lomax family exists solely for John Paul? They're they're own characters involved in multiple story lines--they're like the Roscoes, or the Savages, or even the McQueens--they're not there solely for the purpose of one character, they're there to inject fresh blood into the Hollyoaks machine. They're there because at this rate, Hollyoaks is going to run out of living residents by May.
|
|
|
Post by ceecee on Jan 3, 2014 2:34:05 GMT -5
imo, peeps read too much into spoilers + occurrences on the show and see them as seeds. And then when thy don't 'blossom' peeps get their nose out of joint and cry 'bad writing!!'. Like Father Kieron - he was born to die, in a matter of speaking, yet peeps still don't get that. I don't think this is a fair statement. Ste was only supposed to be on for seven episodes but the writers and fans liked him so they kept extending him. Brendan Brady was only supposed to be around for a few weeks and the same thing happened with Emmett. Sometimes they fly by the seat of their pants and just run with things. I don't know exactly what happened with Kieron but I don't think it's fair to assume that he was "born to die." Their intention was clearly to have JP end up with Craig in the end but that doesn't mean that they knew they were going to off the poor priest. They'd just added him to the credits a few months earlier so clearly they planned on keeping him around for a bit, it just didn't happen. I don't know if James quitting screwed up their plans or if they didn't see any where for his character to go or what but I don't think they hired Jake with the intention of offing his character nine months down the line.
|
|
|
Post by daleeryohm on Jan 3, 2014 3:09:13 GMT -5
Isn't that what I was saying before? lol But exactly. At least with Danny and JP, there's the whole fallout with the Lomaxs when they find out about the affair that makes it a story. What storyline is there with Ste and JP? I don't care about Danny and his and Ste's relationship, which is all it would affect.I don't really see the need to throw Ste into it to make a quadrangle. And I just find it too unbelievable to make Ste fall for JP after they made Ste's father fall in love with JP. Craig and Kieron aren't Ste and Danny, and JP's not so attractive to have another set of 2 men in love with him, especially not a father and son, and double-especially not Ste. And with Danny, at least he could take some kind of point in the rape storyline with the fact he's a teacher too and would be interacting with Finn and Robbie. Plus, there's Patrick too and the fact both Danny and JP could lose their jobs if they were found out about. Finn and Robbie could threaten to expose them if JP goes to the police. And Danny hasn't got much else to do as a character anyway. This is his storyline (which has nothing to do with Ste, the son he was supposed to be brought in for - I think about the potential Ste's father could have had: he could have come in and tried to rob Ste of the money the business is worth, or if they'd given Ste the club; or he could have been jealous of Tony for Tony and Ste's relationship and gone after Tony or seduced Diane; or his real dad could have been related to Terry, Ste's abusive step-father. So much they squandered so JP could have another affair storyline : . All that would connect Ste to the rape story is his closeness to Tony. There isn't much way for him to provide drama to the story. Danny and Ste could just have a falling out about the kiss and Ste later finding out about the affair being back on, but that's really it. They just need to work on setting Ste up with a real storyline of his own again. And you're right again dio. So much of Ste's and JP's stories have revolved around their partners' issues, and they would just cancel each other out drama-wise. There's no storyline with those 2 in a relationship. And how exactly are they going to darken JP's character? They can't make him a murderer or a gangster or anything because he was raped. Besides making him an alcoholic or a junkie or suicidal, there isn't anything to do with changing the character. The aftermath more has to just be about everyone finding out the truth and Finn being brought to justice. So I don't know. Maybe we've been too hasty in assuming a triangle, and that kiss really was just another forced OMG and to make us all go crazy as it has, lol. Or they'll go with triangle anyway and end up at a pointless dead-end with it because they never think about stuff and just overegg everything. Why else have Ste talk to Tony for JP about Finn when it's unnecessary? All there really is to do is just wait and see what happens.
