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Post by Bonobochick on Sept 18, 2008 13:55:22 GMT -5
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Post by psionycx on Sept 18, 2008 14:34:17 GMT -5
I really don't think that Christian breaking down and crying would really fit with how they have played the storyline so far. Particularly since they didn't set it up the typical soap way with the couple being shown particularly romantic or happy or planning something right before disaster hits. I mean, we might get some, but I wouldn't be surprised or upset if we didn't get it. Flailing? Sure. Angsting? Sure. But full on breaking down and crying? I would be very surprised. I would expect anxiety and frustration giving way to anger. Christian doesn't strike me as someone who would cry, at least not in public. He's more like to be agitated and upset before developing a rage. Were Olli to die (God forbid!) Christian would probably cry alone in his room or out in the woods somewhere, but he would go to some lengths not to do so in front of anybody. Right now I expect his main reaction to be worry. It's not clear what's wrong with Olli yet and he hasn't had a chance to process what just happened.
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Post by evilgeniuslady on Sept 18, 2008 14:47:23 GMT -5
Christian is the king of sublimation sometimes - he's not called Mr. Never Freaks Out for nothing. If Olli is actually seriously ill I'll expect Christian to channel his grief and frustration into action, rather than break down crying. Maybe he'll go punch a punching bag and yell at people around him, including Gregor and Judith - whatever it takes to stop him from feeling helpless and sorry for himself.
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bg26
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Post by bg26 on Sept 18, 2008 14:51:34 GMT -5
I would find it rather shocking not to see some very strong emotional reaction, some kind of breakdown from Christian if Olli's life would be in danger. I mean, he's his boyfriend, the love of his life (well, at the moment), his number one dream as he said so himself. If Christian realizes that Olli could die (yes DIE, as in losing somebody forever) and he wouldn't be crying, then that would actually not be realistic to me. I'm not saying he should be crying histerically, but the least one would expect, is for him to be an emotional wreck and shedding some tears. This has nothing to do with being romantic or behaving as the happy couple, it has everything to do with possibly losing the love of your life. Who wouldn't cry?
We'll see what happens in the coming days, but I do hope that Christian shows he is only human as well, with emotions like everyone. It is ok to have a breakdown, it is ok to have an emotional crisis and crying, instead of yelling or shouting.
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Post by aussie54 on Sept 18, 2008 14:55:20 GMT -5
Thank you, Ivan. Great screencaps today, as usual. There's been some discussion about Christian's reaction to Olli's dizziness, and to Thore's acting. I did notice him pulling away from Olli's kiss when they were in the bathroom. Any thoughts here?
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Post by crazylilly on Sept 18, 2008 15:07:29 GMT -5
There's been some discussion about Christian's reaction to Olli's dizziness, and to Thore's acting. I did notice him pulling away from Olli's kiss when they were in the bathroom. Any thoughts here? My guess? They wanted to stress the fact that Christian's mind was totally on Axel and how to find a way to make him "pay" for what he did. His mind was elsewhere - but not really on Olli. Otherwise he would have been much more conserned. But Christian wasn't really conserned. Sure, he ask Olli to rest. But he didn't make him go to the hospital or at least a doctor. He didn't really question the answers Olli gave him.
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Post by lolaruns on Sept 18, 2008 15:09:15 GMT -5
Sorry, this should probably have gone in here.
Maybe we could make a betting pool, my money is on:
- Moist eyes - Voice breaking - Clutching Olli's hand - Freaking (because we all know that Christian never freaks out ;D)
I wouldn't mind a breakdown. I'll gladly be proven wrong on this issue. But to me the last few episodes haven't really stressed the love of my life angle, so I'd be surprised if it played out like that just from a pure storyline pacing POV (again, not that I mind; and after all I'm very, very frequently wrong with my predictions anyway; VL writers are particularly good about going against my expectations).
Soaps usually live on the whole build up and crescendo thing and to me so far it just hasn't felt like that is what they are after. Like I said, the usually MO for this is to spend at least several days showing the couple unusually romantic and unusually a lot, ideally to show them making plans together and emphasizing their love so you can have maximum contrast and get a real feel of what the characters might lose. That hasn't been present so far in the Ollian storyline in their recent scenes which have been more about normal life. No emotional foreshadowing (even if they foreshadowed Olli's breakdown with all the references to headaches).
My guess is that Chritian is going to blame himself for not making Olli go to the doctor. But even that has not been stressed enough by the show for my liking (like us seeing Christian be really inconsiderate so we again truly see that he has things to feel sorry about).
