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Post by tihkon2 on Jun 22, 2009 16:43:37 GMT -5
Here is today's episode with English Subtitles. Enjoy! Danke Nanna und Ivan! Olivia was soooooooooo helpful today, wasn't she?
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Post by mona on Jun 22, 2009 17:13:05 GMT -5
The hug was beautiful and I like how Christian learned to "give in" for the greater good and I think Olli is stunned about the fact because he thought Christian would "hate" him for his fast decision but then he comes down and gives him the most beautiful hug ever. It's not like Olli doesn't know the feeling of people going away (his mother for example) when he doesn't act like they want.
What's bothering me a bit lately is the "cryptic" way of some dialogues. So much room to guess about things right now.
But I don't think Christian is the perfect partner now and Olli changed and became a not-so-good partner for Christian. Being jealous even though there's no reason isn't the best behaviour either and mistrust is never good. I'm glad Judith talked to him about it and he was so eager to get her support it was his last second where he thought he might be right after all.
I feel sorry for Olli a bit. No one besides Christian is really there for him these days. Gregor isn't reliable and Olivia isn't helpful either. On the other side he's there for everyone when he's needed. Maybe it's good he gets a bit more selfish for once.
It's also sweet that Christian was mad but he wasn't ready to argue about their relationship in his rage. Instead he was working on a new job.
I even think it's nice how they make things bigger than they are. Olli said they fight like all the time because of the NL but we saw two major fights and everything else was flirting, hugging and kissing while they were working.
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Post by sheepiefarm on Jun 22, 2009 18:06:59 GMT -5
Wow - talk about complete role reversal! I have mixed feelings about this episode It was a good episode and some things surprised me - Judith's reaction to Christian for one - it's not like her to be so "philosophical" about things - although it was nice to see that side of her. I have to be honest - I wasn't feeling much sympathy for Olli when Miriam walked out and he was looking with pleading eyes at Christian - because (for me) his remorse was not derived from the fact that he'd just fired Christian in the most brutal & machiavellian way, but rather, it was derived from a "OMG what am I gonna do now". I don't dispute the fact that pushing Christian out of NL will probably do him the world of good - maybe even to Olli's detriment in the long run as it will give Christian the impetus to be less "reliant" on Olli - but I really am quite disturbed at the way it was done. His justification for it is "for the good of the relationship" - but for me it really begs the question "when did Olli become the sole decision maker for them as a couple? I think (for me) this is what is irritating me about all of this. How easily did Christian " roll over & play dead" Don't get me wrong - I truly loved the way Christian stepped up to the mark in the end - these guys hug with such feeling - and it shows just how far Christian has matured and become a stronger person for it - but I can't help feeling that we've almost reached the point where Olli says "jump" & Christian says "how high" without question - That does not constitute a healthy balanced relationship
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kes
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Post by kes on Jun 22, 2009 18:31:26 GMT -5
Wow - talk about complete role reversal! I have mixed feelings about this episode It was a good episode and some things surprised me - Judith's reaction to Christian for one - it's not like her to be so "philosophical" about things - although it was nice to see that side of her. I have to be honest - I wasn't feeling much sympathy for Olli when Miriam walked out and he was looking with pleading eyes at Christian - because (for me) his remorse was not derived from the fact that he'd just fired Christian in the most brutal & machiavellian way, but rather, it was derived from a "OMG what am I gonna do now". I don't dispute the fact that pushing Christian out of NL will probably do him the world of good - maybe even to Olli's detriment in the long run as it will give Christian the impetus to be less "reliant" on Olli - but I really am quite disturbed at the way it was done. His justification for it is "for the good of the relationship" - but for me it really begs the question "when did Olli become the sole decision maker for them as a couple? I think (for me) this is what is irritating me about all of this. How easily did Christian " roll over & play dead" Don't get me wrong - I truly loved the way Christian stepped up to the mark in the end - these guys hug with such feeling - and it shows just how far Christian has matured and become a stronger person for it - but I can't help feeling that we've almost reached the point where Olli says "jump" & Christian says "how high" without question - That does not constitute a healthy balanced relationship