|
|
dio
New Member
Posts: 124
|
Post by dio on Jan 3, 2014 3:32:06 GMT -5
Just because Ste didn't have a tortured coming out story didn't mean he had a coming out story. Not everyone has to have a tormented time coming out. And post-abused Ste was not all about Brendan. The start of Carter and Hay/the start of Stug was about Ste and Doug, Brendan was an interloper/secondary character in that story. Brendan became more of a main character later on but in the beginning, he wasn't. Also, Ste returning to crime and killing his mom was about no one else but Ste. ESPECIALLY him killing his mom. Can we please stop thinking the Lomax family exists solely for John Paul? They're they're own characters involved in multiple story lines--they're like the Roscoes, or the Savages, or even the McQueens--they're not there solely for the purpose of one character, they're there to inject fresh blood into the Hollyoaks machine. They're there because at this rate, Hollyoaks is going to run out of living residents by May. i'm not talking about a 'tortured coming out story'. I mean JP didn't have a tortured coming out story, yet he STILL had a coming out story. Ste/Doug was a red haring to make viewers think HO would do McDean retread, and then they flipped the script on everyone... and everyone went apeshiit at the thought of Ste falling for big bad Brendan instead of awesome, perfect Doug. Really clever stuff, imo. I don't think this is a fair statement. Ste was only supposed to be on for seven episodes but the writers and fans liked him so they kept extending him. Brendan Brady was only supposed to be around for a few weeks and the same thing happened with Emmett. Sometimes they fly by the seat of their pants and just run with things. I don't know exactly what happened with Kieron but I don't think it's fair to assume that he was "born to die." Their intention was clearly to have JP end up with Craig in the end but that doesn't mean that they knew they were going to off the poor priest. They'd just added him to the credits a few months earlier so clearly they planned on keeping him around for a bit, it just didn't happen. I don't know if James quitting screwed up their plans or if they didn't see any where for his character to go or what but I don't think they hired Jake with the intention of offing his character nine months down the line. yeah, a lot of actors on soaps are brought on w/o contract to see where the story goes. That doesn't mean it has anything to do with fans liking them as much as it has to do with there being STORY there to work with and actors down for a regular paycheck. LOL and yeah, I thought there would be more to Kieron, too... oh well. Boy was I wrong. >_<
|
|
|
Post by ceecee on Jan 3, 2014 7:31:48 GMT -5
Just because Ste didn't have a tortured coming out story didn't mean he had a coming out story. Not everyone has to have a tormented time coming out. And post-abused Ste was not all about Brendan. The start of Carter and Hay/the start of Stug was about Ste and Doug, Brendan was an interloper/secondary character in that story. Brendan became more of a main character later on but in the beginning, he wasn't. Also, Ste returning to crime and killing his mom was about no one else but Ste. ESPECIALLY him killing his mom. Can we please stop thinking the Lomax family exists solely for John Paul? They're they're own characters involved in multiple story lines--they're like the Roscoes, or the Savages, or even the McQueens--they're not there solely for the purpose of one character, they're there to inject fresh blood into the Hollyoaks machine. They're there because at this rate, Hollyoaks is going to run out of living residents by May. i'm not talking about a 'tortured coming out story'. I mean JP didn't have a tortured coming out story, yet he STILL had a coming out story. Ste/Doug was a red haring to make viewers think HO would do McDean retread, and then they flipped the script on everyone... and everyone went apeshiit at the thought of Ste falling for big bad Brendan instead of awesome, perfect Doug. Really clever stuff, imo. JP repressing who he was by dating Hannah for months before being caught kissing Craig, forced out of the closet, and then tortured for months by classmates including Craig is pretty much the definition of a tortured coming out story. And there were a few instances where Ste came out to people, it's just that no one made a big deal out of it. Ste was pretty comfortable with the realization so he didn't really have a "gay crisis" but sometimes that's all there is to it. Doug was his own character that was pretty amazing before Stug. The McDean retread was George and Callum and then caught everyone off guard with Ste and Doug--which I agree was clever--but again, bringing it back to the point, Doug didn't "turn gay" for the benefit of Stendan. Stug was a storyline for Doug and Ste, not Brendan. Kieron's been on the show for almost 8 years now (as of Feb) and he's been featured in several amazing story lines. He's gonna be in a whole lot more.
|
|
|
Post by daleeryohm on Jan 3, 2014 8:26:25 GMT -5
uh, sorry ceecee, but it's been said by ES and PJ that Doug was made gay for the sake of the Stendan storyline. They knew what the endgame was, and then Doug had very little point as a character from his return from America to when he died in October. I'm not saying that to be at all harsh. I very much liked Doug and Lynsey together and was excited for them to become a couple as it seemed like it was headed that way, but then the show did the 'clever' thing and ruined a good thing with Ste and Doug's friendship and shoved Stug down my throat. Stug wasn't much of storyline either, imo.
