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Post by ivaniv on Jul 10, 2009 12:12:29 GMT -5
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kes
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Without community, there is no liberation. Audre Lorde
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Post by kes on Jul 10, 2009 12:22:48 GMT -5
Ivan, thanks so much!!!!
This episode looks great, though I can't understand the German. However, the arguments, the denial (on Christian's side), the pushing too hard for recognition of the problem (on Olli's side) seem so natural.
Thore and Jo act this beautifully.
I can't imagine characters acting much differently. If I were Christian, I would definitely have been hitting that bag, and I'm not even into boxing.
I'd also be very annoyed if my lover tried to push a new life on me too soon.
Yet Olli's actions speak to Olli's love.
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maya
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Post by maya on Jul 10, 2009 12:23:01 GMT -5
thank you so much ivan
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Nitty
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I will eat your brains and gain your knowledge...
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Post by Nitty on Jul 10, 2009 12:27:15 GMT -5
Thanks so much Ivan!
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Post by ivaniv on Jul 10, 2009 12:28:47 GMT -5
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nryabenko
Junior Member
Love does not discriminate
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Post by nryabenko on Jul 10, 2009 12:33:01 GMT -5
This reminds me of a show I was watching once.
This woman was allergic to shellfish. But she wouldn't stop eating them, event when she blow up like a ballon. The doctor told her that she would keep blowing up like a ballon if she continued to eat shellfish. In one ear out the other.
The same with Christian, he understands that its bad for him to continue boxing, but he just can't stop, because he loves it so much.
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sundew
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"If love's a word, that you say, then say it, I will listen."
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Post by sundew on Jul 10, 2009 12:41:51 GMT -5
Thank you so very much Ivan! Nice to see you back here Short comment on my side: Shame they didn't use the lucky towel... ;D
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Post by tihkon2 on Jul 10, 2009 13:51:35 GMT -5
Thanks for the clip and the caps Ivan!Chris and Olli are acting just like we thought they would. ;D And everyone should check out the blog at www.chrolli.de as well. There's a subtitled version there too. Basically it's a continuation of today's episode.
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Post by dalphine on Jul 10, 2009 14:01:17 GMT -5
Christian is so hot and has a rocking body. I loved today esipode Thore and Jo are great actors.
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Post by lolaruns on Jul 10, 2009 14:07:12 GMT -5
Christian's crazyeyes of anger a back, awwww! And darn, can he be a bitch with the low blows. It's so great to finally get a bit more Judith airtime for a change.
I'm still confused about how bad the illness really is supposed to be for now. If it is as described, I do get why Christian might want to wait on and not change his major already when it's not even decided how it will go.
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Post by rhiannonhero on Jul 10, 2009 14:26:24 GMT -5
Christian's crazyeyes of anger a back, awwww! And darn, can he be a bitch with the low blows. Haha! Yes, I love that! Both the crazy-eyes and the bitchy low-blows. So very in character. Terrific. I'm also very pleased that they are (so far) doing well with the stages of grief, starting off quite well with denial (and some anger). Very nice. And, of course, the acting was really damn good. I might've been moved to get a little choked up in some parts, and in others I might've started getting kind of upset. Ahem. Not over-invested or anything. Nope, not me. Anyway, I can't wait until I can actually know what they are saying! Haha! Thanks Ivan, and thanks in advance to Nanna and tikhon.
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nryabenko
Junior Member
Love does not discriminate
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Post by nryabenko on Jul 10, 2009 14:29:49 GMT -5
The illness can take a very long time to heal.
It's a virus which attaches the heart muscle. Hopefully they'll treat it, but if he continues to box or work out until he's tired, he might damage the heart muscle.
As I understand it for reading Wikapedia, the virus inflames the heart muscle. If you over do anything for to long its very faital.
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Post by lolaruns on Jul 10, 2009 14:42:50 GMT -5
I find Christian's low blows pretty fascinating. He often says things that are clearly untrue (like asking Olli whether he was firing him so he could carry on with other guys or insinuating that Olli would have done something with the critic). It makes me wonder whether he keeps throwing these low blows almost as if to test Olli/to get an reaction. And Olli of course knows they are low blows and refuses to take the bait. Makes me wonder what would actually happen if Olli did take Christian's accusations to heart and reacted. Me thinks Christian would be apologizing in a flash once he gets an action, but he doesn't, so it's an interesting dynamic.