Wow, Sheepiefarm! You just opened my eyes. I wasn't even thinking. I'm sure one could retort, "But Olli is acting as a businessman." However, he wasn't, nu? And Gregor has half interest in the business, too . . . I think it will be good for Christian to be out of NL because Olli will continue to flirt and Christian will continue to get jealous -- but that begs other questions. That Olli does like to flirt, and Christian is in part jealous because he senses this. To some degree, Olli is still in shopping mode. I don't mean he'll buy, but there is an "I'm available" sign one can hang over oneself for a while before fully committing to a relationship. (I did this for a while, so I know.) It can be subtle; one doesn't have to act on it, but it does give people a dangerous illusion of freedom, that can be all too easy to act on. And one's partner always knows, even if they won't admit it to themselves or you. So I have to admit, I didn't quite buy Judith's "You can always trust Olli." You've made me think . . . generally when my friends go into crazy jealousy mode it is because they are sensing something. They are overreacting (and therefore making themselves the problem, not the flirting, womanizing, manizing) -- and their overreaction is often a way for them to blame themselves or for the guilty partner to blame them. They become the issue. It becomes very convenient for a couple that is living the dynamic called, "One of us can't be trusted/flirts/cheats, the other is the crazy/overjealous, but in the end oh-such-a-martyr victim." (Neither role is blameless: but neither is healthy, either.) Didn't that happen on Friday? Christian's rage crossed a line, but Olli never really apoligized for his inappropriate behavior, did he? Did we hear anything from Olli about his part in all this? That does seem out of balance. The immaturity here on Christian's part is he wants to do right in the relationship, and so is making all the right moves, but doesn't realize that facing his fears in a thoughtful way may be the most loving thing he could do. That, however, takes time, and reflection. Encouragement from one's partner to do this is also important. (It's important that my partner and I encourage each other to be as honest as possible when we are having issues.) Rhia, I know you may hate this post, but Sheepiefarm really has me thinking. Now, none of this is "bad," just human, and more complicated than I was thinking before. The loving dynamic I envisioned is still there, but there are overtones, too, that live in the same space. But such is the complexity of real life, nu? I've lived this, I've seen it - nothing new, and in fact it makes for clever, interesting drama if the writing team "gets" it and explores it. On a sidenote: Olivia is angry at Olli now. Is she being set up to play a Iago in all this? I wouldn't mind an Olivia/Christian in the future, but not an Olivia convinces Christian Olli is cheating. Yuck! (Ivan -- this is speculation -- not based on any spoilers!
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Post by rhiannonhero on Jun 22, 2009 18:45:26 GMT -5
I dunno, sheepiefarm, I can't say that I feel the same way, and I went into this episode expecting to feel the way that you do. I have a 3.5 year old crawling over me at the moment, so I can't really say why in any dept that I can't agree with you on this after viewing what aired. I'll get back you later, perhaps, but I have a lot more empathy for Olli than you seem to have. I think it is because as a former entrepreneur, and a current employee in a family business, I see his point of view a bit differently than most. I don't think that whether or not Christian works at No Limits is, in fact, a relationship decision, but a business decision that is made for the sake of their relationship, which is a totally different thing. When it comes to No Limits, they are not partners, and yet the lines are blurred because of their relationship. It could have been handled a lot better, but I give Olli a lot of leeway for being a human being (character) who is really struggling to come into his own and not always doing it with grace. Lola has pointed out a few times that she doesn't think that the storyline given to Olli taking over the No Limits was sufficient because she doesn't think that Olli comes across like Charlie, where Schneiders is Charlie's baby and is an integral part of her. I don't actually feel like that would be appropriate for Olli at this point in time with regards to No Limits. I don't feel like it should feel comfortable or like it is "part of him" at all. A young entrepreneur doesn't come across with that vibe -- instead, they often feel a lot more edgy and even desperate because so much is riding on their success. I can't recall who said it, but someone compared Olli to Leonhard, and said that they didn't admire Olli's work in the bar as much as Leonhard's work as a doctor, but I think that's a bit short sighted. Every employer provides their employees with a livelihood, which means that Miriam can afford Uni, and Anna can buy food for her kids lunch boxes (making assumptions there for the point of example), and any other employee can meet their goals in life, and