[Of course it's possible that Thore's illness/absence messed up the plans a bit in that regard. Still based on the way the story has played out so far I would be surprised if that was their focus. Even the focus on this episode was more on the Axel/newspaper conflict]
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Thore, I dunno. Could be he is not very fond of the storyline? (and to me, the writing in the whole boxing/Axel storyline has been pretty clumsy. )
To tell the truth there are a bunch of episodes where he doesn't feel as "on" as he could be. I'm wondering if it has to do with the storyline because one exception to me was for example the storyline around Olivia's blackmail where Olli confided in Christian what Olivia had done and they talked about whether they should turn her in.
Of course my other theory is that it's just Christian's personality. That the same thing that happened with Coco is happening with Olli too, that as the relationship goes on longer the intensity just decreases and the relationship becomes a commodity (is that the right word here?).
I dunno, to me the Christian&Coco examples sort of looms in the background to me because couples not getting a lot of affection with each other as the main plot and then disappearing more and more into the background/supporting other stories can be a way for writers to build up a breakup. Make the viewers more indifferent to the couple beause of the lack of sweet scenes and then nobody will object if they start having conflict and breaking up over things like "Our schedules are so busy, we never see each other". You know, a certain "Out of sight, out of mind" approach.
And I think I have trailed hopelessly off topic.
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Back to the episode. I am curious whether this will get Christian to talk in some way. Whether we get any great ILY or whether Christian will talk to Olli or to Gregor about what Olli means to him. To me that would count at least as much as an emotional breakdown.
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bg26
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Post by bg26 on Sept 18, 2008 15:14:08 GMT -5
Thank you, Ivan. There's been some discussion about Christian's reaction to Olli's dizziness, and to Thore's acting. I did notice him pulling away from Olli's kiss when they were in the bathroom. Any thoughts here? I didn't see it as pulling away from Olli's kiss. He was more or less offering his cheek a bit I thought.
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Post by mona on Sept 18, 2008 15:20:01 GMT -5
He wasn't thinking the worst and who would do that? Especially when Olli is telling him it's okay and he used to have migraine. I loved the bathroom scene (I was surprised he didn't just walk away without noticing anything because he was concentraded on Axel). Olli is supposed to be the mature one. Christian could have thought if Olli was having something serious he would go the doctor or at least tell him about his blackouts we saw with lights. So, he believed him. People has headaches all the time. But I think he did sense something and that's why he wanted Olli in bed. Christian so caring to Olli was loveable. It was also nice that he tried to talk to Axels buddy (I couldn't stop laughing when Alex didn't remember the word and asked his friend).
And for the kisses, I really don't think they have a choice there.
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dutchy
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Post by dutchy on Sept 18, 2008 15:20:16 GMT -5
I just responded in the general thread but I might as well bring it over to this specific thread… I would find it rather shocking not to see some very strong emotional reaction, some kind of breakdown from Christian if Olli's life would be in danger. I mean, he's his boyfriend, the love of his life (well, at the moment), his number one dream as he said so himself. If Christian realizes that Olli could die (yes DIE, as in losing somebody forever) and he wouldn't be crying, then that would actually not be realistic to me. I'm not saying he should be crying histerically, but the least one would expect, is for him to be an emotional wreck and shedding some tears. This has nothing to do with being romantic or behaving as the happy couple, it has everything to do with possibly losing the love of your life. Who wouldn't cry? I think plenty of people wouldn’t cry, actually. I’ve been around quite a few people in very distressing situations who simply didn’t cry or fall apart during the first few hours, days, even weeks, after being hit by a major drama/tragedy (loosing a loved one in a car accident, loosing a baby in a miscarriage, being the victim of a rape/assault, situations like that). So, I wouldn’t find it strange at all if Christian doesn’t have a breakdown in tomorrow’s episode. It would be interesting to see Thore do another breakdown scene though (we already saw a short breakdown scene after their first time, of course). Although anger, freaking out and feeling guilty seem more fitting in Christian’s case.
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Post by lolaruns on Sept 18, 2008 15:26:49 GMT -5
I would lie if I claimed I had never seen any awkward moments (for example I complained at bit in the AE post way back that the whole couch smothering scene came off as a bit odd to me in some moments). But I tend to see them with all couples (for example I thought that the acting in the scene where Roman tells Deniz about Bulle being out was just weird? Like both were trying to be dramatic but didn't quite find the connection with each other; but that's just how it looks to my eyes).
Based on how Jo described the little touches they have added in the past I guess they could have done a bit more (I did notice that Christian had Olli sort of at arms lenght in the scene in the bathroom in the beginning; mostly because I was staring at Thore's arms ;D In this scene maybe a bit more huggy approach would have fit, putting his arm around Olli in way that is affection rather than just practical). But regardless of how much they added or didn't add, in the end, the script didn't really hand them any deliberate scenes for romance. Where the romance is actually written down in the script and time is reserved for it.