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kes
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Without community, there is no liberation. Audre Lorde
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Post by kes on Jul 10, 2009 15:02:51 GMT -5
I find Christian's low blows pretty fascinating. He often says things that are clearly untrue (like asking Olli whether he was firing him so he could carry on with other guys or insinuating that Olli would have done something with the critic). It makes me wonder whether he keeps throwing these low blows almost as if to test Olli/to get an reaction. And Olli of course knows they are low blows and refuses to take the bait. Makes me wonder what would actually happen if Olli did take Christian's accusations to heart and reacted. Me thinks Christian would be apologizing in a flash once he gets an action, but he doesn't, so it's an interesting dynamic. I hate to admit it, rhia, but I lowblow often with my husband (no pun intended). It doesn't seem uncommon in relationships. You are angry so you want to make the other feel it, so you say things you know aren't true, say them because they "feel" true at the time. This doesn't seem particularly nefarious to me or unusual.
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Post by Duskysoda on Jul 10, 2009 15:12:42 GMT -5
what low blows did Christian send Olli's way during this fight??
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Post by lolaruns on Jul 10, 2009 15:22:12 GMT -5
(I pust the emphasis on how it was spoken in the sentence)
4.23: Do you know what they are asking of me? That I give up *everything* that is important to me, my studies, boxing...my future.
4:43: (Olli tells him to do what the doctors tell him to do, because the docs know more than he, Olli, does) Sure, I'll just do what everybody tells me, and how it is for me, that you don't give a damn about. If you really loved me you would think about me *for a change*.
6.30: (Olli tells him that no matter, he has to prepare for the worst case now) Even if I'm repeating myself, I need a boyfriend who will stand with me, not pour salt into the wound.
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Post by rhiannonhero on Jul 10, 2009 15:40:23 GMT -5
Ah, yes, quite low blows, imo. The first list of *everything* that is important doesn't include Olli at all, and saying that Olli doesn't think of him is ludicrous given their relationship dynamics, which are, truly, nearly all about Christian all of the time. And the last...argh. Oh, Christian. You're a meanie sometimes.
(He reminds me of this friend of mine who used to say the most insane things in fights. Like once when she was angry with me she yelled, "And you wonder why nobody likes you!!" Which, um, I'd never wondered because plenty of people like me just fine...a lot even. I remember laughing when she said it, actually, because it was so absurd, but totally her style of fighting -- i.e. making up low blows just to be hurtful.)
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I ♥ Blaine
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....new kid. You'll fit right in!
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Post by I ♥ Blaine on Jul 10, 2009 15:45:25 GMT -5
Olli: "Is that the towelknot, or are you just happy to see me?"