that is a heavy, heavy, heavy burden to bear. The success of No Limits isn't just about Olli, but about whether his employees will be able to live the lives they ultimately want to lead, too. So, I think it is completely understandable that Olli is coping with a lot less grace than a perfect creature might, but he's far from perfect, you know? He's a character with a lot of flaws, and one of them is a sense of having to be in control. Add the burdens of owning a business, having people depending on you in that way, and you've got a recipe for serious stress and deep fear. I think that the point made above that Olli has no one else in his life that he can depend on right now is a HUGELY important point, and one that I'm kind of embarrassed that I hadn't noticed and really thought about before. The poor guy! I mean, here he is taking on this massive endeavor and he's alone in this, except for Christian, and then the relationship is being massively hit because of issues stemming from the job situation, and Christian's actions with the important guest were profoundly troubling and inappropriate with regards to appropriate and professional behavior...I can imagine that Olli is seriously unable to be the perfect person we'd like to see him be. I feel deeply for him. Anyway, I feel like I'm wandering all over the map with this, and I have no idea if I've made a decent point or not. I've been interrupted a dozen times by a very charming 3.5 year old who is really quite hilarious, but that's another story.
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Post by jsg03jd on Jun 22, 2009 18:47:37 GMT -5
Olivia was soooooooooo helpful today, wasn't she? Mein Gott, cousin or not, I would have slapped Olivia. But her attitude and bitchiness are among the many reasons why she's one of those great love-to-hate characters!!!
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Post by rhiannonhero on Jun 22, 2009 18:52:06 GMT -5
I can't help feeling that we've almost reached the point where Olli says "jump" & Christian says "how high" without question [/size] - That does not constitute a healthy balanced relationship [/quote] I can't say that I think they are unbalanced. I think we saw today just how terrified Olli is of Christian's anger. I think that he was absolutely and completely terrified of the outcome of all of this. He didn't seem to me like he felt at all secure that Christian was still in the relationship at all. I got the impression that he was on the edge of a complete meltdown of terror about what was going on with them, and the only thing that rescued him from that was the immediacy of his responsibilities with regards to work. I think that Christian holds a lot of power in this relationship, and it stems directly from his anger/rages.
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Post by Flippityfloppityflip on Jun 22, 2009 18:59:00 GMT -5
Wow - talk about complete role reversal! I have mixed feelings about this episode It was a good episode and some things surprised me - Judith's reaction to Christian for one - it's not like her to be so "philosophical" about things - although it was nice to see that side of her. I have to be honest - I wasn't feeling much sympathy for Olli when Miriam walked out and he was looking with pleading eyes at Christian - because (for me) his remorse was not derived from the fact that he'd just fired Christian in the most brutal & machiavellian way, but rather, it was derived from a "OMG what am I gonna do now". I don't dispute the fact that pushing Christian out of NL will probably do him the world of good - maybe even to Olli's detriment in the long run as it will give Christian the impetus to be less "reliant" on Olli - but I really am quite disturbed at the way it was done. His justification for it is "for the good of the relationship" - but for me it really begs the question "when did Olli become the sole decision maker for them as a couple? I think (for me) this is what is irritating me about all of this. How easily did Christian " roll over & play dead" Don't get me wrong - I truly loved the way Christian stepped up to the mark in the end - these guys hug with such feeling - and it shows just how far Christian has matured and become a stronger person for it - but I can't help feeling that we've almost reached the point where Olli says "jump" & Christian says "how high" without question - That does not constitute a healthy balanced relationship I like your post Sheepiefarm. I must admit to shouting at the computer screen, that Olli had a damn cheek to look pleadingly at Christian to help him out after he had just fired him. At least Christian was man enough to walk out on Olli at that point! However, as I've said before I like the steelier Olli. However, rather than testing his new found confidence on Christian he should be taking a stand with Gregor. It seems that Gregor's preoccupation with the Princess and resultant indifference to No Limits has been the major cause of Olli's stress. I loved the hug at the end. That hug says it all. That no matter what, no matter how much they argue, no matter who is right or who is wrong, that what matters the most is that they absolutely adore each other.