Christian being a bit buttoned up has been a thing that has been going on for a while (I remember a lot of people expected a bit bigger emotional deal out of the aftermath of the bashing). I was actually talking about this in regards to the Christian/Judith friendship recently. Before they actually had some serious conversations. Christian had some things he wanted to open up about and in turn was more willing to listen to Judith's drama. At the moment it seems that he doesn't have any feelings he feels like sharing with anybody and as a result also has less interest in putting up with Judith's drama. It's not a big change like Christian turning from emotional to asshole, but during the time when he and Olli first got together Christian was probably feeling a bit unbalanced and was more vulnerable. This chapter seems to be a bit "closed" by now that he is secure in his relationship, hence him feeling less need to be emotional and share his emotions.
ETA: I do think that the story has been lacking "killer" moments lately. Stuff that makes me go "Wow, what a great moment, I'll remember that forever". Which is sad because early Ollian was filled with such hitting it out of the ballpark moments. But IMO the slightly clumsy writing is more to blame for that and the reason why a lot of moments have just been ok or good or nice rather than truly forever memorable. The script had many situations where such moments could have been inserted but they just didn't do much with it.
I hope that will change and not be like the direct aftermath of the bashing. Which was nice enough but just not out of this world awesome memorable and great and taking my breath away.
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sozment
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Forget regret or life is yours to miss
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Post by sozment on Sept 18, 2008 15:38:21 GMT -5
Has there been any big changes in the directors (do they keep the same or change daily/weekly). I know in QAF, they changed often. That could be a problem if you have a different director directing the actors a different way.
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Post by lolaruns on Sept 18, 2008 15:44:00 GMT -5
Has there been any big changes in the directors (do they keep the same or change daily/weekly). I know in QAF, they changed often. That could be a problem if you have a different director directing the actors a different way. I assume they have a team of directors who rotate. It's possible that some new ones join and some old ones leave. Somebody on this board here mentioned once that they had been keeping track of who wrote and directed what. I wish I could remember their name. Anyway, I don't think we can put it all on the director. Like I said, Christian being less emotional for example after the bashing can't just be chalked up to the directing and acting. If certain lines aren't there then they aren't there. And Jo himself has talked about the little touches they add. I doubt that any director would go and forbid them from doing that. Also, it's not like the other couples haven't had romantic scenes together (like Ansgarlie on the couch in the garden or Judith and Constantin's food fight or Grebecca).
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dutchy
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Post by dutchy on Sept 18, 2008 15:47:13 GMT -5
Has there been any big changes in the directors (do they keep the same or change daily/weekly). I know in QAF, they changed often. That could be a problem if you have a different director directing the actors a different way. For as far as I know they have many different directors who all take turns in directing for one entire week in a row. So, there’s another director in charge next week.
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Post by lolaruns on Sept 18, 2008 15:54:45 GMT -5
And now on something completely different, I loved Christian making a little dig at Olivia. I don't know why, but I really like Christian not liking her. I love Olivia but it's just fun. ;D ETA: I looked at the comments on Ivan's vid and people there too are discussing whether or not Christian is emotional/affectionate/concerned enough.
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Post by ivaniv on Sept 18, 2008 16:39:40 GMT -5
I think you could just tell from the scene in the bathroom how much he was excited that there's a chance to get Axel, so he was distracted and did not realise it may be serious with Olli, who kept saying that everything is alright. It was just a coincidence, he would have noticed sooner otherwise, I think.
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Post by mona on Sept 18, 2008 16:45:33 GMT -5
He was kinda distracted with Ollis first problem (Axel), I thought that,too. It's cute that Christian is more at Ollis work place now. Good thing Olli didn't stay in bed though. It could have seemed like he is sleeping maybe. Watching it again I noticed how Christian is touching Olli the entire time in the bathroom scene when he sees that Olli is ill.
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Post by sheepiefarm on Sept 18, 2008 16:59:11 GMT -5
I'm kinda hoping that Christian will actually tell Olli that he loves him a t some point during the hospital scenes.
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dutchy
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Post by dutchy on Sept 18, 2008 17:32:44 GMT -5
I’ll repeat what I just said on the general thread… I'm kinda hoping that Christian will actually tell Olli that he loves him a t some point during the hospital scenes. Oh, me too! Me too! I’d like to hear Christian say those three special words to Olli just once and without Olli saying them first.
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Post by viga2430 on Sept 18, 2008 17:37:28 GMT -5
Thank you Ivan I'm kinda hoping that Christian will actually tell Olli that he loves him a t some point during the hospital scenes. I am also hoping that Christian will finally say "I love you" to Olli with the moist eyes and cracked (fear in his ) voice. IMO he will let that tiny wall around his heart go by saying those words and that is more significant to me than an emotional Christian. I guess we have to wait and see what happens in the next couple of days. As for the whole kissing on the cheek bit IMO it seemed that Christian turned towards Olli for the kiss on the cheek then pulled away when it was over.