|
|
|
Post by atlanticslide on Jan 3, 2014 10:53:54 GMT -5
[qoute]yeah, a lot of actors on soaps are brought on w/o contract to see where the story goes. That doesn't mean it has anything to do with fans liking them as much as it has to do with there being STORY there to work with and actors down for a regular paycheck. LOL [/quote] Story isn't just created out of thin air, though, and it's not always inherent in the characters on the screen as soon as they show up, so I'm not really sure why there's an assumption that there'll be no story to tell with John Paul and Ste. If the writers want to go there with them, they'll come up with something. I do think how long characters last has a lot to do with how much fans like them, how much the producers and writers like them - lots of factors, certainly, but I don't think you can discount fan reaction (just look at JP/Craig - I don't think they would have gotten their sunset ending had it not been for the insistence of fans). I agree. Considering how many storylines the Lomax family is involved in - other than Danny, there's Sam the supercop investigating literally every crime in the village, Tegan's baby with Fraser, and Peri who people are speculating may be Sienna's daughter Sophie - I just don't really see evidence for the assertion that they were brought in primarily for John Paul's story. And hell, even if they were, at this point does it really matter? A big shocking reveal at Danny's affair with John Paul is definitely one reason they're here, but I think they've been integrated into the village and into other storylines pretty well so far (though I personally couldn't care less about Fraser so the drama surrounding his baby with Tegan doesn't really interest me). Also, I've always believed that Hollyoaks introduces huge families with the express purpose of killing off at least one or two of them, so there's that as well
|
|
dio
New Member
Posts: 124
|
Post by dio on Jan 3, 2014 12:15:48 GMT -5
JP repressing who he was by dating Hannah for months before being caught kissing Craig, forced out of the closet, and then tortured for months by classmates including Craig is pretty much the definition of a tortured coming out story. And there were a few instances where Ste came out to people, it's just that no one made a big deal out of it. Ste was pretty comfortable with the realization so he didn't really have a "gay crisis" but sometimes that's all there is to it. Doug was his own character that was pretty amazing before Stug. The McDean retread was George and Callum and then caught everyone off guard with Ste and Doug--which I agree was clever--but again, bringing it back to the point, Doug didn't "turn gay" for the benefit of Stendan. Stug was a storyline for Doug and Ste, not Brendan. Kieron's been on the show for almost 8 years now (as of Feb) and he's been featured in several amazing story lines. He's gonna be in a whole lot more. hmm, if you consider that a tortured coming out story... then OK? Seems like a pretty basic read of a straight guy coming to grips with being gay, with a falling for his BF thrown in for good measure (to complicate things) to me, tho. LOL eh, I can appreciate they glossed over Ste being gay because that wasn't the focus/the writers didn't care to focus. But that's sort of my point. It's like the writers wanted to get Ste from point A to point B and just went for it. It makes sense, but at the same time it really displays the writer's disinterest in Ste as a sole figure, which is my point. Ste is involved in all these stories, but none of them are about him. It's like Kieron and JP - people go on about how sucky the SL was because we weren't really shown Kieron's struggle with his feelings (it was all taken as given), but it's like... the story was NOT about Kieron or his struggle. It was about JP doing the damn thing. that's what I'm getting at, basically. Ste's treatment on the show is very much that of a supporting character, even when he's the lead in the story. I mean his boyfriend dies... and it's like so what? Brendan goes to prison? Ste loses his mind - and again, that's a Brendan-focused storyline, even while Brendan's off-canvas. It's not about Ste, but Brendan's effect on Ste! and again, I'm sorry, but Doug was basically brought on to continually serve as a 'better choice' than Brendan that Ste never even cared to consider. That's pretty much it. It's obvious in the way he was written and it's obvious in the way everything settled out. i mean Ste/Doug and Brendan/Ste probably had about the same amount of viewer interest/following, and yet, why did PTB go with Ste/Brendan as End Game?! Because that was how the story went. It's really that simple. Fan petitions and campaigns are cute, but they really have little to no effect on how a story shakes out. if the writers had any interest in Doug/Ste they would have had Ste choose Doug before Brendan went to prison, and be happy and loved-up in the lead-in to Doug's untimely death, for MAXIMUM emotional impact, but alas...