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Post by rhiannonhero on Jun 22, 2009 19:01:48 GMT -5
Another thing that I think changes how I see these characters is that I've been in a relationship with the same individual for 20 years now. There are times when things get out of balance, yes, but eventually, if the love is there, things come back into alignment, and what might look like 3 years of it being all about me (or all about him), turns into something that balances out over 8 years time.
I suppose that while this interaction between Christian and Olli (and the few prior to it) could have, ideally been better handled in terms of execution, if not intent, I'm happier taking a longer look at their relationship and not just deciding, "This interaction wasn't super healthy in every way, therefore, they are no longer a healthy couple."
In general, there are times when putting aside what is fair for what is the most loving is the best thing that anyone can do for another person, and that's what Christian did here. I don't think it was about Olli saying "jump" and Christian saying "how high". I think it was about love being a lot bigger than that.
[ETA: I suppose other people might say, "And when is Olli going to behave in the same way," and I'll have to say that I think he does and he will, but this is Olli's selfish time, and I'm willing to let him have it...for now.]
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Post by sheepiefarm on Jun 22, 2009 19:18:21 GMT -5
I think that the point made above that Olli has no one else in his life that he can depend on right now is a HUGELY important point, Doesn't he? - his Aunt Charlie just gave him a huge amount of money to set him up in business. Surely if he feels that he can depend on Christian then he'd want him to be at his side. Could it not be the possibility that he doesn't want to hear what Christian has to say?
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kes
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Post by kes on Jun 22, 2009 19:21:13 GMT -5
I think that the point made above that Olli has no one else in his life that he can depend on right now is a HUGELY important point, Doesn't he? - his Aunt Charlie just gave him a huge amount of money to set him up in business. Surely if he feels that he can depend on Christian then he'd want him to be at his side. Could it not be the possibility that he doesn't want to hear what Christian has to say? I have to admit, Sheepiefarm, again you make a great point. Rhia, I love your sympathy for Olli -- and it has a truth to it. However, I think what Sheepiefarm is pointing out is equally true. That is how relationships are: complicated. And there is something strange going on in this dynamic -- I like what Sheepiefarm is saying here. (Though I love your observations, even when I don't agree. )
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Post by sheepiefarm on Jun 22, 2009 19:22:19 GMT -5
However, as I've said before I like the steelier Olli. However, rather than testing his new found confidence on Christian he should be taking a stand with Gregor. It seems that Gregor's preoccupation with the Princess and resultant indifference to No Limits has been the major cause of Olli's stress. I totally agree with this. It would seem that, rather than take a stand with Gregor, he's venting his frustration out on Christian. Having said that it could also be said that Christian could be doing more to pull Gregor into line with regard to NL.
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Post by rhiannonhero on Jun 22, 2009 19:43:14 GMT -5
Doesn't he? - his Aunt Charlie just gave him a huge amount of money to set him up in business. Not in a day to day way. You make a good point about how he'd want Christian at his side if he can depend on him. I think that his terror about Christian not being able to accept him as he is definitely plays a role in this. I don't think he's at all wanting Christian to jump when he says how high. I think he's protecting their relationship in a way that is complex and very sad for him, in that he's afraid that if Christian isn't seeing what he wants to see, then he's going to walk. It's Olli's deep insecurity coming out, I think. Regardless, I do see both sides of this very clearly. Normally, I sympathize a lot more with Christian, but today I'm really feeling poor Olli. He's just not a rock right now, he's really on the edge of something, and I think that Christian is acting just the way he should be.