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dutchy
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Post by dutchy on Sept 18, 2008 18:39:41 GMT -5
I think you could just tell from the scene in the bathroom how much he was excited that there's a chance to get Axel, so he was distracted and did not realise it may be serious with Olli, who kept saying that everything is alright. It was just a coincidence, he would have noticed sooner otherwise, I think. I think you’re right. How could Christian have known how badly Olli was feeling when Olli kept insisting that it was nothing serious? Christian was concerned and told Olli to go see a doctor, Olli said it was just a migraine. Christian told Olli to go to bed, Olli went to work instead. Christian was annoyed/worried when he found Olli at Schneiders’, Olli still insisted that he was “top fit”. I really don’t see what else you could expect from Christian when Olli insists that he’s fine and he ignores Christian’s concern and advice. I was actually pleasantly surprised to see how attentive and concerned Christian was for Olli… Christian’s behaviour was the total opposite of what the spoilers implied it would be! Phew!!
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Post by tihkon2 on Sept 18, 2008 20:15:06 GMT -5
Here is the English Subtitled version of today's exciting episode. ;D Danke Nanna und Ivan!
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sozment
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Forget regret or life is yours to miss
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Post by sozment on Sept 18, 2008 20:21:15 GMT -5
Thank you Nanna, Ivan and Tihkon2! ;D You guys are my heroes.
But now, I've watched it several times and my heart has stopped...oh, I don't know how many times. I hear Jo's head hit the back of the wall in the bathroom.. LOL. and then the hit on the floor...ummm bruises anyone?
But what a great job he did. I love all of the actors work today. I saw absolutely no problems with anyone. Someone mentioned that Thore was holding him strangely..(that may have been in the blog)...I only noticed he was trying to "hold him up".
I thought they all did excellent with special kudos to Jo.
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Post by brownsugar on Sept 18, 2008 21:25:28 GMT -5
First...thank you Nanna, Ivan and Tihkon2. Very much appreciated
Today's episode was superb! Jo Weil is an excellent actor. He nailed all his scenes brilliantly with realism and depth. Thore also did a good job.
I could hardly breath watching this episode. From the beginning when they first showed Olli's dizziness and blurred vision, the entire episode seem to then have this dark cloud and pending feeling of doom and gloom about it. I can't wait for the next episode to see how things play out.
I've watched the clip several times to see where some people have commented that Christian seemed a little distance. I personally didn't see it, but it was rumored that Thore did have a cold which is why he was off for a few episodes. Plus, when you watch the last couple of episodes, you can hear he sounds as though he still had the cold. Maybe that's why he turned for Jo to kiss him on the cheek instead of the lips to avoid spreading his cold to Jo.
Regarding how Christian will react...I think he will have a very sad affect, watery eyes, feelings of guilt and responsibility for Olli's predicament. I don't think we will get a breakdown with floods of tears, weeping and wailing so to speak. That's not Christian's nature. What I do hope, like others, is that he says to Olli those magic three words...I Love You...because even though Christians a fairly stoic person when it comes to showing emotion, you just know that Olli is like part of his Soul. He lives and breath's him at the moment. And if he were to loose Olli, it would destroy him.
I don't find it unusual not to show floods of tears or huge emotion when faced with a crises since that's exactly the kind of person I am. I hardly ever shed a tear or show deep emotion when faced with tragic situations. It doesn't mean I don't care or it doesn't hurts, I just don't have it on display. I think Christian maybe like this...he keeps his emotions well bottled. We only saw him cry once...after he had slept with Olli for the first time.
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Post by timmiitippii on Sept 18, 2008 21:40:46 GMT -5
Thank you everyone involved in editing and subbing the episode, much appreciated =] I felt sick in my stomach every time they played that music when Ollie was seeing things blurry. and i also just read sum1's comment on youtube and i have to say i kinda agree with wat he/she said. The reason Christian wasn't that into that kiss is probably or at least should be intentional. He obviously was aware sumthing wasn't right with Ollie and insisted Ollie to rest, but he could tell that Ollie wasn't going to do what he was told. And i believe he pulled out of that kiss because he knows that Ollie is just trying to "sweet-kiss" his way out of Christian worrying. I realli enjoyed this episode and the actors all performed very well imo. *urgh even axel was pretty good with his dumb thug character. Oh and sum1 mentioned b4 Kai looks a lot like Gregor.. I have to say he looks more like leonhard. Can't wait for tomorrow ><
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