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Post by chrolliforever7 on Jul 10, 2009 15:46:14 GMT -5
Olli: "Is that the towelknot, or are you just happy to see me?" BAAAAAAAAHAHHAAH omg that made me laugh. XD Its so true. And hot. ;D
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kes
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Post by kes on Jul 10, 2009 17:01:04 GMT -5
Ah, yes, quite low blows, imo. The first list of *everything* that is important doesn't include Olli at all, and saying that Olli doesn't think of him is ludicrous given their relationship dynamics, which are, truly, nearly all about Christian all of the time. And the last...argh. Oh, Christian. You're a meanie sometimes. (He reminds me of this friend of mine who used to say the most insane things in fights. Like once when she was angry with me she yelled, "And you wonder why nobody likes you!!" Which, um, I'd never wondered because plenty of people like me just fine...a lot even. I remember laughing when she said it, actually, because it was so absurd, but totally her style of fighting -- i.e. making up low blows just to be hurtful.) I'm a bit amused. One, because everyone seems to be giving Christian a hard time when he has just found out that he has a major and perhaps fatal illness that has taken away everything from him (aside from the ones he loves). Would anyone here react in a sane manner? And, of course, I can't help but take a bit of umbrage at the idea that these relationship dynamics are ludicrous. They are, but they are very human. Christian acts this way in times of stress. Olli acts badly in times of stress. I admitted just a little while ago that I can say such things in arguments. So can friends -- and we all have very healthy, long-standing relationships. Relationships aren't perfect. Neither are people, particularly when they've just been told that they have lost everything. (And this a person who went to jail for his father, and lost his father, who was framed for a crime, and who may have lost his mother to suicide -- how much more dissapointment can one man take?) In fact, I'd argue here that Olli is being very insenstive in not giving Christian time to adjust. He doesn't let Christian talk to him about his feelings, he lectures Christian in the blog about how he should be grateful to be alive (talk about argh!) and he throws books at Christian about new careers -- and this the day Christian has found out about all this. I understand Olli, and don't blame him, but obviously if he were not so affected himself, he would be more sensitive and caring. His lack of sensitivity seems crueler than any lowblows inflicted by Christian -- who no longer has No Limits to turn to, either, as his boyfriend has taken it over and summarily tossed Christian out after a couple of arguments, without even bothering to discuss the issue with Christian, as one would in a healthy relationship. (Again he fired Christian from No Limits, Christian's home away from home ever since he moved back into town, a place where the Taurian Christian could ground himself, the place where he made his income -- vital to power and grounding. Essentially, Olli leaves Christian at his monetary and emotional mercy.) I'll add here that NL was the place Christian helped Olli renovate -- no wonder Christian yells that Olli doesn't care. He took all of this with a bit too much grace. I am being strident here, but I can't imagine handling this much better than Christian has. And Olli? He's been wonderful and loving, but needs to get a clue.
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Post by nanna on Jul 10, 2009 17:12:04 GMT -5
Today's episode with English subtitles:
Thanks Tihkon, Ivan and Sonnenschein!
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Post by mona on Jul 10, 2009 17:19:29 GMT -5
I understand Christian and that he's using Olli to lose some anger is because Olli is one of the few people where he would act like he really feels. I like that but today his ecaxt words "If you would love me..." and "I need a boyfriend who.." were sounding like a blackmail to me and I'm glad Olli didn't take it just for the harmony. Christian didn't want some time or other things he wanted Olli to look and accpet that he's risking his life. Christians "I feel good" in the bedroom was a little "crazy" and no wonder Olli feels like he has to "take over" for Christian. I don't know but "saving" the life is apologizing more for me.
Why isn't Christian saying: I rest for a while and look how it is in a month (for example). He still has a chance if he listens to his doctor and training on the day he left the hospital wouldn't be good even for "normal" people. Then he didn't want to tell Olli (shows that Christian basically knows it's not okay) and was going for sex (right after his training)
I also didn't see when Olli was treating like a really sick guy? I expected him to stop Christians try to have sex and that would've been really awful for Christians "man-behaviour" I think.
But of course it's clear Christian is feeling awful when he was hurting Olli,too. It's not like he's enjoying it.
Christian is the character on the soap where the level of "normal" and "freaking out" seems the most separated to me. No one can really talk to him like that and it's just waiting until he's "normal" again.