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Post by austrianer on Jun 22, 2009 19:54:32 GMT -5
Lieber Ivan! Auch ich möchte Dir herzlichen Dank sagen,dass Du weiterhin die Videos für uns machst! Für mich sind sie eine grosse Bereicherung!Vor Allem wenn ich Folgen verpasse!Und Du bist doch unser Held - da wäre es nicht das Selbe, wenn sie von jemand Anderem kommen würden!Sicher gäbe es jemanden der Das könnte,aber.......!
Danke vielmals und sei gegrüsst von einem technischen Armleuchter!
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Post by sheepiefarm on Jun 22, 2009 20:10:10 GMT -5
Not in a day to day way. You make a good point about how he'd want Christian at his side if he can depend on him. I think that his terror about Christian not being able to accept him as he is definitely plays a role in this. It is the cornerstone of the way he is behaving right now but pushing Christian away is not really adressing that problem - in fact it will do the complete opposite. There has been a huge change in Christian's attitude and behaviour recently - highlighted beautifully in this episode where he came back to help Olli. However if Olli wants their relationship to have any longevity then he has to address his own insecurities - and if that means having to take a long hard look at himself - then that is the direction he should be looking at. Evicting Christian from thier place of work - and then claiming it's for the good of the relationship because that's an easier option than possibly addressing the fact maybe he could "tone down" his "flirting" is almost veering towards hypocrisy I think this is what bothers me slightly - why does he think he owns the rights to "protecting" the relationship. A good relationship is a two way street - if he had any respect for Christian then surely he would have talked it over with him first. I understand your comments about him "fearing" Christian's rage though! Maybe he'll have to learn to trust Christian more (at the moment what more can Christian do to prove that he loves him)
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kes
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Post by kes on Jun 22, 2009 20:26:17 GMT -5
This is an interesting discussion. I'll add a point here -- Olli has always seemed to me to be mischevious, Puckish character. It's one of the things I love about him. The way he maneuvers Coco in that Coco-Olli-Christian triangle (which turns into a kind of Olli-tortures-Coco-just-enough-so-she-can't-figure-out-he's-doing-it fest) is just delicious. This Puckish quality of Olli is what makes him such a great character. He's no Olivia, but I would never want him to be a saint. So, to some degree, I just would like the writers to allow Olli to be all that he is, for it's such good drama. In a way, I like his subtle mischeviousness better than Oliva's flagrant ways, and, dare I say it, his ways may be more dangerous. Olivia is awful, but in a pinch you can count on her to do right. Olli is wonderful, but in certain pinches, does he make the wise choices? The kind choices? Now I'm being evil, aren't I? (I'm exploring one way of thinking of Olli -- only one way. Chroust drew his character so well, that we can find any number of ways of seeing him -- including the beautiful way Rhia offers tonight. And the thing is they are all true. That is what I love about Olli. Rhia -- I think there is a bit of Scorpio in Olli -- that subtle danger. I'm a Scorpio, and I know it when I see it. I thought Christian was a Scorpio, but not a bit. But Olli? Maybe not Scorpio -- but Gemini? I'm not an expert on all the signs. There's just this lovely wicked part of him that likes to do mischief. There may even be a bit of the power-lust and lust-lust that infects Scorpios. I'd like to get your opinion, Rhia. If in any way Olli has some of the horrible, delicious qualities I suggest, how would that manifest in his chart?)