|
|
dio
New Member
Posts: 124
|
Post by dio on Jan 3, 2014 12:21:40 GMT -5
I agree. Considering how many storylines the Lomax family is involved in - other than Danny, there's Sam the supercop investigating literally every crime in the village, Tegan's baby with Fraser, and Peri who people are speculating may be Sienna's daughter Sophie - I just don't really see evidence for the assertion that they were brought in primarily for John Paul's story. And hell, even if they were, at this point does it really matter? A big shocking reveal at Danny's affair with John Paul is definitely one reason they're here, but I think they've been integrated into the village and into other storylines pretty well so far (though I personally couldn't care less about Fraser so the drama surrounding his baby with Tegan doesn't really interest me). Also, I've always believed that Hollyoaks introduces huge families with the express purpose of killing off at least one or two of them, so there's that as well well, obviously while they are on the canvas they will be used and have life breathed into 'em, otherwise... why would anyone give a hoot about their reaction when the affair is revealed? but THE reason they were brought on the show was for the fall-out of JP's affair. Otherwise, it's not even an affair but just JP sleeping with some older fella, and when the village finds out... who cares? LOL
|
|
|
Post by atlanticslide on Jan 3, 2014 13:11:15 GMT -5
How do you know that, though? How do you know the writers didn't say to themselves "we really need a cop who's a full-time character on the show, and we have this building mob storyline, who else can we introduce to shake that up? What else can we do with Sienna and Patrick's backstory - oh, give Sienna a secret kid who was given away as a baby. We need some new characters, let's bring in a new family to build on the guy we've already introduced who we've said has a secret, and we can do all of these other things as well." I mean, ultimately, does it even really matter one way or another? I find it impossible to believe that four characters were introduced and given storylines solely because they wanted a big shock reveal, but the end result is that we will very likely get that big shock reveal, plus all of these other characters in other storylines and building up other relationships. The Lomax family bonding hasn't been just about Ste/Danny - its also been about Ste getting to know his sisters and being part of a larger family, and it's being affected by the Danny/John Paul relationship because that's just how things work on soap operas, storylines tend to intersect like that.
"That's how the story went" because that's how the writers and show producers decided they wanted the story to go. Again, stories don't just drop out of the sky fully formed, and while many storylines on Hollyoaks are plotted out with a specific conclusion in mind, on soaps more than almost any other genre of TV show stories are written as they go along and can change depending on things that come up like actor availability, chemistry, intersection of other storylines and, yes, fan reaciton. I don't have any hard numbers to show which fanbase was bigger or how many people liked each couple, but the number of people clamoring for a Brendan/Ste reunion was not insignificant, and I think you're a bit naive if you believe that fan reaction has no impact on the direction that shows take. To name a few examples, on One Life to Live there was a loud enough outcry over the Kyle/Fish storyline and a (in my opinion, wrong) opinion that their romance was the reason for falling ratings that the characters were written out rather abruptly. On Hollyoaks, the Loretta child murder storyline was scrapped at the last minute because of fan outcry and media controversy surrounding it. It's not always about fan petitions and letter writing campaigns, but show producers do pay attention to what and who is popular and (sometimes, not always) tailor storylines to what they think the majority of fans want to see.