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Post by rhiannonhero on Jul 10, 2009 17:25:55 GMT -5
And, of course, I can't help but take a bit of umbrage at the idea that these relationship dynamics are ludicrous. I just wanted to clarify, since you used the words that I used in my comment, that I do not think their relationship dynamic is ludicrous. What I said was that for Christian to claim that Olli never thought about him (i.e. "for a change") is ludicrous. I actually love the way both of them are acting. Perfectly in character and very human and believable. I am certainly not being hard on Christian. I actually love his low-blows, and I am not being hard on Olli because I love his panic and fear. So, you know, I think that it is possible to be amused by the character's behaviors and not be coming down on them in a negative way. As usual, kes, I think you're way too hard on Olli, though. I can't agree with much of what you say about him, including that he should get a clue. I think he's behaving in a very believable manner, and I like everything he's doing...even if Christian doesn't. (And, I like everything Christian is doing -- even if Olli doesn't -- even his low-blows, which are totally in character for him.) ETA: As for No Limits, I think that Olli never intended to "fire" him, and he was never given a chance to explain. He never, ever, ever said, "You're fired." He said, "I think it would be best if you didn't work at No Limits anymore." Then Christian wouldn't let him explain at all, and interpreted it to be, "You're fired. Immediately. Right this second." Which I actually don't think Olli intended at all. I suspect he thought they'd talk it through, and Christian would continue to work there until he found another job, but then Christian blew his stack, and never allowed Olli to talk it over with him at all. I think that everyone saying that Olli fired Christian is a misconstruction of events entirely. The fact that Christian continues to help out there illustrates that even more, imo. I'm not saying that losing NL as his place of employment doesn't play into his situation, but I think that it doesn't play into it as much as your comment might make it seem. Had he been able to become a fitness coach, Christian would never have looked back on that with anything but gratefulness -- both because of the improvement in their relationship, and because he got to do something he really wanted and enjoyed. Circumstances prevented that, but it doesn't make it less true had they not.
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kes
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Post by kes on Jul 10, 2009 17:32:23 GMT -5
Thanks Nanna! Mona, I love what you say generally, but I still can't agree here. I just can't believe how hard folks are being on Christian. Are people here really this tidy with their feelings? If so, that kind of scares me. I'd rather not have to live up to the standards being set -- particularly on the day I find out I have a debilitating disease. And the fact is, Olli has been thoughtless lately. I still find it questionable that Olli fired Chrisitan so easily, without even talking to him. And here, on the day Christian has lost everything, Olli says (basically) "NL is the best lounge in all of Dusseldorf." In other words, "Let me remind you how successful I am on this day when you found out you don't have anything to fall back on except for me." And, of course, this is the lounge Olli wants Christian to have no part in (unless Olli has a need or an emergency -- then it would be evil for Christian not to come to help him, nu?) I'm more involved than I thought. I suppose what is getting at me is this idea that feelings should be so tidy. That people should be so tidy. I like Olli because he is untidy -- I like his sharpness, his occasional thoughtlessness, his occasional selfishness (which he masks so well with his overabundant, zealously expressed care). I like Christian for being angry, bullish, wanting to deny, being pissy. I've liked his recent maturity, but it's seemed that he hasn't been honest, either. If people are willing to allow Olli the humanity of flirting and firing his boyfriend with no discussion, then why can't they allow Christian this without blaming him? It just makes me feel sad. I just can't imagine living in such a tidy world. (Mona, we both have strong feelings on this. Know, however, that you have my great respect. You just care for Olli and what he's going through -- and that is a good thing. You have a big heart! I am just having a reaction as I am identifying with Christian. Reality looks different depending on what part of the elephant we blind men end up touching. )(rhia: I respect you too. However, you and I do have different views on Olli. I think he can be cruel, and I don't think he inteded to talk to Christian about No Limits -- he just said "I don't think you should be working there" and went back to sleep. Anyway, we won't agree on this. As I've said before, I like the complexity of Olli. People are actually like this -- they can be cruel and selfish when they are also being kind. Olli is a well-drawn character as he is so indicitive of what is human. Accepting Olli for all he is, is, for me, and act of love.
But, let me give in on this point: Christian is a jerk sometimes just as much as Olli is. To be honest, he's just a more boring as a jerk (to me :. (He's not a boring person, but he doesn't have Olli's thrilling joi de vivre, his eccentricity.) I relate more to Olli than to Christian in many ways.
I could never be in a relationship with Christian because he (ironically) does seem to have a need for tidy feelings. It's rather funny. I just feel defensive because I sense he's gotten more than his share lately.)Oy! I have gotten angry. I have a lot of Aries in my chart, and combined with Scorpio that's rather dangerous. Anyway, no excuses. Any anger you sense here is about the characters. I love this community and everyone who feels as I do about these characters, even if they think differently.
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Post by rhiannonhero on Jul 10, 2009 17:35:46 GMT -5
I don't blame Christian, fwiw. I think he's reacting exactly as he should. I'm loving it. Go on with his angsty-ass!!! As for Olli, ditto.
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