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Post by rhiannonhero on Jun 22, 2009 20:30:44 GMT -5
I simply have too much empathy for Olli right now to really have much more to say on the topic. I'm sure it will pass. Okay, I will say this, because I can't seem to think of a more direct way to say what I mean here. it is about the role of power in a relationship. Sometimes, from the outside, it will appear that one partner holds more power than another, because one partner gets his way more often, is more commanding/demanding, etc, and it just looks like the other is being walked all over. But that isn't always the case. My example: My grandmother always talks about how my deceased grandfather was deemed a huge pushover because he let her do whatever she wanted, whenever she wanted, however she wanted, and he let her tell him what to do most of the time, too. But, when it came down to it, he was in control -- because he was the one who decided if he was going to let her do that or not. She tells me, "Every once in awhile, something would come up, and it was hard to say what it was, and he'd put his foot down about it. He'd say, 'Okay, let's take a vote. Polls are open, I vote no, polls are closed.' And that was that. There was no use arguing with him. It was just over." In a relationship like this, there is a lot of power in being the person who gives and gives and allows and accepts, and then -- BANG. The foot is put down. So, I don't see Christian rolling over and playing dead here. I don't see him being weak at all. I see him as being very strong, and taking on the role of the person who is giving and accepting, but there was always the chance, and Olli was terrified of this possibility, that Christian was going to put his foot down. That this would be the Polls Opened/Polls Closed moment, and Christian was going to vote no on the whole relationship, or vote no on Olli, or vote no having respect or understanding for Olli anymore. That's a lot of power, especially to someone as insecure as Olli is. I've said it before and I'll say it again, Olli isn't insecure about Christian, imo, but he's insecure inside of himself in a deep way, and that makes him insecure about whether Christian will continue to love and care for him, against all odds, and in the face of whatever comes out of him. I don't think that Christian can do anything more than what he's doing and, yes, Olli will have to learn to trust Christian more over time. Right now, though, I imagine that he's just incredibly relieved that Christian still loves him. Poor Olli. I kind of want to bring him home and make him dinner and tuck him into bed. *pets him*
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kes
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Post by kes on Jun 22, 2009 20:35:38 GMT -5
Poor Olli. I kind of want to bring him home and make him dinner and tuck him into bed. *pets him* Aww! Shucks. That's just too sweet! I want to wrap Olli up, put a ribbon on him and send him your way. I love these discussions. Keep defending dear Olli -- I always get so much insight from your observations. (Now I'd better go exercise!!!)
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2009 20:41:11 GMT -5
so I just read it here sorry I've been catching up from the past three days I was gone. Ivan: Thank you for not quitting!! I know it means a lot to people. Vielen danke and you're my hero! Nanna & Tihkon: As always danke danke danke!
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Post by rhiannonhero on Jun 22, 2009 20:41:42 GMT -5
But Olli? Maybe not Scorpio -- but Gemini? I'm not an expert on all the signs. There's just this lovely wicked part of him that likes to do mischief. There may even be a bit of the power-lust and lust-lust that infects Scorpios. I'd like to get your opinion, Rhia. If in any way Olli has some of the horrible, delicious qualities I suggest, how would that manifest in his chart?) Hmm, I really don't get much Scorpio from Olli. He's not...hmm, watery enough. But I know that's probably a vague response. Maybe I'll feel my way back to the answer to this a bit as I go.... But, here's my take on Olli's Puckish quality -- that's absolutely an Aries thing, too, imo. Aries are very fun, flighty, selfish, and childish individuals. The mischievousness could come from the Aries, but I think the hint of wicked/secretive/deviousness comes from the Leo Ascendant. Leo loves secrets and loves to be the mystery. Leo loves to lure people in and then repulse them, or at least hold them back. Flirtation is hugely Aries and Leo, both, although the Leo is what would add the need for the flirtation to be less than on the up-and-up, meaning that Olli's need for deception (i.e. not mentioning that he's attached) is utterly Leo. The harsh, cutting to the quick, and making a straight and fast decision about what is "right", not just for him, but for everyone in the relationship (world), is definitely Virgo. Virgo, virgo, virgo. All the way. I think that he's got a Venus in Virgo for sure, and possibly Mercury in Virgo. Venus rules romance and relationships and would explain why he was almost "virginal" in his emotional status when he fell for Christian, while being very far from chaste in his body. It would also explain why he would be the "caretaker", or the one who takes on the role of decision maker for the relationship, and why he makes such certain and strong decisions with regards to it. Some might call it critical, harsh, or hurtful. He'd simply see it as "right". So, yeah, I don't really see much Scorpio in him, though I'd be willing to give him a Scorpio outer planet, like, Jupiter. But, wait, hmm...maybe Mars as an inner planet. That might explain why he's a nasty fighter. Hmm, here's a link to something about Mars in Scorpio -- I'm not totally sold, but I can see how it might be like him: www.astrologyweekly.com/learn-astrology/mars-in-scorpio.php