|
|
dio
New Member
Posts: 124
|
Post by dio on Jan 3, 2014 13:55:14 GMT -5
How do you know that, though? How do you know the writers didn't say to themselves "we really need a cop who's a full-time character on the show, and we have this building mob storyline, who else can we introduce to shake that up? What else can we do with Sienna and Patrick's backstory - oh, give Sienna a secret kid who was given away as a baby. We need some new characters, let's bring in a new family to build on the guy we've already introduced who we've said has a secret, and we can do all of these other things as well." I mean, ultimately, does it even really matter one way or another? I find it impossible to believe that four characters were introduced and given storylines solely because they wanted a big shock reveal, but the end result is that we will very likely get that big shock reveal, plus all of these other characters in other storylines and building up other relationships. The Lomax family bonding hasn't been just about Ste/Danny - its also been about Ste getting to know his sisters and being part of a larger family, and it's being affected by the Danny/John Paul relationship because that's just how things work on soap operas, storylines tend to intersect like that. the sole reason for Danny's existence on the canvas is JP (the Ste connection is almost an afterthought), and the fleshing out of Danny's family is an extension of JP's affair with Danny... that's basically a fact, regardless of how many SL's were born out of their existence/ties that now bind the members of Danny's family to Chester currently. if JP/Danny's affair reveal wasn't expected to be an EVENT before, it will certainly be one NOW. yeah, I saw the Kyle/Fish SL as it played out... and it was boring as heck. LOL That's probably why they were written out, because nobody cared and the storyline was VERY one-note. Kind of like Will/Sonny, except they are both connected to core family/characters so there's more potential story there. Kyle/Fish were basically 2 side characters thrust into the spotlight, and they never really happened (despite whatever negligible fanbase they acquired) in any meaningful way. also, media controversy =/= fan reaction. I'm sure if the media gloms on to a story and makes a big enough stink it will influence production... but even saying that, it doesn't really influence much if TPTB are set on seeing a SL through. Luke killing his grandchild while driving drunk made very big waves, and yet... PTB went through w/ it. Sharon/Adam and Phyllis/Nick happened amidst deafening fan outcry and media buzz (i think those were cases of actor influence, tho), and PTB still went though with 'em. bold: i do agree with this. And HO does it all the time - with Ste and JP, constantly using them to introduce new characters. The difference there, tho, is that it's obvious PTB have an interest in JP's character while Ste is usually just there. i do sort of think BK has some sort of 'big plan' in store for Ste, especially now that he has a family and isn't just out there on his own anymore. LOL
|
|
|
Post by atlanticslide on Jan 3, 2014 14:22:48 GMT -5
I'm just going to go ahead and agree to disagree with you, dio, because I think we just fundamentally disagree on everything here and I'm not really seeing any common ground and, to be quite honest, I find most of your comments rather condescending, so I'm going to end my part of it here.
|
|
|
Post by ceecee on Jan 3, 2014 14:51:16 GMT -5
I agree. Considering how many storylines the Lomax family is involved in - other than Danny, there's Sam the supercop investigating literally every crime in the village, Tegan's baby with Fraser, and Peri who people are speculating may be Sienna's daughter Sophie - I just don't really see evidence for the assertion that they were brought in primarily for John Paul's story. And hell, even if they were, at this point does it really matter? A big shocking reveal at Danny's affair with John Paul is definitely one reason they're here, but I think they've been integrated into the village and into other storylines pretty well so far (though I personally couldn't care less about Fraser so the drama surrounding his baby with Tegan doesn't really interest me). Also, I've always believed that Hollyoaks introduces huge families with the express purpose of killing off at least one or two of them, so there's that as well Oh my god, can we please talk about how amazing Sam is? I adore her. She's fun, a bad ass, and even some what competent for a cop which I honestly thought was impossible in Hollyoaks. Also, Lizzie Roper is hilarious.
|
|
|
Post by Zathras on Jan 3, 2014 20:57:06 GMT -5
Almost all of the conversation over the last 24 hours needed to be in General Discussion.
There are also far too many opinions being presented as facts. Don't confuse them.
|
|
|
Post by daleeryohm on Jan 6, 2014 8:28:21 GMT -5
I've seen another spoiler about how the day after the attack, Finn's feeling 'guilty' and tries to dispose of the evidence.
Now, this is Hollyoaks, and also a tea-time soap, so I'm going to rule out this evidence being either clothes stained with anal blood or an object he used to do the actual raping with.
I guess it means he knocks JP out after all, and it's whatever he used to do that with.
I'm not sure how they're going to get it across he was raped now, if he's unconscious for the assault. As bad as the buildup's already been, I wouldn't put it past them to just expect the audience to know a rape has happened because of all the press and word-of-mouth this story has gotten, and what happens onscreen is ambiguous and could be taken as if he was just bludgeoned over the head and left there in the classroom.
And I've just remembered how JP's apparently 'paralyzed with fear' for the rape, so he can't be knocked out and unconscious! Nothing makes sense!
*bites tongue about the thoughtlessness behind this storyline*
They're really going to get it in the neck behind this story, I can just see it.
|
|