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Post by sheepiefarm on Jun 22, 2009 21:00:54 GMT -5
So, I don't see Christian rolling over and playing dead here. I don't see him being weak at all. I see him as being very strong, and taking on the role of the person who is giving and accepting, but there was always the chance, and Olli was terrified of this possibility, that Christian was going to put his foot down. That this would be the Polls Opened/Polls Closed moment, and Christian was going to vote no on the whole relationship, or vote no on Olli, or vote no having respect or understanding for Olli anymore. That's a lot of power, especially to someone as insecure as Olli is. I've said it before and I'll say it again, Olli isn't insecure about Christian, imo, but he's insecure inside of himself in a deep way, and that makes him insecure about whether Christian will continue to love and care for him, against all odds, and in the face of whatever comes out of him. I don't think that Christian can do anything more than what he's doing and, yes, Olli will have to learn to trust Christian more over time. Right now, though, I imagine that he's just incredibly relieved that Christian still loves him. Do you think Olli is unconsciously "testing" Christian? Looking at it from this scenario...... Christian has worked at NL for waaay longer than Olli (from even before he knew him). Now Olli has come along, got involved at NL and (in effect) made it his "Domain". Now he has gone even further and removed Christian from NL completely with the underlying message "if you really love me you'll do it"? Honestly - I'm not trying to "blacklist" Olli - it's just a thought
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Nitty
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Post by Nitty on Jun 22, 2009 21:10:18 GMT -5
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Post by rhiannonhero on Jun 22, 2009 21:51:44 GMT -5
Now he has gone even further and removed Christian from NL completely with the underlying message "if you really love me you'll do it"? Honestly - I'm not trying to "blacklist" Olli - it's just a thought I absolutely do not think that is what Olli is doing. It's just not within his character to do that, imo. Wow...that's just...so not how I see it. I really don't even know what to say to that. It's such a completely different avenue of motivation. I'm kind of like...wow. If I thought that of Olli, then I don't think I could even like him anymore. I think that Olli is absolutely doing the best he can with this situation. I...huh. I just don't even know how to address that right now.
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Post by brownsugar on Jun 22, 2009 22:48:14 GMT -5
I simply have too much empathy for Olli right now to really have much more to say on the topic. I'm sure it will pass. Okay, I will say this, because I can't seem to think of a more direct way to say what I mean here. it is about the role of power in a relationship. Sometimes, from the outside, it will appear that one partner holds more power than another, because one partner gets his way more often, is more commanding/demanding, etc, and it just looks like the other is being walked all over. But that isn't always the case. My example: My grandmother always talks about how my deceased grandfather was deemed a huge pushover because he let her do whatever she wanted, whenever she wanted, however she wanted, and he let her tell him what to do most of the time, too. But, when it came down to it, he was in control -- because he was the one who decided if he was going to let her do that or not. She tells me, "Every once in awhile, something would come up, and it was hard to say what it was, and he'd put his foot down about it. He'd say, 'Okay, let's take a vote. Polls are open, I vote no, polls are closed.' And that was that. There was no use arguing with him. It was just over." In a relationship like this, there is a lot of power in being the person who gives and gives and allows and accepts, and then -- BANG. The foot is put down. So, I don't see Christian rolling over and playing dead here. I don't see him being weak at all. I see him as being very strong, and taking on the role of the person who is giving and accepting, but there was always the chance, and Olli was terrified of this possibility, that Christian was going to put his foot down. That this would be the Polls Opened/Polls Closed moment, and Christian was going to vote no on the whole relationship, or vote no on Olli, or vote no having respect or understanding for Olli anymore. That's a lot of power, especially to someone as insecure as Olli is. I've said it before and I'll say it again, Olli isn't insecure about Christian, imo, but he's insecure inside of himself in a deep way, and that makes him insecure about whether Christian will continue to love and care for him, against all odds, and in the face of whatever comes out of him. I don't think that Christian can do anything more than what he's doing and, yes, Olli will have to learn to trust Christian more over time. Right now, though, I imagine that he's just incredibly relieved that Christian still loves him. Poor Olli. I kind of want to bring him home and make him dinner and tuck him into bed. *pets him* Wow!! what an episode. It's amazing how the writers as well as Jo and Thore are able to convey so much about these characters feelings that it can sway one's opinion of them from one day to the next. Yesterday I posted about how I thought Olli was growing in his arrogance since owning NL, especially the way he told Christian he was fired. I do wish that Olli had not fired Christian the way he did on the beach, especially after they had such a nice time together. This was a huge decision and should have been discussed at lenght with Christian. But after viewing this episode my heart went out to Olli. In fact, for both of them, because both of them are right, and both of them are wrong in their own way. But one thing which is always static...their deep and profound love for each other. Rhiannohero...I have read your comments on this thread and found so much to agree with you about, especially after seeing today's episode. Olli was literally petrified that Christian was going to walk out on him. He was so afraid that this time he had gone too far in firing him and Christian was through. But he underestimated his boyfriend. You see, Christian really is the strong and secure one. He maybe hot headed at times, and his jealously, although I believe were well founded regarding Olli's flirtatious behavior, which would be difficult for anyone to take. But he listened to what Judith have to say... who talked reason to him. And what Judith had to say was really important, because it opened up his eyes to the fact that Olli really is crazy over him, and that there is no fear that Olli will drift. So maybe Judith helped tip things a little and triggered Christian to emphasize somewhat regarding Olli's point of view. And Olli really did fear Christian didn't understand where he was coming from, as he noted to Sarah...that he wished Christian could see his point of view. So Judith was an important contributer in calming the situation. But I love what you say about Olli. I admit to having a soft spot for him. He's just such a lovely person, so it has been disturbing for me...see, I take these characters way to seriously...but it has been disheartening to see Olli treat Christian the way he did at the beach. Now, I do think that one of the main culprits in all this is Christian's brother...Gregor. He has been a complete failure. Taken full advantage of Olli who has been under immense stress. Gregor is the worst kind of partner any business person could have. I really hope that Olli or Christian will call his ass out on this very soon. Because it can't continue or poor Olli will have a melt down under the pressure. But I loved this episode. And although not much may have been solved, I do hope in future episodes Olli will clearly explain to Christian why he chose to fire him, and they both will discuss their insecurities regarding the relationship in a more calm and reasonable manner. But when Christian showed up behind that counter, looked at his beautiful Olli and told him with genuine love how he couldn't let him down, there was a lump in my throat. And when Christian drew Olli near and hugged him with such deep passion...I teared. You see Christian, no matter how hurt he was feeling at that time for being fired by his love just couldn't see Olli suffer. I think Christian cannot stand to see Olli suffer. So where others may see him as a doormat or the weaker of the two in the realationship...he isn't at all. When after arguements we see Christian coming back to make up as in episode 6/04, 6/19 and todays episode 6/22. He did it not because he is soft or Olli has control, but because he cannot stand to see Olli hurt. It kills Christian to feel that Olli is unhappy. And that I don't view as a weakness, but a mature and strong person who loves with all his heart. And that makes Christian on hell of a beautiful person. Jo and Thore are just amazing. I can't remember ever watching a couple who had such chemistry as do these two actors. Which has made this one of the most amazing love stories I've ever seen.
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Post by brownsugar on Jun 22, 2009 22:55:44 GMT -5
Ivan..I just want to say thank you so much for your hard work with the postings of Ollian's story on VL.
Although I do not understand much German, but it is wonderful to be able to go to your channel, after giving into weakness while waiting for Nanna's subs, and have the opportunity to watch the episode. I am so very grateful to you for this opportunity.
Gosh...i'm so very pleased you decided to disable your comment section and continue to post the episodes. You have no idea how many people you have made very happy today.
Again...thanks to you, nanna, Tihkon and dutchy for your dedication.
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